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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 16:59:51 GMT
colin For some reason my response to your post has become embedded in yours. Apologies. Keyboard malfunction! No worries-got the message Got Leonard Cohen in my ear now - "I forget to pray for the angels and then the angels forget to pray for us."
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 17:08:11 GMT
colin For some reason my response to your post has become embedded in yours. Apologies. Keyboard malfunction! No worries-got the message Got Leonard Cohen in my ear now - "I forget to pray for the angels and then the angels forget to pray for us." Well, like a drunk in a midnight choir, I have tried, in my way, to be free!
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Post by barbara on Jan 26, 2024 17:14:20 GMT
No worries-got the message Got Leonard Cohen in my ear now - "I forget to pray for the angels and then the angels forget to pray for us." Well, like a drunk in a midnight choir, I have tried, in my way, to be free! And remember, the rich have got their channels in the bedrooms of the poor!
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 17:18:51 GMT
People's polling keeping with the trend
Westminster Voting Intention:
LAB: 45% (=) CON: 20% (-3) RFM: 12% (+2) LDM: 10% (=) GRN: 9% (+3)
Via @peoplepolling , 25 Jan. Changes w/ 28 Dec.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 26, 2024 17:22:24 GMT
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 17:28:32 GMT
Labour leads in the latest Westminster polling, by pollster
27 YouGov 25 PeoplePolling 25 WeThink 23 Redfield & Wilton 20 Techne 16 Deltapoll 15 More In Common 14 Savanta 14 Opinium
Works out on average a 20 point Labour lead
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 26, 2024 17:37:25 GMT
People's polling keeping with the trend Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 45% (=) CON: 20% (-3) RFM: 12% (+2) LDM: 10% (=) GRN: 9% (+3) Via @peoplepolling , 25 Jan. Changes w/ 28 Dec. What is very apparent is that all the regular pollsters, with the exception of Opinium and WeThink, have Labour in a narrow range between 44 and 45% on average. The difference in leads comes from the Tory vote which is just over 20% on average for some pollsters (like YouGov) but around 27% for others (like Savanta, which has shown quite small changes in VI over the last 15 months).
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 17:40:56 GMT
Concerning Reform taking tory votes, I don't understand why they don't question how Reform will be able to afford big tax cuts, while at the same time cutting NHS waiting lists to zero, reducing crime and nationalising 50% of Utilities
Of course the tories need to attack Labour, but surely they could spend a little time attacking Reform?
In fairness the media have also given Reform an easy ride with their completely undeliverable policies
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 18:21:56 GMT
Tories polling just 1% above the aftermath of the Truss disaater budget
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 18:27:57 GMT
No worries-got the message Got Leonard Cohen in my ear now - "I forget to pray for the angels and then the angels forget to pray for us." Well, like a drunk in a midnight choir, I have tried, in my way, to be free! Everybody knows that the dice are loaded Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed Everybody knows the war is over Everybody knows the good guys lost Everybody knows the fight was fixed The poor stay poor, the rich get rich That's how it goes Everybody knows Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied Everybody got this broken feeling Like their father or their dog just died
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mark61
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Post by mark61 on Jan 26, 2024 18:30:40 GMT
Colin has identified a possible serious external risk to EU and UK, If Trump wins, and abandons aid to Ukraine thus allowing a likely Russian Victory and consequently an emboldened Putin and Resurgent Nationalist Russia. If Trump were to Pull the US out of NATO some very swift recalculations, to say the least need to be made in European Capitals.
With Regards to UK capabilities it is difficult to see where we get the money from for a significant upgrade When there are so many Problems in the Social fabric of the Country that need urgent attention after the next Election which at the moment one can assume Labour will win. I can see it going in two sharply different directions The Democrats win and a bit like 1997 Sir Keir inherits a gently improving stable Economy allowing for some proper Investment in Public services, On the other hand a trump win followed by an America first Policy, Economic instability and the necessity to spend much more on defence just when we can least afford it. If it were to be the latter emergency measures like re-joining the Single Market or customs union might be necessary ( if they will have us.)
It's not the first time we have had to rely on Uncle Joe except this time ironically he is American not Russian!
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jan 26, 2024 18:57:40 GMT
I'm on the side of the angels. Always will be. No other way,in my view. Well who isnt ? They are peaceful folk aren't they ? But will they put in an appearance ? Have you ever seen one ? ps- Sanchez is fighting the good fight by pardoning politicians who want to break his country up.Tusk is definitely good news. Latest FoN poll on Scots indy -
"Should Scotland be an independent Country?
