Harris V Trump - The US Election - The Results

[neilj]

Can't ever remember feeling so worried about the future
Yes Covid was bad, but I always believed we would come through it, well most of us anyway
With Trump he's so unpredictable who knows what will happen

I feel for Ukraine and it's people with Trump likely to give Putin free range, but what about Nato and his possible withdrawal from it

Then there's Trump's threat to put Tariffs of
20 percent on all U.S. imports, including the UK, as well as 60 percent tariffs on goods from China, almost certainly causing hig inflation, trade wars and a global economic slowdown
Lastly he's got control of nuclear weapons...

[leftieliberal]

John Curtice on Why the abortion divide helped deliver Trump the White House
It meant that he had support from two important groups in America, both opposed to abortion: the evangelical Protestants and the Roman Catholics, notably the Latinos. What is odd is that Harris' lead amongst women voters was lower (10%) than Biden's in 2020 (15%). It seems as if the issue didn't change women voters' minds. For a country that explicitly separates church from state, it is remarkable how important religion is in influencing voting patterns. Also Trump's popularity increased by 10% from 2020 with young (18-24) voters, while it fell back with old (65+) voters. This attraction to the far-Right by young voters may be caused by disillusionment with politics.

[steve]

Still an outside chance of democrat control of the house.

Fingers crossed as they'll be the last bastion against American carnage.

[matt126]

Maybe the only hope is with issues like the Ukraine War, it will create the chance for a reset and allow Russia / Ukraine / US and Europe to draw a line and reset. There as to come a point when this happens as the war as been going on nearly 3 years now, and it cannot go on indefinitely, Just hope this happens and Putin does not become more aggressive.

[lens]

Nov 6, 2024 10:23:06 GMT domjg said:

Biden has also dithered and been inconsistent on support for Ukraine in a way that GW never would have (but then of course Russia would never have dared invade Ukraine with a US under GW).

On support for Ukraine Trump taking office will dovetail with the point that this war really needs to be ended. It will have been three years. I’ve always vociferously supported Ukraine and think Russia should be seen to pay for violating the international order and established borders. However no country will continue to throw billions after billions into another country’s war with no apparent hope of taking more territory back while people continue to be killed and economic assets are destroyed. It needs to end now, even at the current line of demarcation with firm guarantees. A Korea type result. May not be stable in the longterm but I don’t see any other choice and I don’t think Harris would have been able to do anything different. Perhaps Putin’s supposed relationship with Trump may even help in that respect.

On Ukraine, then wars historically end in one of two basic ways.

Either outright victory for one side (the two WW's being most obvious examples) where the end game is at the discretion of the victor, or a compromise treaty - the terms of which being influenced by whichever side is seen to have the advantage at the time.

In Ukraine, there was never any chance of an outright victory for Ukraine, and it's arguable that the West would never have allowed the same for Russia (at least as the war dragged on, after the initial Russian assault fizzled out). So we're back to a compromise treaty. And the very word "compromise" means neither side getting all they want. "Compromise" may be defined as a result which lets both sides achieve the most important to them positive outcomes, whilst minimising the negatives.

If I was Ukrainian, the most important factors I'd be wanting would be guarantees (accepted by Russia) of NATO and (eventually) EU membership to secure the future. Yes, I'd like to regain the east and Crimea, but I don't think there is any realistic chance of such being accepted by Russia. The only question is exactly where any future border would be set. Russia has the resources and manpower to be in it much more for the long run than Ukraine (painful though it may be) and that's especially true after the last 6 months ago, with Ukraine not being able to break through in any significant way. So what are the chances for a lasting peace?

