|
Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 23:04:10 GMT
Further to my previous post about some form of national service, I've just been listening to James O'Brien on LBC who has been conducting a phone in about the comments from senior military about our unpreparedness for a NATO war with Russia, particularly in the light of Trump's threat to withdraw the US from NATO should he win in November. Among some interesting contributions was one from a woman who said that her school required everyone to join one of the OTCs (either RAF or Army.) She said it was a fantastic experience, she thoroughly enjoyed it and it gave her so much stimulation and confidence and prepared her well for her future life. James O'Brien replied, 'I guess you went to private school", and she said she did. So once again those who are already advantaged through birth and/or background, can access the kinds of opportunities that those from narrower backgrounds are excluded from. It would transform our society if the haves and have nots were to mix in their formative years in mutual activities that allowed all of them to shine and develop. This is what transformed Britain after WW2. The middle and upper classes were thrown together with the proletariat in the forces and in conscripted employment and were both shocked at the impoverishment and ignorance they encountered and impressed with and disgusted by the wasted talents and resources that the country had among the wider population and didn't appreciate or utilise. It was one of hte major reasons for the landslide Labour victory in 1945. And also because the army believed that Churchill wanted to carry on past Berlin and into Russia.
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 23:12:19 GMT
Nice one. Since when have you been Sunak's speechwriter?? Just love Cohen's songs. Dont think he was a very nice chap-but his music is sublime. Sounds like you have a similar relationship with Cohen as the one I have with Van Morrison. I love the man's music but find him a difficult man to like. From what I know of him, anyway. How can the man who wrote Tupelo Honey, for example, be the same boorish curmudgeon he often seems to be on his rare public appearances? A sad mystery for me because I really want to like the man in the same way that I adore his music.
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 23:18:25 GMT
Dave and lululemonoccasionallydoesbetter are both trying to outdo me in the polling orgasmics, I see
Typical West Ham fans.
Always in Villa's claret and blue shadow.
😁👍🏆
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,418
|
Post by pjw1961 on Jan 26, 2024 23:21:30 GMT
That grouping is now between 58 and 70 so it would appear that their views have changed little. For myself and most friends at the time (though I was slightly older than that range), Thatcher represented change. We were fed up of years of nip and tuck between Heath and Wilson with sometimes very little difference between them. This is similar to the situation now, where Starmer backs the government on many things. Perhaps Reform could actually make a breakthrough. Like UKIP, a lot of their support is from working class ex-Labour voters. You are keen on noting what you consider sub-par performances by Labour in local government by-elections so you might want to consider that Reform UK's record in parliamentary by-elections and the few local government elections they have chosen to contest has been uniformly dismal and well below their opinion poll ratings at the time. UKIP at its peak was dong much better in both types of election.
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 23:21:55 GMT
HSBC comments: “As things stand, we’re on a path of the world’s population to start shrinking before 2040, with developed markets already on a path to dramatic population decline over the course of the next few decades. This may, of course, change, if some of these factors turn around, but there’s nothing in the data to suggest that they will.”
If this is right, we will have to rethink just about everything. By the end of this century, far from continuing to climb, the world’s population will have halved. So the footprint humankind puts on the planet’s resources will be much lighter. That will be a huge relief, though it should not be allowed to blunt our efforts to lighten that footprint now.So let's stop worrying about immigration. Should solve the so-called housing crisis.
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 23:35:14 GMT
Its time for Starmer to say something about his defence policy. The gathering realisation that a Trump Presidency would expose Europe to a complete rethink about risk is discussed in this G article . www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/why-are-european-defence-leaders-talking-about-warI found two comments interesting:- *A proposal ( from the EPP) that EU should take over from NATO. I confidently predict that Macron will dust off his " Strategic Autonomy" before too long. * A suggestion that NATO-including as it does, UK & Turkey would "try to bed down and endure a Trump presidency as they did from 2016.". In 2016 Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine. ! * The latest US military aid package really might not get to Ukraine !! YouGov's "most important issues " tracker has "Defence & Security" at 12% with no discernible recent change. The public have yet to catch up on this. And/Or have more pressing issues day to day. "YouGov's "most important issues " tracker has "Defence & Security" at 12% with no discernible recent change" - It shouldn't matter whether the public are aware of it or not though now some are beginning that campaign. I very much doubt the public were aware of the increasing risk during the 1930s that Churchill was trying to warn people about. Not so sure about that. Don't forget Mosley and his Blackshirts. My mum remembered them having pitched battles with the communists on the local common. Richmal Crompton even satirised them in one of the 'Just William' books as the Blackshorts.
