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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 8:10:03 GMT
Meh, just the usual bland nothingness from Starmer, isn't it? I note he didn't address Owen's point about him being a political conman. Probably because it's inarguable. Of course it is. They all are !-you don't need poisonous little offence seekers like Jones to tell you that. They are all pretending that they know how to "manage" what has happened to our complacent cosy societies. They don't. "Our freedom as free lances Advances towards its end; The earth compels, upon it Sonnets and birds descend; And soon, my friend, We shall have no time for dances."
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Post by pete on Sept 1, 2022 8:18:03 GMT
This one, hopefully it'll brighten your morning
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 1, 2022 8:18:07 GMT
Re the OVO energy subsidy scheme, I dont really see why energy retailers are being required to pay more for electricty than they are allowed to sell it for. Surely the thing to do is cap the wholesale price too. If necessary, the difference could be made up in IOUs from the retail companies, but the point is to preserve cash flow for the retailers, whereas many of the wholesales are coining money.
Ovo are absolutely corrct, that this has become a debate about whether it is just or unjust to give money to the poor. If you think its unjust, we shouldnt subsidise bills. If you think it just, then we need to direct help towards people who are really poor or disproportionately affected. We should be using the available time before winter to identify who these are. Stalling by government can be seen as an attempt to prevent subsidising the poor, because by the time the crisis has hit we wont have enough time to identify them - so we have to subsidise the rich too.
They dont like prepayment meter customers being charged more. They say this is imposed on the market by the regulator.
They seem to think electricity prices may stay permanently higher than pre covid for some time, so this may be a process of cushioned adjustment rather than a blip. (they suggest ten years)
Abolish standing charges. This is again a matter for the regulator. Really helps the poor who can barely afford energy.
Mass national campaign to install insulation.
Government must intervene to ensure future energy supplies. Recreate a government department for energy.
Bring in a carbon tax, which would tax the energy input to goods.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 8:20:24 GMT
"The pound has endured its worst month in six years and UK gilts have suffered their biggest sell-off in almost two decades as British assets are battered by a gloomy economic outlook and political uncertainty.
Sterling registered its sharpest monthly drop against the dollar since 2016, falling by 4.5 per cent in August and weakening by more than 14 per cent this year.
Investors have dumped the currency along with government bonds. Two-year UK gilt yields — which rise when bond prices fall — hit 3 per cent for the first time since the financial crisis and gained 1.3 per cent in August, the worst sell-off since 1994. The prospect of drastically higher Bank of England interest rates close to 4 per cent and more expansive fiscal policy from the next Conservative prime minister have weighed on gilts, raising government borrowing costs. The ten-year gilt, a benchmark for the government’s borrowing, has gained 90 basis points in August and is at an eight-year high of 2.79 per cent."
Times
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Post by pete on Sept 1, 2022 8:24:50 GMT
Blame the brown man
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Sept 1, 2022 8:24:58 GMT
It may be that the 27% SLab vote share I recall comes from the crossbreak summaries which you very usefully provide. Worth mentioning that two pollsters - Opinium and R&W - have the SNP below 40%. Were that to be confirmed in a Westminster election with Labour polling circa 25% , a number of Labour gains could be expected. Survation is not included in my 7 poll averages - they don't do VI polls often enough. You seem to have more faith in the accuracy of my data than I have!
Where I have been able to validate these against a Full Scottish poll by the same pollster, there doesn't seem to be too much variation. However, these are limited to - YouGov : Opinium (only under their old methodology - jury still out on their "predictive" model) and ComRes - who haven't published any VI polls in August, and I'm wondering if they are testing out a new methodology too.
R&W have never done a Full Scottish, so I have no way to check whether the weighting factors they use in their GB polls would be consistent with what a Scots poll would show.