A variation of the second ending is (as domjg mentions) a "Korea type result" - with front lines frozen, but with no formal ending of the hostilities (the DPRK and South Korea are still technically at war). Perhaps depressingly, I'm coming to the conclusion that such may be the most likely outcome here, certainly after the Trump win. A year ago, a more reasonable compromise (including acceptance of NATO, EU membership) may have been possible, but I'm less optimistic about even such now. It shouldn't be forgotten that in Korea, even though right through the UN were militarily more successful, the impetus for an end came largely through American public opinion losing interest in the war, and it was the Americans who were the ones pushing for an end. It was stalled for a long time by Stalin who saw the continuation as in the interests of the Soviet Union, and the ceasefire only really happened because of his death.

I think everybody needs to think far more of what is realistically possible than what they would most prefer in their ideal world.

[steve]

colin
The US defence budget is the largest in the world it's equivalent to 40% of total spend and as much as the next ten nations combined.

The largest air force in the world is the U.S. Air force the second largest is the U.S. Army air force,the fourth largest the U.S. Navy air force and the seventh largest the U.S. Marines air force, the marine air force is 50% larger than that of the French air force.

If Europe wasn't looking to worldwide extension of its military but protecting Europe the existing defence budget is sufficient.

If trump decides to withdraw from participating in NATO then European union countries could offer a more than credible defence against Russian aggression, the UK can't.

[turk]

Well as I thought Trump won not only won but won by a mile.

What won it for him . Immigration. Jobs . Anti woke agenda. And a hope for a better tomorrow in the USA. Whether any of those things will be achieved who Knows.

What lost it for the Democrats.Biden for hang on to power to long. Choosing Harris as a Presidential contender given she was a very unpopular Vice President.
Harris for spending far to much time not talking about immigration not talking about jobs to much time talking about domestic family issues and far to much time attacking Trump. She had no clear agenda on how she was going to make ordinary American lives better.

Lastly the Democratic Party who took far to long to get rid of Biden, then not having a proper contest to choose who would run in his place, because they didn’t do any of those things they were forced to choose Harris who was as stated an unpopular Vice President who took that baggage with her through the election.

All very disappointing but we are were we are Trump will be President for the next 4 years and may well have control of both houses for at least 2 yrs. Whether people like it or not he not only looks to have won the electoral votes by a mile but also the popular vote . I didn’t want him to win but I certainly don’t subscribe to he will be the worst leader in the world nonsense. Trump is someone who will always put American interests first after his own of course,, he’s not a war monger, if anything he’s an isolationist in some respects ,but his unpredictability does make it difficult to second guess him on the world stage.

I don’t believe for a moment he would withdraw the US from NATO infact his only beef was other NATO countries weren’t pulling there weight which has been addressed now.I will be very surprised if he withdraws support for Ukraine all together and he will continue support for Israel. As to tariffs he may impose restrictions on Mexico trade but only till they strengthen there side of the border. As to European Tariffs we will see, America does a lot of trade with the West whether a blanket trade war happens I doubt it.

My main beef with Trump is his character which I find repulsive will that stop him being an effective President the next four years will tell.

In the mean time the Democratic Party needs to have a good look at its self and decide exactly who it is there representing and pick a candidate who has a broad appeal especially amongst American blue collar workers who’s main concerns are if there going to have a job tomorrow not what some fawning Hollywood star thinks .

[somerjohn]

Colin: "Its not just a matter of money. A European Defence Capability means interoperable equipment sourced & managed co-operatively .

Something the EU members have found impossible to achieve thus far "

To be blunt about it, the prospect of effective supranational EU action is something that brexiteers like you and JiB have always reacted to as the spawn of the devil.

Are you changing your tune? Because you can't have it both ways. Either you want the EU to get its act together on defence, to keep us safe from Putin and not reliant on a fickle US.

Or you want to preserve unshared national sovereignty and continue with something based on bilateral or multilateral deals between European nations, but with all continuing to do their own thing in terms of policy, budgets, organisation, equipment etc. In other words, ineffectual floundering. Or "same old, same old" as you put it.