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 23:44:00 GMT
Concerning Reform taking tory votes, I don't understand why they don't question how Reform will be able to afford big tax cuts, while at the same time cutting NHS waiting lists to zero, reducing crime and nationalising 50% of Utilities Of course the tories need to attack Labour, but surely they could spend a little time attacking Reform? In fairness the media have also given Reform an easy ride with their completely undeliverable policies I wondered that too, but at this stage it doesn't matter. Reform's aim presumably at this GE is just to get a significant popular vote and build from there.
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 23:49:20 GMT
Colin has identified a possible serious external risk to EU and UK, If Trump wins, and abandons aid to Ukraine thus allowing a likely Russian Victory and consequently an emboldened Putin and Resurgent Nationalist Russia. If Trump were to Pull the US out of NATO some very swift recalculations, to say the least need to be made in European Capitals. With Regards to UK capabilities it is difficult to see where we get the money from for a significant upgrade When there are so many Problems in the Social fabric of the Country that need urgent attention after the next Election which at the moment one can assume Labour will win. I can see it going in two sharply different directions The Democrats win and a bit like 1997 Sir Keir inherits a gently improving stable Economy allowing for some proper Investment in Public services, On the other hand a trump win followed by an America first Policy, Economic instability and the necessity to spend much more on defence just when we can least afford it. If it were to be the latter emergency measures like re-joining the Single Market or customs union might be necessary ( if they will have us.) It's not the first time we have had to rely on Uncle Joe except this time ironically he is American not Russian! Biden isn't exactly pro-British either. He's one of those Yanks who have a great-great-great grandfather who was Irish and still resent the potato famine. But yes, he's less anti-NATO than Trump is. Trump does have a point though. Many NATO countries don't spend the required 2% of GDP on Defence so why should the USA defend them?
|
|
|
Post by mercian on Jan 27, 2024 0:02:29 GMT
For myself and most friends at the time (though I was slightly older than that range), Thatcher represented change. We were fed up of years of nip and tuck between Heath and Wilson with sometimes very little difference between them. This is similar to the situation now, where Starmer backs the government on many things. Perhaps Reform could actually make a breakthrough. Like UKIP, a lot of their support is from working class ex-Labour voters. You are keen on noting what you consider sub-par performances by Labour in local government by-elections so you might want to consider that Reform UK's record in parliamentary by-elections and the few local government elections they have chosen to contest has been uniformly dismal and well below their opinion poll ratings at the time. UKIP at its peak was dong much better in both types of election. I just think Reform might be gaining a little momentum that's all, and not all at Tories' expense.
|
|
|
Post by robbiealive on Jan 27, 2024 1:38:05 GMT
I raised the subject of Voter ID in its current incarnation & I wish I had not bothered: tho it's amusing to see the "voices of the people" scurrying around defending a dirty piece of legislation or muddying the waters. 1. It is an a priori that requiring voter ID will prevent some people from voting. It's a fact which some people cannot seem to grasp. 2. The only justification for such discrimination is that it solves a serious problem. It doesnt because no such problem exists. Why should anyone give a toss about EC pontification given (a) they cannot monitor the number of people who are discouraged from going near a polling station by Voter ID in the first instance, an unknown which may encompass the most serious discrimination inherent in Voter ID, & (b) the fact that the government ignores their recommendations! You may be right that Labour would keep the legislation in which case they would be listening to the EC when the Tories don't! & institutionalising Tory illogic: finding a solution to a problem that does not exist. I shall never mention the subject again. Calm down old chap. Other than our regular RoC posters nobody here thinks that the Conservative motivation for introducing this legislation was anything other than voter suppression, hence the rigging of what qualified as ID. My posts were all in response to colin posing specific questions and were, by the standards of this forum, a good-natured and harmless exchange of views. On the other hand I don't think voter ID is the end of civilisation as we know it - they have had it for years in Northern Ireland and turnout there remains somewhat higher than the UK average. My guess is that Labour will think it has higher priorities than reversing the measure and will just try to make it work more equitably. On the other hand, if they do extend the franchise to 16 and 17 year-olds (and maybe settled EU nationals who are already able to vote in local elections?) then some changes may get wrapped up in a wider electoral reform bill. I don't share your contempt for the Electoral Commission however. It is not their fault that the anti-democratic tendency in the Tory party is ignoring their recommendations. I rant because it's my hobby horse: we all have them, you included. This debate sums up what I most dislike about this site: its fatal fascination with bureaucratic proceduralism. A nasty piece of legislation comes into existence. But boy we have to take it seriously & endlessly discuss its demerits & (non-existent) merits. Then the bureaucratic momentum builds up. Oh & the EC (which the government completely ignores, so why shoudln;t Labour) hv said this & that we could improve it by tinkering, & oh & let's drag in northern Ireland, etc. My test for this is v simple. If Voter ID has any merit then & you & others would have suggested it. The fact that nobody did speaks volumes. You say: "Other than our regular ROC posters nobody here thinks that the Conservative motivation for introducing this legislation was anything other than voter suppression." yes I know that: then logically rather than temporising everyone here should be in favour not of improving the legislation but scrapping it. You say FPTP is unfair : what could be more unfair than stopping people voting. Of course if Labour gain office they have to prioritise: but it didnt take any time to create the legislation, so why should it take any longer to scrap it.
