neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 28, 2023 8:24:20 GMT
"James Cleverly🇬🇧 @jamescleverly · Follow There were no small boat arrivals over Christmas for the first time since they started in 2018." I'm sure I remember Christmases happening before 2018 and boats of various sizes crossing the channel in late December as early as 2017! Storm hits channel regime claims success! It's pathetic. James "Gravitas" (TM: Sage of Diversity, Sir Trevor Phillips) Cleverly is fast becoming the poster boy of government incompetence. Does anyone better exemplify the paucity of talent in Tory politics, or expose the danger of letting such utter mediocrities anywhere near the levers of power? I'm back to Cummings again with his thoughts on the nation being presented with Johnson and Corbyn as their choice for national leader in 2019. A clear sign our political system is broken. Cleverly is another canary in the mine signalling it really is time to essentially wrap it all up and start again. Conservative Party members choosing Rees-Mogg as back bencer of the year exemplifies the problems in the tory party. The fact the next three are Miriam Cates, Braverman and Lee Anderson drives the point home
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 28, 2023 8:36:22 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 28, 2023 8:38:34 GMT
James "Gravitas" (TM: Sage of Diversity, Sir Trevor Phillips) Cleverly is fast becoming the poster boy of government incompetence. Does anyone better exemplify the paucity of talent in Tory politics, or expose the danger of letting such utter mediocrities anywhere near the levers of power? I'm back to Cummings again with his thoughts on the nation being presented with Johnson and Corbyn as their choice for national leader in 2019. A clear sign our political system is broken. Cleverly is another canary in the mine signalling it really is time to essentially wrap it all up and start again. Conservative Party members choosing Rees-Mogg as back bencer of the year exemplifies the problems in the tory party. The fact the next three are Miriam Cates, Braverman and Lee Anderson drives the point home This is yet another symptom of a political party, and possibly a whole political culture too, marooned in self-absorption and utterly detached from the world outside its claustrophobic, introspective and tiny confines. This is what happens when politics detaches itself from the concept of public service and where there is little in the way of scrutiny or public accountability, either in Parliament, within political parties themselves or amongst an increasingly client media who have become more a conduit for government messaging rather than the people's tribune for telling truth to power. We are, to put it starkly, in a terrible, terrible mess.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 28, 2023 8:46:56 GMT
Braverman and Magners for me.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 28, 2023 9:03:24 GMT
crossbat11A gross slur on the importance of cherry b
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 28, 2023 9:19:46 GMT
colin you said: "The trick to pull off is to satisfy the demands of two groups-the better off "liberals" who can afford to worry about the rights of others ; and the less well off "conservatives" who must prioritise their own well being." - What a ludicrous statement. All those struggling retired conservatives who own their homes outright? It's especially ludicrous in this country where a conservative govt has done many many things to damage the economy and increase the outgoings of ordinary people over years from austerity to Truss via brexit. All those wealthy Americans who vote Republican for tax reasons and don't give a damn about anything else? There are plenty of 'haves' everywhere who are not liberal and/or don't give a damn for anything except their own wallets and there are plenty of 'have nots' including of course swathes of the young with no chance of getting on the housing ladder who are liberal. And the absurd idea that we're voting Labour mainly to bolster the rights of minorities.. I'm voting Labour so in time everyone feels they can trust the NHS to help them, so that schools are not literally falling apart as they are now and reliant on donations, so that working parents with young kids get pre school help, so that in realigning with the EU international investment returns and good job opportunities for all increase. I'm also voting Labour in no small part to have people with morality and ability in power, who respect our institutions, the law and procurement processes. In this country especially the battle will not be between haves and have nots with the absurd idea the 'haves' will mainly vote Labour. It will in great part between working families (remember them?) and the retired with their consequence free (for them) nationalist, nativist fantasies. I might sound angry. F*ing right.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 28, 2023 9:34:13 GMT
domjgIf I had been elected to office Iwould of course have voted liberal democrat at the next general election but unlike other parties as a lib dem party member you aren't required to be tribally loyal. We understand the failed nature of the democratic mandate in the U.K. because of FPTP and in many constituencies this means a choice between Labour or Tory. I'm not entirely certain whether that applies in my constituency, local factors and the success of lib dems parliamentary candidates in neighbouring constituencies, makes it a tricky one, but if it transpires that it does make sense to lend a vote to boot out the Tory then in common with the vast majority of liberal democrats I see far more shared aspirations between my party and the Labour party than with the tories and despite significant reservations about the direction of travel of the Labour leadership it's not a remotely difficult choice to make.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 9:43:43 GMT
