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Post by Mark on Sept 2, 2022 17:42:10 GMT
I am puzzled by the proposition that a single parent mum is better off with State support than with a husband/partner building a family together. There is an implication in this view that all absent fathers are, ipso facto , better placed away from her and the children because they will abuse her/them. I find that view of men-even in a culture where father absenteeism is high a bit disturbing. Reduced to a role of sperm donor. I think you are conflating two different thngs here. The first being absent fathers. This can happen for any number of reasons (I have a friend whose father died when he was a baby to give just one example), but, usually means men who head for the door when they learn that their partner is pregnant. Some of these, had they stayed, might make perfectly good fathers/partners. Abusive partners is a whole different ball game. The vast, vast majority of children would 100% be better off out of that and brought up by one parent. |
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Post by Mark on Sept 2, 2022 17:44:56 GMT
I don't know about satire dying, but this thread more or less has. Somebody please lay the cyber wreath on it quickly and put the half a dozen wretches still reading any of it out of their prolonged misery. Then let's start a new one based on that People Polling poll. New polling thread tomorrow evening. I want to start it just in advance of a new PM. Hopefully a new poll by then, but, I'll use the People Polling one if not. |
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Post by jib on Sept 2, 2022 17:46:50 GMT
jib If you have no objection to freedom of movement ,why did you vote to end it? Immigration policy is under the control of the U.K. government just as it was as a member so if it's " unlimited " which it never was that's something to address to those who set the policy not by leaving an organisation that doesn't. As I understand it you objected to agricultural policy and fishing policies, apart from the blindingly obvious that these accounted for less than 5% of the benefits of membership it's also blindingly obvious at least to farmers and the fishing industry now that they were significantly better off in the European union. I won't address your other comment as it relates to something that only existed inside your own head. I've said this before, I've only ever met really nice people from the EU. I suppose my vote in the EU referendum was essentially anti-Federalist and anti- Westminster establishment. I'm certainly not Mr Brexit waving Unionist flags about. 2016 was a wonderful chance to kick Cameron (and by association his sidekicks Osborne and Clegg) where it hurt. I've merely observed the consequential duplicity and anti-democratic shenanigans and offered snippets. If it eventually destroys the Westminster and London centric Neo-Lib establishment (and the Tory party in particular) then all the better. |
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Post by jayblanc on Sept 2, 2022 17:53:42 GMT
Just in from the beaches of Bournemouth and Aberavon in mind and body. Is that new poll from @people's polling' with a 17 point lead for 60th birthday boy Starmer an outlier/voodoo poll? In line with those council by election results. COLIN, Hello to you. Frank Field always argued that 'The left' neglected traditional family fidelity, with great detriment to the poor. Mind you, he later admitted that his Child Poverty Action Group report's attack on Wilson Government's record was deeply flawed (1964-1970) and in fact that government did a great deal to help Labour's people. Kinnock's 1985 speech in Bournemouth (was David Atkinson) alluded to 'all the chances' afforded to his generation.....leading Eric to walk off the platform, but Foot and Castle applauded enthusiastically at the back of the Hall. As Max Boyce used to say: I was there, I am puzzled by the proposition that a single parent mum is better off with State support than with a husband/partner building a family together. There is an implication in this view that all absent fathers are, ipso facto , better placed away from her and the children because they will abuse her/them. I find that view of men-even in a culture where father absenteeism is high a bit disturbing. Reduced to a role of sperm donor. And I'm not sure that it is a question of "neglect" in LOC thinking. It seems to be a positive opinion about single mums and absent fathers and part of LOC notions of the Family. But there we are-its nothing new and the Family Report for the Child Commissioner will probably just gather dust. I think that Badenoch commissioned the study, so maybe if she gets Education it will rear its head in Parliament. The same old knockabout will then ensue presumable.......assuming the Tories have time to discuss anything other than Energy costs and a nation in penury. ! Don't know why jimjam is worrying about economic competence ratings.  The logical end point of a policy that "keeping parents together" is better than State support for single parents, is that you end up with families made up of people who do not want to be together and resent having to be together. And it raises the risk of stigmatising single parents as failures and not appropriate people to be bringing up children. And that ends up with Magdalene Laundries. And that ends up with small unmarked graves. |
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Post by alec on Sept 2, 2022 18:12:30 GMT
domjg - "This thread has broken some kind of record in duration" Sadly, no. Commencing on 13th May 2022, there is some way to go before topping the penultimate thread on UKPR, which was commissioned on 4th May 2021 and ended on November 18th of that year with the 20,003rd and last post, posted by @james E and which has rightly come to be regarded as a classic notable post by UKPR historians, replete with humour and irony while remaining, as all the best posts are, completely devoid of meaning. For those sad members who don't know their UKPR history, I have reproduced the post in full below, from the Alec Archive. _______ www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ELpKjtqOY;-) November 18th, 2021 at 8:02 pm
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Post by alec on Sept 2, 2022 18:22:23 GMT
Russia announces the indefinite switching off of the Nordstream1 pipeline, because of a little oil leak on one of the control panels. They are even struggling to lie competently.
