steve
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Post by steve on Jan 24, 2024 12:00:51 GMT
Comedy gold from Jo Coburn , despite a 20% lead over the Tories it's not a done deal because some people don't know how they will vote!Obviously they're all going to vote tory!
Yet again we have a representative of the far right shadow funded institute of economic affairs being given air time on our public service broadcaster. You'd have thought they might have been attempting to change their ways pending their Tory chums getting the boot.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 24, 2024 12:06:02 GMT
On this empirical basis I never make predictions, except of course about the past. Sorry Robbie but is that you predicting that you'll never make predictions Robbie's got the Gazza syndrome. robbiealiveYou'll have to bear with me on the Wilson biography, I'm afraid. I'm reading a page a night so I can fully absorb the meaning of what I've read. The book is over 500 pages old! patrickbrianI take your point about Danny and will desist. I'd like to think my very occasional references to him are much more inoffensive mockery of some of his more outlandish comments and observations rather than bullying. He has a right of reply, and often does. In his defence he usually does so politely and seriously. However, I think some of his comments, and I admit I only rarely read his posts, are pretty offensive and borderline shocking. Whether that's his intention, I don't know. His comments on euthenasia, genetics, sexual behaviour, virology etc But each to his own and I won't take the piss again.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 24, 2024 12:25:42 GMT
An interesting article in New Statesman on why it might not be a good idea to call David Cameron to the Bar of the House of Commons to answer questions. www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2024/01/david-cameron-questions-commons As the New Statesman revealed last week, the report out today suggests Cameron be called to the Bar of the House, an arcane mechanism whereby he stands (or sits on a chair as the Duke of Wellington did in 1814) behind the white line in the Commons chamber opposite the Speaker’s chair, and take questions from MPs. Freddie Hayward makes the point that this would legitimise Governments appointing Peers to senior Cabinet positions as it would remove the argument that they are not accountable to MPs. Indeed, even the Prime Minister could be a Peer (although Hayward does not take this logical next step). Arguably, it makes Lords Reform even more essential.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 12:31:44 GMT
" voters who have long been ignored and patronised are on the march.A political earthquake is about to rock Europe. Millions of Europeans are saying, ‘We’ve had enough, we no longer trust these tired, entitled mainstream political parties’,” Prof Frank Furedi, director of the MMC think tank in Brussels, To put the quote in context, would that be the Frank Furedi who was founder of the Revolutionary Communist Party ( an organisation that had much the same relationship to Communism as the National Socialist German Workers' Party had with Socialism). Which morphed into Living Marxism until its demise at the hands of the libel lawyers, having accused ITN of fabricating reports of atrocities carried out in Bosnia, and now exists as Spiked magazine ?
To slightly misquote Mandy Rice-Davies ... well he would say that wouldn't he.
Ah-yes he would. Thanks !
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Post by mark61 on Jan 24, 2024 12:37:20 GMT
Lakeland lass, you've nailed the RCP. I remember them during my time at Warwick University, leading light Ms. Claire Fox, enough said.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 12:44:32 GMT
jib You display your ignorance again.This time on U.S. Politics. Just because the networks have scheduled debates doesn't mean they have to happen it's up to the candidates. Debates scheduled by CNN before the New Hampshire primary were cancelled as neither candidate chose to participate. But sad really - given how bleedin’ obvious that is.