Yes: 43.4%
No: 39.2%
I don’t know: 10.8%
Prefer not to say: 6.6%"
Do you want to criminalise all those of us who want to break your country up - or just the politicians we elect on that basis?
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 18:58:12 GMT
Well, like a drunk in a midnight choir, I have tried, in my way, to be free! Everybody knows that the dice are loaded Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed Everybody knows the war is over Everybody knows the good guys lost Everybody knows the fight was fixed The poor stay poor, the rich get rich That's how it goes Everybody knows Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied Everybody got this broken feeling Like their father or their dog just died Nice one. Since when have you been Sunak's speechwriter??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 19:08:47 GMT
For the sake of my children, and theirs to come too, I renounce the raining on their parade and sour accusations that optimism and hope is complacency and the future is the devil's.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 26, 2024 19:11:53 GMT
Colin has identified a possible serious external risk to EU and UK, If Trump wins, and abandons aid to Ukraine thus allowing a likely Russian Victory and consequently an emboldened Putin and Resurgent Nationalist Russia. If Trump were to Pull the US out of NATO some very swift recalculations, to say the least need to be made in European Capitals. With Regards to UK capabilities it is difficult to see where we get the money from for a significant upgrade When there are so many Problems in the Social fabric of the Country that need urgent attention after the next Election which at the moment one can assume Labour will win. I can see it going in two sharply different directions The Democrats win and a bit like 1997 Sir Keir inherits a gently improving stable Economy allowing for some proper Investment in Public services, On the other hand a trump win followed by an America first Policy, Economic instability and the necessity to spend much more on defence just when we can least afford it. If it were to be the latter emergency measures like re-joining the Single Market or customs union might be necessary ( if they will have us.) It's not the first time we have had to rely on Uncle Joe except this time ironically he is American not Russian! Nobody is saying that worst case scenarios can't and won't happen, but I'd be utterly staggered if the assembled brains trusts and strategists in the White House, NATO, EU and Downing Street aren't war-gaming them all. Starmer and his leadership team too. We can all get down on our politicians, military and intelligent services, and our institutions and alliances too, and imagine ineptitude and incompetence wherever we look But the devils haven't always got the best tunes, nor all the brilliant ideas and endless resources too. We should be wary, ever vigilant and alert, but conscious that we might have advantages and strengths too. They've held us in remarkably good stead up to now and we should play to them and reinforce them. Colin often makes a point about the paucity of real leadership and statesmanship in the West, but Xi and Putin are vulnerable and deeply flawed figures with domestic and regional problems all of their own. We shouldn't beat up on ourselves all the time.
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mark61
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Post by mark61 on Jan 26, 2024 19:39:09 GMT
I hope you are right Crossbat, I wouldn't rely to much in the Brains trust in Downing St. however! I am surprised that after Trump's sponsored insurrection that the Institutions In The US have not made swifter progress in effectively disqualifying him from standing for President again. Maybe the Institutions are now sclerotic and not Protecting the Republic in the way they might have done previously.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2024 20:30:23 GMT
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed Everybody knows the war is over Everybody knows the good guys lost Everybody knows the fight was fixed The poor stay poor, the rich get rich That's how it goes Everybody knows Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied Everybody got this broken feeling Like their father or their dog just died Nice one. Since when have you been Sunak's speechwriter?? Just love Cohen's songs. Dont think he was a very nice chap-but his music is sublime.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 26, 2024 20:37:09 GMT
People's polling keeping with the trend Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 45% (=) CON: 20% (-3) RFM: 12% (+2) LDM: 10% (=) GRN: 9% (+3) Via @peoplepolling , 25 Jan. Changes w/ 28 Dec. Tories on 20. Again. Loving it and I think we can all agree that People Polling are always spot on. They. Are.THE. Best!!!!! And Kalvin Phillips has signed for the champions of Europe. Any more good news and I just might explode with happiness.
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Jan 26, 2024 20:38:23 GMT
Labour leads in the latest Westminster polling, by pollster 27 YouGov 25 PeoplePolling 25 WeThink 23 Redfield & Wilton 20 Techne 16 Deltapoll 15 More In Common 14 Savanta 14 Opinium Works out on average a 20 point Labour lead No, stop Neil. I am warning you now - I absolutely will explode with sheer delight.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 26, 2024 20:39:09 GMT
Tories polling just 1% above the aftermath of the Truss disaater budget Uh oh ……….. Ka-booooooooooooommmmmm!!!
