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Post by thylacine on Aug 5, 2022 19:33:14 GMT
Anyone know what's happened to Mad Nadz she's been very quiet, did they lock her up or take her away with them on their hols? She'd be a hoot boozing it up in Benidorm.
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Post by barbara on Aug 5, 2022 19:39:35 GMT
colin can snipe and sneer from the side-lines Thanks. When will I be allowed to snipe and sneer on the pitch with the rest of you though ? Is there a waiting time.? Or an exam ? -I don't mind brushing up a bit. I think you just qualified. That was championship quality sniping and sneering. 🤣🤣
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2022 19:57:00 GMT
Thanks. When will I be allowed to snipe and sneer on the pitch with the rest of you though ? Is there a waiting time.? Or an exam ? -I don't mind brushing up a bit. I think you just qualified. That was championship quality sniping and sneering. 🤣🤣 Oh great. On the pitch with Giants of the game 😄.Alec. Alurqua. Steve. ! Grant Shapps _ so fresh.! .Pensioners_ timeless !. Thatcher and Spaffer _ _ so topical ! Can't wait.
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Aug 5, 2022 19:58:06 GMT
“The lovely thing about dogs is that they’re always thrilled to see you. Even if you pop out to post a letter and come back two minutes later, you’ll be greeted as if you’ve been away since 2017. Reminds me of the man who wanted to know who loved him more, his wife or his dog. But how could he know? Then he had that lightbulb moment. He locked them both in the cupboard in the kitchen. Two hours later he let them out, and he discovered who was happy to see him. :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2022 19:58:10 GMT
No need to put “Mad” in front of her name thylacine. Not that I think it’s rude - it’s just redundant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2022 20:02:26 GMT
I think you just qualified. That was championship quality sniping and sneering. 🤣🤣 Oh great. On the pitch with Giants of the game 😄.Alec. Alurqua. Steve. ! Grant Shapps _ so fresh.! .Pensioners_ timeless !. Thatcher and Spaffer _ _ so topical ! Can't wait. Think you’ve just been relegated. That was very poor indeed. Never mind, there’s always next season’s sniping championship to look forward to. Or, alternatively, you could try my popular board game: “Quibble or Carp?” - available from all good bookshops or direct from me for a tenner. (Don’t even need your address.)
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Post by Mark on Aug 5, 2022 20:08:13 GMT
Lord Adebowale, chair of the NHS confederation utterly nailing it on this evening's Any Questions (Radio 4).
Not familiar with him, but, certainly a name I'll look out for in future...
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 20:12:09 GMT
wb61"The problem is awful and acute for those who suffer from it but as you can see does not equate to 20 million." The precise numbers are irrelevant. I made up some numbers to illustrate a point. Here's a simpler example that you might understand. There is 1 house, and one person wanting to buy it. It will go for a certain price. Now a second buyer appears and bids for the house. The price will go up. Capiche? -------------- alurqa"If nothing changes the wealth of this country will continue to reside in fewer and fewer people and a growing number of the population will fall into poverty. " I posted a link from the ONS recently that showed that the Gini coefficient for wealth inequality hasn't gone up in the last 14 years. ----------------------- nickp"If wealth was taxed as we went along as per property tax say then we wouldn’t need or want an inheritance tax" Heard of Council Tax? I already pay nearly £2k a year. A lot more than I pay in income tax.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Aug 5, 2022 20:22:04 GMT
Heard of Council Tax? I already pay nearly £2k a year. A lot more than I pay in income tax. Cheapskate I'm paying £2400 a year and almost the same in Income Tax.
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Post by somerjohn on Aug 5, 2022 20:23:26 GMT
Mercian: "Now a second buyer appears and bids for the house. The price will go up. Capiche?"
So, let me see if I've got this right. In your "simpler example that you might understand" the second buyer is an asylum seeker or other unwelcome immigrant, who is thus responsible for high house prices.
Doesn't that require rather more wherewithal than the average asylum seeker possesses? More like the sort of moolah at the disposal of the various oligarchs, sheikhs and dodgy operators so beloved of our present government that they get elevated to the Lords if they buy enough top-end properties and flash enough cash in the right direction.
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 20:29:32 GMT
The example is just mathematical to illustrate my point that more people chasing the same number of goods will ensure that the price rises. It's so bleeding obvious that I don't know why you people can't understand it. It's the same reason gas and petrol prices are going up worldwide - demand exceeds supply. In the case of housing in the UK, one way to reduce demand is to reduce the number of people, by deporting those who have no right to be here. It wouldn't be a complete solution obviously but a step in the right direction, leading eventually to a Final Solution! (that last bit's a joke just in case someone's too thick to get it).