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Post by eor on Jan 24, 2024 12:45:14 GMT
New Hampshire has been called by the networks; Trump will win the Republican primary, and Biden will win the Democratic primary in a landslide (despite not even being on the ballot!) For a call this early on the Republican side, despite potentially record turnout overall and record participation of independents, it suggests the margin is unlikely to be close enough to give Haley a chance of continuing in the race.So from here it seems there are only two obstacles to a Biden v Trump general election in November, the Supreme Court and the Grim Reaper. Who have very similar dress-sense, come to think about it. I have never doubted that Trump will be the nominee, but I assume Haley will stay in until South Carolina, which is next, as she was governor there. When Trump wins that she will withdraw. I suspect Haley will give it a few days to see if the NH result starts to move her polling in South Carolina. She's not likely to stay in if she's looking at a Rubio-style thrashing at home - at 52 she'll likely be thinking about whether there's a second go at this in the future, and being forced from the race after being heavily beaten in her home state won't be the memory she'll want to leave.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 24, 2024 12:52:01 GMT
Sorry Robbie but is that you predicting that you'll never make predictions Robbie's got the Gazza syndrome. robbiealive You'll have to bear with me on the Wilson biography, I'm afraid. I'm reading a page a night so I can fully absorb the meaning of what I've read. The book is over 500 pages old! patrickbrian I take your point about Danny and will desist. I'd like to think my very occasional references to him are much more inoffensive mockery of some of his more outlandish comments and observations rather than bullying. He has a right of reply, and often does. In his defence he usually does so politely and seriously. However, I think some of his comments, and I admit I only rarely read his posts, are pretty offensive and borderline shocking. Whether that's his intention, I don't know. His comments on euthenasia, genetics, sexual behaviour, virology etc But each to his own and I won't take the piss again. Oooh everybody, CB's had the slipper. We have a new headmaster on the block.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 24, 2024 13:02:38 GMT
Can't share all this venom and lust for vengeance against the Lib Dems on the Left. Sounds and feels too much like Far Left troping for me. Feel my righteous anger comrades exhibitionism. The Lib Dems back then were duped by Cameron and probably led by a cadre of closet Tories or, if I'm being generous, a group of managerial politicians who fancied some rides in limousines and the frisson of power and red boxes. Human frailties. Chequers is nice midsummer too, I'm told. Politics is a glorified board game of subterfuge, sleight of hand, chicanery and deception. You sometimes make a wrong move, get bitten, cash in you chips and go back to the start. Or jail sometimes. The Lib Dems have done that and are now back in full anti Tory mode again. Beating Tories all over the place. That'll do for me. Plenty of assists so my team can score goals. 2010-15 is 9 years ago now. The players who played that game have gone. New team, new game different ball park. I couldn't give the merest toss about the Tory/Lib Dem Coalition now. It's sins were probably overhyped anyway. Expediency always triumphs in the end in politics. Long memories are an encumbrance in politics. Short ones are essential. "a group of managerial politicians who fancied some rides in limousines and the frisson of power and red boxes" - This plus bucket loads of naivety I suspect. Lambs to the slaughter. Can't absolve them of responsibility though and no great love for them per se but they are a very useful tool in the box for the main task of the day which is putting tories at threat in their heartlands. A screw head perfectly shaped for undoing previously apparently untouchable southern, tory seats. With that in prospect holding a fourteen year old grudge against them seems a bit self-defeating. Genuinely puzzled by the 'naivety' argument. Maybe over things like electoral reform, but on the cutting of the state that was right in line with the prevailing Lib Dem ideology of the time. Are people not aware of the ideological shift Clegg carried out after the coup against Kennedy? It is notable that every author of the Orange Book, advocating classical liberal principles on the economy, who was available, served as a minister in the coalition government. As I recall a journalist at the time saying - a group of economically liberal Liberal Democrats met a socially liberal Conservative leadership and found they had a lot in common. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_BookI genuinely have no idea where the Lib Dems now stand on orange book ideas, but in 2010 they were certainly a right of centre party.