I am not suggesting that any of these pollsters have "got it right". That would be silly. I track and publish the data only because, if there is a genuine shift of opinion, it should show through in all of them whether their samples are equally accurate or not. That has certainly been true of the decline in SCon VI. That these (primarily older) voters have moved almost entirely to SLab or SLD and not to SNP/SGP may have influenced the rethink on timing and strategy that seems to be happening among sections of the Yes movement.
As to the next election, we can happily agree that the split vote between SNP/Alba should hand 2 constituencies to SLab regardless of polling movements. As to other polling, I'll stick with thinking that Full Scottish polls are the only way to get a good idea of opinion, and the few that we have still show SNP in the 44-48% range.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 8:29:28 GMT
Whilst politicians flap around with the sticking plaster of government payments to energy users, the root cause-wholesale prices is studiously ignored by them all.
What on earth is this sort of thing all about ?:-
"Consumers could miss out on more than a billion pounds of energy bill savings from the world’s biggest offshore wind farm after its owner delayed a contract to provide cheap power from the project.
The Hornsea Two wind farm, capable of supplying 1.4 million homes, is fully operational, Orsted said yesterday. The Danish energy group said that the project 55 miles off the coast of Yorkshire would “provide low-cost, clean energy for millions of homes”.
However, households will not see any benefit from its promised low-cost power until April next year and will not get the full benefit until April 2024 because of Orsted’s decision to delay the contract.
Orsted said the delay was so that it could guarantee its revenues further into the future and that it would not benefit financially from high prices in the meantime because of its hedging arrangements. However, traders or other companies potentially could profit.
The company won its contract from the government in 2017 to provide power from the farm to households and businesses for 15 years at what was then a record low price, today worth £73.71 per megawatt-hour. Under the contract, when wholesale prices are higher than this, Orsted would pay the difference back to consumers. This would entail big savings at present wholesale power prices, which have increased to more than £400/MWh.
The contract was due to begin for the first phase of the project in April this year and for the remaining two phases in April next year. However, Orsted opted last summer to delay all the contract start dates by a year.
Analysis for The Times by Carbon Brief, the energy and climate website, found that if the power price remained at £400/MWh from now until April, consumers would miss out on £385 million savings because of the contract delay to the first phase. If power prices remained at £400/MWh until April 2024, then the contract delay for the next two phases could see consumers miss out on £1.3 billion in savings."
Times
Assorted CEOs of involved companies write to the Times this morning :-
"Sir, Today the energy market in our country is broken because our electricity is tied to global gas prices, even though imported gas makes up less than 20 per cent of our electricity generation. This energy crisis will be disastrous for consumers and businesses. The help being proposed is merely a short-term fix that falls far short of the country’s actual needs; targeting handouts after the fact is far less effective than reducing energy prices at source in the first place. A more radical approach is needed to reform the way our energy markets work: reform that would show that new leadership was capable of taking the tough decisions.
We should immediately cap domestic electricity wholesale prices for non-gas generators (mainly, nuclear, wind and solar) and cap domestically produced gas prices too. These caps could be set at levels that reflect the investment risk and ensure that well-run energy producers are profitable and want to continue investing in the energy transition. We need security of supply as well as a move away from fossil fuels.
These caps would materially reduce the impact of the energy crisis and significantly reduce the compounding effect that energy costs have on inflation. The European gas market has been dominated by Russia for decades. Moscow’s actions are now directly setting the astronomic prices of both gas and electricity, with truly disastrous economic and social consequences. This is likely to remain so throughout this decade unless we truly “take back control”, not from Brussels but from Moscow."