EU gas storage now in excess of 80% full, but notable that today saw just a 0.19% increase, the lowest rate of acquisition I can recall seeing since flows turned positive in March.
Not sure what this means, although it is notable that earlier in the week, after the 'temporary' shutdown, Europe managed to add 0.4% in a day, so maybe this was just a blip. I suspect Putin has started to worry about the recent falls in gas prices created by the EU's huge efforts at storage and efficiency, and is using Nordstream to attempt to manipulate prices.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 18:27:43 GMT
Crofty: " That seems unnecessarily offensive given that I simply corrected your comment that I had made about colin."I don't understand that sentence. You corrected my comment that you'd made about Colin? Nope, don't get it. Re the 1950s discussion, I made a light-hearted quip about old male white right-wingers yearning for the good old days when Irish, blacks and women knew their place. You decided that was an attack by me on Colin and took it upon yourself to admonish me (hence 'po-faced moralising'). I disabused you of that notion and, when you queried why I might think you were being ironical, I pointed out that your style of posting can make it hard to work out when you're being ironic. OK? Not really. I didn’t “decide” anything, just said I hoped your comment wasn’t aimed at Colin (as it followed on from an exchange on that topic that he had with lululemonmustdobetter - nothing more than that. All the subsequent stuff is down to you. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 18:32:23 GMT
Crofty: " That seems unnecessarily offensive given that I simply corrected your comment that I had made about colin."I don't understand that sentence. You corrected my comment that you'd made about Colin? Nope, don't get it. Re the 1950s discussion, I made a light-hearted quip about old male white right-wingers yearning for the good old days when Irish, blacks and women knew their place. You decided that was an attack by me on Colin and took it upon yourself to admonish me (hence 'po-faced moralising'). I disabused you of that notion and, when you queried why I might think you were being ironical, I pointed out that your style of posting can make it hard to work out when you're being ironic. OK? Not really. I didn’t “decide” anything, just said I hoped your comment wasn’t aimed at Colin (as it followed on from an exchange on that topic that he had with lululemonmustdobetter - nothing more than that. All the subsequent stuff is down to you. “You’re developing form on this,” Crofty |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 18:51:37 GMT
Russia announces the indefinite switching off of the Nordstream1 pipeline, because of a little oil leak on one of the control panels. They are even struggling to lie competently. EU gas storage now in excess of 80% full, but notable that today saw just a 0.19% increase, the lowest rate of acquisition I can recall seeing since flows turned positive in March. Not sure what this means, although it is notable that earlier in the week, after the 'temporary' shutdown, Europe managed to add 0.4% in a day, so maybe this was just a blip. I suspect Putin has started to worry about the recent falls in gas prices created by the EU's huge efforts at storage and efficiency, and is using Nordstream to attempt to manipulate prices. Always thought it was odd that Germany were so open about their storage growth. Would Russia simply know anyway? |
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Post by hireton on Sept 2, 2022 18:55:33 GMT
Taxpayers have stumped up the £129,700 cost for the legal "opinion" commissioned by Johnson to try and derail the Privileges Committee inquiry into whether he misled Parliament:
David Allan Green is not impressed:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 19:05:28 GMT
I am puzzled by the proposition that a single parent mum is better off with State support than with a husband/partner building a family together. There is an implication in this view that all absent fathers are, ipso facto , better placed away from her and the children because they will abuse her/them. I find that view of men-even in a culture where father absenteeism is high a bit disturbing. Reduced to a role of sperm donor. I think you are conflating two different thngs here. The first being absent fathers. This can happen for any number of reasons (I have a friend whose father died when he was a baby to give just one example), but, usually means men who head for the door when they learn that their partner is pregnant. Some of these, had they stayed, might make perfectly good fathers/partners. Abusive partners is a whole different ball game. The vast, vast majority of children would 100% be better off out of that and brought up by one parent. No-I'm not. If you read the complete exchange you will see that someone else introduced an example of a abusive father as a reason for a preferable single parent family. A non-sequitur of course. It goes without saying that a child is "better off out of that and brought up by one parent." Who would suggest otherwise? But if a culture in which perfectly decent young men tend to "head for the door" as you put it, could be shifted to persuade young fathers that accepting their responsibility can be good for their children and them -wouldn't that be a worthy objective ? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 19:10:49 GMT
