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Post by robbiealive on Aug 30, 2022 10:29:51 GMT
yeah but isnt that just washing along from bexhill? I'd imagine SE water will be upset to be receiving S water's sewage on their beach? The link is to the Tory MO Sally-Ann Hart on a Hastings beach defending the Tory failure to deal with the sewage problem, while being roundly booed by the local citizens www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVYIyF_5XNUMs Hart has had a short and chequered Parliamentary career. "In December 2019 [days after she was elected!], an inquiry was initiated by the Conservative Party into Hart after it was discovered that, in 2017, she had shared a video which contained the conspiracy theory that the Jewish billionaire George Soros controls the European Union. She liked a comment underneath the video which said "Ein Reich" ("One Empire"), a Nazi slogan. A second investigation was opened days later over her sharing a blog post, in January 2017, by the anti-Islam activist Cheri Berens. Hart described the blog, in which Berens condemned the 2017 Women's March against US President Donald Trump as being used to promote a "Muslim agenda", as an "affecting read". She has received "social media training". Her seat is a marginal of course & one can only hope. . . .
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Post by jib on Aug 30, 2022 11:31:43 GMT
Rabbit Headlights Roadkill 3 months max before "bring back Boris"
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 30, 2022 11:59:12 GMT
Rabbit Headlights Roadkill 3 months max before "bring back Boris" Yeah, 'cos that was working so well. How about 'permanently destroy the Conservative party'.
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Post by jib on Aug 30, 2022 12:13:48 GMT
Rabbit Headlights Roadkill 3 months max before "bring back Boris" Yeah, 'cos that was working so well. How about 'permanently destroy the Conservative party'. Quite possibly. I'm not even sure the Conservatives know what they believe in any more beyond weaponising the familiar tropes of populism.
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Aug 30, 2022 12:33:23 GMT
Mote and beam come to mind, in your case.Hypocritical comes to mind in your case. I shouldn't have to remind everyone that you started this particular conversation, with one of your usual snide digs. You shouldn't - as I didn't.
"Shred the Fred" was your original contribution (which I ignored), and then you added to Mercian's bit of banter with your "financial probity" snide dig.
Truth does actually matter - even in politics (though it has become an increasingly rare commodity).
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Aug 30, 2022 12:36:35 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 30, 2022 12:52:18 GMT
All the fun of a staycation, I'm just itching to visit
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 30, 2022 13:23:31 GMT
The system has worked for Boomers at every stage of their lives
If Tories do not wish to be seen as a party for older people, they must give the younger generation a break on housing and wages
…
“That is the theory but in practice the system is not fair across the generations. We can estimate how much people put in overall during their working lives as against how much they will take out from the welfare state. It looks as if there is a lucky generation of Boomers born after the war who are taking out 25pc more than they put in. Younger generations will still gain a bit – if the economy grows we can all share in the benefit as we get older - but they will be lucky if they get a 10pc return.
When today’s older people were young there was more spending on benefits and services for families and the basic pension was just linked to prices. Now this generation is older, family benefits are cut and instead pensions increase by the triple lock. Benefits for families fell by £375 below inflation year in the decade up to Covid whereas benefits for pensioners rose by £510 on top of inflation.”
Willetts in the Telegraph
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 30, 2022 13:31:36 GMT
“It is a very similar story for company pensions. The original company pension promise depended on the performance of investments. But then all the political parties voted for policies to make company pensions worth much more with some inflation protection and rights for early leavers and spouses. Those are nice things to have. But overall they made company pensions more expensive and companies responded by closing them to new members – they became a once-off special offer for the post-war generation. Now young people are working hard to generate the revenues to plug deficits in their employer’s company scheme that they themselves are not allowed to join.
The Boomers have done well on housing too…”
…
“There are of course poor pensioners as well to whom we have a particular obligation but even the poorest 20pc of pensioners have higher living standards than the poorest 20pc of working age families.
The living standards of many younger people have not increased since the financial crash of 2008. And that is not because they are living extravagantly – above all it is older people who are eating out and travelling more.”
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Post by alec on Aug 30, 2022 15:10:44 GMT
I doubt many people realise just how long we have understood the science behind man-made global heating. This, from 1912, is not atypical: /photo/1
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 30, 2022 16:37:33 GMT
johntel - this is why I quipped about 2bn people wanting to move here. I suspect you don't really have any conception of how devastating a couple of meters sea level rise will be in terms of global population distribution. And yet you still support spending a trillion pounds on enforced covid lockdowns, which was a trivial problem in comparison.
Today pub owners asking for a lockdown style subsidy to tide them over the huge spike in energy prices. dare say we can afford that...oh no, we spent it all on a useless lockdown!
