Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 19, 2024 1:30:10 GMT
alec and DannyCan I just sum up your months if not years of Covid debate: 1) Danny thinks Covid started in this country in Hastings in late 2019 and isn't that serious. 2) Alec thinks it didn't and is very serious. Neither of you are ever going to change your mind. Can't you just accept that you will never agree and each just walk away thinking that the other one is an idiot? It would make the board less tedious. Covid may or may not have started in the UK in Hastings, but it was in Hastings late 2019. I have also suggested Torridge in devon as a possible first case, but I dont have local information about it. There was a choir in the midlands somewhere which went to china at christmas and came back with something nasty, probably covid. Probably the difference was that covid is spread by young people, so a pensioners choir just came home and went to bed, and didnt cause a general outbreak. Whereas the data suggests both in Hastings and Torridge a visitor did. Covid is one of the most serious diseases we have seen for some time. However it is nowhere near as serious as was first thought and used as the basis for justifying national lockdowns. How this was handled created a world recession and pushed governments a significant proportion further into the red at a time they hadnt recovered from 2008. In particular though, what we did seems to have made little difference to the final health outcome. It was a disaster which no one is willing to admit.
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Post by moby on Apr 19, 2024 5:20:12 GMT
Returning to more trivial matters, I'd like to make a general plea for tolerance and compassion from the UKPR community of posters at what must be a very difficult time for oldnat . The recent dramatic developments today in the police investigation into the financial affairs of the Scottish National Party (SNP), involving as they do leading members of that party, require us all, I think, to tread carefully. As we often say, this isn't the time for party political gloating and any dancing on political opponents graves. We should instead allow oldnat to grieve in private and give him space to do so. It's only what he'd do himself in similar circumstances should grave misfortunes befall others who may not necessarily share his political views Accordingly, as I often do, I will lead by example and comment no more on the criminal embezzlement charges now being made against Nicola Sturgeon's husband and former SNP Chief Executive. In this spirit of understanding and empathy I would request an appeal for restraint regarding the total jettisoning of the SNP green policies over the last 24 hours. It must have been a difficult decision. I remember those uplifting pictures of Nicola and Greta on the stage together standing before an adoring party audience cheering them to the rafters when their green policies were originally announced. You'll get no ' how the mighty have fallen' comments from me. Such thoughts are not worthy of the example you are setting for us in the UKPR community and I'm pretty sure, (but haven't checked), Labours watering down of their Green agenda would have passed by with hardly a murmur from our nationalist contributors. They would instinctively have been totally aware that all parties have to sometimes react to changing circumstances.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Apr 19, 2024 5:29:06 GMT
Alcohol is fine in moderation, can we say the same for cigarettes? Yes. I've been smoking for over 60 years so it isn't all that deadly. The way some people go on you'd think it was akin to sprinkling arsenic on your cornflakes every morning. Although one of the effects of smoking is to shrink the brain and an increased risk of dementia...
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 19, 2024 5:34:28 GMT
With news that only those over 70 are more likely to vote Tory than Labour an urgent meeting of the young conservatives association is called to address the matter.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 19, 2024 5:43:15 GMT
mercianContinued smoking is likely to significantly increase the risk of early death a 55 year old smoker has about the same risk of dying as a 65 year old non smoker. Of course both are going to die sometime and it's an average not a guarantee. But only one of them will smell like a stale ashtray.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 19, 2024 5:54:35 GMT
"On Thursday the prime minister’s spokesperson said the Lords were responsible for any delay after attaching unwanted amendments to the deportation bill."
The unwanted amendments they refer to are the peers want to ensure that the bill allows an independent committee to decide whether Rwanda is a safe country, and exempts Afghans who helped British troops from deportation to Rwanda.
Unless you are blindingly dogmatic far right Tory obsessive and/or racist, it's difficult to see how anyone with a functional brain could object to the Lord's proposals.