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 20:30:44 GMT
Heard of Council Tax? I already pay nearly £2k a year. A lot more than I pay in income tax. Cheapskate I'm paying £2400 a year and almost the same in Income Tax. There's wealth inequality for you. Poor old me. I demand you give me some of your wealth because I'm poorer than you! 🤣
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Aug 5, 2022 20:41:59 GMT
The example is just mathematical to illustrate my point that more people chasing the same number of goods will ensure that the price rises. It's so bleeding obvious that I don't know why you people can't understand it. It's the same reason gas and petrol prices are going up worldwide - demand exceeds supply. In the case of housing in the UK, one way to reduce demand is to reduce the number of people, by deporting those who have no right to be here. It wouldn't be a complete solution obviously but a step in the right direction, leading eventually to a Final Solution! (that last bit's a joke just in case someone's too thick to get it). It may be a joke but it's tasteless. I suspect most people 'who have no right to be here' aren't living in their own homes and are mainly sharing with someone who does have a right to live here or is in detention somewhere. So hardly a great effect on supply and demand in the housing market.
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 20:46:18 GMT
steamdrivenandyI notice you ignored the bit about giving me some of your wealth. 😁
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Post by somerjohn on Aug 5, 2022 20:47:23 GMT
Mercian: "my point that more people chasing the same number of goods will ensure that the price rises. It's so bleeding obvious that I don't know why you people can't understand it.
And my point was that those extra people will only ensure that the price rises if they are in a position to outbid the locals. Which very few, if any, asylum seekers will be able to do. Unlike the obscenely wealthy 'citizens of nowhere' so welcomed by our current government. That's so bleeding obvious that I don't know why you can't understand it.
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Post by lefthanging on Aug 5, 2022 20:48:32 GMT
mercian I think you are right that the presence of additional people in the country will - all other things being equal - have an inflationary impact on property prices. Just because somebody can't afford to buy, they of course must live somewhere, and so will play a role in reducing the housing stock available to buy. However I'd caution that if the number of illegal migrants in the country is small, then it's possible that the effect size could be so low that either: 1) the impact on prices would be negligible; or 2) the cumulative impact of the increase could be smaller than the actual cost of deterring and/or removing them. It is also worth considering that - sadly - illegal migrants are much more likely to be living in overcrowded multi-occupancy housing, which will further reduce the practical impact they have on the housing market.
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 20:57:12 GMT
Mercian: "my point that more people chasing the same number of goods will ensure that the price rises. It's so bleeding obvious that I don't know why you people can't understand it. And my point was that those extra people will only ensure that the price rises if they are in a position to outbid the locals. Which very few, if any, asylum seekers will be able to do. Unlike the obscenely wealthy 'citizens of nowhere' so welcomed by our current government. That's so bleeding obvious that I don't know why you can't understand it. Well that's your theory. Do you have any evidence? I understand that they pay people smugglers thousands of pounds so they're not exactly penniless. I saw one report that said they paid 20,000 euros. You can buy a house for £50,000 in some places (AVERAGE price in Middlesbrough is £55K apparently), so the deposit would be less than they pay for the crossing.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Aug 5, 2022 20:57:20 GMT
steamdrivenandy I notice you ignored the bit about giving me some of your wealth. 😁 Yep After a nanosecond's consideration I judged that you weren't deserving.
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 21:00:23 GMT
mercian I think you are right that the presence of additional people in the country will - all other things being equal - have an inflationary impact on property prices. Just because somebody can't afford to buy, they of course must live somewhere, and so will play a role in reducing the housing stock available to buy. However I'd caution that if the number of illegal migrants in the country is small, then it's possible that the effect size could be so low that either: 1) the impact on prices would be negligible; or 2) the cumulative impact of the increase could be smaller than the actual cost of deterring and/or removing them. It is also worth considering that - sadly - illegal migrants are much more likely to be living in overcrowded multi-occupancy housing, which will further reduce the practical impact they have on the housing market. Thank you for a sensible reply. This en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_Kingdomsuggests that there are hundreds of thousands here already, so not what I'd call a small number. There were supposed to be over 300,000 in 2001. I dare say some of them have bought houses by now.
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 21:01:28 GMT
steamdrivenandy I notice you ignored the bit about giving me some of your wealth. 😁 Yep After a nanosecond's consideration I judged that you weren't deserving. Is it because I is black? 🤣
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Post by hireton on Aug 5, 2022 21:10:10 GMT
Lord Adebowale, chair of the NHS confederation utterly nailing it on this evening's Any Questions (Radio 4). Not familiar with him, but, certainly a name I'll look out for in future... @mark Victor Adebowale was Chief Executive of Centrepoint and then Turning Point.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Aug 5, 2022 21:12:37 GMT
You may be puce green with pinks spots for all I care, you is not deserving any of my pension, though you might be deserving of a course on racial integration.