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 1, 2022 8:30:32 GMT
Danny - please stop lying. I have explained to you several times about the sentinel swabbing scheme, part of the normal Influenza-Like Illness (ILI) monitoring scheme, which goes on constantly and pre-dates covid, and I have also explained to you several times about the collection and storage of clinical samples, with retrospective testing being applied to these specifically as part of the covid research, in order to eliminate the dafter ideas that some have about when and where we first suffered from covid. You have neither previously discussed nor produced any references for retrospective testing. As regards the flu monitoring scheme, it was exactly that, it looked specifically for flu and deliberately ignored other diseases not within its remit. As to re-testing old samples...hospitals do not store these because of contamination, space and cost. I cannot imagine the flu service does either. In general there are no stored patient samples from early on that I am aware of. Reports have denied their existence. Are you saying the flu service keeps its samples, and where has it published results of re-testing? The flu service had a few different ways it tracked disease, but its total numbers of samples were tiny compared to a national epidemic. This could have been accident because of poor funding, but it was also by design because as I have said repeatedly, there are mystery deaths from covid/flu like illness every year, thousands of them. They do not signify the start of an epidemic. Screening deliberately ignores them. Didnt labour start a section dedicated to looking out for the start of new epidemics, which conservatives ended? Because labour had accepted the need for one, con felt it was a waste of money. There was no such at the start of covid. Surely this brilliant service you are on about did NOT detect the rise of covid, this came to national attention because of belated national sampling and cases arriving in hospitals. It was a great shock to medical authorities once mass testing started to gather pace, that covid was already widespread. The ILI totally failed to find it. The flu service was looking for FLU, and deliberatley screend out everything identified as not influenza. Great job.
And then there is the whole question of just who was ill. a covid epidemic has typically followed two phases. the first where young active people spread it between themselves, may get ill but never bother contacting medical services. There are no samples to test.
The second phases is where older people start to catch the disease, arrive in doctors and hospitals and some investigation begins. This is how covid was first detected. typically a country discovered it had the disease only after the first stage was well advanced, maybe even starting to wane.
And that brings us to the question of how non intervention could have a better outcome than intervention. Because the deaths follow from relatively isolated older people being infected, which is a function of time the epidemic lasts. The longer, then more dangerous cases. So if the disease can quickly work through the active population and then die out, it can pass by completely the high risk, who therefore do not die. This is how many survived in past real epidemics such as the black death. Literally isolate until it was over. But that only works where a minority isolate while the majority catch it and quickly recover so it dies out. We attempted to stop the safe majority catching covid, which was an awful mistake if your goal is to minimise deaths.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 1, 2022 8:32:25 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w I inherited a bag of tap samples if you've got a spare £1.2 million I can arrange collection. Phone taps?
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Post by alec on Sept 1, 2022 8:42:42 GMT
Danny - "You have neither previously discussed nor produced any references for retrospective testing." Yes I have. Please don't lie. "The ILI totally failed to find it. The flu service was looking for FLU, and deliberatley screend out everything identified as not influenza." This is complete nonsense. You have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing is screened out. That's probably the most useless comment you've made on this issue. Enough - you are too dim to realise just how dim you are being. It isn't possible to have a rational conversation with someone like you.
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Post by alec on Sept 1, 2022 8:47:43 GMT
colin - "Whilst politicians flap around with the sticking plaster of government payments to energy users, the root cause-wholesale prices is studiously ignored by them all." Absolutely right. It's so obvious it hurts. Labour haven't yet landed on this, so can't claim any kind of high ground here, although they would claim no doubt, that their windfall tax approach goes part way to solving the issue, but it's a complicated and long winded way to go about what is really quite a simple need. The Conservatives aren't even on the same planet. They are so invested in market solutions and right wing laissez faire government that they can't even see the gross market failure they have created. We could solve most of the energy problems literally overnight if we finally walked away from the neoliberal notion that markets are gods.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Sept 1, 2022 8:48:15 GMT
carfrew/nickp The other factor here is differential turnout and the tendency for the young not to vote. The unemployed too, many of whom, like the young, may not even be on the electoral roll. I suspect the estimated six million or so adults unregistered to vote are disproportionately in younger, part time and unemployed demographic and occupational categories. For example, the 2017 youthquake was largely a myth. Turnout amongst the young remained low and desultory although those who did vote voted in large numbers for Labour. Turnout and registration levels are the obstacles Labour have to overcome if they are to convert sentiment into electoral force and impact. www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-impact/the-myth-of-the-2017-youthquake-election/#.YxBfPezTVPwYes, it would be handy to increase the youth turnout. IIRC it went up in 2017, but still some way below the average turnout?