Talking about complacency about political governance, didn't you vote for Johnson in 2019? Sorry to go on about that but it's hardly a good look to complain about the state of the world and the rise of populism if your actions contributed towards it, is it! Why don't you now spend your energy on exposing the toxic corrosive effects of the populists themselves as an act of penance instead of whining about the inadequate responses from the mainstream politicians to the concerns of 'ordinary people'. Isn't the focus of your energy being misdirected? It does seem to me that all you seem to be doing is saying ....well my guy has proven to be a 'bad un' but woe betide us all anyway because no one else has any (worthy of the name) answers either. That really does seem to be a grim relish that those of us looking for alternate solutions are inevitably going to fail as well. Remember at least our system of governance was able to bring to account the corrupt lying charlatan and through the bravery of people like Harriet Harman and the Privileges Committee get him exposed for what he was. This is something that seems impossible to do across the pond in relation to their corrupt lying charlatan! Thinking more generally and positively I'd like to add there has been some good under reported work done behind the scenes by policy influencers; the National Audit Office did a good report on fraud and a highly respected report was prepared by the Resolution Foundation on poverty, something for Starmer there to get his teeth into regarding future standards and values of governance if elected? www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/the-living-standards-outlook-2023/www.nao.org.uk/reports/tackling-fraud-and-corruption-against-government/Regarding the big picture the only way any of us can influence the outcome of 'global change' is to address the day to day issues we face in our own lives in a pro social way. Musing about the awful state of the world is really wasted energy especially if your one go to solution is to fixate on the vast movement of peoples across continents. You may as well complain about the tide coming in. Technology enables people living in poverty to observe a better future for themselves and their loved ones on a mobile phone. Those are the values that neo liberal capitalism is built on.....competition and opportunity taken by those who have the energy and drive to improve themselves. Free market capitalism is surely for everyone though, not just for people who live in rich countries. Perhaps you believe we should end capitalism now though, build the wall and raise the tariffs, now the wealth has been extracted, accumulated and distributed in a way that suits us. I doubt you'll get many takers for that argument though in China, India, Nigeria etc. Blimey !-where to start ? I am a voter. We get presented with choices every few years. In 2019 it was a government led by Johnson-or one led by Corbyn. So no contest for me. I didnt get a vote in Johnson's Leadership election as I'm not a Party Member. I would have preferred Hunt. I think Con Party members are now such a diminished and unrepresentative bunch they should not be allowed anywhere near the leadership choice. I think the same about the LP too after JC's populist army was assembled . MPs should chose their leader-and we choose them. I think that railing against "populism" ( aka extremist politics) AFTER voters have turned to it in despair is the waste of energy. Accusing voters of racism and xenophobia when the so called " mainstream party" in power waved aside their concerns about rapid , disorganised , social and economic change -which they didn't vote for. Voters are free agents. They get to choose. Thats how governments change. I couldn't disagree with you more that "musing" about global change is "wasted energy". Surely it is the duty of any politician who REALLY believes he/she serves the voters' interests to foresee change and prepare for it. And any way I find it interesting to try and understand what seems to be coming down the track. Just finally-this conversation started with me linking to a forecast of the perceived effects of a Trump victory on NATO ,and European defence. The perceptions of Prof Michael Clarke. They were frightening imo. I feel sure that Clarke , and people like him, will be very used to being told that they are doomsters and miserablists , by people who think that dramatic change can be avoided by ignoring it and calling it names.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 9:54:12 GMT
There are plenty of 'haves' everywhere who are not liberal and/or don't give a damn for anything except their own wallets and there are plenty of 'have nots' including of course swathes of the young with no chance of getting on the housing ladder who are liberal. I agree-yes it is a complex business to build a winning coalition. Perhaps that very fact indicates that there are too many "competing" groups in society. ie that unacceptable inequalities ( still) exist. You and I would probably disagree on the extent to which those could -or even should -exist.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 28, 2023 10:30:07 GMT
Colin
The links you selectively provide for our predilection all seem to take us to articles written by harbingers of doom and whilst our planet, and the various nations, peoples and societies that populate it, are faced with huge and ever evolving challenges, as it and they have always done since time began, they don't have to be "frightening" and insurmountable. And nor should those who choose a more hopeful and optimistic outlook be "called names" by those, like you, who like to paint themselves as the only adults in the room and our go-to realists fighting battles with head in the sand fantastists.
