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Post by robbiealive on Jan 3, 2024 17:27:38 GMT
Yes, the swings in 1997 were indeed higher in Con-held seats, and lower in safe Labour seats. The swings, compared to 1992 were: Safe Con 13.5% Middle Con 13.0% Marginal Con 12.3% Marginal Lab 11.8% Middle Lab 9.8% Safe Lab 7.9% See page 14 of 18 www.dannydorling.org/wp-content/files/dannydorling_publication_id1318.pdfThe other point that Kellner seems unwilling to acknowledge is the factor of Govrnment recovery. Current MRPs reflect polling which puts Labour around 16-17% ahead. However, the normal fall in the polling lead for an opposition from this point is around 4-7 points. Given that the MRPs are showing Labour gaining around '15 seats per 1% swing' from Con since 2019, it is reasonable to expect the Labour seat tally to be reduced by 30-50 from the recent MRPs which currently give them 400-430 seats. So the 'majority' may well fall by 60-100. But this pattern is a normal feature of polling as we approach a General Election, not a failing of MRP. Thanks Mr Pollster. What amazes me is that you always have the relevant info immediately available. If it wasnt for that damn Duck or whatever it is I would give you a like.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 3, 2024 18:21:05 GMT
T his is all besides the point. Back in 2005 con lost. They needed a cause to help them win in 2010, it was euroscepticism and that grew into brexit. It won them 14 years in power whereas without the right wing loons they would have lost to Brown.
That wasn't what happened. Cameron after 2005 moved the Conservatives to the left on social stances and promised to "stop banging on about Europe". Euroscepticism reared its ugly head again when the Tories got scared about UKIPs electoral performance after 2010. Many of us believe that was at least partly caused by the impact of Cameron's own austerity polices
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Post by EmCat on Jan 3, 2024 18:27:23 GMT
That seems a pointless waste of time. To an extent, yes it is a waste of time, as the chance of the FTPA being reinstated is effectively zero On the other hand, it plays to the narrative that Sunak is frit by not calling an election sooner rather than later (I think Labour have been using that attack line too). If the perception is that Sunak is digging his fingernails into the door (in much the same way that Major appeared to from around late 1995 onwards), then the public will mentally raise their bar on what the Tories need to do to earn a vote. The bar is already quite high, with the perception that the five pledges will only be met by fudging the figures, rather than by them actually being achieved.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jan 3, 2024 18:55:50 GMT
That seems a pointless waste of time. To an extent, yes it is a waste of time, as the chance of the FTPA being reinstated is effectively zero On the other hand, it plays to the narrative that Sunak is frit by not calling an election sooner rather than later (I think Labour have been using that attack line too). If the perception is that Sunak is digging his fingernails into the door (in much the same way that Major appeared to from around late 1995 onwards), then the public will mentally raise their bar on what the Tories need to do to earn a vote. The bar is already quite high, with the perception that the five pledges will only be met by fudging the figures, rather than by them actually being achieved. As Paul Waugh in the i newspaper says: Moreover, Ed Davey's party could inflict even more Tory damage than Reform UK. Yes, the Lib Dem leader's latest photo-op - driving a removal van to get Sunak out of No.10 - was as deliberately cringeworthy as all his other stunts with orange hammers and tractors. But it once more told moderate, liberal Conservatives that here is a safe vehicle for booting out the UKIP-lite Tory party.I doubt that we have many (or any?) moderate, liberal Conservatives on here; we're not really the target audience for these stunts.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 3, 2024 19:31:28 GMT
I was a member of police staff in the Met - basically a civil servant for 30 years up to 2013. I echo what you say 100% - no comparison indeed. Graham, either you got lucky, or only saw what you wanted to see, or you couldn’t see what was plain to the majority of the rest of us public servants. No - and I am not sure that Police Officers are seen as Civil Servants per se any more than are mebers of the Armed Forces..
This evening - since these exchanges began - I have spoken to someone who joined Norfolk County Council in 2001. He agrees totally with my comments re- changes which occurred pre- 2010 - and how depressing was his experience working in the Public Sector in the first decade of the 21st century.
