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Post by alec on Aug 20, 2022 6:54:27 GMT
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Post by hireton on Aug 20, 2022 6:57:44 GMT
Matthew Parris in the Times:
"Stick to your first impressions. Liz Truss is a planet-sized mass of overconfidence and ambition teetering upon a pinhead of a political brain. It must all come crashing down.”
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 20, 2022 7:18:41 GMT
a) You may be relieved to hear that they did, two days ago: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/17/injured-90-year-old-endures-40-hour-wait-ambulance-left-outside/“ Injured 90-year-old endures 40-hour wait for ambulance - only to be left outside A&E overnight Heartbroken relatives complain of ‘totally broken’ system as elderly woman stranded in distress after fall
Steven Syms, from St Austell, in Cornwall, said his mother Daphne fell over at her home on Sunday evening, but paramedics did not arrive until Tuesday afternoon.” b) plus, this headline in the top 3 this morning: “ Ambulance delays left almost 40,000 at risk last month Hours lost to 15-minute handover delays outside hospitals reached 152,000, while 46,089 handovers took more than an hour, data show” c) And the Top headline is about the NHS campaign to try and ease the overload: “Avoid A&E, says NHS as winter crisis bites early Covid-style campaign launched to keep non-emergency cases away from hospitals” “The head of the NHS has instructed hospitals to prepare a public awareness campaign calling for people to “minimise” pressures on urgent and emergency services.
Such an instruction has never been issued so early in the year, and comes amid concerns that hospitals and ambulance services are already facing strains usually seen in the depths of winter.”
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Post by pete on Aug 20, 2022 7:26:08 GMT
I would caution Labour supporters about getting too carried away by a single poll. When the ridiculous Tory leadership race is finally over and the party conferences done we might see something resembling the next GE result in the polls, but don't forget that there are likely to be boundary changes which could affect things too. Totally agree. Plus the Tories will make it harder to vote. They're not a party for holding back when it comes to fiddling with democracy if it helps them stay in power. Wouldn't shock me if they banned anyone who didn't go to private school from voting *tongue in cheek-or is it?*
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Post by pete on Aug 20, 2022 7:28:24 GMT
I would caution Labour supporters about getting too carried away by a single poll. When the ridiculous Tory leadership race is finally over and the party conferences done we might see something resembling the next GE result in the polls, but don't forget that there are likely to be boundary changes which could affect things too. I agree with the caution re a single poll (especially as it is the volatile YouGov) but electoral calculus gives a Labour majority of 114 even on the new boundaries. The Tory leadership contest and Johnson's vanishing act have made that party look woefully out of touch. When it comes to the things this government has done the people have very short memories.
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Post by pete on Aug 20, 2022 7:38:43 GMT
I think Labour need to to come out and say if they win power they'll look into PPE contracts, track n trace and see where the money went and if any can be recuperated and if laws broken those responsible will be held to account. They should also say they'll release the Russian report fully.
These imo will be vote winners. If the Tory party moans just remind them they're the party of law and order.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 20, 2022 7:44:22 GMT
Yes, yes, yes; we know. Labour need to be 40% ahead in the polls to stand the remotest chance of winning the next election, Truss is not to be underestimated, the boundary changes will thwart them too, Starmer is a duffer, Labour need to be bolder, the Tories will undoubtedly recover, voters have short memories, the Tories always win, Labour always lose, we need to study the local government by elections for the real clues, Lower Piddle was a shocker........
But we can enjoy one very encouraging poll, can't we??
Before we can then get down to the serious stuff. Discussing why Labour are doooooooooommmmmmmmeeedddddd.
We need Trevor Warne back. I miss him desperately on this sort of stuff.
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Post by pete on Aug 20, 2022 7:50:13 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 20, 2022 7:51:10 GMT
I wonder if old Sir Johnny Major was reflecting on the priceless gift he left the nation when he was watching the cricket alongside Trevor McDoughnut at Lord's the other day. I bet he didn't have to rely on a train to get there either. There were none running.
Sir Johnny's priceless gift:-
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Post by alec on Aug 20, 2022 7:56:45 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - did the Telegraph link the incident to the pressure caused by rampant covid transmission and make that the headline of their stories? Observers of the NHS emergency system have long observed a very close correlation between ambulance response times and levels of covid in the ONS weekly survey. The Telegraph seems keen to ignore this - but I may have missed something.
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Post by alec on Aug 20, 2022 8:00:13 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - when I last checked in July, the NHS was around 4% down on staffing due to long covid and current covid sick leave. That takes a toll even before the elevated pressures from high community infections and ward isolations etc. I also saw data showing that more school days were lost due to covid year than in the same period last year - but those advocating against the massive impacts of lockdown were silent on this.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 20, 2022 8:07:50 GMT
alec You seem to be stuck on the impact of lockdown. As I mentioned yesterday the primary concern in respect of public health caused by the covid response didn't specifically arise through lockdown but two years of effective abandonment of preventative health care and routine repeat checks combined with active discouragement of use of health services. It's this rather than the relatively short periods of ( unnecessary in my opinion) lockdown that's had the most detrimental effect.