I suspect some of this is coming from your despair about the state, and electoral prospects of the Tory government that you have voted for and supported. A sort of if you're going to take my parade away from me then I'm as sure as hell going to piss on your chips in return.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 28, 2023 10:38:36 GMT
colin 'I think that railing against "populism" ( aka extremist politics) AFTER voters have turned to it in despair is the waste of energy. Accusing voters of racism and xenophobia when the so called " mainstream party" in power waved aside their concerns about rapid , disorganised , social and economic change -which they didn't vote for. Voters are free agents. They get to choose. Thats how governments change' I for one have never made a blanket accusation that voters are racist or xenophobic, my anger is firmly targeted at the populist who spout such crap. But what's the solution, should mainstream politicians just lie like Johnson and others did that the answer is easy and the problems are all to do with others. Should they say we are going to seriously reduce immigration while presiding over record levels of legal immigration as Johnson did? Should they say will be better but then make things worse as Johnson did? Or should they treat the voters as grown ups and explain there are no easy solutions. We do need immigrants with an aging point and a declining birth rate We can't afford tax cuts while having huge public debt and services in dire need of investment etc Unfortunately as I said before a populist message is much easier to transmit, okay we know it won't work, but it unfortunately can gets charlatans elected and some people desperately want to believe there is an easy answer
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Post by graham on Dec 28, 2023 11:54:55 GMT
Conservative Party members choosing Rees-Mogg as back bencer of the year exemplifies the problems in the tory party. The fact the next three are Miriam Cates, Braverman and Lee Anderson drives the point home This is yet another symptom of a political party, and possibly a whole political culture too, marooned in self-absorption and utterly detached from the world outside its claustrophobic, introspective and tiny confines. This is what happens when politics detaches itself from the concept of public service and where there is little in the way of scrutiny or public accountability, either in Parliament, within political parties themselves or amongst an increasingly client media who have become more a conduit for government messaging rather than the people's tribune for telling truth to power. We are, to put it starkly, in a terrible, terrible mess. I don't doubt that many Tory members would wish to have the opportunity to nominate Archibald Ramsay and/or John Hamilton Mackie. Alas neither are now available.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 28, 2023 11:58:24 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 28, 2023 12:12:22 GMT
"I don't doubt that many Tory members would wish to have the opportunity to nominate Archibald Ramsay and/or John Hamilton Mackie. Alas neither are now available"
Given that neither were actually members of the conservative party they'd probably have had to find alternative right wing nutters.
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Post by graham on Dec 28, 2023 12:18:08 GMT
"I don't doubt that many Tory members would wish to have the opportunity to nominate Archibald Ramsay and/or John Hamilton Mackie. Alas neither are now available" Given that neither were actually members of the conservative party they'd probably have had to find alternative right wing nutters. Both were Scottish Unionist MPs and ,therefore, Tories.
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Post by shevii on Dec 28, 2023 13:03:01 GMT
If Macron hadn't emerged, we may well have Le Pen in the Elysee Palace. Eh? Macron emerged at a time when the French people were always going to vote against Le Pen in a two horse final round and he's taken a comfortable win to Le pen getting 40% in a two horse race last time to a possible defeat in hypothetical polling (hypothetical because he can't stand again) in 2027. You could argue that always presidents and PMs reach their sell by date, especially in a time of economic crisis, but I would certainly argue that Macron hasn't done anything to diminish the far right in France by showing an alternative.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 28, 2023 13:33:08 GMT
grahamThe Scottish unionists merged with the tories in 1964 both the MPS you mentioned were dead by then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 13:51:40 GMT
Colin The links you selectively provide for our predilection all seem to take us to articles written by harbingers of doom and whilst our planet, and the various nations, peoples and societies that populate it, are faced with huge and ever evolving challenges, as it and they have always done since time began, they don't have to be "frightening" and insurmountable. And nor should those who choose a more hopeful and optimistic outlook be "called names" by those, like you, who like to paint themselves as the only adults in the room and our go-to realists fighting battles with head in the sand fantastists. I suspect some of this is coming from your despair about the state, and electoral prospects of the Tory government that you have voted for and supported. A sort of if you're going to take my parade away from me then I'm as sure as hell going to piss on your chips in return. It would , perhaps, be more constructive if you expressed an opinion on the likelihood of the event , whose effects Prof Clarke was evaluating, crystalising. ie Trump becoming POTUS next year. That is the issue-not whether I or anyone else should be contemplating its likely effects. I