Personally, I would like to see the development asap of a fully fledged defence pillar of the EU, with centralised funding, procurement and leadership. That should include the pooling of the UK and French nuclear deterrents under EU command. If NATO crumbles, it's the only way to stop Putin believing he can divide and rule.

[colin]

Nov 6, 2024 15:10:15 GMT turk said:

Well as I thought Trump won not only won but won by a mile.

What won it for him . Immigration. Jobs . Anti woke agenda. And a hope for a better tomorrow in the USA. Whether any of those things will be achieved who Knows.

What lost it for the Democrats.Biden for hang on to power to long. Choosing Harris as a Presidential contender given she was a very unpopular Vice President.
Harris for spending far to much time not talking about immigration not talking about jobs to much time talking about domestic family issues and far to much time attacking Trump. She had no clear agenda on how she was going to make ordinary American lives better.

Lastly the Democratic Party who took far to long to get rid of Biden, then not having a proper contest to choose who would run in his place, because they didn’t do any of those things they were forced to choose Harris who was as stated an unpopular Vice President who took that baggage with her through the election.

All very disappointing but we are were we are Trump will be President for the next 4 years and may well have control of both houses for at least 2 yrs. Whether people like it or not he not only looks to have won the electoral votes by a mile but also the popular vote . I didn’t want him to win but I certainly don’t subscribe to he will be the worst leader in the world nonsense. Trump is someone who will always put American interests first after his own of course,, he’s not a war monger, if anything he’s an isolationist in some respects ,but his unpredictability does make it difficult to second guess him on the world stage.

I don’t believe for a moment he would withdraw the US from NATO infact his only beef was other NATO countries weren’t pulling there weight which has been addressed now.I will be very surprised if he withdraws support for Ukraine all together and he will continue support for Israel. As to tariffs he may impose restrictions on Mexico trade but only till they strengthen there side of the border. As to European Tariffs we will see, America does a lot of trade with the West whether a blanket trade war happens I doubt it.

My main beef with Trump is his character which I find repulsive will that stop him being an effective President the next four years will tell.

In the mean time the Democratic Party needs to have a good look at its self and decide exactly who it is there representing and pick a candidate who has a broad appeal especially amongst American blue collar workers who’s main concerns are if there going to have a job tomorrow not what some fawning Hollywood star thinks .

Thanks for that informative analysis turk

Someone on CNN today was offering the view that Trump's first administration was a shambles because he was an outsider to politics, didn't understand the processes and how it works. He called on a bunch of random people for advice because he liked them-not because they were competent. So-the argument went-this time round he knows his way around and what works. So less chaotic.

I dont know if there is anything in that and like you i fear his personal characteristics tend to prevail over all else.

[steve]

Ed Davey accuses Badenoch of 'cheerleading' for Trump after she says he should be invited to parliament to address MPs
Ed Davey, the Lib Dem leader, has accused Kemi Badenoch of “cheerleading” for Donald Trump at PMQs. (See 12.08pm.) He posted this on social media.

Kemi Badenoch’s cheerleading of Donald Trump at PMQs shows the Conservatives are totally out of touch with our values. We should be standing up for human rights, the rule of law and international security – not rolling out the red carpet for Trump.


In five days time we will be commemorating the sacrifice paid to combat Fascism.

Two months later the U.S. idiocracy installs one as commander in chief with the powers of an absolute monarch!

[laszlo4new]

Nov 6, 2024 15:26:16 GMT steve said:

Ed Davey accuses Badenoch of 'cheerleading' for Trump after she says he should be invited to parliament to address MPs
Ed Davey, the Lib Dem leader, has accused Kemi Badenoch of “cheerleading” for Donald Trump at PMQs. (See 12.08pm.) He posted this on social media.

Kemi Badenoch’s cheerleading of Donald Trump at PMQs shows the Conservatives are totally out of touch with our values. We should be standing up for human rights, the rule of law and international security – not rolling out the red carpet for Trump.


In five days time we will be commemorating the sacrifice paid to combat Fascism.