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Post by alec on Sept 1, 2022 8:50:12 GMT
Another Russian oil executive critical of Putin falls to his death from a hospital window -
They really should do something about these hospital windows.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Sept 1, 2022 8:51:18 GMT
ladyvalerie That Owen Jones video clip was disturbing. As old TOH used to often say about post-Covid Johnson; "He doesn't look well". What's happened to him? My late mother used to love "Walking in the Air" and even stayed with him when his voice broke and he graduated to Songs of Praise. Now you look at him, and gaze on his haggard and ravaged features and you wonder what became of the cherubic young boy who once charmed a nation. He sounds so angry too. Venturing into politics seems to have embittered him. As I once said to George Best when I was doing a holiday job as a hotel porter many years ago, and happened upon him in bed with Miss World, champagne on ice and with the bed covered with bank notes won on a good night in the local casino; "Where on earth did it all go wrong?". That was..surreal
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Sept 1, 2022 8:51:31 GMT
Enough - you are too dim to realise just how dim you are being. It isn't possible to have a rational conversation with someone like you. I do like your idea of what counts as a rational debate. So very politician. Isnt that exactly why our government system is such a mess? Elections decided by who can slander the opposition most successfully? Two sides calling each other liars over what is painted on the side of a bus? Worked for Johnson.
Johnson stood up in public earnestly saying how important it was to obey covid restrictions. While personally not believing in those regulations and allowing parties in Downing street. He was right the restrictions were pointless, but he would not admit that in public. Still wont.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Sept 1, 2022 9:12:32 GMT
Meh, just the usual bland nothingness from Starmer, isn't it? I note he didn't address Owen's point about him being a political conman. Probably because it's inarguable. Of course it is. They all are !-you don't need poisonous little offence seekers like Jones to tell you that. They are all pretending that they know how to "manage" what has happened to our complacent cosy societies. They don't. "Our freedom as free lances Advances towards its end; The earth compels, upon it Sonnets and birds descend; And soon, my friend, We shall have no time for dances." Some have much more of an idea than others though and are less ahem ‘trussed up’ by 30 year old economic ideology restricting what action is considered.
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Post by shevii on Sept 1, 2022 9:19:15 GMT
Ah well I’m quite sorted for assorted metallic and industrial and other sounds. Blending them in interesting ways with other sounds is more the deal, though can be quite a lot of work. (Then making them respond to my multi-dimensional keyboard thingy…) You don't know what hard work is- try creating industrial music without synths... www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VsIW3M5p1o
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 9:22:58 GMT
Re the bird and the hedgehog - it was like a pantomime version of the lollipop lady* and the slow schoolchild. Fascinating to understand the ‘why’ of it.
* Alliteration, not sexist.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Sept 1, 2022 9:52:34 GMT
Ah, the chastising of the left for standing up for what it believes in continues. Don't get me wrong, I'm a give me Labour over any of the other parties type of gal, but I do sympathise with others who argue what's the point of voting Labour if they aren't going to deliver the policies they think will make their life different to what it would be under the Tories. And lets face it, Labour's past record in govt in terms of delivering for sections of its base is debatable, which is exactly why many once trad Labour voters have ceased supporting the party. Currently more interventionist economic and pro-Union/workers positions are popular with the electorate as whole, so the left has a point with challenging Labour's seeming timidity in regards to them.