I didn't say I was a police officer. I said I was a member of police staff. That's entirely different and I was not a cop. I was a civil servant - police staff was just the historical name for us - we were support staff and had the same terms, conditions, pay rises, etc of other civil servants. Of course in my 27 years in the Met leading up to 2010 there were tough times but I never once felt my job was in jeopardy or felt it was much better or worse than mates in other public sector roles or the private sector. Up until Cameron and Osborne getting elected I always thought that I'd retire at 60 as a civil servant. Even when Osborne let loose in 2010 and we were pretty much all offered voluntary redundancy, I said no despite it being clear which way the austerity wind was blowing. The following year I was offered it again. This time I accepted it to keep my options open, but when it was approved I didn't sign the papers. Without wishing to sound to up myself, public service was just too ingrained in me. I wanted to hang on and just hoped against hope. By the following year, I was desperate to leave as many of my friends and colleagues already had by then. When they accepted my request I cannot tell you just how relieved and happy I was. They had turned a man who loved his work into someone who frankly, was a shadow of his former self, desperate to leave an organisation where I had done a lot of good - saved lives, reduced deaths on the road, helped jail paedophiles, etc, etc, etc. That wasn't Blair who made me and countless thousands of others feel that way. It was Cameron and Osborne. What they did to public service was unequalled even by Thatcher let alone by Blair. You seemingly putting Blair in the same bracket as them, as others have said seems to be down to your blinkered loathing of Blair. However it also indicates something I see from you time and time again on here. You don't seem to appreciate or be able to distinguish that these people aren't at exactly the same point of the scale - that in fact even if they are on the same scale, they are at different points of it. You seem to have a one size fits all approach to what you perceive to be wrong-doing. Anyway, on another subject, there was a discussion about hate earlier on. I'll put my hand up - it takes one to be a real ****, but 100% I can hate politicians. Why wouldn't I have hated Thatcher in the day. It was personal. Amongst the communities she wrecked were ones in South Wales where relatives of mine were miners and I saw her turn the full force of the state, including the police (I was only a year in the Met at that time, didn't feel part of them and hated their part in doing Thatchers's work for them - Maggie's men indeed). That hatred has died of course just as she has. Osborne's still around. He hugely affected my life and the lives of millions of others and why? I'll answer my own question - because he didn't give a shit about others and because he was an ideologue. I've made a good life for myself since I left the Met - in many ways, I feel like a different person to the one I was then but ten years on, but whenever I see his smug, insidious face I know that I couldn't entirely trust myself in the unlikely situation that by chance we found ourselves to be the only two people in a room. And breathe Dave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 19:57:59 GMT
To an extent, yes it is a waste of time, as the chance of the FTPA being reinstated is effectively zero On the other hand, it plays to the narrative that Sunak is frit by not calling an election sooner rather than later (I think Labour have been using that attack line too). If the perception is that Sunak is digging his fingernails into the door (in much the same way that Major appeared to from around late 1995 onwards), then the public will mentally raise their bar on what the Tories need to do to earn a vote. The bar is already quite high, with the perception that the five pledges will only be met by fudging the figures, rather than by them actually being achieved. As Paul Waugh in the i newspaper says: Moreover, Ed Davey's party could inflict even more Tory damage than Reform UK. Yes, the Lib Dem leader's latest photo-op - driving a removal van to get Sunak out of No.10 - was as deliberately cringeworthy as all his other stunts with orange hammers and tractors. But it once more told moderate, liberal Conservatives that here is a safe vehicle for booting out the UKIP-lite Tory party.I doubt that we have many (or any?) moderate, liberal Conservatives on here; we're not really the target audience for these stunts. Ed Davey's Lib Dems a safe vehicle! ? For whom ? The terminally pious self_satisfied and smug ?
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 3, 2024 20:01:13 GMT
It's Luke Littler time.