Heard on R4 today that Truss said that the way to bring gas prices down was to help Ukraine "win the war".
I think that is completely wrong. Surely , if Putin loses ( whatever that means) , the last thing he is going to do is start pumping gas to Europe again.?
Indeed one can imagine that if he won-and Ukraine collapsed -he might be relaxed enough to start trying to rebuild economic ties.
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Post by domjg on Sept 2, 2022 19:14:24 GMT
I think you are conflating two different thngs here. The first being absent fathers. This can happen for any number of reasons (I have a friend whose father died when he was a baby to give just one example), but, usually means men who head for the door when they learn that their partner is pregnant. Some of these, had they stayed, might make perfectly good fathers/partners. Abusive partners is a whole different ball game. The vast, vast majority of children would 100% be better off out of that and brought up by one parent. No-I'm not. If you read the complete exchange you will see that someone else introduced an example of a abusive father as a reason for a preferable single parent family. A non-sequitur of course. It goes without saying that a child is "better off out of that and brought up by one parent." Who would suggest otherwise? But if a culture in which perfectly decent young men tend to "head for the door" as you put it, could be shifted to persuade young fathers that accepting their responsibility can be good for their children and them -wouldn't that be a worthy objective ? If anything my admittedly somewhat middle class parenting experience is that fathers these days are expected and want and expect of themselves to be far more involved and invested in child raising than would have usual when I was a child in the eighties. (I’ve myself just completed two days taken off work solely for child care to allow my other half to focus on work). |
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Post by jayblanc on Sept 2, 2022 19:17:50 GMT
David Allan Green is not impressed: Somewhat in the same line of things as the No.10 report that Cressida Dick wasn't given 'due process', by claiming that the Mayor should have followed 'statutory processes' before requiring her to attend a meeting with him to discuss the Met's ongoing problems and the court cases against it. |
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Post by jayblanc on Sept 2, 2022 19:20:23 GMT
But if a culture in which perfectly decent young men tend to "head for the door" as you put it, could be shifted to persuade young fathers that accepting their responsibility can be good for their children and them -wouldn't that be a worthy objective ? Conscripts are rarely productive. And you seem to make a category error by deciding that the 'decent young men' who don't want to be fathers, would be 'decent young fathers', when it seems their choice already made it clear they would not be. |
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alurqa
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Freiburg im Breisgau's flag
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Post by alurqa on Sept 2, 2022 19:41:24 GMT
Russia announces the indefinite switching off of the Nordstream1 pipeline, because of a little oil leak on one of the control panels. They are even struggling to lie competently. EU gas storage now in excess of 80% full, but notable that today saw just a 0.19% increase, the lowest rate of acquisition I can recall seeing since flows turned positive in March. Not sure what this means, although it is notable that earlier in the week, after the 'temporary' shutdown, Europe managed to add 0.4% in a day, so maybe this was just a blip. I suspect Putin has started to worry about the recent falls in gas prices created by the EU's huge efforts at storage and efficiency, and is using Nordstream to attempt to manipulate prices. Always thought it was odd that Germany were so open about their storage growth. Would Russia simply know anyway? It says German storage on Wednesday (31st August) stood at 84%. According to this graph this is near the average maximum Germany has had over the last few years. Clearly more will be better and according to this the amount of gas continued to increase in July even when the pipeline was last shut down (a previous chart on that page).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 19:43:24 GMT
I think any relationship needs both partners to love and respect each other and to want to be together. Any unhappiness, on either side or both will ultimately be damaging, both to the couple and - if there are any - the children.