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 26, 2024 20:44:10 GMT
Colin has identified a possible serious external risk to EU and UK, If Trump wins, and abandons aid to Ukraine thus allowing a likely Russian Victory and consequently an emboldened Putin and Resurgent Nationalist Russia. If Trump were to Pull the US out of NATO some very swift recalculations, to say the least need to be made in European Capitals. With Regards to UK capabilities it is difficult to see where we get the money from for a significant upgrade When there are so many Problems in the Social fabric of the Country that need urgent attention after the next Election which at the moment one can assume Labour will win. I can see it going in two sharply different directions The Democrats win and a bit like 1997 Sir Keir inherits a gently improving stable Economy allowing for some proper Investment in Public services, On the other hand a trump win followed by an America first Policy, Economic instability and the necessity to spend much more on defence just when we can least afford it. If it were to be the latter emergency measures like re-joining the Single Market or customs union might be necessary ( if they will have us.) It's not the first time we have had to rely on Uncle Joe except this time ironically he is American not Russian! Nobody is saying that worst case scenarios can't and won't happen, but I'd be utterly staggered if the assembled brains trusts and strategists in the White House, NATO, EU and Downing Street aren't war-gaming them all. Starmer and his leadership team too. We can all get down on our politicians, military and intelligent services, and our institutions and alliances too, and imagine ineptitude and incompetence wherever we look But the devils haven't always got the best tunes, nor all the brilliant ideas and endless resources too. We should be wary, ever vigilant and alert, but conscious that we might have advantages and strengths too. They've held us in remarkably good stead up to now and we should play to them and reinforce them. Colin often makes a point about the paucity of real leadership and statesmanship in the West, but Xi and Putin are vulnerable and deeply flawed figures with domestic and regional problems all of their own. We shouldn't beat up on ourselves all the time. I agree re the Americans but I honestly find it hard to imagine 'Downing St' war-gaming a game of marbles.
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Post by EmCat on Jan 26, 2024 20:52:42 GMT
Concerning Reform taking tory votes, I don't understand why they don't question how Reform will be able to afford big tax cuts, while at the same time cutting NHS waiting lists to zero, reducing crime and nationalising 50% of Utilities Of course the tories need to attack Labour, but surely they could spend a little time attacking Reform?
In fairness the media have also given Reform an easy ride with their completely undeliverable policies Perhaps they fear that, when pushed, Reform would reply "well, we've taken your plans and enhanced them" If the Tories push Reform too hard for answers, then the public will turn away from both as both parties represent unachievable aims
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jan 26, 2024 20:56:05 GMT
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 26, 2024 21:04:51 GMT
For an incoming Labour government one option would be to remove the need for ID for voting and revert to the prior position. I have a feeling they won't do this and will instead seek to implement the EC recommendations above, including widening the permissible ID. I raised the subject of Voter ID in its current incarnation & I wish I had not bothered: tho it's amusing to see the "voices of the people" scurrying around defending a dirty piece of legislation or muddying the waters. 1. It is an a priori that requiring voter ID will prevent some people from voting. It's a fact which some people cannot seem to grasp. 2. The only justification for such discrimination is that it solves a serious problem. It doesnt because no such problem exists. Why should anyone give a toss about EC pontification given (a) they cannot monitor the number of people who are discouraged from going near a polling station by Voter ID in the first instance, an unknown which may encompass the most serious discrimination inherent in Voter ID, & (b) the fact that the government ignores their recommendations! You may be right that Labour would keep the legislation in which case they would be listening to the EC when the Tories don't! & institutionalising Tory illogic: finding a solution to a problem that does not exist. I shall never mention the subject again. Calm down old chap. Other than our regular RoC posters nobody here thinks that the Conservative motivation for introducing this legislation was anything other than voter suppression, hence the rigging of what qualified as ID. My posts were all in response to colin posing specific questions and were, by the standards of this forum, a good-natured and harmless exchange of views. On the other hand I don't think voter ID is the end of civilisation as we know it - they have had it for years in Northern Ireland and turnout there remains somewhat higher than the UK average. My guess is that Labour will think it has higher priorities than reversing the measure and will just try to make it work more equitably. On the other hand, if they do extend the franchise to 16 and 17 year-olds (and maybe settled EU nationals who are already able to vote in local elections?) then some changes may get wrapped up in a wider electoral reform bill. I don't share your contempt for the Electoral Commission however. It is not their fault that the anti-democratic tendency in the Tory party is ignoring their recommendations.
