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Post by shevii on Dec 21, 2023 11:26:31 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 21, 2023 11:37:31 GMT
sheviiDeclassified describes itself as "the leading media organisation uncovering the UK's role in the world" I fail to see criticism of Keir Starmer's expenses claims when not an MP or leader of the opposition from more than a decade age has the remotest relevance to current events. It smacks of an attempt at deflection to be honest.
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Post by Mark on Dec 21, 2023 11:43:15 GMT
The NHS is my number one priority when it comes to casting my vote. Not my only priority, but, it's there at the top.
I have to say, Streeting makes me nervous.
I cannot disagree with a fair few of his priorities taken individually, more scanners, for example, but, the bigger picture doesn't fill me with confidence.
He seems to want to actually do rather than just be seen to be doing, so...
Cutting waste - I'm not saying that there isn't any waste, but, governments, both Labour and Tory, have been banging on about this for decades. Usually when they want to be seen to be doing rather than actually doing. Indeed, it was a regular go-to for Jim Hacker in the "Yes Minister / Yes Prime Minister" days.
(For younger members, it's well worth watching....and it's on Veoh (a youtube like site) Simply type, for example "Veoh Yes Minister 1.1" (for series 1 episode 1) into Google / DuckDuck and you'll find it).
Streeting talks about "no extra money" when the NHS has been underfunded for years.
Funding that he does talk about is to come from ending non-doms status, not a bad thing in itself, but, also seems to be the go-to for anything that will need funding.
He also talks endlessly about "reforn", without realy outlining what reforms he has in the pipeline. That makes me very nervous.
For me, as well as funding it properly, which should be a no-brainer, there are two major things that need doing.
Firstly, a comprehensive public care sector. Working in thissector is a highly qualified job. It's more than wiping people's arses for them.
People working in care homes, need, for example, to be qualified to give people injections. They would need to be able to cope with, for example, someone with dementia, or not in control of their own faculties, turning nasty.
If the cre sector offers pay that is not really much more than you'd get stacking shelves in Tesco, the care sector will continue to struggle.
The second thing is to make nursing doctors consultants etc. jobs attrctive again. Yes, pay them properly for starters, but, conditions as well.
As well as this, stop the immigrant bashing. Even if, in the long term, we have many more UK staff, that will take at least decade to achieve, so, in the meantime, we need people to come here from outside the UK.
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Post by alec on Dec 21, 2023 11:49:08 GMT
Danny - "Whoever has actually conducted mass public testing to find out the true off season prevalence of flu, etc? No one?" Absolutely. No one has ever done this. Apart from the network of 200 GPs surgeries in the RGCP Sentinel Monitoring scheme, the ONS in their expanded random national infection survey, the UKHSA in their SIREN healthcare cohort study, the weekly Flu Survey, and analysis of google analytics, the NHS via their Respiratory Datamart system, microbiological surveillance, and the HSE through their secondary SARI Outbreak surveillance scheme, with most of the above having run for decades, no one has ever thought of doing this. Amazing! You know what Danny boy - you're just so clever, why don't you write to the government and suggest they do a bit of monitoring? Or - just maybe - you could pull your head from your own arse for half a second and actually try to understand some basic facts about whatever subject you choose to pontificate about?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 11:53:13 GMT
New polling that might indicate that the situation regarding the presidential polling isn't actually reflective of the likely outcome. In polling yesterday by the New York Times 25% of republican supporters think the traitor should be prevented from standing if he's found guilty of a crime, he's indicted on 91 and 20% of republicans think he should go to prison if found guilty. Only 60% say they would vote for him in these circumstances down by a third since July. youtu.be/ZB6xyva9i_s?si=sPE3EccaDzFfj0OIOne of the reasons why I think Trump hasn't got a cat in hell's chance of winning a Presidential race next year. Assuming that he even makes it on to the ballot paper, that is. Still a big assumption in my book. Interestingly, there is some polling evidence emerging now that other Republican candidates like Nikki Haley are closing on him in some of the state primary opinion polls. I have a hunch that his bid may well collapse quite quickly. I said a few months ago that I am far more concerned about Nikki Haley than Trump as, superficially, she doesn’t come over as insane, expresses herself intelligently but is actually full-on, right wing bonkers.