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Post by alec on Aug 20, 2022 8:16:24 GMT
steve - "...didn't specifically arise through lockdown but two years of effective abandonment of preventative health care and routine repeat checks combined with active discouragement of use of health services." #Worth recalling that from after the first lockdown, we had repeated campaigns by the NHS to promote preventative checks and to get people back to GPs and hospitals. You're characterisation of this period is not correct.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 20, 2022 8:19:06 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - when I last checked in July, the NHS was around 4% down on staffing due to long covid and current covid sick leave. That takes a toll even before the elevated pressures from high community infections and ward isolations etc. I also saw data showing that more school days were lost due to covid year than in the same period last year - but those advocating against the massive impacts of lockdown were silent on this. …and those in favour of lockdown don’t tend to talk so much about the issues with lockdown. Anyway, here is a pic of Truss and Gove…
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 20, 2022 8:19:29 GMT
Matthew Parris in the Times: "Stick to your first impressions. Liz Truss is a planet-sized mass of overconfidence and ambition teetering upon a pinhead of a political brain. It must all come crashing down.” Hmmmm. Cleverly written piece of character assassination. Poisonous too. But just you wait. The unpleasant little tribal Tory will be dutifully cheerleading for the Tories, Truss or no Truss, at the next election. Parris is one of my least favourite political commentators.
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Post by guylemot on Aug 20, 2022 8:22:06 GMT
I think Labour need to to come out and say if they win power they'll look into PPE contracts, track n trace and see where the money went and if any can be recuperated and if laws broken those responsible will be held to account. They should also say they'll release the Russian report fully. These imo will be vote winners. If the Tory party moans just remind them they're the party of law and order. Hi Pete. I was recently on holiday in Croatia. I was in a harbour town on the island of Brac. In the harbour there was a large boat flying the red ensign which was named “Lockdown”. I felt that the choice of name was very strange given the difficulties faced by people at the time. Now I don’t know how the owners came to afford that boat or why that name was chosen. But it did get me thinking about the transfer of money from the public sector to some aspects of the private sector and private individuals during the pandemic. Some of that money would have provided essential services, some of that money has benefitted individuals. I think Labour do need to highlight this in the autumn against the context of the cost of living crisis.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 20, 2022 8:26:41 GMT
Matthew Parris in the Times: "Stick to your first impressions. Liz Truss is a planet-sized mass of overconfidence and ambition teetering upon a pinhead of a political brain. It must all come crashing down.” Hmmmm. Cleverly written piece of character assassination. Poisonous too. But just you wait. The unpleasant little tribal Tory will be dutifully cheerleading for the Tories, Truss or no Truss, at the next election. Parris is one of my least favourite political commentators. It amazes me that people earn a living writing that stuff, and may earn a lot more than paramedics etc. Most of the time I can’t bear to read it.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 20, 2022 8:27:10 GMT
Of course while the shutdown of health care has resulted in the issues the primary cause of the scale of the impact is the chronic under resourcing of public health by the Tory regime.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 20, 2022 8:30:57 GMT
alec My characterisation of the period from direct experience of senior staff working within the nhs is entirely correct. I suspect you probably know this is the case and the statistics relating to non covid related preventative treatment and interventions overwhelmingly confirm this. Having a low grade low funded campaign to encourage use of services at the same time as making it virtually impossible to access them was just a sop.