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Apr 19, 2024 6:09:48 GMT
I take your point. I'm 59 so anyone offering it to me, can stick their cranberry juice where the sun doesn't shine. Mind, I'll be saying that in 20 years time if I'm allowed that long on this planet of ours. Well being as they keep raising the retirement age, one side effect of my plan is that we might never be in the prohibited zone Dave I’ll I’ll drink to that 🍻
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 19, 2024 6:16:10 GMT
This changes things a bit! Didn’t Dave admit to being 59 years old earlier today? Probably his way of confessing. Paul - you’ve busted me. I may have to take flight from my Scottish loch-side home for a while until the fuss dies down. Luckily, I think I have a camper van.
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Post by alec on Apr 19, 2024 6:18:32 GMT
Labour and the left should start paying attention here - www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/sunak-to-cite-britains-sicknote-culture-in-bid-to-overhaul-fit-note-systemConservatives never miss a chance to use a crisis, and they never miss a chance to blame ordinary people for government failings. For over a year they have tried blaming parents for the huge rise in sickness related absence from schools, which continues with only very minor improvements since last year. Now they are seeking to blame sick workers for being sick, with the PM proposing 'welfare reforms' as the answer. If anyone on the left doesn't see what that means, they haven't learned anything. Nowhere, I'll wager, will the PM state in his speech that it is now scientifically established that covid is a neurotropic virus that often invades the brain, that covid is associated with high incidence of post infection brain damage, that this damage can accumulate with repeat infection, is not related to severity of acute infection or vaccination status, and is associated with markedly elevated levels of new onset mental health conditions. To do that would be to accept government has a role to play in mitigating the sickness crisis. Instead, the plan is to blame workers for being sick and to make it harder to get any benefit relief. There are two stand out points here for me. Firstly, this speech demonstrates that Conservatives know we have a real problem. This is affected everything, and in Germany, they have acknowledged that workplace sickness from covid is what pushed the economy into recession, shaving nearly 1% off GDP last year. The second point for me is that this gives Labour a chance to do something good. Sunak has correctly identified a serious issue, but wrongly attributed the cause. Labour have a chance to open up a debate on the causes of such high levels of sickness and the correct solutions. I doubt they will take it this time, because they're pretty stupid too in this regard, but at least acknowledging the issue is a start.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 19, 2024 6:40:08 GMT
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Post by moby on Apr 19, 2024 6:58:18 GMT
I remember when I went to university about 1980 that there was a comment in introductory lectures about a no smoking policy. But it didnt bother anyone because they didnt smoke anyway. I pointed out that this ban on youngsters buying tobacco actually is pretty much in line with all of them already giving up smoking voluntarily. Vapes are much more convenient. So in reality it is causing a lot of fuss, but it isnt actually going to inconvenience anyone. The question is, is the 'pressure of civic bans...' driving people to give up, or actually following that they mostly already have? I used to smoke a pipe in class but I wasn't a hardened smoker. My favourite baccy was Clan which was considered a bit sissy by real men. I can't remember what the real man baccy was but it was probably something like Old Navy Rough Shag . My Grandad used to smoke something called 'digger' . I was endlessly fascinated by his ritual of scraping out the ash with a penknife, refilling, padding it down and lighting up again as he sat in his armchair.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 19, 2024 6:59:39 GMT
News noted the investigation into SNP finances started 3 years ago. I'm sure they would agree that 'justice delayed is justice denied'. Funny how there is now some activity just as an election looms.
Plans for expanding childcare are apparently short of 85,000 places for the extra kids. Head of a nursery chain said the government isnt paying enough money and at that rate they cannot find enough people willing to do the job, requiring apparently 1 staff for every 2 kids. I just tried to look that up, and official numbers seems to be 1 staff for every three kids under age 2, 1 for every 5 kids aged 2 and 1 staff for 13 kids aged 3. More troublesome perhaps is that staff need to have certain qualifications including english but also specialist teaching or child care qualifications. Staff seem likely to get only national minimum wage. And presumably there is police vetting, where they might be unwilling to employ anyone with a criminal record of any sort but presumably this is much more likely at minimum wage and so disqualifies a lot of possible applicants. The scheme isnt supposed to be fully implemented until september 2025, so finding more money to make it actually work will become yet another problem of the next government despite conservatives campaigning on having delivered it.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 19, 2024 7:03:07 GMT
But only one of them will smell like a stale ashtray. Although the plus of exiling smoking to outdoors means people will not. Perhaps why smokers have accepted it?