Two months later the U.S. idiocracy installs one as commander in chief with the powers of an absolute monarch!

It is the rememberance day of WW1 victims. Nothing to.do with fascism.

[colin]

Nov 6, 2024 15:19:26 GMT somerjohn said:

Are you changing your tune? 

Dont think so.


I believe now as I have always done that EU is an unfinished project and needs to be fully integrated politically and fiscallyif it is ever to function effectively. I recognise the political difficulties of achieving this whilst member state parliaments retain any significance & competence..

Mario Draghi's report really hammers that message home and Trump's victory the more so.

On Defence , with UK outside the EU I obviously believe in NATO as the prime vehicle of European defence and our membership of it. I believe that an EU defence "pillar" will be a mistake, a duplication of NATO-and a shambles if it ever gets off the ground. 

I think it will be relatively easy to persuade Trump that NATO is a European mainland bulwark for the whole of "The West" against a belligerent Russia /Iran duo. European countries will obviously have to meet spending commitments as part of this persuasion.  

[Danny]

Nov 6, 2024 12:45:40 GMT alec said:

You could make a case that the Republican focus on this issue has backfired, because now, state by state, rights are being enshrined in their constitutions and nothing the president or federal government can do will over turn that.

It could, and has been, argued that RvW was a stretch too far for the US constitution. The new judgement was that it isnt defined by the constitution, not that abortion is banned. If Trump is for the rights of states as against the rights of the federal government, then that can be very positive for him (probably was) even when in particular examples there has now been considerable fuss for state governments and difficulties for republicans. In the long run this may all defuse the issue of abortion in federal and even state laegislatures. Its that same old issue that oppositions may campaign for all sorts of causes and will only get called out on them if they achieve power. So Trump handed them the power to enact local abortion legislation, and they got to see just how much their voters really liked that.

[eor]

On the House - I agree with steve that it's not yet inevitable it'll stay Republican.

Everyone has different ways of counting the seats at this stage, but what's left to be called will be a broad mixture of
- seats in Pennsylvania which are close enough to require counting of more of the remaining postal votes (which tend to break Democratic)
- seats in California because, you know, why count an election in days when you can take weeks to do it instead?
- seats anywhere else that are just very close

So depending who you're looking at, the total for the Dems may well include a swathe of Californian seats that are bound to end up in the Dem column as soon as they get around to counting enough votes to know nothing really weird has happened. Also whether Democrats or Republicans are more likely to win the very close ones is going to be impacted incumbency and the shift within that state more than a more general UNS type movement.

The NYT summary is quite useful;
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/05/us/elections/results-house.html

They analyse it as out of 39 competitive races left to be called, the Dems need to win 25 and the Republicans need to win 15. So the Republicans are in the better position, but the Dems aren't out of it,

[Danny]

Nov 6, 2024 14:17:03 GMT matt126 said:

Maybe the only hope is with issues like the Ukraine War, it will create the chance for a reset and allow Russia / Ukraine / US and Europe to draw a line and reset. There as to come a point when this happens as the war as been going on nearly 3 years now, and it cannot go on indefinitely,

Why not? Whatever happens now, Putin will anticipate invading again should a military advantage appear. His minimum requirement to stop now will be to keep all the territory he currently holds, and probably no foreign troops permitted inside Ukraine. Whereas Ukraines absolute minimum requirement will be foreign peacekeeping (and armed) troops stationed inside Ukraine. I'm not sure why Russia would accept a truce now, because its currently holding against the best the US has done so far, and Trump seems most likely to withdraw support causing a Ukrainian collapse.   The only problem with that is the optics of the US as an unreliable ally, but would Trump care.

What Trump actually wanted was a US withdrawal from Europe. Seems quite likely he might get that, using this issue to force the europeans to form their own forces sufficient to hold off Russia.  I could imagine him agreeing to continue to support Ukraine, on condition the European nations engage in a rapid force expansion so that they can take over that responsibility within his term as president.  That would be a nice coup for the president, and hand his successor some of the pollling keys to the whitehouse based on successful  foreign policy.