|
|
|
Post by robbiealive on Jan 27, 2024 1:53:07 GMT
1) I know that I would be concerned if my grandsons were conscripted. 2) If you would lower the voting age because it would benefit Labour isn't that a form of gerrymandering in itself? I don't see why voter id is. On the contrary it will prevent some election fraud, though not alas for postal votes. 1. There are no election frauds at polling stations to justify voter ID. End of story. 2. In every European country you can think of it is compulsory for those of voting age to have photo ID. It is a seamless process for people to use such ID when voting. In this country you may have noticed we don't have ID cards: hence requiring 2-3 mill people who don't have foto ID to produce such at voting stations is discriminatory. 3. The Tories know this and it seems a reasonable inference to conclude that they wish to restrict the voting of those persons less likely to vote Tory. But thank you for yr inexhaustible capacity to voice weary, unevidenced, and discredited ideas. ----------------------------------------------- And thank you for your usual patronising nonsense. You miscast yourself in your Dad's Army list. Pomposity was a Captain Mainwaring characteristic. [/quote] Capt Mainwaring is always characterised as pompous & Pooterish. In fact he was a v brave soul, always the first to be put himself in danger. You should be more respectful of decent, courageous men like Mainwaring. A true British patriot of the old school.
|
|
|
Post by isa on Jan 27, 2024 2:41:12 GMT
1. There are no election frauds at polling stations to justify voter ID. End of story. 2. In every European country you can think of it is compulsory for those of voting age to have photo ID. It is a seamless process for people to use such ID when voting. In this country you may have noticed we don't have ID cards: hence requiring 2-3 mill people who don't have foto ID to produce such at voting stations is discriminatory. 3. The Tories know this and it seems a reasonable inference to conclude that they wish to restrict the voting of those persons less likely to vote Tory. But thank you for yr inexhaustible capacity to voice weary, unevidenced, and discredited ideas. ----------------------------------------------- And thank you for your usual patronising nonsense. You miscast yourself in your Dad's Army list. Pomposity was a Captain Mainwaring characteristic. Capt Mainwaring is always characterised as pompous & Pooterish. In fact he was a v brave soul, always the first to be put himself in danger. You should be more respectful of decent, courageous men like Mainwaring. A true British patriot of the old school. [/quote] And what about an honourable mention for Private Godfrey? He was a conscientious objector in WW1, who was nevertheless awarded the Military Medal for his work as a stretcher bearer in the Battle of the Somme. In real life, the actor Arnold Ridley, who portrayed him, was himself severely wounded on the Somme. Now, that's a real bloody hero for you. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Godfrey
|
|
|
Post by guymonde on Jan 27, 2024 3:31:16 GMT
Just love Cohen's songs. Dont think he was a very nice chap-but his music is sublime. Sounds like you have a similar relationship with Cohen as the one I have with Van Morrison. I love the man's music but find him a difficult man to like. From what I know of him, anyway. How can the man who wrote Tupelo Honey, for example, be the same boorish curmudgeon he often seems to be on his rare public appearances? A sad mystery for me because I really want to like the man in the same way that I adore his music. Cohen was truly a genius, and I think a lovely human. I saw him once in the 1960s in Liverpool and several times in his final years, in London mainly and once in Bruges when he was 74. In a park on a rainy night with quite an intimate feel he was courteous, humble, warm, charismatic, showed respect and deference to his accompanists. The most memorable event I ever attended. He had an astonishing life which i found quite awesome though his poetry and novels were too dense for me. I love Van's music too, but saw him only once and wondered why i bothered (his feeling too, I think!) so I'm on line with Senor Batty
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,337
|
Post by steve on Jan 27, 2024 6:06:17 GMT
|
|
Dave
Member
... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
Posts: 818
|
Post by Dave on Jan 27, 2024 7:49:14 GMT