would welcome an informed view on this because a) I don't have one , and b) it WOULD change everything if it happens. There are a couple of reports today which count as good news I think. So in order to leave you in a Johnsonian frame of mind i selectively bring them to your attention:- "In its latest set of yearly predictions, the professional services group PwC expects Britain to be the fourth-best-performing economy in the G7 next year, beating France, Germany and Japan but trailing the United States, Canada and Italy. The size of the economy is expected to be 2.7 per cent larger on average, compared with pre-pandemic levels recorded in 2019. With energy costs falling sharply over the past year and the impact of high interest rates feeding through to the economy, PwC expects consumer prices inflation to drop close to, but still shy of, the Bank of England’s 2 per cent target rate next year. Barret Kupelian, the chief economist at PwC, said the “outlook is far rosier for 2024 than expected twelve months ago. Following the post-pandemic challenges, 2024 will be the year the UK turns a page. Inflation returning closer to normal levels, progress on regional growth and real incomes improving provides optimism for the year ahead, despite the legacy of higher consumer prices and rising housing costs.”" Times .......perhaps Rachel Reeves will follow in the footsteps of Gordon Brown ? and I'm sure we can both agree that this is tremendous news :- www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/27/vaccine-could-cut-rsv-hospital-admissions-in-babies-by-80-study-finds
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 14:03:36 GMT
Or should they treat the voters as grown ups and explain there are no easy solutions. Yes. You know as well as I what the whole Continent is trying to do on immigration now-limit it by offshoring asylum applications and keeping those who get through in detention centres. Dublin/Shengen are in tatters with border controls appearing again. Whether this will see off the sort of political choices being seen in Denmark, Netherlands , Italy and Germany-I have no idea. I take the view that climate change , the exploding African populations-and inevitable wars are not going to make this problem any easier in future. On the economy /public services, if politicians cannot facilitate/engineer sufficient economic growth to generate adequate tax revenues then shouldn't they be admitting that taxes will need to rise ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 14:05:52 GMT
If Macron hadn't emerged, we may well have Le Pen in the Elysee Palace. Eh? Macron emerged at a time when the French people were always going to vote against Le Pen in a two horse final round and he's taken a comfortable win to Le pen getting 40% in a two horse race last time to a possible defeat in hypothetical polling (hypothetical because he can't stand again) in 2027. You could argue that always presidents and PMs reach their sell by date, especially in a time of economic crisis, but I would certainly argue that Macron hasn't done anything to diminish the far right in France by showing an alternative. I agree. www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-gerald-darmanin-immigration-bill-defeat/
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Post by graham on Dec 28, 2023 14:25:54 GMT
graham The Scottish unionists merged with the tories in 1964 both the MPS you mentioned were dead by then. So Alec Douglas - Home was not a Tory when he became PM in October 1963?
The party became known as the Conservative & Unionist party in 1909. The Liberal Unionists joined it in 1912. Neville Chamberlain always called himself a Unionist - never a Conservative.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 28, 2023 14:44:19 GMT
Or should they treat the voters as grown ups and explain there are no easy solutions. Yes. You know as well as I what the whole Continent is trying to do on immigration now-limit it by offshoring asylum applications and keeping those who get through in detention centres. Dublin/Shengen are in tatters with border controls appearing again. Whether this will see off the sort of political choices being seen in Denmark, Netherlands , Italy and Germany-I have no idea. I take the view that climate change , the exploding African populations-and inevitable wars are not going to make this problem any easier in future. On the economy /public services, if politicians cannot facilitate/engineer sufficient economic growth to generate adequate tax revenues then shouldn't they be admitting that taxes will need to rise ? Thanks for the reply, my point is that 95% of immigration in the UK is coming with the blessing of the Government. We need these people and the Government should acknowledge that, rather than keep banging on about the 5% which comes by other means and some fantasy Rwandan scheme as a solution to the problem. Your second point is what I was trying to say, although even if we get economic growth that should be better used to improve services and reduce public debt until we are back on an even keel. When and if we can afford tax cuts it should be on raising tax thresholds with inflation and perhaps more, to help ameliorate the real terms tax rises not raising thresholds have caused
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Post by robbiealive on Dec 28, 2023 14:55:53 GMT
TRAIN NEWS 1. I at stuck at Leighton Buzzard station --- London as there has been a fatality It is so rustic, the platform covered in windfall apples. It may be hours! So I'm reduced to reading UPR2. 2. Graham. The problem with killing people is you don't know what will happen next. Anyway why kill Hitler in '44 given the mess he was making. It may hv led to attempts at a separate peace with the West etc. Of course if you as a Christian are riven with a simple blood lust . . .