[jimjam]

Dom.

''In 2020 I was overjoyed when Biden won but in hindsight now I wish Trump had won a second term back then.''

My son said this at the time and bemoaned the gerontocracy in the Democratic Party.

Like you he wanted a clear out of the Democrats old guard so a new generation could compete effectively in 2024.

I didn't agree as I thought Biden the stop - gap was preferable to Trump but, as others have said, his ego got in the way of a proper primary process.

Only Pete Buttigieg of the contenders 4 years ago offered anything fresh.

[Danny]

Nov 6, 2024 15:38:31 GMT colin said:

On Defence , with UK outside the EU I obviously believe in NATO as the prime vehicle of European defence and our membership of it. I believe that an EU defence "pillar" will be a mistake, a duplication of NATO-and a shambles if it ever gets off the ground. 

There are two problems with NATO. The first that the US is far above any other on capability, and its more a collection of countries sheltering under a US umbrella. The second, is that the US is on a different continent to most of the other members, so all it takes is for the US to decide its not actually in its interest to take part, and NATO becomes meaningless. I'm pretty confident Trump thinks NATO is more a nuisance than a benefit to the US, but I also think other presidents have thought the same. It used to be helpful for containing Russia, but Russia is no longer the force it once was and the US would probably prefer to be at peace with Russia, and let it quietly exert influence in Europe. In fact, it might prefer a stronger Russia to counterbalance China.  the ideal US solution would seem to be a strong united Europe to counterbalance Russia, its europes problem so Europe should deal with it.

Trump seems to be more a fortress USA man than an imperialist.

[graham]

This is not the first time that evil has been seen to triumph . I doubt that it will be the last.
No talk yet of California seeking to secede from the Union!

[colin]

Nov 6, 2024 16:21:16 GMT Danny said:

Nov 6, 2024 15:38:31 GMT colin said:

Trump seems to be more a fortress USA man than an imperialist.

I certainly agree that MAGA is for a domestic audience. Key policies in illegal migration and trade tariffs are all about his US jobs agenda.

I think his Foreign Affairs agenda remains to be seen. I suspect it may be a mixed bag:-

China-a military threat as well as economic . So Taiwan a red line .US military presence in Pacific etc 

Iran-I suppose it depends on his policy on Israel. 

Russia-I wonder whether his instinct might have been that he could stop the UKraine war & America's expenditure on it by forcing a partition on Ukraine-deal done & end of problem. But this sort of deal making fell over with Kim -and Kim is now supplying Russia in Ukraine. So he must know that there will be lots of loose ends to tie up on security guarantees for Ukraine. Is he up to that sort of stuff. Has he got the patience ?. If you are right and he really is in Fortress America mood could he just stop the arms to Ukraine and leave it to "Europe" to sort out. ? Dunno-squeeky bum time on this i think.

[alec]

Ultimately perhaps Trump has taught the left a lesson it will benefit from. I know many people love this kind of thing, and yes, we do need to confront prejudice and the like, but vigils, historic apologies, wearing badges, emoting, endlessly talking about identity issues etc etc, doesn't put food on the table. The great reforming left governments took great strides in the equal rights agenda, but they did this alongside a relentless ambition to improve the working and living conditions of the people who put them in power. That's what has to come first, and then you use the rising tide to ensure all boats can float.

[leftieliberal]

Nov 6, 2024 16:20:13 GMT jimjam said:

Dom.

''In 2020 I was overjoyed when Biden won but in hindsight now I wish Trump had won a second term back then.''

My son said this at the time and bemoaned to gerontocracy in the Democratic Party.

Like you he wanted a clear out of the Democrats old guard so a new generation could compete effectively in 2024.

I didn't agree as I thought Biden the stop - gap was preferable to Trump but, as others have said, his ego got in the way of a proper primary process.