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 19, 2024 7:22:16 GMT
Yesterday in Germany two men of Russian origin were arrested for preparing acts of sabotage including bombings against US and German military bases involved in training Ukrainians and supplying Ukraine. They were acting on behalf of the Russian state. Likewise in Poland a man was arrested for supplying the Russians detailed plans of Rzeszow airport, apparently with a view to preparing an attack on Zelenskiy or other senior Ukrainians the next time they use the airport (which is under the control of the US military).
The Russians may think this is hybrid warfare but sabotage attacks against the German and US military are simply direct acts of war and should be responded to accordingly.
Meanwhile many more innocent people are killed and injured overnight because we can't get our sh* together, despite being able to get it together in minutes for the sake of Israel..
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 19, 2024 7:26:25 GMT
This is affected everything, and in Germany, they have acknowledged that workplace sickness from covid is what pushed the economy into recession, shaving nearly 1% off GDP last year. Doing a google suggests the Germans do not at all blame covid for this. They blame inflation, energy costs and difficulties in obtaining parts in a globally connected supply chain, eg computer chips for cars, where germany in particular has a lot of cutting edge industry and so is more affected. The irony might be that because germany was a world leader in innovation and had a strong manufacturing base, its now a lot more affected than countries which had what were deemed weaker economies. Of course, the world recession, disruption of supply chains and world shortage of materials of all sorts which still continues, was caused by world lockdown, our response to covid. No lockdown would have meant no world recession. So indirectly it was caused by covid but only because of our political choices. Lockdown did not in the end materially help health outcomes. Germany was also particularly affected by the Ukraine war disrupting energy supplies coming from Russia. While on the whole sanctions against Russian eenergy have been ineffective, they have diverted Russian fuels away from germany and it has had to source them elsewhere and suffer supply difficulties. So this specifically has impacted them more than most.
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Post by mark61 on Apr 19, 2024 7:29:02 GMT
Crossbat, I know Villa have fluked a result tonight, but remember to much Brew XI will give you a terrible hangover in the morning! Always nice to welcome a Small Heath fan into a discussion on matters of top level football. Championship relegation battles being more their thing. Good luck with your latest one, by the way. If you survive yet again, I'll toast it with an Ansells Mild. Brew XI was never my tipple. It's a bit of a stretch to describe it as top level football! Anyway aren't all Villa fans from Sutton Coldfield? Sales of Mateus Rose or Blue Nun must have gone through the roof, I knew I'd got your tipple wrong!
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 19, 2024 7:30:05 GMT
Alcohol is fine in moderation, can we say the same for cigarettes? Yes. I've been smoking for over 60 years so it isn't all that deadly. The way some people go on you'd think it was akin to sprinkling arsenic on your cornflakes every morning. Like most disease there is a substantial genetic effect at work as well. All the fact of you smoking for 60 years and being around to report tells you is that you are one of the winners in a lottery you were unaware you were taking part in. There will be plenty of others who smoked in a similar way to yourself who are now six feet under.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 19, 2024 7:36:12 GMT