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Post by mercian on Jan 24, 2024 13:05:39 GMT
Nick Clegg, no longer a mp and as far as I am aware no longer even a member defends his time in the coalition but since 2015 there have been a plethora of liberal democrats who have apologised.For example Jo Swinson in 2018 called on the party to "own the failures" of the party's time in government, while Clegg the former deputy prime minister said he "emphatically" believed he made the right decisions in office. Surely you haven't forgotten this 🤣: www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 13:10:26 GMT
Ban Facebook and within a matter of weeks I reckon the number of voters who have supposedly 'had enough' of 'not being listened to' (funnily enough the ones who are actually struggling in a part of the world wealthier and safer than any other tend to be quieter and just get on with it as they don't have time to shout their mouths of) would drop off dramatically. I'd be seriously in favour of that as I think FB genuinely endangers societal cohesion. It's one of the key weapons, if not the key weapon the Russians use against us and I know that it orchestrates a lot of the far right wing nonsense that goes on in eastern Germany. Two or three years ago a twenty something work colleague of mine (a well educated, well spoken young chap) showed me the facebook activity of his own grandfather. It was a cesspit of nastiness and racism with old people trading comments in a seeming arms race to be the most offensive and anti liberal. Not nice. Your complacency really staggers me. And your ready resort to censorship .
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Post by eor on Jan 24, 2024 13:10:50 GMT
eor - yes, the Iowa weather could have played a role. New Hampshire turnout looks just a little down on 2016. Much closer result than some predicted though. alec not sure if there are different turnout calculations happening but NYT are confirming the local officials I was referring to last night as the turnout being a record high? www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/politics/new-hampshire-primary-voter-turnout.htmlThe detail will be interesting when final numbers are available- if as speculated last night this was driven by unusually high participation of independents (in the absence of a meaningful Dem primary) then it's likely the modelling was wrong for the last primary polls and they focused too much on registered Republicans. Whether that in turn would reflect likely differential turnout in November, or whether these people are already reflected in national VI will then be another key question.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 13:12:36 GMT
crossbat11 “ patrickbrian I take your point about Danny and will desist. I'd like to think my very occasional references to him are much more inoffensive mockery of some of his more outlandish comments and observations rather than bullying. He has a right of reply, and often does. In his defence he usually does so politely and seriously. However, I think some of his comments, and I admit I only rarely read his posts, are pretty offensive and borderline shocking. Whether that's his intention, I don't know. His comments on euthenasia, genetics, sexual behaviour, virology etc But each to his own and I won't take the piss again.” ———————————————————————————————————- Wotta weed.
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patrickbrian
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Post by patrickbrian on Jan 24, 2024 13:20:49 GMT
Crossbat
Thanks
Personally I think it takes some courage to express unpopular opinions, and sometimes Danny's comments make me think. I think there's a place for controversialists on the site. I even miss Trevor's unforgettable prose style sometimes!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 13:24:45 GMT
Danny Finkelstein stood for the SDP in Kenton West ward in the 1986 council elections and in Brent East in the 1987 Parliamentary Election. He was long a confidante of David Owen and did not join the Liberal Democrats after the merger. Since then he has made that rightward swing so common amongst LOC politicians as they get older. He is now a Tory Peer (Baron Finkelstein of Pinner in the London Borough of Harrow). Yes thanks. He has always seemed a pretty middle of the road chap to me. I'm not surprised that he would like Starmer to govern from the centre ( ish) What amuses me is those commentators who cheer on a Lab VI lead , but dislike any suggestion that the LP has appealed to Tory voters ! Here's a thought. Is there a political position which isn't "Tory Lite" or "Labour Lite" , but approximating to common sense and fairness which lots of people will vote for ? Actually with what might happen with POTUS and the prospective trend in EU politics, Starmers actual stance on things is going to quite important -in an increasingly scary world. So I think it is absolutely relevant to speculate on what it will be. He told the increasingly embattled Sunak today " I have changed my Party". Millions of voters are trying to understand what he has changed it into. And whether LP diehards like it or not-most of them were Tory voters.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 24, 2024 13:39:58 GMT
