domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 17, 2024 13:46:56 GMT
“ Here's a young chap who doesn't read UKPR2:-” “ What a novel idea-having a "genuine conversation" !” As always, colin is full of put-downs and sarcasm but seemingly has nothing positive to discuss or offer. The story of the “young chap” made me ashamed of the reality he might one day face. As for going door to door to chat with prospective voters - I wonder if this is something he has ever done? I haven’t but I can imagine it takes a great deal of commitment from Party members of all types. Positive ?-Definitely. My put down of the accusation that the british are xenophobic racists was a pleasant opportunity to quote someone who , having clearly thought about it deeply while in France, decided that we aren't. As you can see , UKPR2's chief exponent of this view is not persuaded and believes the young Afghan to be deluded. On political activism at GE time-No I have never done that. Party members do I assume and obviously they are committed in doing so. I have had the impression that it really consists of a box tick as to the vote to be anticipated. I am more than a little cynical about that sort of visit every five years. So it was an opportunity to use a little sarcasm about a report that "genuine conversations" are planned. As you can see davem told me that this is not new-so I guess the report is wrong. Its difficult for me to judge because in 18 years in this house we have never been visited by a political party member. I remain cynical about mass political door knocking at GE time. Just a thought on sarcasm and cynicism in general . My impression is that there is a lot of it about at the moment. And it is probably going to be to the benefit of the Labour Party. So easy on the put downs about sarcastic cynics "My put down of the accusation that the british are xenophobic racists was a pleasant opportunity to quote someone who , having clearly thought about it deeply while in France, decided that we aren't. As you can see , UKPR2's chief exponent of this view is not persuaded and believes the young Afghan to be deluded" - Well I'm not and many in this country and in France are also not of course but I'm not so deluded to think that there aren't very many of my 'fellow countrymen' (including some in my own wider family) who are or is it really all just 'genuine concerns about immigration' and not something more base and unpleasant? The sole reason for your comment it seems, to bring it down to it's base level, say 'UK: 1, France: 0'. Bit childish really. I've seen how some people in this country will look at you askance even for having the temerity to speak another language in a public space. God knows what it must be like to be a refugee in the current climate here or anywhere else for that matter and I'm not for a second deceived into thinking they get a warm welcome in other European countries either. Btw way I thought he was Iraqi not an Aghan? Never mind, they're all the same these messed up places aren't they?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2024 13:57:46 GMT
The sole reason for your comment it seems, to bring it down to it's base level, say 'UK: 1, France: 0'. Bit childish really. Btw way I thought he was Iraqi not an Aghan? Never mind, they're all the same these messed up places aren't they? Not at all. It was to refute your blanket characterisations of the british. Your post now is more circumspect. Of course there are xenophobes in every country. Whether you are unduly influenced by their alleged presence in your own family is perhaps worth you thinking about. Thanks for the correction-the man quoted was an Iraqi. There were others mentioned who were Afghans. I must confess to feeling some guilt about their plight so a Freudian slip perhaps !
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 17, 2024 14:23:28 GMT
domjg I feel the need to go to the brexitanians capital city Skegness and speak Spanish on a bus, a brown man speaking " foreign " they'll be searching for the small boat!
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Post by bardin1 on Jan 17, 2024 14:26:48 GMT
I'm on the same page The UK can support about half its current population by food produced in the UK. Our target paopulation should be based on that (slightly under to cope with fluctuations). www.foodsecurity.ac.uk/challenge/uk-threat/#:~:text=The%20UK%20is%20not%20self,itself%20and%20drive%20economic%20growth. Imagine how much more pleasant the UK would be with half the population. It would also help over time with the transition towards AI/ robots taking over a lot of the more basic work. It needs a long term plan (over 50-100 years) and sadly our FPTP electoral systemand vested commercial interests make that almost impossible to achieve.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 17, 2024 15:09:22 GMT
I'm on the same page The UK can support about half its current population by food produced in the UK. Our target paopulation should be based on that (slightly under to cope with fluctuations). www.foodsecurity.ac.uk/challenge/uk-threat/#:~:text=The%20UK%20is%20not%20self,itself%20and%20drive%20economic%20growth. Imagine how much more pleasant the UK would be with half the population. It would also help over time with the transition towards AI/ robots taking over a lot of the more basic work. It needs a long term plan (over 50-100 years) and sadly our FPTP electoral systemand vested commercial interests make that almost impossible to achieve. No, the UK chooses to import slightly more than half of its food, which is not the same thing. Back in 1941 the UK population was just over 48 million which we successfully fed despite the U-boats. What it meant though was a very restricted diet. Imagine how unpleasant UK life would be if you could not buy citrus fruits, or bananas, or olive oil, or wine. What we really need to do is to rewild more of our countryside and that means deliberately growing less food. The population will take care of itself; births have been below replacement level for decades and it is only immigration that is keeping our population up.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 17, 2024 15:19:17 GMT
"Rwanda’s president has said there are limits to how long attempts to implement an asylum deal with Britain can “drag on”, adding that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped.