However, in terms of electoral strategy, Starmer's approach is probably sound. Labour does need to be seen to be reliable/sensible on the economy. Yes the electorate may support more gvt spending/intervention, but they will only hand over the reigns of gvt to a party they trust on the economy. Also, realistically Starmer's path to No10 involves gaining seats in Scotland. Back in '17 that half dozen or so seats they won had wafer thin majorities and they probably relied upon some unionist tac voting. Corbyn's left position did not cut through with a supposedly left leaning electorate in Scotland (largely due to the fact that many on the left are fully committed to Indy now and will vote SNP regardless) so if Labour are going to win more sets in a GE in Scotland, it will have to rely on LD/Tory Unionist tac votes. So obvs, a more centrist position facilitates this. This may be at the expense of reducing the size of Labour's massive majority in metropolitan areas where it will win anywhere, but with FPTP it makes tactical sense.
You have to be in power to do anything - for me as long as the timidity does not overly dictate policy when in government, the current approach is probably a price worth paying.
(ps I reserve the right to feel 'betrayed' etc if Labour gets into power and breaks my heart.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 10:05:04 GMT
(ps I reserve the right to feel 'betrayed' etc if Labour gets into power and breaks my heart.) "If" = "When"
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 1, 2022 10:09:09 GMT
Electoral calculus new estimates now out
Current Prediction: Labour majority 16 CON 44.7% 365 31.4% 222 LAB 33.0% 203 41.7% 333 LIB 11.8% 11 11.2% 19 Reform 2.1% 0 2.3% 0 Green 2.8% 1 5.5% 1 SNP 4.0% 48 4.0% 51 PlaidC 0.5% 4 0.9% 5 Other 1.1% 0 2.9% 1 DUP 8 SF 7 SDLP 2 Alliance 1 Prediction based on opinion polls from 16 Aug 2022 to 28 Aug 2022, sampling 10,535 people.
Add in some predictable tactical voting and the Labour majority moves towards three figures and lib dems towards 40.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 10:12:05 GMT
For those of you who, like myself, enjoyed Colin’s poetry excerpt earlier here is the full version:
“Sunlight on the Garden” by Louis Macneice
The sunlight on the garden Hardens and grows cold, We cannot cage the minute Within its nets of gold; When all is told We cannot beg for pardon.
Our freedom as free lances Advances towards its end; The earth compels, upon it Sonnets and birds descend; And soon, my friend, We shall have no time for dances.
The sky was good for flying Defying the church bells And every evil iron Siren and what it tells: The earth compels, We are dying, Egypt, dying
And not expecting pardon, Hardened in heart anew, But glad to have sat under Thunder and rain with you, And grateful too For sunlight on the garden.”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 10:15:46 GMT
For those of you who, like myself, enjoyed Colin’s poetry excerpt earlier here is the full version: “Sunlight on the Garden” by Louis Macneice The sunlight on the garden Hardens and grows cold, We cannot cage the minute Within its nets of gold; When all is told We cannot beg for pardon. Our freedom as free lances Advances towards its end; The earth compels, upon it Sonnets and birds descend; And soon, my friend, We shall have no time for dances. The sky was good for flying Defying the church bells And every evil iron Siren and what it tells: The earth compels, We are dying, Egypt, dying And not expecting pardon, Hardened in heart anew, But glad to have sat under Thunder and rain with you, And grateful too For sunlight on the garden.” Who is Egypt?
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Post by robbiealive on Sept 1, 2022 10:23:27 GMT
Some have much more of an idea than others though and are less ahem ‘trussed up’ by 30 year old economic ideology restricting what action is considered. I shouldn't take too much notice of the "all politicians are the same" stuff. It's the lowest form of political analysis, usually espoused by people randomly interviewed in the street in those weird TV forays to test public opinion in the flesh. More generally, it is voiced by those who, in defiance of theor own logic, do vote, invariably Tory & Brexit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 10:31:09 GMT
For those of you who, like myself, enjoyed Colin’s poetry excerpt earlier here is the full version: “Sunlight on the Garden” by Louis Macneice The sunlight on the garden Hardens and grows cold, We cannot cage the minute Within its nets of gold; When all is told We cannot beg for pardon. Our freedom as free lances Advances towards its end; The earth compels, upon it Sonnets and birds descend; And soon, my friend, We shall have no time for dances. The sky was good for flying Defying the church bells And every evil iron Siren and what it tells: The earth compels, We are dying, Egypt, dying And not expecting pardon, Hardened in heart anew, But glad to have sat under Thunder and rain with you, And grateful too For sunlight on the garden.” Who is Egypt? Cleopatra. Its nicked from Shakespeare's Anthony & Cleo. Mark Antony says ""I am dying, Egypt, dying." to Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt, as he lies dying in her arms. The poem combines what has been described as an"encapsulation of pre-1939 European forebodings?”-the approach of war ; with a sad love token to a wife who abandoned MacNeice for another man. I love its rhythms and words.