Only Pete Buttigieg of the contenders 4 years ago offered anything fresh.

There is a problem specific to the Democrats, which is their system of seniority based on the number of terms served. So the Democrats who chair committees and hold other positions of power in the House and Senate, are basically those who have been there the longest. Although the Presidency isn't subject to seniority, presidential candidates for the two main parties have usually either been in Congress or State Governors. Donald Trump is the notable exception here, having never held elected office, while Joe Biden was a Senator from 1973-2009 (the term starts in January, like the President).
This system of seniority means that young Congressmen can take years to develop enough of a profile to allow them to run for the Presidency, while those who are often past their best get the most important roles. The Republicans have a slightly different approach to seniority, but I don't know the details.

[alec]

Mentions of Ukraine: I do wonder if Putin now wishes he hadn't become just so reliant on Iran and N Korea. The development of a new 'Axis of Evil' gives those trying to persuade Trump not to walk away from the conflict some strong reasons to convince.

Yesterday Kyiv confirmed it had the first fighting directly with N Korean soldiers. If the US allows these alliances to survive and flourish, it will come back to bite them hard.

[leftieliberal]

Nov 6, 2024 16:57:46 GMT colin said:

Nov 6, 2024 16:21:16 GMT Danny said:

Trump seems to be more a fortress USA man than an imperialist.

I certainly agree that MAGA is for a domestic audience. Key policies in illegal migration and trade tariffs are all about his US jobs agenda.

I think his Foreign Affairs agenda remains to be seen. I suspect it may be a mixed bag:-

China-a military threat as well as economic . So Taiwan a red line .US military presence in Pacific etc 

Iran-I suppose it depends on his policy on Israel. 

Russia-I wonder whether his instinct might have been that he could stop the UKraine war & America's expenditure on it by forcing a partition on Ukraine-deal done & end of problem. But this sort of deal making fell over with Kim -and Kim is now supplying Russia in Ukraine. So he must know that there will be lots of loose ends to tie up on security guarantees for Ukraine. Is he up to that sort of stuff. Has he got the patience ?. If you are right and he really is in Fortress America mood could he just stop the arms to Ukraine and leave it to "Europe" to sort out. ? Dunno-squeeky bum time on this i think.

The other issue with Iran is that it is very easy for them to close off the Persian Gulf at the Strait of Hormuz. I'm thinking of mining it rather than a blockade. That would send oil prices through the roof. I cannot see even Trump allowing Israel to use nukes against Iran. Trump, I think would be quite happy with allowing Israel to expand and push out the remaining Palestinians, but from his experience with Afghanistan he won't want a Middle East war against one of the major powers, which may very well have Russian support.

[jib]

Nov 6, 2024 17:13:38 GMT alec said:

Mentions of Ukraine: I do wonder if Putin now wishes he hadn't become just so reliant on Iran and N Korea. The development of a new 'Axis of Evil' gives those trying to persuade Trump not to walk away from the conflict some strong reasons to convince.

Yesterday Kyiv confirmed it had the first fighting directly with N Korean soldiers. If the US allows these alliances to survive and flourish, it will come back to bite them hard.

Almost certainly in the dying days of the Ukraine war and partition into Western Ukraine and the rest being absorbed into Mother Russia is imminent.

Same for the Middle East, the Israelis will be in a hurry to finish their work and root out Hamas and crush Hezbollah.

[jib]

Nov 6, 2024 14:52:43 GMT steve said:

colin
The US defence budget is the largest in the world it's equivalent to 40% of total spend and as much as the next ten nations combined.

The largest air force in the world is the U.S. Air force the second largest is the U.S. Army air force,the fourth largest the U.S. Navy air force and the seventh largest the U.S. Marines air force, the marine air force is 50% larger than that of the French air force.

If Europe wasn't looking to worldwide extension of its military but protecting Europe the existing defence budget is sufficient.