Another item of course, record floods in Pakistan. Said the world must help them.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 30, 2022 16:45:24 GMT
The system has worked for Boomers at every stage of their livesIf Tories do not wish to be seen as a party for older people, they must give the younger generation a break on housing and wages … “ That is the theory but in practice the system is not fair across the generations. We can estimate how much people put in overall during their working lives as against how much they will take out from the welfare state. It looks as if there is a lucky generation of Boomers born after the war who are taking out 25pc more than they put in. Younger generations will still gain a bit – if the economy grows we can all share in the benefit as we get older - but they will be lucky if they get a 10pc return. When today’s older people were young there was more spending on benefits and services for families and the basic pension was just linked to prices. Now this generation is older, family benefits are cut and instead pensions increase by the triple lock. Benefits for families fell by £375 below inflation year in the decade up to Covid whereas benefits for pensioners rose by £510 on top of inflation.” Willetts in the Telegraph And you could argue post war citizens demanded a better deal after experienceing two world wars only 20 years apart. This created huge redistributive efforts by governments. NHS, housing, wage increases, free university education and enhanced younger. Since then the establishment has attempted to restore the status quo anti whenever it could.
Which did indeed leave this group as the lucky ones who got shot up and blown up, or played on the bomb sites.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 30, 2022 16:49:54 GMT
And today Johnson emphasised we will solve the energy crisis by building more nuclear and exploiting more North Sea gas reserves.
Aside from the figure of ten years to built a nuclear power station, R4 helpfully brought in a gas expert to discuss gas exploitation. First off he pointed out the potential development is small compared to the size of the shortfall from lost Russian gas. But then he suggested it typcally takes 28 years from first intentions to actually delivering gas.
So does johnson expect the current shortage to last ten years until nuclear can provide us with slightly cheaper electicity, or does he expect it to last 28 years before our new gas is ready?
So whats wrong with spending a year building more wind turbines within sight of the countryside dwellings of tory voters
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2022 16:57:27 GMT
The system has worked for Boomers at every stage of their livesIf Tories do not wish to be seen as a party for older people, they must give the younger generation a break on housing and wages … “ That is the theory but in practice the system is not fair across the generations. We can estimate how much people put in overall during their working lives as against how much they will take out from the welfare state. It looks as if there is a lucky generation of Boomers born after the war who are taking out 25pc more than they put in. Younger generations will still gain a bit – if the economy grows we can all share in the benefit as we get older - but they will be lucky if they get a 10pc return. When today’s older people were young there was more spending on benefits and services for families and the basic pension was just linked to prices. Now this generation is older, family benefits are cut and instead pensions increase by the triple lock. Benefits for families fell by £375 below inflation year in the decade up to Covid whereas benefits for pensioners rose by £510 on top of inflation.” Willetts in the Telegraph And you could argue post war citizens demanded a better deal after experienceing two world wars only 20 years apart. This created huge redistributive efforts by governments. NHS, housing, wage increases, free university education and enhanced younger. Since then the establishment has attempted to restore the status quo anti whenever it could.
Which did indeed leave this group as the lucky ones who got shot up and blown up, or played on the bomb sites.
By definition the "Boomers" arrived after the war so in fact none of them were shot up or blown up, though some may well have played on bombsites.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 30, 2022 17:07:00 GMT
Today russia announced that the Ukrainian counter attack has already been defeated. Why did it do that?
It might do so if its true, but its rather too early to tell.
if its false, then having announced that to your country, a week later you may have to announce your own troops falling back 100 miles, or lost a city, or whatever. Which just makes you look like a liar to your own people. Dont tell easily disproved lies.
So why? Maybe because ukraine have been calling on Russian troops to desert and run for their lives and Russia believes they just might do that.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 30, 2022 17:41:23 GMT
Spaffer doing what he does best one last time.