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graham
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Post by graham on Jan 3, 2024 20:36:02 GMT
No - and I am not sure that Police Officers are seen as Civil Servants per se any more than are mebers of the Armed Forces..
This evening - since these exchanges began - I have spoken to someone who joined Norfolk County Council in 2001. He agrees totally with my comments re- changes which occurred pre- 2010 - and how depressing was his experience working in the Public Sector in the first decade of the 21st century.
I didn't say I was a police officer. I said I was a member of police staff. That's entirely different and I was not a cop. I was a civil servant - police staff was just the historical name for us - we were support staff and had the same terms, conditions, pay rises, etc of other civil servants. Of course in my 27 years in the Met leading up to 2010 there were tough times but I never once felt my job was in jeopardy or felt it was much better or worse than mates in other public sector roles or the private sector. Up until Cameron and Osborne getting elected I always thought that I'd retire at 60 as a civil servant. Even when Osborne let loose in 2010 and we were pretty much all offered voluntary redundancy, I said no despite it being clear which way the austerity wind was blowing. The following year I was offered it again. This time I accepted it to keep my options open, but when it was approved I didn't sign the papers. Without wishing to sound to up myself, public service was just too ingrained in me. I wanted to hang on and just hoped against hope. By the following year, I was desperate to leave as many of my friends and colleagues already had by then. When they accepted my request I cannot tell you just how relieved and happy I was. They had turned a man who loved his work into someone who frankly, was a shadow of his former self, desperate to leave an organisation where I had done a lot of good - saved lives, reduced deaths on the road, helped jail paedophiles, etc, etc, etc. That wasn't Blair who made me and countless thousands of others feel that way. It was Cameron and Osborne. What they did to public service was unequalled even by Thatcher let alone by Blair. You seemingly putting Blair in the same bracket as them, as others have said seems to be down to your blinkered loathing of Blair. However it also indicates something I see from you time and time again on here. You don't seem to appreciate or be able to distinguish that these people aren't at exactly the same point of the scale - that in fact even if they are on the same scale, they are at different points of it. You seem to have a one size fits all approach to what you perceive to be wrong-doing. Anyway, on another subject, there was a discussion about hate earlier on. I'll put my hand up - it takes one to be a real ****, but 100% I can hate politicians. Why wouldn't I have hated Thatcher in the day. It was personal. Amongst the communities she wrecked were ones in South Wales where relatives of mine were miners and I saw her turn the full force of the state, including the police (I was only a year in the Met at that time, didn't feel part of them and hated their part in doing Thatchers's work for them - Maggie's men indeed). That hatred has died of course just as she has. Osborne's still around. He hugely affected my life and the lives of millions of others and why? I'll answer my own question - because he didn't give a shit about others and because he was an ideologue. I've made a good life for myself since I left the Met - in many ways, I feel like a different person to the one I was then but ten years on, but whenever I see his smug, insidious face I know that I couldn't entirely trust myself in the unlikely situation that by chance we found ourselves to be the only two people in a room. And breathe Dave You obviously had a very painful experience over an extended period of time, and I am genuinely sorry that you had to go through that. In some respects, it sounds very similar to my own experience in Education in the 1990s. Throughout that decade many colleagues left having been given generous voluntary redundancy terms. I myself was not eligible because I had not reached the age of 50 at the time . By the time I was close to that age the generous deals had ceased to be available. That in itself rankled and caused great internal bitterness which - to some extent - is still there today. On top of that the terms and conditions of existing staff worsened significantly and in 1995 we were effectively forced to sign new employment contracts very inferior to those they replaced. Many staff were demoted as a result of Lecturing grades being abolished. Additional working hours were imposed on us and holiday entitlements were reduced. I was one of the most resolute to oppose the new contracts and was among the last five - out of staff of 400 - to sign up to them.I continued to oppose it in my own way - by withdrawing goodwill - refusing to volunteer for particular tasks etc - and by making sure that I recovered my loss of holiday entitlement via additional 'sick leave'. This all occurred in the last years of Major's government - but none of it was reversed under Blair. Eventually I left in late 2001, and also had the pleasure of taking my Departmental Head - a woman - to the Magistrates Court on a charge of Criminal Harrassment under the terms of the Protection from Criminal Harassment Act 1997. It was a private prosecution in respect of which I acted for myself with no legal adviser. I must say I rather enjoyed sitting at the Prosecutor's table in the Courtroom with my former Head almost a jibbering wreck! Re- Blair. My hatred for him derives entirely from the 2003 Iraq War and the pain and suffering he inflicted on others. It appalls me that he - with Bush - has been able to evade justice with the complicity of other Western leaders. Prior to that , I had certainly felt betrayed by him after 18 years of Tory government which - in essence - he continued under a new label.I withdrew my political support by not renewing my Labour Party membership of 27 years at the beginning of 1997. Whilst I generally continued to vote Labour at Local Elections, I did not do so again at a General Election until 2015 - and again in 2017. 2019 saw me vote Green.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 3, 2024 20:42:14 GMT
"For whom ?