I used to smoke a pipe in class but I wasn't a hardened smoker. My favourite baccy was Clan which was considered a bit sissy by real men. I can't remember what the real man baccy was but it was probably something like Old Navy Rough Shag . My Grandad used to smoke something called 'digger' . I was endlessly fascinated by his ritual of scraping out the ash with a penknife, refilling, padding it down and lighting up again as he sat in his armchair. My grandfather too smoked a pipe when I was under ten. Smelled much nicer than cigarettes. But had given up by the time I went to university where there was this smoking ban. He lived into his 90s. Though since we are swapping anecdotes, both my grandparents on the other side smoked and drank and never made it through their 60s. Now, I am very much in favour of informed choice, and the facts seem to be that people presented with the facts about smoking tobacco choose to give up, its not worth the reduced life expectancy. That is why tobacco companies spent so much effort suppressing medical evidence that tobacco was bad for you. Because people on the whole choose not to smoke once given those facts. But thats totally different to the principle that people should be banned from doing things which are bad for their health despite having been fully informed of risks. That is an unacceptable infringement of personal choice and freedom. The tobacco ban is actually unnecessary because people are stopping smoking anyway, but its also an unacceptable step too far in restricting personal liberty. We should also remember that eg in the first half of last century when so many people smoked, medical advice was that it was actually GOOD for your health. So people smoking then were following medical advice. Patterns of use have very much followed the advice of the day on what is good for you, without compulsion. This principle also applies to eg smoking Cannabis, which frankly has minimal negative health risks (especially as Steve observed in traditional herbal forms) but a much better feel good effect than tobacco. Its a sensible choice to continue smoking cannabis compared to tobacco.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 19, 2024 7:39:17 GMT
In wider terms concerning your post, I would simply note that you share the common error, that appears to be prevalent in your part of the world, that partisan support for Scots indy means partisan support for the SNP. As I have posted before, if this next UK GE produces (as it will almost certainly do) a large increase in Labour MPs from Scotland at the expense of SNP MPs, it will make sod all difference. Starmer will ignore both.
Like the last Labour government ignored Sottish MPs - just the one Prime Minister, two Chancellors of the Exchequer, one Foreign Secretary, one Home Secretary, any number of cabinet ministers ...
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 19, 2024 7:43:47 GMT
Farnham Residents win Farnham Castle Residents - 32.5% Lib Dem - 29.6% Labour - 23.0% Conservative - 14.9% Res 32.5% (-17.7) LD 29.6% (new) Lab 23% (-11.7) Con 14.9% (-0.3) The Lib Dems have held this in the past but had a electoral pact with the Farnham residents last time not to stand against each other. This has broken down, so the result in the by-election makes sense.
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Post by crossbat11 on Apr 19, 2024 7:44:08 GMT
Always nice to welcome a Small Heath fan into a discussion on matters of top level football. Championship relegation battles being more their thing. Good luck with your latest one, by the way. If you survive yet again, I'll toast it with an Ansells Mild. Brew XI was never my tipple. It's a bit of a stretch to describe it as top level football! Anyway aren't all Villa fans from Sutton Coldfield? Sales of Mateus Rose or Blue Nun must have gone through the roof, I knew I'd got your tipple wrong! Well, chasing a Top 4 place in the Premier League may be described as top level football and the Champions League place that goes with it. Certainly in comparison to relegation six-pointers at Rotherham. 😜👍 Small Heath. Always in Villa's shadow. P.S. I think both of us should probably apologise for bringing Small Heath and Villa "banter" on to the forum. I've been involved in it for nigh on 60 years now. I suspect you have too, but possibly for a shorter period. We both know all the lines and all the favoured jibes. All the punch lines too. This could go on and on and on and.......but probably shouldn't Zzzzzz
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 19, 2024 7:50:00 GMT
Ely West held by LibDems. No surprise. The percentages might be interesting tomorrow later today. LD 1125 47.9% (+10.6) Con 760 32.3% (+10.2) Lab 466 19.8% (-2.7) No Green and Ind as before.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 19, 2024 7:57:44 GMT
Ely West (East Cambridgeshire) Council By-Election Result:
🔶 LDM: 47.9% (+10.6) 🌳 CON: 32.3% (+10.3) 🌹 LAB: 19.8% (-2.7)
No GRN (-10.6) or IND (-7.5) as previous.
Liberal Democrat HOLD. Changes w/ 2023.
Nice hold for the home team quite often at local elections the greens get the nimby vote in their absence some of these appear to have been scooped up by the Tories.