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pete1
New Member
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Post by pete1 on Dec 21, 2023 12:25:00 GMT
Jewish P.O.Ws dug tunnels in THEIR concentration camps during the war. Maybe that's where Hamas got the idea from!
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Post by peterbell on Dec 21, 2023 12:28:56 GMT
@danny, why don't you give it a rest. NINE consequtive posts this morning followed by three a short time later. It's not as though they contain any useful info or comments. Have you not noticed that you hardly ever receive a like, probably because nobody bothers reading them.
Save yourself some time by limiting your posts and save the rest of us time by not having to scroll past numerous posts.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 21, 2023 13:41:57 GMT
Have you ever considered a job at the Daily Mail?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 13:53:49 GMT
@danny, why don't you give it a rest. NINE consequtive posts this morning followed by three a short time later. It's not as though they contain any useful info or comments. Have you not noticed that you hardly ever receive a like, probably because nobody bothers reading them. Save yourself some time by limiting your posts and save the rest of us time by not having to scroll past numerous posts. If one out of the pairs Alec & Danny and Jib & Steve stopped engaging with the other it would make this place so much more interesting and easier to navigate.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 21, 2023 14:23:16 GMT
@bretttrevalyan
I get your point but Alec and Danny's engagement with each other rather dwarfs my responses to jib.
I post a lot as you might have noticed I doubt more than 2% of the posts engage with jib, mind you half of theirs appear to relate to criticism of the junior partners in the coalition government of a decade ago and his perception that somehow they enabled the Brexit that he voted for.
It does seem something of a unique obsession but if it floats his boat it's up to him.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 21, 2023 14:27:50 GMT
One of the reasons why I think Trump hasn't got a cat in hell's chance of winning a Presidential race next year. Assuming that he even makes it on to the ballot paper, that is. Still a big assumption in my book. Interestingly, there is some polling evidence emerging now that other Republican candidates like Nikki Haley are closing on him in some of the state primary opinion polls. I have a hunch that his bid may well collapse quite quickly. I said a few months ago that I am far more concerned about Nikki Haley than Trump as, superficially, she doesn’t come over as insane, expresses herself intelligently but is actually full-on, right wing bonkers. My main concern about her, and this is for UKPR1 diehards to recall from the days when I used to use my actual name to post, is that both her first name and surname are uncomfortably close to my own. I fear that if she makes it the White House I may be the recipient of a lot of misdirected hate mail from 2025 onwards. A bit like that poor fellow from Uruguay called El Nino who got a terrible amount of grief for droughts and heatwaves in the Southern Hemisphere.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 21, 2023 14:38:08 GMT
Have you ever considered a job at the Daily Mail? Shevii conveniently overlooked the other photograph taken on that Ryanair flight taking Starmer to Estonia. At the back of the plane, surrounded by a bevy of photographers, was a certain Jeremy Corbyn, crouched on the floor near the toilet cubicle. He was surrounded by the detritus of a recently purchased and reasonably priced meal that was available on the plane. Whether he is going to claim it back on expenses is unknown. He refused to answer questions on the matter. There were plenty of empty seats on the plane but Corbyn was staging a protest about crowded budget airline flights. He also objected to Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary's stance on Palestine, as well as cabin crew wage rates on budget airlines more generally. The stuff of proper politics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 14:43:06 GMT
crossbat11Re Nikki Haley “ My main concern about her, and this is for UKPR1 diehards to recall from the days when I used to use my actual name to post, is that both her first name and surname are uncomfortably close to my own. I fear that if she makes it the White House I may be the recipient of a lot of misdirected hate mail from 2025 onwards. “ Make a nice change from the genuine ones surely?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 14:48:31 GMT
@danny, why don't you give it a rest. NINE consequtive posts this morning followed by three a short time later. It's not as though they contain any useful info or comments. Have you not noticed that you hardly ever receive a like, probably because nobody bothers reading them. Save yourself some time by limiting your posts and save the rest of us time by not having to scroll past numerous posts. I wonder how many of his near to 7000 posts have been read by nobody. (Well, excluding alec of course. ) I must have inadvertently read a dozen or so I guess.