As with most things then there are rarely simple solutions.
As Ms Truss will shortly discover (though wouldn’t it be delightful if she lost. Her shock would be a thing of joy as she contemplates the end of an illustrious career.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 19:43:57 GMT
Always thought it was odd that Germany were so open about their storage growth. Would Russia simply know anyway? It says German storage on Wednesday (31st August) stood at 84%. According to this graph this is near the average maximum Germany has had over the last few years. Clearly more will be better and according to this the amount of gas continued to increase in July even when the pipeline was last shut down (a previous chart on that page).
View AttachmentBlimey! Are they that clever?!? |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 2, 2022 19:55:21 GMT
@crofty
"I have also said that, provided the government we end up with best represents the entire country, I would then be able to accept that far more happily than at present."
Might be rather difficult for it to represent voters in NI.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Sept 2, 2022 19:55:40 GMT
Taxpayers have stumped up the £129,700 cost for the legal "opinion" commissioned by Johnson to try and derail the Privileges Committee inquiry into whether he misled Parliament: Isn't it odd that the so called "Taxpayer's Alliance" never get perturbed about that sort of waste of public money, nor dodgy Covid contracts or anything if that sort? Only ever bog standard spending by the civil service, local government and the NHS. (Actually it isn't odd at all). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 20:04:32 GMT
@crofty
"I have also said that, provided the government we end up with best represents the entire country, I would then be able to accept that far more happily than at present."
Might be rather difficult for it to represent voters in NI. Well, my view in that is probably the same as yours: Ireland for the Irish. However, until the inevitable does occur then a genuine PR system will be better than what we have now. |
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Post by steve on Sept 2, 2022 20:12:05 GMT
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 2, 2022 20:15:55 GMT
@crofty
"I have also said that, provided the government we end up with best represents the entire country, I would then be able to accept that far more happily than at present."
Might be rather difficult for it to represent voters in NI. Well, my view in that is probably the same as yours: Ireland for the Irish. However, until the inevitable does occur then a genuine PR system will be better than what we have now.