Not a lot to shout about for Labour.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 19, 2024 8:01:01 GMT
Farnham Castle (Waverley) Council By-Election Result:
🏘️ FR: 32.5% (-17.6) 🔶 LDM: 29.6% (New) 🌹 LAB: 23.0% (-11.7) 🌳 CON: 14.9% (-0.2)
Farnham Residents HOLD. Changes w/ 2023.
Not bad from a standing start , pjw1961 mentioned the special circumstances.
But another less than stellar performance from the brexit lite party.
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Post by bardin1 on Apr 19, 2024 8:19:51 GMT
Farnham Residents win Farnham Castle Residents - 32.5% Lib Dem - 29.6% Labour - 23.0% Conservative - 14.9% A new Peasant's Revolt? Hope they survive any subsequent seige
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 19, 2024 8:20:31 GMT
The Russians may think this is hybrid warfare but sabotage attacks against the German and US military are simply direct acts of war and should be responded to accordingly. You are absolutely correct that russia regards all options as on the table. Whereas the west has chosen to hold back significantly. I dont believe this is because of eg fear of Russian nuclear retaliation, and other attacks on european countries are pretty absurd as they would be seriously disadvantageous to the Russian war effort in Ukraine. Rather, its about politics and an unwillingness to spent real money on military aid to Ukraine. What we have done is send them reserve equipment and munitions which wouldnt really have cost us anything in the long run as they would be slowly replaced anyway over time. The US announced these huge notional sums to pay for munitions sent to ukraine. But then what it has done is take missiles from stock, including eg cluster weapons which have been attacked on humanitarian grounds and were being phased out by the US, and send them to Ukraine. Weapons it was under pressure to pay to have destroyed. Makes you wonder what exactly is happening to all the extra money voted by congress. Also, does the president have authority simply to send stockpiled weapons to Ukraine, or is this in effect authorised by the votes? If he always had authority, then most US aid to ukraine could be continuing right now regardless of congress.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 19, 2024 8:27:48 GMT
Yes. I've been smoking for over 60 years so it isn't all that deadly. The way some people go on you'd think it was akin to sprinkling arsenic on your cornflakes every morning. Like most disease there is a substantial genetic effect at work as well. All the fact of you smoking for 60 years and being around to report tells you is that you are one of the winners in a lottery you were unaware you were taking part in. There will be plenty of others who smoked in a similar way to yourself who are now six feet under. There might be some self selection in play here. People will innately vary from being immune to tobacco smoke to very high risk. As they smoke and age they might notice they are getting ill effects, and so take on board personal health advice to quit. Its possible then that those still smoking aged 80 are particularly those unaffected by it, not just because others died along the way but because they saw early effects and stopped. I doubt there is good medical data really supporting how many people are today dying from smoking. The evidence was based the other way around from taking a sample of smokers and seeing that eg 50% died ten years earlier than non smokers. But if we have now changed the base of smokers by giving them good tailored advise, its entirely possible that the remaining smokers are mostly those at low risk from smoking, and so claims about health improvemernts from a total ban are being way exaggerated. Not to forget that if you start as a teen and stop at 40, your lifetime risk is pretty small.
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Post by leftieliberal on Apr 19, 2024 8:33:03 GMT
Guardian reports:- Nicola Sturgeon's husband Peter Murrell re-arrested by police over probe into SNP's finances Peter Murrell, former SNP chief executive and husband of ex-first minister Nicola Sturgeon, has been re-arrested in connection with the police investigation into the party’s finances, PA Media reports. PA says the 59-year-old was previously arrested on 5 April last year in the same investigation and was taken into custody this morning. More than that, according the the BBC he has now been charged with embezzlement. This is starting to look serious.