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 1, 2022 10:31:46 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Sept 1, 2022 10:32:37 GMT
(ps I reserve the right to feel 'betrayed' etc if Labour gets into power and breaks my heart.) "If" = "When" Quite so and I advise all Starmer sceptics out there to get your betrayals in early. Preferably before the election. I don't get all this Aled Jones betrayal stuff anyway. Sure, Starmer pulled the Left's pants down, but that's an entirely sensible, maybe essential, thing to do if you want to be a successful Labour leader. You've got a much better chance of winning elections too by running political rings around the dafter element of Labour's left. It's all the fun of the fair. If you're not a traitor you won't get anywhere with voters as a Labour leader. A badge of honour, I'd say. Voters don't normally bother themselves with all that silliness. Betrayal is ridiculous hyperbole anyway. As all politicians do, he got a bit economical with the truth, that's all. He conned a section of the party's membership to get elected as leader and has subsequently moved the party back towards electoral winning centre ground. Smart move. I think he's on his way to rid us of Toryism for a bit. That'll do for me. I think he'll make a decent PM leading a social democratic broadly centrist Labour government. Again, that'll do for me. I have low expectations, but realistic ones I think. With a bit of luck, along with the Lib Dems, he'll usher in electoral and constitutional reform and we can get away with all this betrayal tripe for good. People can then vote for what they truly believe in. Socialists for a Socialist Party, social democrats/liberals for a Social Democratic party etc etc. Politics is the art of the possible and a cat's cradle of compromises and fudges. Sleight of hand too and, yes, letting a lot of people down. I look for a politician who can navigate this morass and who might edge the country my sort of way. Starmer seems the nearest to delivering those rather impoverished objectives for me so he gets my support. The boy could do some good, as we say in footballing circles. I offer no great moral case for my politics at all. Expediency is the guiding light. What's achievable in a largely conservative country that is resistant, maybe hostile, to great change. Marshal the sensible majority and get into power for a bit of gradualist change. I think it's the only game in town in British politics. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Sept 1, 2022 10:35:37 GMT
Ah well I’m quite sorted for assorted metallic and industrial and other sounds. Blending them in interesting ways with other sounds is more the deal, though can be quite a lot of work. (Then making them respond to my multi-dimensional keyboard thingy…) You don't know what hard work is- try creating industrial music without synths... www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VsIW3M5p1oYes, that is heavier going Shev, though on the other hand you can build an extension while doing a gig. (Probably fit some of Steve’s taps in the process).
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 1, 2022 10:39:08 GMT
It's clearly poetry hour.
"I've hunted near, I've hunted far I even looked inside my car. I've lost my glasses, I'm in need, To have them now so I can read. I loudly swear and I curse Did I leave them in my purse? Are they behind the sofa, under the bed? Oh there they are - on my head!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2022 10:40:15 GMT
I shouldn't take too much notice of the "all politicians are the same" stuff. It's the lowest form of political analysis, usually espoused by people randomly interviewed in the street in those weird TV forays to test public opinion in the flesh. You need to leave your little bubble of lefty pomposity and have a look at some polls on trust in politicians-all of them . Those people on the street are called voters. copy and paste this into Google chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-08/ipsos-trust-in-politicians-poll-august-2022.pdf
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