crossbat11 “ patrickbrian I take your point about Danny and will desist. I'd like to think my very occasional references to him are much more inoffensive mockery of some of his more outlandish comments and observations rather than bullying. He has a right of reply, and often does. In his defence he usually does so politely and seriously. However, I think some of his comments, and I admit I only rarely read his posts, are pretty offensive and borderline shocking. Whether that's his intention, I don't know. His comments on euthenasia, genetics, sexual behaviour, virology etc But each to his own and I won't take the piss again.” Who rattled your cage, hey? Do you want to have some of what Danny got, hey? Who ya calling a weed anyway?? Danny always runnin', Trevor runnin too..... I'll see you on the Personal Message board. We need to have this out, mate ———————————————————————————————————- Wotta weed.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 24, 2024 13:41:24 GMT
Crossbat Thanks Personally I think it takes some courage to express unpopular opinions, and sometimes Danny's comments make me think. I think there's a place for controversialists on the site. I even miss Trevor's unforgettable prose style sometimes! I was with you until you mentioned Trevor, Patrick! 🤔😫🤣
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 24, 2024 13:44:00 GMT
Robbie's got the Gazza syndrome. robbiealive You'll have to bear with me on the Wilson biography, I'm afraid. I'm reading a page a night so I can fully absorb the meaning of what I've read. The book is over 500 pages old! patrickbrian I take your point about Danny and will desist. I'd like to think my very occasional references to him are much more inoffensive mockery of some of his more outlandish comments and observations rather than bullying. He has a right of reply, and often does. In his defence he usually does so politely and seriously. However, I think some of his comments, and I admit I only rarely read his posts, are pretty offensive and borderline shocking. Whether that's his intention, I don't know. His comments on euthenasia, genetics, sexual behaviour, virology etc But each to his own and I won't take the piss again. Oooh everybody, CB's had the slipper. We have a new headmaster on the block. I had a copy of Harold Wilson's biography down the back of my trousers when the slipper was wielded, sda. Didn't feel a thing. 😁
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 24, 2024 13:53:44 GMT
Ban Facebook and within a matter of weeks I reckon the number of voters who have supposedly 'had enough' of 'not being listened to' (funnily enough the ones who are actually struggling in a part of the world wealthier and safer than any other tend to be quieter and just get on with it as they don't have time to shout their mouths of) would drop off dramatically. I'd be seriously in favour of that as I think FB genuinely endangers societal cohesion. It's one of the key weapons, if not the key weapon the Russians use against us and I know that it orchestrates a lot of the far right wing nonsense that goes on in eastern Germany. Two or three years ago a twenty something work colleague of mine (a well educated, well spoken young chap) showed me the facebook activity of his own grandfather. It was a cesspit of nastiness and racism with old people trading comments in a seeming arms race to be the most offensive and anti liberal. Not nice. Your complacency really staggers me. And your ready resort to censorship . I just think that there are an awful lot of people out there who 'doth protest too much', in large part fuelled by social media and a large number of deserving people who do need policy attention from whom you hear not a pip. It's hardly censorship if you're banning a platform that in theory carries all sorts of messages is it? Unless Facebook and other platforms are better regulated (which isn't going to happen) then they should be controlled in the same way as broadcasting is, by the state. Social media creates silos and fake news that are very dangerous to societal cohesion, surely that's not in doubt? A lot of the populist spasms of the last few years are, I'm sure, directly attributable to it. Why give the Russians a free an easy way to undermine us for example?
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 24, 2024 14:03:06 GMT
Oooh everybody, CB's had the slipper. We have a new headmaster on the block. I had a copy of Harold Wilson's biography down the back of my trousers when the slipper was wielded, sda. Didn't feel a thing. 😁 Surely an A to Z of the Scilly Isles would have been more apposite.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 14:07:32 GMT
I just think that there are an awful lot of people out there who 'doth protest too much', in large part fuelled by social media and a large number of deserving people who do need policy attention from whom you hear not a pip. It's hardly censorship if you're banning a platform that in theory carries all sorts of messages is it? Unless Facebook and other platforms are better regulated (which isn't going to happen) then they should be controlled in the same way as broadcasting is, by the state. Social media creates silos and fake news that are very dangerous to societal cohesion, surely that's not in doubt? A lot of the populist spasms of the last few years are, I'm sure, directly attributable to it. Why give the Russians a free an easy way to undermine us for example? Thats the world we live in now. Particularly younger people. Shooting the messengers wont save your favourite politicians if people have had enough. Presumably you are happy with Facebook vitriol in UK at the Tories ?