Paul Kagame’s comments to the Guardian in Davos on Wednesday came before Rishi Sunak faced a potentially leadership-ending rebellion by Conservative MPs threatening to vote down his Rwanda deportation bill on Wednesday night.
Asked if he was following the debate in London, Kagame said: “It is the UK’s problem, not ours.”
But in comments that are likely to set alarm bells ringing in London, Kagame went on to express frustration at the drawn-out debate about whether asylum seekers would be processed in Rwanda. “There are limits for how long this can drag on,” he said.
Asked if the UK deal was working, he replied: “Ask the UK. It is the UK’s problem, not Rwanda’s problem.”
When asked about the money the UK had spent on the scheme, he said: “The money is going to be used on those people who will come. If they don’t come we can ( but don't have to) return the money.”
So even Rwanda seems to have had enough of the regime's bullshit
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 17, 2024 15:22:14 GMT
I'm on the same page The UK can support about half its current population by food produced in the UK. Our target paopulation should be based on that (slightly under to cope with fluctuations). www.foodsecurity.ac.uk/challenge/uk-threat/#:~:text=The%20UK%20is%20not%20self,itself%20and%20drive%20economic%20growth. Imagine how much more pleasant the UK would be with half the population. It would also help over time with the transition towards AI/ robots taking over a lot of the more basic work. It needs a long term plan (over 50-100 years) and sadly our FPTP electoral systemand vested commercial interests make that almost impossible to achieve. Don't you live in the middle of Scotland or somewhere pretty sparsly populated? We're just fine down here in the crowded south east with a broad gene pool thanks v much 😀. It jars with me when I hear this 'wouldn't it be nice if there were fewer of us stuff. Sounds a bit 'Blut und Boden' and far right friendly to me because by definition it would mean keeping people out. In any case as others have mentioned many times it's not about absolute numbers but about a balanced age range, otherwise society needs to import young people to function, re Japan unless the oldies want to do a Logan's run on us when they get to a certain age? Thought not..
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2024 15:23:18 GMT
Up by 0.1%, rather than down by 0.1% alec It's not significant except for those who like to grab at any straw to support their argument. I still think that the overall trend of inflation will be downwards. I'm sure you're right on the overall trend thing leftieliberal. But I still think there might be an effect, even if it would be over-egging it to describe it as "significant". That's because this is another month where the headline ('Inflation Up') re-inforces a couple of years' worth of the feeling that things are getting worse. It's also a month delay for the government being able to credibly claim that things are getting better. So more time for people's views of them to remain negative and to be further ingrained and less time for the Tories to turn negative opinions and thoughts around. Of course I could be grabbing at a straw there and I'm certainly not saying this is a decisive moment but it's another poor one for the Tories at a time when they really don't need it.
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Post by shevii on Jan 17, 2024 15:26:31 GMT
Have we had Deltapoll?