The terminally pious self_satisfied and smug ?"
for those who want to see the back of this execrable regime in seats which Labour can't win.
For those who want their votes to count for something even in safe seats
And for those who don't fancy living in a insular isolationist backwards looking dump.
I'll leave the smug vote to the entitiled self satisfied elite that run the Tory party.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 3, 2024 21:25:28 GMT
Good arrows from Cool Hand Luke Humphries. Luke The Nuke Littler had a dart for a 5-2 lead. He misses a double two. Next dart Cool Hand finishes to make it 4-3.
An epic is unfolding at the Ally Pally
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Post by jib on Jan 3, 2024 21:54:51 GMT
For those watching the very good drama on ITV "Mr Bates vs the Post Office" looks like this chap has some skeletons in the closet from his time serving David Cameron. "Ed Davey accuses Post Office bosses of misleading him over Horizon IT scandal Lib Dem leader says he regrets not doing more while postal affairs minister to help victims wrongly accused of stealing"LinkThat goes along with the Lib Dems' privatisation too. #rememberremember
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Post by hireton on Jan 3, 2024 22:01:09 GMT
Someone in UK Labour has been busy briefing the Guardian and the Times over the past couple of weeks.
Four briefings on:
1. Starmer and Reeves looking at pulling back even further from the Green New Deal.
2. Labour looking at proposing a policy on offshoring asylum claims processing
3. Reeves looking at proposals to include income tax cuts in the Labour manifesto.
4.Labour's Director of Campaigns briefed the Shadow Cabinet on election campaigns where large poll leads disappeared during the campaign.
Rolling the pitch for a further move to the right?
On the other hand, Reeves made a forthright statement about Labour's policy on high Street candy stores.
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Post by crossbat11 on Jan 3, 2024 22:19:59 GMT
The most important missed double two in darts history, maybe. Cool Hand went on to win it 7-4.
The kid Luke the Nuke did himself proud though and very nearly took it to a 12th set. Missed a double seven to do so.
Dramatic final though that had the Ally Pally rocking
There's only one Luke Littler.
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Post by jib on Jan 3, 2024 22:30:49 GMT
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Post by mercian on Jan 3, 2024 22:32:35 GMT
I did some back of an envelope calculations that showed that the native population (say those here since before WWII) would be outnumbered by 2050. In many cities they already are. So Rishi Sunak (born in Southampton in 1980) is by your reckoning not part of the native population given that his ancestors were not present in the UK before WWII - that despite being the Prime Minister. Boris Johnson was born in New York in 1964 and until he gave it up in 2016 had dual UK/US citizenship. Is he part of the the 'native population'? Does it matter that his paternal grandfather was Osman Kemal, son of Ali Kemal Bey, an Ottoman minister or that he also has German ancestry? I think you may find that your concept of 'native population', given the highly mixed ancestry of these Isles, is going to prove difficult to pin down. To give another example - are the many people of Irish heritage living in Britain part of the 'native population' or not? Individuals are irrelevant. The point I was trying to make was that the native population will have become a minority in a span of around 100 years. This in my view makes it at least comparable to the Anglo-Saxon invasion, and much greater in numerical terms than the Norman invasions. Both of those events caused massive changes to the culture and structure of society. To shrug off the current mass immigration as inevitable and not worth thinking about is very short-sighted. We will end up with a very different society to what we now have. I would like to think that our so-called leaders are at least considering what direction things may go, but I doubt it.