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 24, 2024 14:10:47 GMT
I just think that there are an awful lot of people out there who 'doth protest too much', in large part fuelled by social media and a large number of deserving people who do need policy attention from whom you hear not a pip. It's hardly censorship if you're banning a platform that in theory carries all sorts of messages is it? Unless Facebook and other platforms are better regulated (which isn't going to happen) then they should be controlled in the same way as broadcasting is, by the state. Social media creates silos and fake news that are very dangerous to societal cohesion, surely that's not in doubt? A lot of the populist spasms of the last few years are, I'm sure, directly attributable to it. Why give the Russians a free an easy way to undermine us for example? Thats the world we live in now. Particularly younger people. Shooting the messengers wont save your favourite politicians if people have had enough. Presumably you are happy with Facebook vitriol in UK at the Tories ? I think the hysteria in all directions on Facebook and Twitter etc is all damaging and diminishing. It's one of the reasons I'm on here and not there.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 24, 2024 14:14:53 GMT
R4 discussing announcement of extra funding for local councils. This is an announcement of an announcement, so details are imprecise but the hot bet seems to be £500 million extra money. Trouble is, they estimate to need $1.6bn this year and £4bn next year, so its only about 1/3 of what is needed. And its apparently earmarked in particular for social care (presumably going mostly to pensioners and therefore more likey to be conservative voters. )
So its all the unprotected things which will be cut back. Now, I think whoever runs libraries seem to have some odd ideas about book stock, for example not having any, and I have here a book I bought second hand ex library published 2016, which looks suspiciously like it was never borrowed and has the original date slip still in it. I was looking at another ex library book on ebay, which was only 2 years since publication. But I fancy in the past libraries had much bigger collections so would carry more stock of books other than Harry potter. I visited one former council library which is now apparently being run by a volunteer organisation, which now sources its own books and even has to pay rent to the council for the building. Its something of a concern that we seem to have not taken any formal decision whether or not we need libraries, but they are being steadily closed and made less useful as they scale down without anyone really noticing. While of course, the whole state education system is also running down for lack of funding and we persist with the idea of importing ready educated adults from abroad to meet essential skills shortages.
Meanwhile another expert was disussing Ukraine and the defence of Europe, and noted the whole of Europe would be unable collectively to supply Ukraine with the ammunition it needs to continue the war against Russia, if the US withdraws. Now that somewhat worrying, because it implies whatever proud statements have been issued about European armies, they could not even collectively win a war against Russia. Especially is Russia is already geared up for war as it has now become. All obviously given more salience because of a possible Trump presidency, but frankly the whole US is getting tired of funding and supplying a petty local war in Europe which is no longer seen as critically important to US interests. Indeed, Trump has argued to impose tariffs against all non US imported goods and to withdraw from WTO, which presumably would collapse. Back to Island america, or at least a change of emphasis on its priorities such as Mexico.
Anyway, the list of unpaid bills awaiting the next government keeps getting longer.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 24, 2024 14:17:43 GMT
I had a copy of Harold Wilson's biography down the back of my trousers when the slipper was wielded, sda. Didn't feel a thing. 😁 Surely an A to Z of the Scilly Isles would have been more apposite. The Scillys tome is too thin. Not sufficient slipper impact absorption, I'm afraid. I had the Wilson biography open on the page detailing the 1966 Labour landslide in order to widen the tome to give me more backside area cover. Interestingly, the book seems to automatically open on this page anyway! 😉🤣
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 24, 2024 14:18:38 GMT
I don't think anybody has mentioned the Russian IL62 crash this morning.
One thing that strikes me as odd is that the mobile phone footage pans back to show a puff of smoke that supposed to be evidence of a missile strike. What's odd is that the smoke looks to be at about 5,000ft, when a plane like that should be at 30,000ft or so, unless descending to land and there's been no mention that it was on approach at the time. And if it was on approach it's radar track would have made that obvious.