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Post by alec on Aug 30, 2022 17:45:05 GMT
"Dont tell easily disproved lies." @danny - that's amazingly good advice. By the way - did you provide the evidence I asked for to back up your assertion that covid regulations required a negative covid test result to be included on the death certificate thus making the death officially from covid?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2022 17:51:23 GMT
By definition the "Boomers" arrived after the war so in fact none of them were shot up or blown up, though some may well have played on bombsites. Yes :- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 30, 2022 18:05:15 GMT
View AttachmentTruss is terrified of Tory friendly Nick Robinson at the Tory run BBC, she's going to love PMQ's. Except with PMQs she will have 300 braying idiots bellowing their support, regardless of what she says.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 30, 2022 18:09:25 GMT
I doubt many people realise just how long we have understood the science behind man-made global heating. This, from 1912, is not atypical: /photo/1 I recall reading that the first scientific paper predicting the effect was published in the 1850s. This is not surprising as it is really a very simple bit of chemistry and easily reproducible by experiment, which makes the long and highly successful rearguard action of the fossil fuel funded climate change deniers all the more remarkable.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 30, 2022 18:12:35 GMT
Today russia announced that the Ukrainian counter attack has already been defeated. Why did it do that? It might do so if its true, but its rather too early to tell. if its false, then having announced that to your country, a week later you may have to announce your own troops falling back 100 miles, or lost a city, or whatever. Which just makes you look like a liar to your own people. Dont tell easily disproved lies. So why? Maybe because ukraine have been calling on Russian troops to desert and run for their lives and Russia believes they just might do that. Or because regimes that routinely lie can't help but carry on lying - even to themselves sometimes. We have seen this in a less serous way in our own politics over the last few years.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Aug 30, 2022 18:15:54 GMT
Which did indeed leave this group as the lucky ones who got shot up and blown up, or played on the bomb sites.
By definition the "Boomers" arrived after the war so in fact none of them were shot up or blown up, though some may well have played on bombsites. Though those that joined the military might well have been shot at or blown up during the Omani Civil War, the confrontation with Indonesia, the Aden Emergency, the Troubles in NI (which also affected UK civilian boomers), the Falklands War, the 1st Gulf War and the Bosnian conflict, there were fewer military conflicts involving my generation than previous or subsequent ones.
EDIT : Should have said "fewer military conflicts involving my generation as participants" Sending others out to get shot at was never a problem, when there was no risk to ourselves!
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Aug 30, 2022 18:28:26 GMT
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 30, 2022 18:33:38 GMT
But it is YouGov again. Excessive movement one way producing an apparently large move back in the next poll. They do this over and over again. Back in the day when we got more regular and detailed reporting, I noticed yougov was reporting two different regular polls. And these systematically gave different results. So the effect of posting one then the other was always to play ping pong with their predictions. I assumed this was because they have fixed panels for the two polls, and their makeup was somehow biased differently. Very interesting if correct. Can't do much for their reputation as pollsters. You would have thought they would adjust for such things. I notice someone on twitter nicknamed them "Yo Yo Gov"
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Post by robbiealive on Aug 30, 2022 19:28:48 GMT
The system has worked for Boomers at every stage of their livesIf Tories do not wish to be seen as a party for older people, they must give the younger generation a break on housing and wages “ That is the theory but in practice the system is not fair across the generations. We can estimate how much people put in overall during their working lives as against how much they will take out from the welfare state. It looks as if there is a lucky generation of Boomers born after the war who are taking out 25pc more than they put in. Younger generations will still gain a bit – if the economy grows we can all share in the benefit as we get older - but they will be lucky if they get a 10pc return.Willetts in the Telegraph Willetts Wily Wisdom This is not as specious as the self-exculpating N. Timothy Tosh you quoted recently: but it has the same devious intention. 1. There is no political or even economic context! Jesus wept The giveaway phrase is in practice the system is not fair across the generations. The system is treated as a natural, inevitable process, rather than an instrument created by the powerful to protect their interests & to a lesser extent those who support them. 2. Might it be that faster growth rates & more liberal equalising policies before the '70s created both higher incomes & a more equitable distribution of wealth. 3. Since 2008 in the UK there has been little growth in GDP & the disparity between the old & the young has been stark indeed. Tory policy at every turn has been to privilege the old over the young because the 65+ (boomers) vote, & vote Tory (& boy are they doggedlty loyal, nothing shakes their attachment), while the young are less inclined to do either. The prosperous old are ridiculously under-taxed & showered with benefits from travel cards, to ISAs, to free prescriptions. 4. Willets wants to redress the balance bewteen the advanatged old & the struggling young, does he, yeh. Then tax wealth, lower the threshold for IHT, to blunt the advantages that have accumulated so prominently in older hands; then merge NI and income tax and make prosperous older people pay that rate above a threshold that leaves poorer pensionsers unaffected. Or something. 5. "They must give the younger generation a break on housing and wages." Does he tellus how he would achieve this. No. Instead we get Willetts's crocodile tears about the plight of the young, Willetts having been in governments that have acted massivley to create the problem, pronounced in a newspaper which if anything seriouslywas done to disturb the wealth of the old or tackle inequality would scream itself hoarse. We all know what the bl--dy problem is. But like N. Timothy, it's all hand-wringing about the past, with no notion of how to remedy inherited inequality of wealth & current incomes, which past governments, mainly Tory ones, have striven to create.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 30, 2022 19:34:19 GMT
Spaffer lines up his next victims.