Dave and lululemonoccasionallydoesbetter are both trying to outdo me in the polling orgasmics, I see Typical West Ham fans. Always in Villa's claret and blue shadow. 😁👍🏆 Batty , sorry to tell you, but as the old song goes, there’s only one claret and blue ⚒ I keep meaning to be a little less footbally, (yes, that is an actual word!!!!) on here so when I saw that PP poll I just about managed to stop myself posting “you’re s*** and you know you are” 🙂 Anyway, I think that’s two YouGov’s and this PP one that show them on 20%. Have I missed any others? ISA makes a good point about what a 19% score could do for their morale. The other thing that it could do is bring their polling plight to the attention of a public who normally don’t give a monkey’s about it in the way that we on here do. Because I think a 19 would get a bit of media attention. And I wonder if there are people that whilst they know the Tories aren’t popular, aren’t aware of the full polling situation, and so think they still have a decent chance of being the next government. All of which added up means they still intend to vote for the party. Were the direness of their polling situation to be more widely known I wonder whether some of these voters just wouldn’t bother to vote at all, because what was the point? And I wonder whether others believing a Tory vote was now pointless would then consider that they had the freedom to vote for another party. In other words, could it get even worse for them? I fully acknowledge that could all be wishful thinking on my part or at least over-thinking it. 🙂
|
|
Dave
Member
... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
Posts: 818
|
Post by Dave on Jan 27, 2024 7:58:56 GMT
HSBC comments: “As things stand, we’re on a path of the world’s population to start shrinking before 2040, with developed markets already on a path to dramatic population decline over the course of the next few decades. This may, of course, change, if some of these factors turn around, but there’s nothing in the data to suggest that they will.”
If this is right, we will have to rethink just about everything. By the end of this century, far from continuing to climb, the world’s population will have halved. So the footprint humankind puts on the planet’s resources will be much lighter. That will be a huge relief, though it should not be allowed to blunt our efforts to lighten that footprint now.So let's stop worrying about immigration. Should solve the so-called housing crisis. So-called?
|
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 9,907
|
Post by Danny on Jan 27, 2024 8:08:17 GMT
To get to the level of seats many are forecasting you, would expect them to need to get at least 17/18 % share. If there share is around the 13% mark, it would require a level of efficiency/co-ordination of the ABT hitherto unseen to win 40-50 seats. i wonder though whether this 'tactical voting' is not quite such a reasoned process as it is portrayed. Support tends to be expressed as a national share, which falsely implies it is uniform, or ever was uniform. It works as an indicator because as it rises and falls whatever level it is at there will be some marginal seats about to change hands. Fpp only works at all because seats do not have equal distribution of voters. if they did we would always get 100% mps from the winning party, and very likely a revolution at the utter unfairness of it. So my point is that many possible new libs are disenchanted tories, who it seems tend to prefer the idea of a lib rather than a lab replacement. Its not so much their voting tactically for lib but that they honestly prefer lib to lab. And this switch is going to happen automatically in strong con areas of a certain type. Hence automatically concentrating new lib votes in those areas.
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jan 27, 2024 8:11:15 GMT
DaveI was thinking more along the lines of "No one likes us but we don't care" as a suitable terrace chant to describe the Tories current plight. Unfortunately for them, I can't see Sunak getting sacked in the morning though! In terms of the polls and your theory as to how they might get even worse for the Tories, there is, of course, as there always is, a counter narrative. It is often claimed that the British electorate baulk at the idea of granting parties landslide victories and that this may lead to some late rallying to the Tory cause. Not enough to save them from defeat but maybe enough to drag them into the low 30s. In other words, somewhat counter-intuituvely too I admit, maybe the worse the polls get for the Tories the bigger the eleventh hour rally to come. The DKs come home to mothership late in the day That said, I don't entirely discount your theory of an utter meltdown. The polls are deteriorating alarmingly for them.