Another oddity is that the Russians almost immediately said it had 65 PoW's on board and at almost the same time the Ukrainians said it had SAM 3 missiles on board. That suggests to me that it was a possible Russian Intelligence sting and that they'd let information that it had missiles on board get out so that the Ukrainians were aware and tempted to shoot it down. How else would both sides be so quick in giving out their version of the plane's contents, especially the exact number of PoW's and crew. Russia normally takes a very long time to release such information. which suggest a certain possibility of PR preparation beforehand.
Am I being too cynical?
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Jan 24, 2024 14:21:54 GMT
Surely an A to Z of the Scilly Isles would have been more apposite. The Scillys tome is too thin. Not sufficient slipper impact absorption, I'm afraid. I had the Wilson biography open on the page detailing the 1966 Labour landslide in order to widen the tome to give me more backside area cover. Interestingly, the book seems to automatically open on this page anyway! 😉🤣 Wasn't that about 'Pound in your pocket' time. Thinking back maybe La Truss should have revived that performance.
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Post by mercian on Jan 24, 2024 14:26:27 GMT
... " voters who have long been ignored and patronised are on the march.A political earthquake is about to rock Europe. Millions of Europeans are saying, ‘We’ve had enough, we no longer trust these tired, entitled mainstream political parties’,” Prof Frank Furedi, director of the MMC think tank in Brussels, I wonder how Remainers who claim they knew exactly what they were voting for think about that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2024 14:29:08 GMT
... " voters who have long been ignored and patronised are on the march.A political earthquake is about to rock Europe. Millions of Europeans are saying, ‘We’ve had enough, we no longer trust these tired, entitled mainstream political parties’,” Prof Frank Furedi, director of the MMC think tank in Brussels, I wonder how Remainers who claim they knew exactly what they were voting for think about that? Andrew Marr said he had changed his mind about rejoining.
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Post by mercian on Jan 24, 2024 14:29:39 GMT
I think a lot of Tory/centre-right political commentators are now scurrying around trying to think of what inscription to.put on the Tory wreath for the imminent funeral. Finklestein's appears to be this:- " Alas poor Tories, I knew you well. Your time as the natural party of government is up. Your capacity for chameleon like reinventions is now exhausted. Old Stanley invented the blueprint in the 30s but it's over now, but your great service to the British people is that you made the Labour Party a Tory-lite harmless alternative. Are you listening to that Real Men of the Left. The betrayal is yours (are they squabbling yet, Deidre?).Labour have now transplanted a One Nation Tory Party that is heading for the ultimate reinvention as a squabbling ideologically based right wing party. But victory is ours. As always. My beloved Tory Party has bequeathed to a grateful nation another version of their once glorious selves. Await my Starmer and Streeting endorsement as the ultimate kiss of death " Is Murdoch still paying old Danny for this drivel??? As you wrote it shouldn't he be paying you?
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Post by wb61 on Jan 24, 2024 14:30:26 GMT
Surely an A to Z of the Scilly Isles would have been more apposite. The Scillys tome is too thin. Not sufficient slipper impact absorption, I'm afraid. I had the Wilson biography open on the page detailing the 1966 Labour landslide in order to widen the tome to give me more backside area cover. Interestingly, the book seems to automatically open on this page anyway! 😉🤣 I read the biography last summer. Overall both readable and informative. I am a Wilson fan and I believe the process is starting of a more objective view of his historical importance as a leader; this book is part of that process. However, that said, it is not a "warts and all portrayal" as it underplays some of the failings. It does not deal well with the way in which he failed to support Castle effectively when the cabinet was dealing with "In Place of Strife" allowing Callaghan and Brown to undermine her IMO. If it had been more critical it would make it the important historical analysis it ought to be. That said Wilson's pluses as leader far outweigh his failings and this book demonstrates that. Further it does show he wasn't the sly liar he was sometimes portrayed as. He needed to balance the party and sometimes this meant he was not as forthright in his dealings as he might have been. However, that meant that he did keep the Labour Party together and at the very least delayed the split that led to the formation of the SDP.
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