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Post by mark61 on Jun 12, 2024 15:17:00 GMT
Douglas Ross failing to get elected would be my "Portillo moment". Portillo moment, I've got a Bingo card full of them, in order of magnitude; Braverman, Badenoch, Truss, Rees-Mogg, Holden (leave Angela alone)! Patel, Williamson, Mourdant and locally the icing on the cake Jonny 'Action Man' Mercer. If I get a full house it will be as good as England winning the Euros!, meaning no disrespect to our colleagues North of the border. |
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Post by reggieside on Jun 12, 2024 15:24:05 GMT
Frog face failing to win in Clacton would be the absolute best. Sadly unlikely - but we can dream ....
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Post by crossbat11 on Jun 12, 2024 15:26:31 GMT
sheviiI think you made some good points in your recent post, albeit there might have been a bit too much formulaic labelling of views for my liking, but I hope you forgive me for not replying in detail to the argument you pose. That not not because it doesn't merit a serious response, and as a couple of veteran posters on this site, I hope you can afford me credit for having made serious arguments of my own about Jeremy Corbyn and the two elections he fought. We've both had interesting discussions between ourselves over the years that have elapsed since he was last leader. We've usually ended up agreeing to disagree fairly amicably. But that was then and this is now. I confess to taking the mickey more recently on the subject but I'm talked out on the subject and have become much more animated and interested in the current election and contemporary politics. I just think, with due respect to all the various persistent protagonists, myself included, that we've basically done the topic to death and it may well be in danger of choking the life out of this forum. That's disappointing when UKPR should be absorbed by what is shaping up to be a momentous general election.
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Post by mercian on Jun 12, 2024 15:30:34 GMT
mercian - "I like the co-operative model too. The John Lewis Partnership and the Co-op itself are the prime examples that I'm aware of. Do you have any theories as to why it didn't take off more?" One reason is regulation and regulatory capture. In the finance sector, Credit Unions are effective and locally based, but heavily restricted by regulations, which have not been drafted for the benefit of local people, but instead under pressure from major banks anxious to avoid creating a space for alternative models to thrive. This has long been the case. In Victorian times, the newly created Post Office started to sell pension products, but banks were furious because they couldn't compete and make large profits, so in due course the PO was forced to leave the market and private pensions have been in the hands of the finance sector ever since. To be fair, I think co-operative models also suffer from slow administrative needs. Because of the more democratic decision making, they aren't as nimble as share holder owned enterprises, and financiers probably apply differing criteria making borrowing more costly, especially for new entrants. That reminds me that I've got some of my vast wealth in the Coventry Building Society. They're still pretty successful and have recently taken over the Co-operative Bank. |
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Post by ping on Jun 12, 2024 15:33:13 GMT
Interesting perspective from Pippa Crerar in the latest Guardian Politics Weekly podcast: Labour's commitments during this election campaign are described as "first steps of government", implying they are a baseline upon which they might build a bolder programme (should they get in). Similar to Labour in 1997, who pledged to cut NHS waiting lists by 100,000, but in the end went much further (essentially eradicating them). When she asked Starmer about this "on the road", he said: "Absolutely, exactly that!"
Something to hang on to at least :-)
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,733
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Jun 12, 2024 15:34:08 GMT
and it may well be in danger of choking the life out of this forum. That's disappointing when UKPR should be absorbed by what is shaping up to be a momentous general election. All this hostility to the left and complaining almost whenever they post is in danger of choking the life out the board and distracting from the election anyway, onto more serious things… about van the man… Jen said “yeah, but you do have problems with basic English. I've seen that in the last few pages”. Jen - when you say that you’re not left wing, I for one believe you. Genuine lefties don’t talk down to people and/ or make out that they are better than others. 👍 This place. 😐 Van Morrison wrote a song called "This Weight'. If you substitute "This Place' into his lyrics, then it sums up UKPR in many ways. A fine Van ditty off one of his less celebrated, but in my view most brilliant albums; The Healing Game. youtu.be/7uXVbauxtMQ?si=95le9OgGEhM9Np4zAfraid you are going to have to give up on him batters, as he has been interviewed in… the Telegraph! 😰 |
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Post by crossbat11 on Jun 12, 2024 15:35:32 GMT
All this hostility to the left and complaining almost whenever they post is in danger of choking the life out the board and distracting from the election Got in there quick with your edit, Carfers. Ejection was far better than election, I thought!? The General Ejection of 2024 has a nice ring about it in terms of the history books yet to be written. 😁😜 |
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Post by shevii on Jun 12, 2024 15:36:40 GMT