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Post by mercian on Jan 3, 2024 22:37:09 GMT
The Lib Dems look improbably high (can't see them getting more than about 35) and the SNP improbably low, which tends to make the rest of it doubtful. Still, we can have our own 2024 predictions game and offer up our best guesses. What was the final outcome of the 2023 version I wonder? I think it is mid-table mediocrity for me. pjw1961 I am hoping to have time to tot it up in the next couple of days. Work did stop for the two bank holiday weekends, and those were spent with us both trying to out-nap a two-year-old - with some success thanks to grandparents being delighted to have the opportunity to muck in in the afternoons! I'm shocked! This implies that you yourself are not a grandparent. I thought that was an essential qualification to be on this site.
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Post by alec on Jan 3, 2024 22:37:34 GMT
Hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year celebration.
Headlines in Italy currently "Italian Hospitals Collapse" (Euronews) "Emergency Rooms Under Siege" (Ansa). High rates of covid hospitalisation and another bad flu season (missed the 'immunity debt' train) are the key drivers, and the Italian healthcare system is struggling to cope.
I'm guessing we'll have another round of British journalists desperately trying to ignore the collapse in UK A&E provision in the next week or two, and those that do venture into this territory will, without question, write about NHS funding, NHS reforms and doctors strikes, but the news from Italy (and Canada, parts of the US, Australia, Finland, and many other countries), should be sufficient to tell us that this isn't a peculiarly British problem. There's something bigger afoot.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 3, 2024 22:42:19 GMT
"Sir Ed Davey, who was postal affairs minister between 2010 and 2012 when the software issues started coming to light, said he regretted not doing more to help victims who were wrongly accused of stealing but claimed that executives had blocked him from meeting campaigners.
Speaking to Times Radio, he said: “I feel that I was deeply misled by Post Office executives … they didn’t come clean. There were definitely attempts to stop me meeting [campaigners].
“We were clearly misled. I think ministers from all political parties were misled.”
The post office relentlessly pursued postmasters between 1999 and 2015
They lied routinely to mps the public and their staff.
But for jib it's all down to Ed Davey who was postal affairs minister for around 18 months and was lied to as well.
Sometimes his obsession borders on the absurd.
Incidentally the post office privatisation didn't conclude until after the coalition government had terminated in October 2015, but obviously some how it was the lib dems privatisation.
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Post by mercian on Jan 3, 2024 22:42:29 GMT
A small glimmer of hope "UK use of gas and coal for electricity at lowest since 1957, figures show Fossil fuel plants contributed about a third of electricity supplies in 2023, down 20% on 2022 and renewables a record 42%" The increase in renewables includes substantial imports of hydropower generated energy from Norway and Nuclear power from France. The nimby attitude of the Tories makes on shore wind and solar generation, the cheapest green sources more difficult in the U.K. than in more enlightened parts of Europe. Perhaps because we have less room? We're about the most densely-populated country in Europe. I'm not going to bother looking it up, but possible Netherlands might be higher.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 3, 2024 22:55:43 GMT
So Rishi Sunak (born in Southampton in 1980) is by your reckoning not part of the native population given that his ancestors were not present in the UK before WWII - that despite being the Prime Minister. Boris Johnson was born in New York in 1964 and until he gave it up in 2016 had dual UK/US citizenship. Is he part of the the 'native population'? Does it matter that his paternal grandfather was Osman Kemal, son of Ali Kemal Bey, an Ottoman minister or that he also has German ancestry? I think you may find that your concept of 'native population', given the highly mixed ancestry of these Isles, is going to prove difficult to pin down. To give another example - are the many people of Irish heritage living in Britain part of the 'native population' or not? Individuals are irrelevant. The point I was trying to make was that the native population will have become a minority in a span of around 100 years. This in my view makes it at least comparable to the Anglo-Saxon invasion, and much greater in numerical terms than the Norman invasions. Both of those events caused massive changes to the culture and structure of society. To shrug off the current mass immigration as inevitable and not worth thinking about is very short-sighted. We will end up with a very different society to what we now have. I would like to think that our so-called leaders are at least considering what direction things may go, but I doubt it. Populations are made up of individuals. Lumping people together into great big clumps as if they were homogeneous is exactly the error you are making. You have made no attempt to answer the questions I asked about what constitutes "the native population". To pick another example - many white Australians come here to work for a while and many white South Africans and Zimbabweans have come to the UK in the last 25 years. Are you out waving placards protesting their arrival, because oddly enough I've never seen that happen, or is it only people with browner skin that are the problem?