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Post by alec on Aug 20, 2022 8:34:41 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "…and those in favour of lockdown don’t tend to talk so much about the issues with lockdown." No one is 'in favour' of lockdowns. You have manufactured an entirely false debate here.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 20, 2022 8:39:14 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "…and those in favour of lockdown don’t tend to talk so much about the issues with lockdown." No one is 'in favour' of lockdowns. You have manufactured an entirely false debate here. look in the mirror and have another pic…
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 20, 2022 8:46:32 GMT
Yes, yes, yes; we know. Labour need to be 40% ahead in the polls to stand the remotest chance of winning the next election, Truss is not to be underestimated, the boundary changes will thwart them too, Starmer is a duffer, Labour need to be bolder, the Tories will undoubtedly recover, voters have short memories, the Tories always win, Labour always lose, we need to study the local government by elections for the real clues, Lower Piddle was a shocker........ But we can enjoy one very encouraging poll, can't we?? Before we can then get down to the serious stuff. Discussing why Labour are doooooooooommmmmmmmeeedddddd. We need Trevor Warne back. I miss him desperately on this sort of stuff. The next Opinium 'forecast of 2024' poll will therefore be interesting. They tend to have Labour around 3 points ahead. If it becomes 6 or 7 then it can be said something has shifted.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 20, 2022 8:47:53 GMT
Carfrew - these can't really be pictures of Gove and Truss as I can't see his dagger protruding from her back in the traditional manner.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 20, 2022 8:50:22 GMT
Carfrew - these can't really be pictures of Gove and Truss as I can't see his dagger protruding from her back in the traditional manner. Ah, you have a point PJ, but on reflection, you couldn’t see it sticking out of BJ either, as he probably doesn’t leave it in them: he might remove it so it’s ready for the next victim. Possibly Sunak…
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 20, 2022 9:00:13 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - did the Telegraph link the incident to the pressure caused by rampant covid transmission and make that the headline of their stories? Observers of the NHS emergency system have long observed a very close correlation between ambulance response times and levels of covid in the ONS weekly survey. The Telegraph seems keen to ignore this - but I may have missed something. Haven’t checked that one Alec, but it’s possible they don’t follow your preferred editorial line in all respects. Similarly, there is loads they don’t say that I might prefer them to say, on Covid and more besides. They have however given coverage on Covid on some useful things I didn’t find in the Guardian. Equally, I didn’t care for the Guardian line on austerity or insufficient critique of the EU, though I do love Rowson’s cartoons. But then neither the Guardian or Telegraph seem the keenest on entertaining nationalisations and related approaches, since more right wing economically. Then there were the relentless attacks on Corbyn. One could spend a lot of time listing things the media might not sufficiently cover, or indeed cover too much. (A bit light on storage too…)
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 20, 2022 9:01:50 GMT
Too many photos of the Gove-Truss Remember the Tory party has plenty of other daft pricks to display. Attachment Deleted
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Post by Mark on Aug 20, 2022 9:08:09 GMT
Re-Truss...
As I sit here, drinking my first morning coffee (I usually have two while I properly wake up, ruminate etc...), a thought occurs, particularly in light of the Guardian piece posted above where it is revealed that she is (or at least was) an enemy of the NHS.
The opinion piece she wrote came out almost 15 years ago, indeed that is part of her defence, but, it does raise some questions...
Truss speaks of being raised in a "left wing household", indeed she speaks of her earliest political memory as being on a CND march with her mum.
Her earliest political liasons were not with the tories, but the LibDems.
The question that lends itself is this...Is the current Truss mindset (and indeed that of the said opinion piece from 2009) the real Truss - and the LibDem flirtation an excercise in seeing how far she can "push back against Mummy and Daddy" - IE, has she always been right wing and not shown publicly just how far right?
Or, has she been on a political journey and genuinely changed her mindset?
Or, like Johnson, she will say and so whatever she thinks will benefit herself?
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Post by johntel on Aug 20, 2022 9:19:43 GMT
Re-Truss... Or, like Johnson, she will say and so whatever she thinks will benefit herself? A bit like Starmer @mark? What he said and did under Jeremy Corbyn is not what he's saying and doing now.
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Post by pete on Aug 20, 2022 9:23:20 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "…and those in favour of lockdown don’t tend to talk so much about the issues with lockdown." No one is 'in favour' of lockdowns. You have manufactured an entirely false debate here. I am. Lockdown saved lives, thousands upon thousands. Though being more likely most would've been Tory voters perhaps it would have been better if I'd been against lockdowns?? The reason we've struggled with Covid since is because its been ignored as if its gone away and our health care (NHS, social care) has been so underfunded the chickens are coming home to roost. Now don't get me wrong, the NHS after 2 years of not being able to treat as many our patients as norm would still have struggled, but not to the amount it is now. But the Tories spent 10 years underfunding it as gave hundreds of millions to their mates and that's not even going into useless PPE and track n trace. Lockdowns were good. But started late and other health alternatives could've made them shorter and helped a lot. Wait until the next lockdown this winter (even thick Liz won't be able to say no when a thousand a day are dying of Covid)
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 20, 2022 9:23:56 GMT
Re-Truss... As I sit here, drinking my first morning coffee (I usually have two while I properly wake up, ruminate etc...), a thought occurs, particularly in light of the Guardian piece posted above where it is revealed that she is (or at least was) an enemy of the NHS. The opinion piece she wrote came out almost 15 years ago, indeed that is part of her defence, but, it does raise some questions... Truss speaks of being raised in a "left wing household", indeed she speaks of her earliest political memory as being on a CND march with her mum. Her earliest political liasons were not with the tories, but the LibDems. The question that lends itself is this...Is the current Truss mindset (and indeed that of the said opinion piece from 2009) the real Truss - and the LibDem flirtation an excercise in seeing how far she can "push back against Mummy and Daddy" - IE, has she always been right wing and not shown publicly just how far right? Or, has she been on a political journey and genuinely changed her mindset? Or, like Johnson, she will say and so whatever she thinks will benefit herself? If her parents are still alive I hope they refuse to speak to her.
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