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Post by crossbat11 on Apr 19, 2024 8:37:07 GMT
Returning to more trivial matters, I'd like to make a general plea for tolerance and compassion from the UKPR community of posters at what must be a very difficult time for oldnat . The recent dramatic developments today in the police investigation into the financial affairs of the Scottish National Party (SNP), involving as they do leading members of that party, require us all, I think, to tread carefully. As we often say, this isn't the time for party political gloating and any dancing on political opponents graves. We should instead allow oldnat to grieve in private and give him space to do so. It's only what he'd do himself in similar circumstances should grave misfortunes befall others who may not necessarily share his political views Accordingly, as I often do, I will lead by example and comment no more on the criminal embezzlement charges now being made against Nicola Sturgeon's husband and former SNP Chief Executive. In this spirit of understanding and empathy I would request an appeal for restraint regarding the total jettisoning of the SNP green policies over the last 24 hours. It must have been a difficult decision. I remember those uplifting pictures of Nicola and Greta on the stage together standing before an adoring party audience cheering them to the rafters when their green policies were originally announced. You'll get no ' how the mighty have fallen' comments from me. Such thoughts are not worthy of the example you are setting for us in the UKPR community and I'm pretty sure, (but haven't checked), Labours watering down of their Green agenda would have passed by with hardly a murmur from our nationalist contributors. They would instinctively have been totally aware that all parties have to sometimes react to changing circumstances. Yes, I took OldNat's disavowals, dissociations and a rather surprising overall insouciance about the SNP's misfortunes with rather large pinches of salt. He's clearly a destinations man now with the journeys required to get there of incidental interest and importance. The SNP and their pratfalls and misgovernance? Nowt to do with me guv. They were mere passing and fairly useful idiots on the Indy journey. As will be a putative Starmer government apparently. I particularly enjoyed the chutzpah inherent in the claim that the SNP were really the "victims" of Murrell's alleged embezzlement of party funds, as if he was a light-fingered steward of an SNP run snooker club as opposed to being the former Chief Executive of the party and husband of the former SNP First Minister of Scotland. OldNat's famed tolerances, understandings and sympathies would not be so easily applied to other political parties and polities, I suspect. But I accept his pleading that he's no partisan SNP supporter. Rachel Reeves portraits and Rayner camper vans just amusing knockabout in the great destination march.
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Post by leftieliberal on Apr 19, 2024 8:45:55 GMT
There are now 18 mps sitting as "independents" because they've been suspended by their parties, in the case of Tories mostly for sexual impropriety, other reasons include allegations of antisemitism , domestic assault and criminal convictions. That's more MP's than the Liberal Democrats and the Green party combined. No one voted for these MP's on the basis they would be unaffiliated to a political party, if suspended for more than 6 months it should automatically trigger a by election. I do think that there seems to be a much higher percentage of MPs who are criminals or sex pests than amongst the general population, and it's not just the Tories. Does power go to their heads or does the job just attract that sort of person? The sort who don't want to work very hard and have few actual abilities to get a proper job. There are of course many honourable exceptions on all sides but the percentage of bad apples seems very high. At one time many Tories had been proper businessmen (i.e. not hedge fund managers etc) and Labour were often ex-Union officials so both sides had had a lot of experience of the real world. Now it seems that the standard career path is get a PPE degree, become a Spad and then an MP, never having to interact with normal people. I know this is a very sweeping generalisation but I'm just so annoyed that there are so many crocks and crooks on Parliament. As Anne McElvoy says in the i newspaperWhat is it, we might wonder, about the political class which makes it inclined to risk or outright recklessness in personal conduct? It’s something I have pondered over a few decades at Westminster, often discovering that the minister I had been talking to about some knotty policy area was better known for late-night escapades in unwise company or deploying the office finances in inventive ways. The impact is of course awful – voters feel betrayed and donors turn off the taps. The psychological profile of the political profession might be a clue to the tendency to end up in hot water. Back in 2006, it was a Lib Dem MP and then wannabe leader, Mark Oaten, in the firing line over his use of male escorts and a tabloid revelation of some dramatic detail. The veteran commentator Matthew Parris reflected that there was “a streak of derring-do in the make-up of a typical would-be politician” which, in the wrong circumstances and a mixture of stress, boredom and opportunity, frequently ended in a bonfire of their reputation – and damage to their colleagues.McElvoy's mention of the Oaten affair from just under two decades ago, should remind us all that no party is exempt from this sort of failing amongst its elected representatives. It just happens that it's the Tories (and SNP) at the moment.
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