Stats for Lefties 🇵🇸🏳️⚧️ @leftiestats · 1h 🗳️ Labour lead by 16pts, majority of 160
🟥 LAB 44% (+2) 🟦 CON 28% (=) 🟧 LD 10% (-2) 🟪 REF 7% (-2) 🟩 GRN 6% (=) 🟨 SNP 3% (+1)
Via @deltapolluk , 12-15 Jan (+/- vs 29 Dec)
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2024 15:37:31 GMT
"Rwanda’s president has said there are limits to how long attempts to implement an asylum deal with Britain can “drag on”, adding that he would be happy for the scheme to be scrapped. Paul Kagame’s comments to the Guardian in Davos on Wednesday came before Rishi Sunak faced a potentially leadership-ending rebellion by Conservative MPs threatening to vote down his Rwanda deportation bill on Wednesday night. Asked if he was following the debate in London, Kagame said: “It is the UK’s problem, not ours.” But in comments that are likely to set alarm bells ringing in London, Kagame went on to express frustration at the drawn-out debate about whether asylum seekers would be processed in Rwanda. “There are limits for how long this can drag on,” he said. Asked if the UK deal was working, he replied: “Ask the UK. It is the UK’s problem, not Rwanda’s problem.” When asked about the money the UK had spent on the scheme, he said: “The money is going to be used on those people who will come. If they don’t come we can ( but don't have to) return the money.” So even Rwanda seems to have had enough of the regime's bullshit I wonder. I can't see the Rwandans, because of delays, turning down the hundreds of millions of pounds that they stand to gain and which constitutes a small but decent percentage of their GDP. Could it be that Sunak has phoned up the Rwandans and said to them something along the lines of "I need your help. If you want the money to continue to flow then this bill can't die. I need to get it through parliament and I think it would help me to herd the cats, I mean my MPs, if you make out that this needs to be sorted out soon. Say this can't "drag on". That would help". None of that of course makes the Rwanda 'solution' any more likely to actually happen, but it will at least defer this particular party management problem to another day. Edit: Thew other thing that makes me think that the Rwandans pronouncements aren't coincidental is the timing of them - the day of the vote. I am aware this could look a bit conspiracy theory
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2024 15:59:18 GMT
Have we had Deltapoll? Stats for Lefties 🇵🇸🏳️⚧️ @leftiestats · 1h 🗳️ Labour lead by 16pts, majority of 160 🟥 LAB 44% (+2) 🟦 CON 28% (=) 🟧 LD 10% (-2) 🟪 REF 7% (-2) 🟩 GRN 6% (=) 🟨 SNP 3% (+1) Via @deltapolluk , 12-15 Jan (+/- vs 29 Dec) We have now. Thanks.
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Post by graham on Jan 17, 2024 16:09:57 GMT
Sad news. Tony Lloyd MP for Rochdale has died.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 17, 2024 16:27:47 GMT
Up by 0.1%, rather than down by 0.1% alec It's not significant except for those who like to grab at any straw to support their argument. I still think that the overall trend of inflation will be downwards. I'm sure you're right on the overall trend thing leftieliberal. But I still think there might be an effect, even if it would be over-egging it to describe it as "significant". That's because this is another month where the headline ('Inflation Up') re-inforces a couple of years' worth of the feeling that things are getting worse. It's also a month delay for the government being able to credibly claim that things are getting better. So more time for people's views of them to remain negative and to be further ingrained and less time for the Tories to turn negative opinions and thoughts around. Of course I could be grabbing at a straw there and I'm certainly not saying this is a decisive moment but it's another poor one for the Tories at a time when they really don't need it. What I am more interested in is whether inflation will hit the BoE's 2% target in the April measurement; that's a better indication of the long-term trend. Expect inflation to be up a bit in January as well because of the price spike after the Russian invasion of Ukraine falling out of the figures. After the January measurement there should be a clear downward trend. I always follow the OBR assessment because they don't have an axe to grind, unlike commercial banks. Some banks have pencilled in five interest rate cuts by the BoE before the end of 2024 but that seems optimistic to me; I would expect the first in either May or June 2024 Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we expect CPI inflation to have peaked in the fourth quarter of 2022 at its highest rate in around 40 years. The increase was driven primarily by higher gas prices feeding into sharp rises in domestic energy bills, alongside higher fuel prices and global goods inflation. Inflation is expected to fall rapidly – reaching and then oscillating around 0 per cent from mid-2024 to mid-2026 – as energy bills fall back and some global supply pressures reverse. We expect inflation to then return to the 2 per cent target by the end of the forecast as the large swings in energy prices fall out of the annual CPI calculation and output is broadly in line with the economy’s productive potential.
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Jan 17, 2024 16:28:48 GMT
if you miss your local post office branch, blame the major government which began this. Or perhaps the Blair government which gave the go-ahead to go live even when the system was known to be faulty. There's no blame to be attached to commissioning a new system, only implementing a faulty one.
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Jan 17, 2024 16:31:35 GMT
crossbat11 has told me that the Personal Massage parlours in Droitwich are the very best he's ever encountered in his extensive experience. What you haven't mentioned here is the fact that we first met in one of these establishments. The rather novel floating one in Droitwich Marina, if you recall It was called "The Burlesque Bargepole" for some strange reason. Ah yes. I was working as an undercover journalist for the tabloid Droitwich Discoverer at the time. As is the tradition for tabloid reporters I 'made my excuses and left'. I hope you enjoyed the rest of your stay.