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 3, 2024 22:57:23 GMT
Alec Looking at the article
"What is behind the hospital collapse? The rise in hospital admissions, which has put pressure on the Italian health system, is due to an increase in "respiratory diseases, especially among the elderly".
"*Covid has slightly decreased in the last week*, flu is spreading, but other viruses have also caused 'overcrowding' in hospitals and a very strong pressure on emergency services," De Laco explained on Tuesday, according to local media.
In fact, in the week before Christmas, from 18 to 24 December, "the influenza epidemic curve showed an incidence value never reached in previous seasons", according to the latest epidemiological bulletin from the Higher Institute of Health."
It's looking like a bad influenza season clearly the presence of significant numbers of covid cases doesn't neither does a rather unpleasant intestinal bug that's prevalent in Rome.
It's looking difficult particularly in the Rome region low rates of influenza and covid vaccine uptake certainly haven't helped.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jan 3, 2024 22:58:38 GMT
A small glimmer of hope "UK use of gas and coal for electricity at lowest since 1957, figures show Fossil fuel plants contributed about a third of electricity supplies in 2023, down 20% on 2022 and renewables a record 42%" The increase in renewables includes substantial imports of hydropower generated energy from Norway and Nuclear power from France. The nimby attitude of the Tories makes on shore wind and solar generation, the cheapest green sources more difficult in the U.K. than in more enlightened parts of Europe. Perhaps because we have less room? We're about the most densely-populated country in Europe. I'm not going to bother looking it up, but possible Netherlands might be higher. 11th, or 4th if you discount the micro-states. Turkey, Netherlands and Belgium are higher. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countries
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steve
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Post by steve on Jan 3, 2024 23:02:59 GMT
"Perhaps because we have less room? We're about the most densely-populated country in Europe. I'm not going to bother looking it "
I wouldn't look it up as it might make your comment look a bit daft Rural land makes up 90% of England in Scotland it's 98%. Land devoted to agricultural purposes covers three quarters of the uk.
You could house the 9000 On shore wind turbines in the uk in the space occupied by a single 18 hole golf course.
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Post by mercian on Jan 3, 2024 23:10:50 GMT
colin "O'Brien says that the database for all migrant visas is poor, the Home Office has no proper records and abuse is rife." I didn't quote the whole thing to save space but it is indeed a shocking situation. The last thing the country needs is a constant massive influx of low-paid or economically inactive people. Apart from anything else oversupply of labour will automatically depress wages, especially for the low-paid. They're only 'economically inactive' due to the Gov not letting them work. Oh! The old I give a crap about 'the low-paid' argument...until some tells me I should be paid less and they more. Until they strike, etc etc. An example is when people such as students are allowed to bring in relatives. This could include grannies and wives who wouldn't ne expected to work. The government is supposedly doing something about this but I am unsure whether it will actually happen.