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Post by robbiealive on Aug 30, 2022 19:50:11 GMT
The weird logic of David "Two brains" Willetts. 2011. Feminism created Inequality/
"Feminism trumped egalitarianism", he said, adding that women who would otherwise have been housewives had taken university places and well-paid jobs that could have gone to ambitious working-class men. He went on to say that . . the entirely admirable transformation of opportunities for women meant that with the expansion of education in the 1960s, '70s and '80s, the first beneficiaries were the daughters of middle-class families who had previously been excluded from educational opportunities [...] And if you put that with what is called 'assortative mating' – that well-educated women marry well-educated men – this transformation of opportunities for women ended up magnifying social divides. It is delicate territory because it is not a bad thing [jolly good] that women had these opportunities, but it widened the gap in household incomes because you suddenly had two-earner couples, both of whom were well-educated, compared with often workless households where nobody was educated".
No notion, apart from anything else, that the biggest change in the labour market post-45 was the MASSIVE movement of women, of all classes, into part-time & full employment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2022 20:14:55 GMT
But surely the “boomers” deliberately kept all the money for themselves and then - quite deliberately - pulled the ladder up after them (the details on this are a bit hazy but that’s definitely wot they did) and - again deliberately - left everybody who was younger to do hourly paid work?
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 30, 2022 20:21:14 GMT
The system has worked for Boomers at every stage of their livesIf Tories do not wish to be seen as a party for older people, they must give the younger generation a break on housing and wages “ That is the theory but in practice the system is not fair across the generations. We can estimate how much people put in overall during their working lives as against how much they will take out from the welfare state. It looks as if there is a lucky generation of Boomers born after the war who are taking out 25pc more than they put in. Younger generations will still gain a bit – if the economy grows we can all share in the benefit as we get older - but they will be lucky if they get a 10pc return.Willetts in the Telegraph Willetts Wily Wisdom This is not as specious as the self-exculpating N. Timothy Tosh you quoted recently: but it has the same devious intention. 1. There is no political or even economic context! Jesus wept The giveaway phrase is in practice the system is not fair across the generations. The system is treated as a natural, inevitable process, rather than an instrument created by the powerful to protect their interests & to a lesser extent those who support them. Yes, if one quotes a Tory, then some may feel it apt to deliver a customary kicking. However, I should point out, that he didn’t treat the system as a “natural, inevitable process”, instead he did give a rationale for it: as politicians pandering to a large voting block. Which I do think is partly the case, however I think you are correct that it may not be the only motive.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 30, 2022 20:26:00 GMT
The system has worked for Boomers at every stage of their livesIf Tories do not wish to be seen as a party for older people, they must give the younger generation a break on housing and wages “ That is the theory but in practice the system is not fair across the generations. We can estimate how much people put in overall during their working lives as against how much they will take out from the welfare state. It looks as if there is a lucky generation of Boomers born after the war who are taking out 25pc more than they put in. Younger generations will still gain a bit – if the economy grows we can all share in the benefit as we get older - but they will be lucky if they get a 10pc return.Willetts in the Telegraph 2. Might it be that faster growth rates & more liberal equalising policies before the '70s created both higher incomes & a more equitable distribution of wealth. 3. Since 2008 in the UK there has been little growth in GDP & the disparity between the old & the young has been stark indeed. Tory policy at every turn has been to privilege the old over the young because the 65+ (boomers) vote, & vote Tory (& boy are they doggedlty loyal, nothing shakes their attachment), while the young are less inclined to do either. The prosperous old are ridiculously under-taxed & showered with benefits from travel cards, to ISAs, to free prescriptions. Well, rather than omitting it, that is indeed his argument, that things are less equitable nowadays. I quoted examples he gave of how things aren’t as equitable now for the young. Including some data he cited on the disparity. He mentions more examples in the article, e.g. how the young don’t benefit from the same affordable housing provided post-war etc. Regarding differential growth rates since 2008, in citing how things have stagnated post-crash for the young, he is possibly also like you referring to differential growth rates since 2008, since the Crash he is referring to occurred in 2008. Regarding under-taxing, he also agrees with you, e.g. “ so we have to expect older people to help fund this growth in the welfare state through the taxes they pay – it is absurd that they don’t pay National Insurance on their earnings for example” And he also agrees with you about the problem of privileging the older voting block more likely to vote. “ The system has worked for the Boomers at every stage of their lives because Boomers are a big politically powerful generation... It is hard to see any Government resisting those demographic pressures...”
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