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Post by alec on Jan 17, 2024 16:31:55 GMT
leftieliberal - "Back in 1941 the UK population was just over 48 million which we successfully fed despite the U-boats." That's stretching reality. Canada upped it's proportion of the British wheat market from 20% - 83%, 150,000 tonnes of fresh egg imports were replaced by dehydrated eggs, as they were easier to ship, we shifted from fresh beef to tinned meats from Argentina, and we replaced European butter with New Zealand produce, who also provided more cheese, along with the US. The truth was we still relied on imports and would have starved without them. Details here. css2.open.ac.uk/outis/docs/publications/OZNWA.pdfbardin1 - "Imagine how much more pleasant the UK would be with half the population." So long as we get rid of the right half... Another bright spot is that the UK, like China, is contributing to global population decline. Currently our live births are undershooting deaths by around 50,000 a year, which is great news. Of course, we're adjusting to this by continuing with mass inward migration, which undermines the benefits of a smaller population on the UK scale, but at least we are contributing positively to the problem of global over population.
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Jan 17, 2024 16:54:07 GMT
domjg I feel the need to go to the brexitanians capital city Skegness and speak Spanish on a bus, a brown man speaking " foreign " they'll be searching for the small boat! Your mention of Spanish reminded me of your question the other day about trying to teach a baby two languages. It has since occurred to me that the baby wouldn't know that they are two different languages, they are all just words. This might hamper interactions with its peers and teachers when the child goes to nursery or school.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jan 17, 2024 17:08:02 GMT
domjg I feel the need to go to the brexitanians capital city Skegness and speak Spanish on a bus, a brown man speaking " foreign " they'll be searching for the small boat! Your mention of Spanish reminded me of your question the other day about trying to teach a baby two languages. It has since occurred to me that the baby wouldn't know that they are two different languages, they are all just words. This might hamper interactions with its peers and teachers when the child goes to nursery or school. Oh dear.. when we comment on things of which we know nothing. Actually babies can identify from the off which sounds and words belong to which language and they discern accordingly. Their brains are extraordinary machines for sucking in and ordering huge amounts of information. "This might hamper interactions with its peers and teachers when the child goes to nursery or school" - This is such an out of date notion, it unbelievable..
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 17, 2024 17:15:56 GMT
mercian There's no evidence for that. According to research, children who learn two languages simultaneously go through the same processes and progress at the same rate as children who learn only one language. They have no issues with speaking one or the other language it's not a jumbled mix of both. For adults like me who didn't learn Spanish until my twenties there is a tendency to shift from Spanish to English when you don't know or can't remember the correct expression. This is known in Spain as "spanglish".
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Post by pete on Jan 17, 2024 17:17:12 GMT
One person's life and all that is wrong with this country.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 17, 2024 18:08:14 GMT
What you haven't mentioned here is the fact that we first met in one of these establishments. The rather novel floating one in Droitwich Marina, if you recall It was called "The Burlesque Bargepole" for some strange reason. Ah yes. I was working as an undercover journalist for the tabloid Droitwich Discoverer at the time. As is the tradition for tabloid reporters I 'made my excuses and left'. I hope you enjoyed the rest of your stay. That's a surprise. I do remember, after you made your excuses and left me to my fate, one of the masseurs told me, in fairly broken English; " That is Peete. He calls thees place his Chess Match. We do not a knowing what hees talking about, but he is laughing about theese whe he givers us his big teep. "
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Jan 17, 2024 18:19:06 GMT
'THE boss of Scottish Power has said that developing wind farms in England is “godforsaken” despite changes which the UK Government promised last year.
Keith Anderson told MPs that the company, which is one of the UK’s largest wind farm builders, was not planning to construct any onshore sites in England.
Anderson said: “If I speak from the part of our company that is a wind farm developer. I am not proposing, or planning, or looking at developing any onshore wind farms in England. It’s godforsaken,” he told the Energy Security and Net Zero Committee.
“The number of sites available aren’t that great, the wind yields aren’t that brilliant, but the process is cumbersome, slow, difficult and fraught with uncertainty.”www.thenational.scot/news/24056059.scottish-power-england-godforsaken-place-building-wind-farms/
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 17, 2024 18:26:24 GMT
Ah yes. I was working as an undercover journalist for the tabloid Droitwich Discoverer at the time. As is the tradition for tabloid reporters I 'made my excuses and left'. I hope you enjoyed the rest of your stay. That's a surprise. I do remember, after you made your excuses and left me to my fate, one of the masseurs told me, in fairly broken English; " That is Peete. He calls thees place his Chess Match. We do not a knowing what hees talking about, but he is laughing about theese whe he givers us his big teep. " Porn promotion, sorry I mean pawn promotion of course.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 17, 2024 18:53:48 GMT
More profiles in courage.