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patrickbrian
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These things seem small and undistinguishable, like far off mountains turned into clouds
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Post by patrickbrian on Dec 21, 2023 15:14:18 GMT
I often read Danny's posts. He has his own unique take on things, and some of them are very interesting
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Post by athena on Dec 21, 2023 15:18:00 GMT
I quite agree that Wales has been disadvantaged, compared with Scotland, in the amount of their taxes being returned to them (UK taxes aren't just "English"), although they do fare better than areas of England, where there is no convention as to the public spending in their part of the UK. Consequently, when those in the North of England vote Labour or Tory (reliant as these partiers are on votes in the most populous parts of that fair polity) they get shafted worse than anybody else in the UK. [italics added] ... and don't some of us know it! I know you aren't a fan of my proposed Federal Republic of Britain, but it would be helpful for supporters of English regional governments to have Scotland and Wales as allies. I suppose reforming the union isn't in the interests of a party that wants it abolished. I don't know the details of the Barnett formula, but the principle seems sound. The central government raises most of the tax, but regional administrations provide some of the services and need sufficient funding to do so. That amount will vary according to the size and demography of the local population, hence centrally raised taxes are distributed so as to enable all the regions to provide equivalent levels of services (e.g. a regions with more oldies gets more per person for health services). Australia calls this horizontal redistribution, whilst redistribution from the federal govt to state governments is termed vertical redistribution. Without a formula of some sort there's always going to be a risk that vertical redistribution is politically motivated (as is currently the case for spending on services in the English regions). The interesting issue is how much of the funding required for services should be raised centrally and how much by the regional/state/devolved administrations. In Australia the states get about 45 percent of their income from the federal govt, on average; the federal govt controls a much greater percentage of tax revenues than it needs to deliver the services that are federal responsibilities. Some of the federal taxes (notably their version of VAT) is distributed according to a horizontal redistribution formula and is untied money, but quite a lot is distributed as tied grants, allowing the federal government to influence policy at state level and to favour state governments with a friendly premier.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 21, 2023 15:43:48 GMT
I often read Danny's posts. He has his own unique take on things, and some of them are very interesting Counselling is available, I understand, Patrick, although not available on the NHS, unfortunately. There is a charity based in Hastings that provides sessions for those traumatised by the lingering after effects of the first wave of COVID that hit the moribund old seaside town in early 2019. I gather they also offer counselling for people who have become addicted to Danny's posts. Their office and therapy rooms are located just off Wuhan Square and quite near where the statue of Danny has been erected. This monument, entitled simply "To the Pandemic Prophet", has become a favourite perching point for the local seagull population as the hungry birds, deprived of their favourite diet of fish and chips in the winter close season, await the twilight return of the flotilla of small fishing boats from yonder seas. Heavily laden with sardines that they swoop upon ravenously. Eric Cantona has written about this spectacilar seabird behaviour before, I believe.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 21, 2023 16:00:06 GMT
I have until now been unable to log-in to the site today due to some weird technical glitch and yet nobody has assumed i'm dead. Deeply hurt!