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 28, 2023 14:58:32 GMT
If Macron hadn't emerged, we may well have Le Pen in the Elysee Palace. Eh? Macron emerged at a time when the French people were always going to vote against Le Pen in a two horse final round and he's taken a comfortable win to Le pen getting 40% in a two horse race last time to a possible defeat in hypothetical polling (hypothetical because he can't stand again) in 2027. You could argue that always presidents and PMs reach their sell by date, especially in a time of economic crisis, but I would certainly argue that Macron hasn't done anything to diminish the far right in France by showing an alternative. I think Le Pen may well have beaten Hollande, had he stood for re-election, or a more conventional centre-right or centre-left candidate in 2017, such was the paucity of electable candidates representing what was left of the Gaullist and Socialist parties then. I think it's possible too that a weaker incumbent than Macron may well have lost to Le Pen in 2022 too. Of course it's always possible to despair at the amount of support Le Pen attracted in those two elections but she was defeated in both and kept out of power. I think that's a very large glass half-filled with water. Electoral politics is about winning. The long game, I accept, is winning the battle of ideas, and the game is still on, but it's better to keep politicians like Le Pen, and her followers, away from the levers of power. Macron and his new party have done that twice. For that I'm hugely grateful and appreciative. I suspect many French people are too. Probably more so than me.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 28, 2023 14:59:02 GMT
Eh? Macron emerged at a time when the French people were always going to vote against Le Pen in a two horse final round and he's taken a comfortable win to Le pen getting 40% in a two horse race last time to a possible defeat in hypothetical polling (hypothetical because he can't stand again) in 2027. You could argue that always presidents and PMs reach their sell by date, especially in a time of economic crisis, but I would certainly argue that Macron hasn't done anything to diminish the far right in France by showing an alternative. I agree. www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-gerald-darmanin-immigration-bill-defeat/I don't!
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Post by mercian on Dec 28, 2023 15:03:47 GMT
I would be interested in opinions on why there is no real third force in US politics. I presume it's something to do with the system they use, and while I know a bit about it I can't quite put my finger on why third parties are effectively excluded altogether. Money? To stand any chance in US politics, you have to spend a huge amount. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy - difficult to raise that sort of cash unless you can show a realistic chance of being successful, which historically has meant being Democrat or Republican? And yes to the previous point. If I was eligible to vote it would go to Biden - but simply because he's not Trump. Lesser of two evils. Hardly a ringing endorsement. Thanks for that. It makes we wonder whether any of the tech billionaires could become president. At the moment they seem happy to just pull the strings. Your reason for preferring Biden seems to be the same as why Labour look like winning the next election.
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Post by robbiealive on Dec 28, 2023 15:09:14 GMT
Train Tales 2. Sport continues to be the cover for espionage with the usual complex code. The Greens, maroons, hatters, cherries, blades, scrogs. Etc The whole thing organised by Sophy Garters the 1st trans linesperson. Me. I follow the Chateaubriands.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 28, 2023 15:11:18 GMT
Colin The links you selectively provide for our predilection all seem to take us to articles written by harbingers of doom and whilst our planet, and the various nations, peoples and societies that populate it, are faced with huge and ever evolving challenges, as it and they have always done since time began, they don't have to be "frightening" and insurmountable. And nor should those who choose a more hopeful and optimistic outlook be "called names" by those, like you, who like to paint themselves as the only adults in the room and our go-to realists fighting battles with head in the sand fantastists. I suspect some of this is coming from your despair about the state, and electoral prospects of the Tory government that you have voted for and supported. A sort of if you're going to take my parade away from me then I'm as sure as hell going to piss on your chips in return. It would , perhaps, be more constructive if you expressed an opinion on the likelihood of the event , whose effects Prof Clarke was evaluating, crystalising. ie Trump becoming POTUS next year. That is the issue-not whether I or anyone else should be contemplating its likely effects. I would welcome an informed view on this because a) I don't have one , and b) it WOULD change everything if it happens. There are a couple of reports today which count as good news I think. So in order to leave you in a Johnsonian frame of mind i selectively bring them to your attention:- "In its latest set of yearly predictions, the professional services group PwC expects Britain to be the fourth-best-performing economy in the G7 next year, beating France, Germany and Japan but trailing the United States, Canada and Italy. The size of the economy is expected to be 2.7 per cent larger on average, compared with pre-pandemic levels recorded in 2019. With energy costs falling sharply over the past year and the impact of high interest rates feeding through to the economy, PwC expects consumer prices inflation