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Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 22:23:57 GMT
[quoomte source="/post/117345/thread" timestamp="1706226917" author=" robbiealive "]I would give the vote to 16-18s - no ref just a act -- as it would benefit Labour & counter the Tory gerrymandering with voter ID. 1) I know that I would be concerned if my grandsons were conscripted. 2) If you would lower the voting age because it would benefit Labour isn't that a form of gerrymandering in itself? I don't see why voter id is. On the contrary it will prevent some election fraud, though not alas for postal votes. 1. There are no election frauds at polling stations to justify voter ID. End of story. 2. In every European country you can think of it is compulsory for those of voting age to have photo ID. It is a seamless process for people to use such ID when voting. In this country you may have noticed we don't have ID cards: hence requiring 2-3 mill people who don't have foto ID to produce such at voting stations is discriminatory. 3. The Tories know this and it seems a reasonable inference to conclude that they wish to restrict the voting of those persons less likely to vote Tory. But thank you for yr inexhaustible capacity to voice weary, unevidenced, and discredited ideas. [/quote] ----------------------------------------------- And thank you for your usual patronising nonsense. You miscast yourself in your Dad's Army list. Pomposity was a Captain Mainwaring characteristic.
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Post by isa on Jan 26, 2024 22:31:24 GMT
People's polling keeping with the trend Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 45% (=) CON: 20% (-3) RFM: 12% (+2) LDM: 10% (=) GRN: 9% (+3) Via @peoplepolling , 25 Jan. Changes w/ 28 Dec. Tories on 20. Again. Loving it and I think we can all agree that People Polling are always spot on. They. Are.THE. Best!!!!! And Kalvin Phillips has signed for the champions of Europe. Any more good news and I just might explode with happiness. Absolutely. I reckon that's three, if not four, in recent days. Extremely demoralising for CON. Just imagine the psychological effect a 19% might have on them. Stranger things have happened.
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Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 22:38:24 GMT
Quite a turnaround too within my lifetime. A majority of the 18-25 age group voted for Thatcher in 1979 and 1983! It wasn't ever thus in other words. That grouping is now between 58 and 70 so it would appear that their views have changed little. For myself and most friends at the time (though I was slightly older than that range), Thatcher represented change. We were fed up of years of nip and tuck between Heath and Wilson with sometimes very little difference between them. This is similar to the situation now, where Starmer backs the government on many things. Perhaps Reform could actually make a breakthrough. Like UKIP, a lot of their support is from working class ex-Labour voters.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 26, 2024 22:48:02 GMT
So the rapist has been fined $83 million in punitive damages for his continuing defamation of his rape victim E Jean Carroll. The tantrum on legs won't be able to control himself and will continue daily to defame her publicly. As early as next Monday it's highly likely that Carroll's legal team will file for injunctive relief or a restraining order.
When not if the traitor breaches it he's in a whole shed load of cack , because unlike the original civil cases breaching a restraining order is covered by the criminal code. In the most egregious cases and this would be such a situation this carries a penalty of up to five years in prison.
It would be hilarious if the first case where the traitor ends up incarcerated was about his total inability to stop lying.
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Post by mercian on Jan 26, 2024 22:58:29 GMT
Ah-I see you mentioned the unmentionable -with predictable response. Fear not-there's always another opinion in a democracy Like this one eg thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-voter-id/I get the impression sometimes that this argument revolves around the proposition that there is a group of people in this country who would be so seriously rendered underprivileged & disenfranchised by an ID system of the sort practiced routinely in many other countries , that it can never be contemplated here. Isn't that the issue which should really be examined ? I think you're missing the point. Many of the people who fear the voter disenfranchisement effects of mandatory ID requirements at polling stations,do so on the basis not of principled opposition to personal ID as such but because to introduce the requirement now, in our less than universally applied ID availability world, excludes a large number of people and prevents them voting. I favour personal ID cards for a variety of reasons, not least proof of voting eligibility. I think it's a fairly non-intrusive part of citizenship, to be honest, and has a multitude of benefits and uses. I think a lot of libertarians on the right oppose it and they fought hard against Blair when he briefly proposed the introduction of personal ID cards. I've still got my ID card issued after the war by Labour. I think it was to do with rationing, though I was too young to know. I'd have no problem with a modern one. The only people who would be disadvantaged would be those who want to live off the grid or under the radar. In the proposed system there is a way for those without photo id to apply for one.
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Post by isa on Jan 26, 2024 23:00:55 GMT
Apparently, some wag described the famously tall Sir Simon Clarke's failed attempt to bring down Sunak as 'the Knife of the Long Knight'.
Now, that's wit.
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