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pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 21, 2023 16:04:43 GMT
steve The received wisdom about the NHS, particularly on the right of British politics, but not exclusively so, is that spending more money on it is the equivalent of pouring money down the drain because the model is broken. This is convenient politically as well as economically because it plays into the public bad/private good narrative and derides an essentially socialist institution and principle. Unless it's "fundamentally reformed" it has no future is the assumption. It's obvious that an organisation that provides free at the point of use healthcare for over 60 million people will have examples of waste and inefficiency and will be in need of continual modernisation and adaptation. Not least because of medical advances and a growing population with ever more complex health issues. Prevention better than cure and treatment; Streeting is spot on with that shift in emphasis. But it seems to me that we often miss an obvious truth that we should have learned during the Blair and Brown years. If you spend more money on healthcare, outcomes improve. Not spend more as in meeting rising costs, but lifting the amount you spend as a proportion of GDP to effect transformational change in outcomes and patient satisfaction. Through the Thatcher years, and as now, we lagged way behind other equivalent nations in terms of what we spent on our health service as a proportion of GDP. Blair and Brown, once they freed themselves from the shackles of sticking with Major and Clarke's inherited spending plans, lifted spending on the NHS to historically high levels. It improved accordingly. Not to idyllic faultless levels of performance, but to levels that improved millions of people's lives. I think Starmer and Streeting, should, they make it into power next year, will have to find ways to inject vastly more resources into healthcare if it is to be improved. Private involvement is not a bad thing in itself, but the service is now chronically under-resourced. Staffing, pay, equipment, infrastructure, IT etc They mustn't go down the right wing rabbit hole that argues that the NHS is failing because it's an inherently bad model of healthcare provision. It isn't. It's been nobbled by a governing party, in power for thirteen years now, who suffer it unenthusiastically and don't really believe in it. I agree with that, but unfortunately the last 13 years has also broken the police, courts, prisons, social services, local government, roads, house building, the asylum system, in fact basically the entire public sector and parts of the private one as well, and they all need urgent attention and lots of money. Surely the worst period of government since at least the 1930s.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 21, 2023 16:17:39 GMT
I have until now been unable to log-in to the site today due to some weird technical glitch and yet nobody has assumed i'm dead. Deeply hurt! I was worried about you, pj. I even checked the local weather forecast for Braintree to see if Storm Pia had wreaked havoc in that corner of Essex. I was relieved to see you had escaped the worst of it Good to hear from you nonetheless.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 21, 2023 16:22:01 GMT
I have until now been unable to log-in to the site today due to some weird technical glitch and yet nobody has assumed i'm dead. Deeply hurt! I was worried about you, pj. I even checked the local weather forecast for Braintree to see if Storm Pia had wreaked havoc in that corner of Essex. I was relieved to see you had escaped the worst of it Good to hear from you nonetheless. I thought you were on a bargain break in Hastings.
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Post by bardin1 on Dec 21, 2023 16:31:19 GMT
The NHS is my number one priority when it comes to casting my vote. Not my only priority, but, it's there at the top. I have to say, Streeting makes me nervous. I cannot disagree with a fair few of his priorities taken individually, more scanners, for example, but, the bigger picture doesn't fill me with confidence. He seems to want to actually do rather than just be seen to be doing, so... Cutting waste - I'm not saying that there isn't any waste, but, governments, both Labour and Tory, have been banging on about this for decades. Usually when they want to be seen to be doing rather than actually doing. Indeed, it was a regular go-to for Jim Hacker in the "Yes Minister / Yes Prime Minister" days. (For younger members, it's well worth watching....and it's on Veoh (a youtube like site) Simply type, for example "Veoh Yes Minister 1.1" (for series 1 episode 1) into Google / DuckDuck and you'll find it). Streeting talks about "no extra money" when the NHS has been underfunded for years. Funding that he does talk about is to come from ending non-doms status, not a bad thing in itself, but, also seems to be the go-to for anything that will need funding. He also talks endlessly about "reforn", without realy outlining what reforms he has in the pipeline. That makes me very nervous. For me, as well as funding it properly, which should be a no-brainer, there are two major things that need doing. Firstly, a comprehensive public care sector. Working in thissector is a highly qualified job. It's more than wiping people's arses for them. People working in care homes, need, for example, to be qualified to give people injections. They would need to be able to cope with, for example, someone with dementia, or not in control of their own faculties, turning nasty. If the cre sector offers pay that is not really much more than you'd get stacking shelves in Tesco, the care sector will continue to struggle. The second thing is to make nursing doctors consultants etc. jobs attrctive again. Yes, pay them properly for starters, but, conditions as well. As well as this, stop the immigrant bashing. Even if, in the long term, we have many more UK staff, that will take at least decade to achieve, so, in the meantime, we need people to come here from outside the UK. Time and again politicians fail to grasp the nettle that we will need to pay more if we want a better NHS or even to stand still. My wife is currently doing night shifts at the local care home (8-8). Her pay , £10.90 an hour before tax. Why would any young person go into the care sector if that is the pay level for what is actually a skilled task (lifting people, attending to their sanitary needs, showering them for example).