to drop close to, but still shy of, the Bank of England’s 2 per cent target rate next year. Barret Kupelian, the chief economist at PwC, said the “outlook is far rosier for 2024 than expected twelve months ago. Following the post-pandemic challenges, 2024 will be the year the UK turns a page. Inflation returning closer to normal levels, progress on regional growth and real incomes improving provides optimism for the year ahead, despite the legacy of higher consumer prices and rising housing costs.”" Times .......perhaps Rachel Reeves will follow in the footsteps of Gordon Brown ? and I'm sure we can both agree that this is tremendous news :- www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/27/vaccine-could-cut-rsv-hospital-admissions-in-babies-by-80-study-finds No need, Col. The current opinion polls are providing me with all the optimism I need for now! More seriously, and you may have missed the thoughts I've shared on this before on this forum, but I'm not at all convinced that Trump will be elected as President next year. In fact, I think the prospect highly unlikely and I suspect some of the excitement being generated in right-wing circles around the globe is very premature and overblown. It might even be some mock shock-horror that disguises a slight frisson of excitement at the prospect that the old ogre cum hero cum prize liberal-baiter is going to make a comeback. I think there are much more optimistic scenarios on offer for both US politics and their economy. I'm with the angels on what may be in store. If you want cheering up, this is worth a read: - www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/trump-2024-win-why-unlikely/676354/P.S. On the UK economy, the recent poor growth figures suggest we splutter along apace but I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised if the Price Waterhouse forecasts you've pointed us to come true. If so, will they be good enough to save Sunak's government? What do you think? Is it a government worth saving in order to keep Starmer out?
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Post by shevii on Dec 28, 2023 15:23:25 GMT
I'm never quite sure whether to like your posts of not! I agree with a lot of what you are saying in your previous posts but, arguing against myself on Macron to some extent, I think a lot of the West's current leaders are inheriting bad decisions from 30-40 years ago and haven't a clue or the tools to make things better for their populations. I do agree with you though that mainstream politicians seem stuck in the headlights and sticking to "moderate" policies that no longer work. They are at it now arguing like rats in a sack about how far and how quickly they go on global warming. When globalisation and multinationals really took off Western governments failed to create checks and balances, and these are much harder to put into place now. Politicians of the era seemed to take the view that getting things cheaper through international trade and movement of capital and people was a good thing, competition with countries on a fraction of the wages would be a good thing that would push us to be more efficient, and we could go off and do other things which we were "good at". Unfortunately there weren't too many of them and as we've seen in the past the countries that actually make things tend to become the innovators themselves. We saw with covid that we had very little security in all sorts of areas and our ability to react quickly with things like PPE etc and we saw with Ukraine a creaking insecurity in food and energy prices. It did more or less hold but not without a big downturn. To make the improvements we need for a stable and healthy economy actually means accepting that we have to pay more for home produced goods and that's probably something the electorate won't stomach simply because things will cost more and even fairly liberal people still shriek if you talk about any form of "protectionism". Unfortunately we also have countries, multinationals and oligarchs who already have a very firm grip on natural resources so even if we wanted to it's going to be very hard and painful to take a step back from the current world economic situation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2023 15:27:07 GMT
No need, Col. The current opinion polls are providing me with all the optimism I need for now! If you want cheering up, this is worth a read: - www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/trump-2024-win-why-unlikely/676354/P.S. On the UK economy, the recent poor growth figures suggest we splutter along apace but I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised if the Price Waterhouse forecasts you've pointed us to come true. If so, will they be good enough to save Sunak's government? What do you think? Is it a government worth saving in order to keep Starmer out? Of course-who wouldn't be ? ! That article is paywalled for me. But I note your scepticism about Trump's chances. I get quite confused about the interaction of the court cases and the election. But the opolls there aren't encouraging for Biden so I reman very concerned. No-I cannot perceive of anything which will save Sunak. I expect him to have a very difficult campaign, with KS shooting many of his foxes leaving him frustrated and angry. Which isnt a good look. Ah-the $65000 question ! I like Sunak. In more stable times he could be a decent PM in my view. And I honestly doubt there is actually much difference between him & KS . I think they are both decent people and neither is likely to do much that I would find grossly unacceptable.( I will probably live to regret that statement ! ) The difference between them is the control they have within their own party. KS seems to have a firm grip on his. Sunak doesn't.
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