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Post by mercian on Jan 3, 2024 23:53:10 GMT
Individuals are irrelevant. The point I was trying to make was that the native population will have become a minority in a span of around 100 years. This in my view makes it at least comparable to the Anglo-Saxon invasion, and much greater in numerical terms than the Norman invasions. Both of those events caused massive changes to the culture and structure of society. To shrug off the current mass immigration as inevitable and not worth thinking about is very short-sighted. We will end up with a very different society to what we now have. I would like to think that our so-called leaders are at least considering what direction things may go, but I doubt it. Populations are made up of individuals. Lumping people together into great big clumps as if they were homogeneous is exactly the error you are making. You have made no attempt to answer the questions I asked about what constitutes "the native population". To pick another example - many white Australians come here to work for a while and many white South Africans and Zimbabweans have come to the UK in the last 25 years. Are you out waving placards protesting their arrival, because oddly enough I've never seen that happen, or is it only people with browner skin that are the problem? I've never waved a placard about anything as far as I can remember. I did once go on a demo about getting out of Europe in the late 90s organised by the Referendum Party, long before UKIP became significant. I have repeatedly said on here that colour of skin is irrelevant to me. It's sheer numbers and the effect on our culture that matters. If for some reason millions of Frenchmen came over here and started pavement cafes and smoking Gauloise all over the place and being existential philosophers and making indecipherable films I would be equally concerned, if not more so.
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Post by mercian on Jan 3, 2024 23:59:16 GMT
"Perhaps because we have less room? We're about the most densely-populated country in Europe. I'm not going to bother looking it " I wouldn't look it up as it might make your comment look a bit daft Rural land makes up 90% of England in Scotland it's 98%. Land devoted to agricultural purposes covers three quarters of the uk. You could house the 9000 On shore wind turbines in the uk in the space occupied by a single 18 hole golf course. See pjw1961's post just before yours. He cites Netherlands Belgium and Turkey as the most densely populated European countries discounting micro-states. I don't think many would count Turkey as a European country as the bulk of it is in Asia Minor, so I wasn't far off. It was only a question anyway. Get off your high horse.
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Post by mercian on Jan 4, 2024 0:04:05 GMT
I had a pint with a pal tonight and a couple of remarks were made that I thought I'd pass on. In a comparison of Boris and Trump my mate said "I don't think Boris would start an insurrection". A bit later we were talking about the state of the country and he said "It's not as bad as Palestine". We had a really good belly-laugh imagining a party campaigning on those slogans: "Our leader probably won't start an insurrection" "It's not as bad as Palestine" EDIT: Just in case of the usual humourless misunderstandings, my chum was making a joke on both occasions.
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Post by guymonde on Jan 4, 2024 0:09:55 GMT
Perhaps because we have less room? We're about the most densely-populated country in Europe. I'm not going to bother looking it up, but possible Netherlands might be higher. 11th, or 4th if you discount the micro-states. Turkey, Netherlands and Belgium are higher. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countriesYeah, but aren't all the Turks going to come here? It's what Nigel said.
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 4, 2024 0:35:09 GMT
mercianYou right wingers are a scream. There's you '50s cravat-wearers coming out with the "our plucky overcrowded island" rift, zzzzz. On the other hand, we hv the National Conservatives, associated with some real extremists, fronted by eg. Cates's mob, telling us the current birth-rate drop presages a population collapse: neo-Malthusisn determinists coming to opposite conclusions. Don't worry sweetie; migrants will hv high fertility & save us.
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Post by robbiealive on Jan 4, 2024 0:43:46 GMT
Someone in UK Labour has been busy briefing the Guardian and the Times over the past couple of weeks. Four briefings on: 1. Starmer and Reeves looking at pulling back even further from the Green New Deal. 2. Labour looking at proposing a policy on offshoring asylum claims processing 3. Reeves looking at proposals to include income tax cuts in the Labour manifesto. 4.Labour's Director of Campaigns briefed the Shadow Cabinet on election campaigns where large poll leads disappeared during the campaign. Rolling the pitch for a further move to the right? On the other hand, Reeves made a forthright statement about Labour's policy on high Street candy stores. Thanks for the update. Most helpful. Any news on Operation Branchform. It's such a tangled web: some elucidation from the Nat posters would be most helpful as well.
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