Election Maps UK
@electionmapsuk
·
12m
Westminster Voting Intention:
LAB: 41% (-3)
CON: 25% (-2)
RFM: 13% (+2)
LDM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-1)
SNP: 3% (=)
Via
@moreincommon_
, 11-12 Jun.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,733
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Jun 12, 2024 15:37:19 GMT
All this hostility to the left and complaining almost whenever they post is in danger of choking the life out the board and distracting from the election Got in there quick with your edit, Carfers. Ejection was far better than election, I thought!? The General Ejection of 2024 has a nice ring about it in terms of the history books yet to be written. 😁😜 It could have been worse though batters, if autocorrect had gone a different way! 😮 anyway Check my edit about van! |
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Post by alec on Jun 12, 2024 15:37:24 GMT
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Post by mercian on Jun 12, 2024 15:47:01 GMT
Well another day dawns and yet again it's not going to be Sunak's. 0% growth announced in the economy for April means he has nothing to point to for his supposed canny stewardship of the nations finances or for the mythical turnaround he has personally nurtured. Later tonight he will tell us about the hardships he endured as a child not having sky TV. I am sure the nation will identify not! More derision coming his way ? I am sure he and all Tory candidates will think it well worth the opprobrium he suffered for leaving the DDay commemorations early. Poor Rishi. His poverty stricken upbringing without Sky TV and "all sorts of things" will surely tug at the nation's heartstrings. There's a sort of middle-class 'Four Yorkshiremen' competition going on... youtu.be/7UfCspB_JCMCarla Denyer of the Greens also says that her family mostly had second-hand cars throughout most of her childhood! Poor souls. I wonder whether Sir Keir Sonofatoolmaker will weigh in by saying that his family couldn't often eat caviar or something? |
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Post by alec on Jun 12, 2024 15:47:47 GMT
With the streams of misinformation available online, it's hard to know what to make of this claim - x.com/radeksikorski/status/1800513808458248571Gazprom has lost 30% of it's market value as it's shares have slumped since May, with large daily falls still and no bottom yet in sight. Putin seeking a frozen conflict from here would be a major loss of initiative and a sign of weakness. What's perhaps most significant about this is that Radel Sikorski is the Polish Foreign Minister. |
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jun 12, 2024 15:53:05 GMT
A while back, PJ said that correlation does not mean causation. (Apparently this does not apply to party leaders and elections though. No one knows why) Nope, wasn't me. |
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Post by jen on Jun 12, 2024 15:53:24 GMT
Well I advise never coming to one of my gigs then. Do you have to join a party to go to one of your gigs Jen? No you have to be willing to "have a party". (honestly, I thought that was obvious.) You know, the usual stuff, booze, sex, fags... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2024 15:56:35 GMT
Interesting perspective from Pippa Crerar in the latest Guardian Politics Weekly podcast: Labour's commitments during this election campaign are described as "first steps of government", implying they are a baseline upon which they might build a bolder programme (should they get in). Similar to Labour in 1997, who pledged to cut NHS waiting lists by 100,000, but in the end went much further (essentially eradicating them). When she asked Starmer about this "on the road", he said: "Absolutely, exactly that!" Something to hang on to at least :-) Under promise, over deliver is the mantra, I think. Here's hoping! |
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Post by mercian on Jun 12, 2024 16:00:57 GMT
When I worked there I used to walk to The British Oak in Stirchley at lunchtimes. When they merged with Schweppes around 1980 the Social Club started selling booze. I don't think I said they were socialists, I was just challenging jen's assumption that they were solely motivated by profit in treating their workers well by the standards of the time. Someone else said that Owen was one of the precursors of socialism, which was what I understood too. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Jun 12, 2024 16:05:21 GMT
No you have to be willing to "have a party". (honestly, I thought that was obvious.) You know, the usual stuff, booze, sex, fags... Phew, that's me out. I've no problem with the first two, but I've never smoked in my life. Understanding at a young age how addictive it was, I never started. I've probably inhaled a good deal of secondary smoke over the years though, before the smoking ban was brought in. |
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Post by mercian on Jun 12, 2024 16:16:36 GMT
(It isn’t just opposition to Corbyn, any lefty election can disturb, e.g. if one talks about 1983…) Why stop there? What about 1931? (I think it was). |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,733
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Jun 12, 2024 16:16:45 GMT
Do you have to join a party to go to one of your gigs Jen? No you have to be willing to "have a party". (honestly, I thought that was obvious.) You know, the usual stuff, booze, sex, fags... Well was just checking, on here joining a party usually means handing out leaflets and stuff. Which remarkably, has never appealed |
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Post by jen on Jun 12, 2024 16:17:18 GMT