I do agree that a genuine PR system is much better than FPTP, but it shouldn't be seen as a panacea for harmonious governance. Scotland, Wales and NI all have PR systems in place but it doesn't produce much in the way of sweetness and light!  |
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Post by mercian on Sept 2, 2022 20:23:33 GMT
Damn right I will. I'll be on the barricades when we get our sensible right-wing revolution! We've had enough of this boring old centrist stuff we've had ever since the war, with the honourable exception of Maggie of course. You're in for a horrible surprise, Mercy Man. Just when you think you're heading into a right wing nirvana with Truss's New Model Tory Party, Cool Lizzie will turn the socialist taps on and pander to her public ownership thirsty Tory base. Everything is turning upside down, mate. Labour are the right wing now. You think Truss is going to deliver right wing red meat and she goes socialist on you. Ladders dropped down, house prices slashed and taps gushing the taxpayers money. If you want to go right, go Starmer and Labour. Who said anything about Truss or the Tories? I said earlier that I consider the Tories to be centrist, and as you say turning socialist lately. No, I envisage a right-wing revolution comprising mainly people from my generation who (with a few exceptions on here) are the only sensible people left. We'd need help from a few young bovver boys to do the actual running about, but pencil me in for the role of Corporal Jones. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 20:27:26 GMT
You're in for a horrible surprise, Mercy Man. Just when you think you're heading into a right wing nirvana with Truss's New Model Tory Party, Cool Lizzie will turn the socialist taps on and pander to her public ownership thirsty Tory base. Everything is turning upside down, mate. Labour are the right wing now. You think Truss is going to deliver right wing red meat and she goes socialist on you. Ladders dropped down, house prices slashed and taps gushing the taxpayers money. If you want to go right, go Starmer and Labour. Who said anything about Truss or the Tories? I said earlier that I consider the Tories to be centrist, and as you say turning socialist lately. No, I envisage a right-wing revolution comprising mainly people from my generation who (with a few exceptions on here) are the only sensible people left. We'd need help from a few young bovver boys to do the actual running about, but pencil me in for the role of Corporal Jones. Consider yourself responsible for the Butcher’s role. |
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Post by mercian on Sept 2, 2022 20:37:24 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w And 385 light years away. If they pointed it at proxima b we could see the proximans waving back and Patel can book some extra seats on the Rwanda express just in case. she might want to send people from here to Proxima B! (Wondered why they were building all those spaceports…) That reminds me of the story "The Marching Morons" written by Cyril Kornbluth in about 1950. I expect you're familiar with it, but if not, enjoy (it's fairly short) - www.gutenberg.org/files/51233/51233-h/51233-h.htmIn my opinion Kornbluth was one of the greatest SF writers, but died young unfortunately. |
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Post by mercian on Sept 2, 2022 20:45:14 GMT
Heard on R4 today that Truss said that the way to bring gas prices down was to help Ukraine "win the war". I think that is completely wrong. Surely , if Putin loses ( whatever that means) , the last thing he is going to do is start pumping gas to Europe again.? Indeed one can imagine that if he won-and Ukraine collapsed -he might be relaxed enough to start trying to rebuild economic ties. Does that mean you're rootin' for Putin? |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Sept 2, 2022 20:45:55 GMT
You're in for a horrible surprise, Mercy Man. Just when you think you're heading into a right wing nirvana with Truss's New Model Tory Party, Cool Lizzie will turn the socialist taps on and pander to her public ownership thirsty Tory base. Everything is turning upside down, mate. Labour are the right wing now. You think Truss is going to deliver right wing red meat and she goes socialist on you. Ladders dropped down, house prices slashed and taps gushing the taxpayers money. If you want to go right, go Starmer and Labour. Who said anything about Truss or the Tories? I said earlier that I consider the Tories to be centrist, and as you say turning socialist lately. No, I envisage a right-wing revolution comprising mainly people from my generation who (with a few exceptions on here) are the only sensible people left. We'd need help from a few young bovver boys to do the actual running about, but pencil me in for the role of Corporal Jones. I think you'll find that "Dad's Army" were fighting against Fascism. You may prefer that wonderful actor Philip Madoc's U-Boat commander. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 20:53:00 GMT
Heard on R4 today that Truss said that the way to bring gas prices down was to help Ukraine "win the war". I think that is completely wrong. Surely , if Putin loses ( whatever that means) , the last thing he is going to do is start pumping gas to Europe again.? Indeed one can imagine that if he won-and Ukraine collapsed -he might be relaxed enough to start trying to rebuild economic ties. Does that mean you're rootin' for Putin? Eh ? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2022 21:08:31 GMT
But if a culture in which perfectly decent young men tend to "head for the door" as you put it, could be shifted to persuade young fathers that accepting their responsibility can be good for their children and them -wouldn't that be a worthy objective ? Conscripts are rarely productive. And you seem to make a category error by deciding that the 'decent young men' who don't want to be fathers, would be 'decent young fathers', when it seems their choice already made it clear they would not be. They wouldn't be bloody "conscripts" if the culture had changed. Would they ? Jesus-are they all like you in the Labour Party? I was beginning to entertain the thought that its time for a change. ! |
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