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 21:16:51 GMT
You may be puce green with pinks spots for all I care, you is not deserving any of my pension, though you might be deserving of a course on racial integration. Ah yes, state indoctrination. That's the ticket. "How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?"
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,080
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Post by oldnat on Aug 5, 2022 21:19:47 GMT
What has the UK done good in the world? Fair enough, here is some of the good stuff - the concept of representative Parliamentary democracy, the concept of the 'rule of law' (i.e. every one is equal under the law), the Royal Navy suppressing piracy and the slave trade (cynics might say after they had ceased to be profitable for the UK, but nevertheless still a good thing), a whole range of technologies and inventions, key economic ideas (for example free trade), major cultural contributions across a whole range of fields (including inventing most major sports), and keeping World War 2 going long enough for the Soviet Union and USA to win it. I agree that these are "good stuff" - though It is pushing national pride a bit to suggest that any particular state takes the credit for the concepts of "representative Parliamentary democracy" and the "rule of law". These developed in many places and at many times. England (not the UK) can reasonably be considered as being in the forefront of developing a form of liberal democracy that involved the executive being accountable to the legislature, although it was representative of economic interests, not people. Bright correctly referred to England as the "Mother of Parliaments", because the English model was exported to so many subsidiary legislatures in the colonies.
The rule of law has been so widely conceptualised since the days of Aristotle that no place can take particular credit for it, but encouraging it has certainly been a good thing -
www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+patrick+echr&docid=608050825592005412&mid=0B11FA03D4710D20D65A0B11FA03D4710D20D65A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
As to much of the other good stuff you mention, it would be a novel approach to suggest that the sports that competitors have been engaged in in Birmingham were invented in the UK, or that golf or cricket (which both long predated the UK) required that particular political union to exist, for them to become "major".
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 21:26:31 GMT
oldnat Hammurabi Code? And it's at least arguable that golf and cricket were codified in something like their modern form and spread to the world by the Victorians - post UK formation.
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Post by lefthanging on Aug 5, 2022 21:35:56 GMT
somerjohn mercian While I am not an economist, in a previous life I worked with government modelling in a related area. On this basis I can tell you fairly confidently that - at least so far as HMT is concerned - all increases in the adult population are factored into house price modelling, regardless of how low their income is and how unable they are to buy. This is because migrants still need to live somewhere. Most will be low earning renters. Increased demand for rented properties will push up the rental value of those properties, which in turn pushes up the rental value of properties in general, which which in turn pushes up the purchase value of properties in general. Why? Among other things, because landlords are more attracted to buying properties when potential rental income is high. Likewise renters are keener to buy when rents are high, due to the increased comparative advantage of owning vs. renting. I of course agree with you that the super wealthy have a much larger impact, and - as alluded to in my last post - lots of factors, including the (relatively) small number of illegal migrants and their tendency to live in multi-occupancies, means their impact is likely minor.
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Post by mercian on Aug 5, 2022 21:46:28 GMT
lefthangingThanks for that, it's good to have a reasoned response. I expect you'll escape attack because you have 'left' in your name. 😄 One quibble though. The link I gave earlier says "A Greater London Authority funded study by researchers at the University of Wolverhampton's Institute for Community Research and Development updated these figures in 2020, and estimated that the figure in April 2017 was between 594,000 and 745,000[illegal immigrants]" I wouldn't call that a relatively small number.
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Post by somerjohn on Aug 5, 2022 21:51:21 GMT
lefthanging: "so far as HMT is concerned - all increases in the adult population are factored into house price modelling, regardless of how low their income is and how unable they are to buy.
The fact that HMT includes population growth in its house price model doesn't in itself prove that it is in fact a causal factor: just that the modellers assume it is. For all we know, Mercian may have designed the model!
However, what I was challenging was Mercian's suggestion that immigrants affected house prices by themselves buying houses. "Now a second buyer appears and bids for the house. The price will go up. Capiche?"
As you point out, any effect is likely to be small and to operate via returns in the rental market, rather than directly. And there might even be confounding factors, like a transition in a neighbourhood towards houses in multiple occupation having a depressing effect on house values. Perhaps a comparison of house price growth in, say, Boston and Norwich would be instructive.
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Aug 5, 2022 22:02:48 GMT
oldnat Hammurabi Code? And it's at least arguable that golf and cricket were codified in something like their modern form and spread to the world by the Victorians - post UK formation. Yes. It's an unassailable argument that the codified forms of most sports were developed in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and that the UK existed at that time.
Economic dominance does mean that the form of a sport that develops somewhere is exported elsewhere - for example, baseball was codified in the USA, and has been exported around the world.
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Aug 5, 2022 22:06:33 GMT
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