Threat of significant Tory rebellion over Rwanda bill recedes with only 'small number' reported to be voting against it Tory rebels are now admitting that only a handful of their number will vote against the Rwanda bill at third reading, according to reporters who have been covering their meeting in the Commons this afternoon.
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Post by Mark on Jan 17, 2024 18:54:01 GMT
Re-inflation.
This was always going to fall due to international factors that are beyond the government control.
The determinite factor re-what the government may or may not have done/be doing is how inflation here compares to similar economies and on that score we are doing badly. Personally, I believe that brexit plays a part in why we are worse than others.
Also, a government that is riding on inflation falling is betting on fortune...and most times, betting is a mug's game.
The world is less stable than even 5 years ago and we already have a crisis in the Red Sea that could mmaybe already is fuelling inflation.
As well as the Rwanda / Stop The Boats stuff, the government seems to be picking some odd hills to die on.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jan 17, 2024 19:05:04 GMT
Or perhaps the Blair government which gave the go-ahead to go live even when the system was known to be faulty. There's no blame to be attached to commissioning a new system, only implementing a faulty one. By that point much of the money was already spent. All the indications are that the original purpose of commissioning the system was not because the post office needed it, but so the DSS could catch benefit fraud. This purpose disappeared because benefits began to be paid directly to claimants, not through the PO, though I have yet to see how this system was supposed to catch fraud, but that was the claim. The situation looks wholly like the Cameron decision not to cancel the aircraft carriers begun to be built by labour. Which are also white elephants crippling the navy...where we are now scrapping more useful ships because of the vast cost of the carriers. At the point of rollout, its clear fujitsu knew it was flawed. However, experience of using it showed that while it was flawed, it has worked well enough to support the PO business. What it has not done is be reliable enought to account for all monies or be used as evidence of fraud. And there is the problem, fujitsu knew it was a bit dodgy but in all probablity never believed it would be relied upon alone to prove fraud. At least at the outside, they did learn this at least after a few years. The post office must have become aware it had failings, and I'd think must have realised this within a couple of years at most. But by then their mission...and very probably dictated by government...was to prove it was perfect and justified the expenditure of £3 billion.
Most blame has to accure to the most recent government with responsibility for this, because they have STILL not compensated those affected. I'd suggest credible compensation for 20 years affected by this has to begin at £1 million. How many people here (should we have a poll?) would be willing to volunteer to be a postmaster affected by this if promised at the outset to get £1 million and be finally exhonerated 20 years later? No one? What price would people here demand for agreeing to go through this? .
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 17, 2024 19:10:41 GMT
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Post by John Chanin on Jan 17, 2024 19:31:07 GMT
The world is less stable than even 5 years ago and we already have a crisis in the Red Sea that could, maybe already is fuelling inflation. As well as the Rwanda / Stop The Boats stuff, the government seems to be picking some odd hills to die on. This is one of the weirdest political things in my long lifetime. The whole Rwanda thing is a complete distraction that will have no real world effect, even if they manage to send a couple of hundred people there. The Conservatives are tearing themselves apart on something irrelevant and pointless. While pretending this is something to do with immigration, they are actually presiding over historically high levels. Of course there are reasons for this, but it could be stopped, although the consequences might not meet with much approval, which is why they aren't doing it. The number of people who arrive in boats (most of whom are genuine refugees and are granted asylum) are only about 5% of immigrants. It's an old political saw. It's not what you actually do, but what you tell people you are doing. Most governments pretend they are doing something about daft counterproductive opinions of a large chunk of the public, while in reality trying to act in the public interest and take actions that are actually effective (we call this democracy). But this government, or to be more accurate its backbenchers, seem to have lost touch with reality. I doubt it will impress more than a tiny handful of the public through sheer ludicrousness. You can feel a bit sorry for Sunak and Hunt, who are at least adults, trying to do their best.
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Post by EmCat on Jan 17, 2024 20:33:44 GMT
Up by 0.1%, rather than down by 0.1% alec It's not significant except for those who like to grab at any straw to support their argument. I still think that the overall trend of inflation will be downwards. I'm sure you're right on the overall trend thing leftieliberal. But I still think there might be an effect, even if it would be over-egging it to describe it as "significant". It's significant in the same way that £4 feels far more expensive than £3.99. Perception often overtakes rational thought - it's one of the reasons retailers have long had prices at "something ninety nine", simply because the of the effect it has on many people's subconscious. "Oh, I can afford that, because it's less than £10" vs "I'm not sure I can afford that. It's £10"
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Jan 17, 2024 21:30:37 GMT
bardin1 - "Imagine how much more pleasant the UK would be with half the population." So long as we get rid of the right half... I'd rather it was the left half..
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