If trump decides to withdraw from participating in NATO then European union countries could offer a more than credible defence against Russian aggression, the UK can't.

You really do take the biscuit.

The UK works extremely closely with our European and North American NATO allies. It's a joint deterrent.

Yes, Trump will make the EU pay more, bit your isolationist theme is getting tiresome. We left the EU, not Europe, and are committed to solidarity on defence.

[mark61]

Nov 6, 2024 15:26:16 GMT steve said:

Ed Davey accuses Badenoch of 'cheerleading' for Trump after she says he should be invited to parliament to address MPs
Ed Davey, the Lib Dem leader, has accused Kemi Badenoch of “cheerleading” for Donald Trump at PMQs. (See 12.08pm.) He posted this on social media.

Kemi Badenoch’s cheerleading of Donald Trump at PMQs shows the Conservatives are totally out of touch with our values. We should be standing up for human rights, the rule of law and international security – not rolling out the red carpet for Trump.


In five days time we will be commemorating the sacrifice paid to combat Fascism.

Two months later the U.S. idiocracy installs one as commander in chief with the powers of an absolute monarch!

I think it is fair to say Sir Ed has more latitude in airing his views about the President Elect as the leader of the third Party in the House.  I hope you would accept it is the Duty of The Prime Minister to put Britain's interests first and foster good relations with the incoming administration (although not at any cost) whatever his personal views might be.   He caught some Flak for having Lunch with Trump 3 weeks ago.

I was Surprised at PMQ's today by the line taken by Kemi Badenoch, she was seeking to embarrass the PM with Lammy's comments about Trump but suggesting we roll out the red carpet for him and give him the honour of addressing Parliament can hardly have gone down well in the Country where on a cautious estimate I imagine at least 80% of those who follow events woke up today and were dismayed.  A curious failure to read the room.

[mark61]

Nov 6, 2024 16:57:49 GMT alec said:

Ultimately perhaps Trump has taught the left a lesson it will benefit from. I know many people love this kind of thing, and yes, we do need to confront prejudice and the like, but vigils, historic apologies, wearing badges, emoting, endlessly talking about identity issues etc etc, doesn't put food on the table. The great reforming left governments took great strides in the equal rights agenda, but they did this alongside a relentless ambition to improve the working and living conditions of the people who put them in power. That's what has to come first, and then you use the rising tide to ensure all boats can float.

Agreed Talk is cheap, Identity politics are often well intentioned but no substitute for driving up the working and Living conditions of the Majority. You can't fake this. People know whether their lives are getting better, warm words butter no Parsnips.  It will not be enough for Labour In 4 years time to produce a graph or two showing A&E times have dropped from 5 hours down to 4. The improvement of the lot of the less well off should be their unwavering mission, and everything should be subservient to it.  It is what they will be judged on. deservedly so.

[steve]

laszlo4new

Wrong.

Remembrance Sunday has been held since the end of the first world war. However Remembrance Day is to honour armed forces members  and civilians who have died in the line of duty.
Not just in the first world war.


Perhaps You might like to share your thoughts  with the royal British legion that no one killed after 1918 are being honoured.

This is what the RBL says

"Remembrance Sunday is a national opportunity to remember the service and sacrifice of all those that have defended our freedoms and protected our way of life."

[jib]

[RAF]

For all those saying the polls got it wrong, the final results in the swing states are likely to show they were pretty accurate.

Georgia- R+1.3%
Michigan- R+1.4% (98.7%)
Wisconsin- R+0.9% (99%)
Pennsylvania- R+2% (97.9%)
North Carolina- R+3.4%
Arizona- R+3.3% (60.7%)
Nevada- R+4.9% (84.7%)

Wisconsin, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania decided on 2% or less of the total vote. That broadly what the polls said would happen.

NC, a larger win for R than expected. Arizona, a narrower win for R than expected.

Nevada, as expected in most polls.