When I worked there I used to walk to The British Oak in Stirchley at lunchtimes. When they merged with Schweppes around 1980 the Social Club started selling booze. I don't think I said they were socialists, I was just challenging jen's assumption that they were solely motivated by profit in treating their workers well by the standards of the time. Someone else said that Owen was one of the precursors of socialism, which was what I understood too. Peace. Not a Stalinist anti-fascist tirade. Genuine question... In a capitalist society, what possible motive can there be for improving workers' conditions other than increasing profits? As an aside, I postulate as a theory, that the reason productivity in the UK is so poor is that in the post-Thatcher times we treat workers like shit, and if they dare complain about it, we make them a political football. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jun 12, 2024 16:17:49 GMT
Am I missing something. Why all the posts re 2017/19 today. We are living in a totally different world now and any relevance of 2017 or 2019 is minimal in my opinion. Why can't posters concentrate on what is being said today by the various parties rather than harp on about 2017. I remember something of a consensus that the most important part of brexit was to cut immigration. And yet it went up. And then suddenly it wasnt the most important part of brexit, in fact hardly mattered at all. Well here we are again, Farage is back talking about immigration. This time, anyone who still is motivated by that will be thinking just how con betrayed them. So not only does it still matter, it might matter more in respect of voting against Con. Irony is, had we not left there wouldn't have been a problem with boats across the channel because we had the agreement to just send them back. Though of course, the total involved is a tiny part of the total who are being invited here by the government. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jun 12, 2024 16:18:54 GMT
Deleted wrong post
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Post by jen on Jun 12, 2024 16:20:08 GMT
No you have to be willing to "have a party". (honestly, I thought that was obvious.) You know, the usual stuff, booze, sex, fags... Phew, that's me out. I've no problem with the first two, but I've never smoked in my life. Understanding at a young age how addictive it was, I never started. I've probably inhaled a good deal of secondary smoke over the years though, before the smoking ban was brought in. And I've probably inhaled a lot of farts from people who eat meat, and still have to do it. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Jun 12, 2024 16:21:42 GMT
Election Maps UK @electionmapsuk · 12m Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 41% (-3) CON: 25% (-2) RFM: 13% (+2) LDM: 10% (+1) GRN: 5% (-1) SNP: 3% (=) Via @moreincommon_ , 11-12 Jun. This is getting close to where I think it might end up. Maybe the Tories edging closer to 30. Labour low 40s. |
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Post by jen on Jun 12, 2024 16:23:08 GMT
No you have to be willing to "have a party". (honestly, I thought that was obvious.) You know, the usual stuff, booze, sex, fags... Well was just checking, on here joining a party usually means handing out leaflets and stuff. Which remarkably, has never appealed Errr, no. For normal people, joining a party generally means bringing a bottle and claiming that you were invited... |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,733
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Jun 12, 2024 16:23:51 GMT
Why stop there? What about 1931? (I think it was). I’m still reading about Crosland |
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Post by mercian on Jun 12, 2024 16:33:16 GMT
Great article in the Graun by ian Martin , on Sunak "not as a politician, but as the great improv comic of our age." makes a good case! "He’s Mr Bean. He’s Michael Crawford in Some Mothers Do ’Ave ’Em. He’s Peter Sellers in The Pink Panther. Like everyone else, I can’t wait to see what satirical-political car crash he has lined up for the finale." Yup, is there at least one more hilarious political blunder to come? www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/12/judge-rishi-sunak-politician-great-improv-comicI can definitely see that. We could add Norman Wisdom to that illustrious list. Although, if he is Wisdom, who is Mr Grimsdale? Cameron? |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,733
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Jun 12, 2024 16:35:29 GMT
Well was just checking, on here joining a party usually means handing out leaflets and stuff. Which remarkably, has never appealed Errr, no. For normal people, joining a party generally means bringing a bottle and claiming that you were invited... is it a good party if you can remember what you did tho’? |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jun 12, 2024 16:41:10 GMT
There have been poor general election campaigns before the Tories in 2017 Labour and the liberal democrats in 2019 , recent examples but rarely have we been given the opportunity to witness such an industrial grade clustershambles as the Sunakered sunk effort at self immolation, it's not so much a skip fire as an entire oil terminal. youtu.be/MqV6H5SN_3o?si=o4E9ldo9Oqd1RJcu |
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Post by jen on Jun 12, 2024 16:41:16 GMT
Errr, no. For normal people, joining a party generally means bringing a bottle and claiming that you were invited... is it a good party if you can remember what you did tho’? I can always remember what I did. (and if I can't do so immediately, somebody will remind me...) |
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