|
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 9,907
|
Post by Danny on Jan 27, 2024 8:20:10 GMT
" If this is right, we will have to rethink just about everything. By the end of this century, far from continuing to climb, the world’s population will have halved. So the footprint humankind puts on the planet’s resources will be much lighter. That will be a huge relief, though it should not be allowed to blunt our efforts to lighten that footprint now.So let's stop worrying about immigration. The reasons for worrying about immigration are threefold. 1) not enough resources for the immigrants eg houses. We havnt solved thuis one and we would need the population to drop massively to do so. 2) the classic hatred of others of obviously different race. We just made that worse by leaving the EU so more of our immigrants are not whites of european stock. 3) As local births fall then aside from appearance more and more of the replacement people are mot only visibly different but culturally different. Its not just the appearance of the entire nation changing but also its attitudes to running society. The UK cannot simply allow in foreigners without inciting national unrest, which already caused brexit and here we are speculating how this will transfer to new far right parties. What we need is a national plan how the uk can prosper as its population falls.
|
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 9,907
|
Post by Danny on Jan 27, 2024 8:32:41 GMT
Should solve the so-called housing crisis. So-called? so-called perhaps because as a deliberate policy choice the goal was to create a housing shortage and force up prices making huge profits for predominantly conservative voters. Thats a strategy not a crisis and something to be encouraged not solved.(by con anyway) The flaw is that the majority of the population has been disadvantaged by this, but happily those are mostly people who either would nevet vote con anyway or just would never vote anyway. Lab however seem to have become supporters of this policy too because of how succesfully it has been sold by con to aspiring would be rich voters. Its a confidence trick as is slowly being recognised because the proportion benefitting keeps dwindling.
|
|
|
Post by pete on Jan 27, 2024 8:38:18 GMT
I remain opposed to compulsory ID. Firstly, it is a stick for the police / authorities to beat anyone they don't like the look of with. A copper stops someone and asks for ID, "sorry, I left it at home" wouldn't cut it, especially if the person being asked was being done so because the person doing the asking was in whatever way, acting, consiously or not, i a biased way. This would happen to already marginalised groups (just look at stop and search data), as well as, for example, people being stopped to prevent them attending a protest demonstration. Also, some people like to travel light in this world...no social media, no data-mining store cards, not even a library membership. More and more difficult in this digital world, yes. As to identity itself, most people have ID of some form, for example a birth certificate, something less likely to be stolen / used in fraud than what many people use as ID...what has changed is such things are no longer an accepted form of ID for those situations that require them. As to elections, yes, there are isolated cases of fraud, but, even the electoral commission states they are minimal. Compare that to the thousands that have already been turned off voting or were actually turned away at polling stations. The new voter ID rules are nothing short of vote-rigging...even Jacob Rees-Mogg admits that much. Think you're sorting of arguing against yourself here. Voter id means the Tories couldn't gerrymander. Also, voter id would help with immigration and could be policed fairly and easily in these days of modern technology.
|
|
|
Post by pete on Jan 27, 2024 8:45:31 GMT
I hope that the CPS are already looking at how much more evidence they need to prosecute the Directors and senior management of the Post Office for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300Paula Vennells can always become a voluntary Prison Chaplain. Cyber £10 bet nobody from senior PO positions ever goes to prison?
|
|
|
Post by pete on Jan 27, 2024 8:54:06 GMT
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Jan 27, 2024 8:54:55 GMT
Sounds like you have a similar relationship with Cohen as the one I have with Van Morrison. I love the man's music but find him a difficult man to like. From what I know of him, anyway. How can the man who wrote Tupelo Honey, for example, be the same boorish curmudgeon he often seems to be on his rare public appearances? A sad mystery for me because I really want to like the man in the same way that I adore his music. Cohen was truly a genius, and I think a lovely human. I saw him once in the 1960s in Liverpool and several times in his final years, in London mainly and once in Bruges when he was 74. In a park on a rainy night with quite an intimate feel he was courteous, humble, warm, charismatic, showed respect and deference to his accompanists. The most memorable event I ever attended. He had an astonishing life which i found quite awesome though his poetry and novels were too dense for me. I love Van's music too, but saw him only once and wondered why i bothered (his feeling too, I think!) so I'm on line with Senor Batty Interesting words about Cohen. I am a distant admirer who really hasn't ever gone into much depth with his work beyond liking some of his albums from the 1960s. I've not listened to much of his music since then nor read any of his written work. My loss probably. Van the Man is a different story with me altogether. Borderline reverential obsession, occasionally tested to destruction, like you, by attending some of his desultory live concert appearances. The creative muse probably deserted him many years ago, although some of his recent incursions into covers of old classics, especially jazz, early rock and roll and skiffle, have been decent and worth a listen. The muse may have gone, but what a muse it was when it burned brightly. What music he made and what a musician he was. Still love Van the Man the musican, despite it all.
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,337
|
Post by steve on Jan 27, 2024 9:03:42 GMT
One of the few things that the coalition did right was removing indefinite detention. In 2012 .
However neither the coalition or subsequent Tory governments applied this to those already sentenced under these orders.
There are still 3000 people in prison under indefinite sentences including people who are a decade past their release date of they had originally been given a determinate sentence.
It's a little discussed disgrace and contributes to the prison estate suicide crisis.
|
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 9,907
|
Post by Danny on Jan 27, 2024 9:04:47 GMT
. The third is to hope that AI frees up enough people from the workforce to take the jobs in health and social care. Obviously this will need us to look at care sector jobs in a different light and pay them accordingly. its funny how AI is now being touted as the reason we could all lose our jobs, when really this is a process of mechanisation dating all the way back to the luddites in the 1700s fearful at the invention of powered looms making them redundant. The real problem we have is living in a throwaway society where much is deliberately designed to break or be replaced. There is no overarching planning to reduce the need for manufacturing new and ensure recycling through continued use instead of destruction. And then we have to choose whether to have fewer airline pilots and tour guides and restaurant staff, fewer actors, so as to free up staff to provide care services. Its a political choice about priorities Those who argued britain would be a better place post brexit because we would end immigration had a point that ending immigration would bring this to a political crisis. Except the crisis was evaded because brexit did nothing of the sort, eu membership never having been the reason for immigration to the uk.
|
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,106
|
Post by domjg on Jan 27, 2024 9:08:39 GMT
DaveI was thinking more along the lines of "No one likes us but we don't care" as a suitable terrace chant to describe the Tories current plight. Unfortunately for them, I can't see Sunak getting sacked in the morning though! In terms of the polls and your theory as to how they might get even worse for the Tories, there is, of course, as there always is, a counter narrative. It is often claimed that the British electorate baulk at the idea of granting parties landslide victories and that this may lead to some late rallying to the Tory cause. Not enough to save them from defeat but maybe enough to drag them into the low 30s. In other words, somewhat counter-intuituvely too I admit, maybe the worse the polls get for the Tories the bigger the eleventh hour rally to come. The DKs come home to mothership late in the day That said, I don't entirely discount your theory of an utter meltdown. The polls are deteriorating alarmingly for them. I'd also be worried about complacency in both established and new Labour voters if a media narrative begins to take root that the tories are nailed on for complete destruction. If they decide it's already decided and don't need to bother turning out it could be dangerous.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2024 9:14:58 GMT
Just love Cohen's songs. Dont think he was a very nice chap-but his music is sublime. Sounds like you have a similar relationship with Cohen as the one I have with Van Morrison. I love the man's music but find him a difficult man to like. From what I know of him, anyway. How can the man who wrote Tupelo Honey, for example, be the same boorish curmudgeon he often seems to be on his rare public appearances? A sad mystery for me because I really want to like the man in the same way that I adore his music. Know what you mean about VM. I really like his music. Went to see him at Battle Abbey years ago. He flew in, mumble d for a while on stage then flew out again. But of a rip off really.
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,085
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Jan 27, 2024 9:17:14 GMT
Listening to this articulate young woman talking about political indoctrination and banning books is inspiring The person who tweeted it and the replies not so much
|
|
|
Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 27, 2024 9:19:34 GMT
Dave I was thinking more along the lines of "No one likes us but we don't care" as a suitable terrace chant to describe the Tories current plight. Unfortunately for them, I can't see Sunak getting sacked in the morning though! In terms of the polls and your theory as to how they might get even worse for the Tories, there is, of course, as there always is, a counter narrative. It is often claimed that the British electorate baulk at the idea of granting parties landslide victories and that this may lead to some late rallying to the Tory cause. Not enough to save them from defeat but maybe enough to drag them into the low 30s. In other words, somewhat counter-intuituvely too I admit, maybe the worse the polls get for the Tories the bigger the eleventh hour rally to come. The DKs come home to mothership late in the day That said, I don't entirely discount your theory of an utter meltdown. The polls are deteriorating alarmingly for them. I'd also be worried about complacency in both established and new Labour voters if a media narrative begins to take root that the tories are nailed on for complete destruction. If they decide it's already decided and don't need to bother turning out it could be dangerous. What's needed is a subtle campaign suggesting that every vote's needed to administer the coup de gras. I suspect there's a massive number of voters who could be motivated to really punish the Tories after the last 14 years.
|
|