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 21, 2023 16:32:28 GMT
Danny - "Whoever has actually conducted mass public testing to find out the true off season prevalence of flu, etc? No one?" Absolutely. No one has ever done this. Apart from the network of 200 GPs surgeries in the RGCP Sentinel Monitoring scheme, the ONS in their expanded random national infection survey, the UKHSA in their SIREN healthcare cohort study, the weekly Flu Survey, and analysis of google analytics, the NHS via their Respiratory Datamart system, microbiological surveillance, and the HSE through their secondary SARI Outbreak surveillance scheme, with most of the above having run for decades, no one has ever thought of doing this. Amazing! You know what Danny boy - you're just so clever, why don't you write to the government and suggest they do a bit of monitoring? Or - just maybe - you could pull your head from your own arse for half a second and actually try to understand some basic facts about whatever subject you choose to pontificate about? You are making my point, not your own. Yes these people do survey for flu. But if you go and look at exactly what they survey, they DO NOT randomly test the public to see if they have flu. They only at most look at people with possible flu symptoms. They dont look at all at anyone asymptomatic to see if they might have flu. If someone has the symptoms of a cold, well thats not flu. If there are just a few cases, well most of these serices just ignore it because 10,000 or so cases a year is totally normal and they deliberately have a threshold set to ignore a normal number. Its only if they get a surge they call any sort of alarm.
Most of the surveying is medically reported cases which have then been tested and confirmed as flu. Again, any illness which does not test positive for flu is deliberately ignored, so for example winter 2019 they would have eliminated anyone with covid in hospital, because it definitely wasnt flu and so they were not interested. But if you have flu but never mention it to a medical professional, it would never get reported.
You are making my point that there could be 100,000 cases of flu every day in the UK, just as there are covid, but hardly anyone would report this to medical services if their flu was as mild as most of those covid cases now. Covid is uniquely still being recorded eg by zoe, who I think are the only people still doing it, and their effort is winding down.
Covid was the first time in history mass screening of a disease was used. So we do not know what other diseases are really doing in their off/asymptomatic season. What you can say is they do not die out, and they can only survive inside people who catch them. So there must be all year round cases, we just dont notice.
As to government, they know all this. The services are set up deliberately not to call any sort of alarm unless it goes above typical seasonal levels of serious disease. And actually mass screening would be very expensive and totally pointless, unless there was something you could do as a result. Which there isnt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 16:41:20 GMT
I have until now been unable to log-in to the site today due to some weird technical glitch and yet nobody has assumed i'm dead. Deeply hurt! I did.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 21, 2023 16:41:28 GMT
@danny, why don't you give it a rest. NINE consequtive posts this morning followed by three a short time later. It's not as though they contain any useful info or comments. Have you not noticed that you hardly ever receive a like, probably because nobody bothers reading them. Save yourself some time by limiting your posts and save the rest of us time by not having to scroll past numerous posts. If one out of the pairs Alec & Danny and Jib & Steve stopped engaging with the other it would make this place so much more interesting and easier to navigate. Certainly easier to navigate...but hold on, what exactly do you mean? Do you skip back and forth checking old posts? There are thousands without any of the above. So what do you mean exactly? There is a solution, if you dont want to see them, you can set your acount to hide them. Or just skip them. No reason for them to bother you at all. Or are you afraid other people might read them and think they make sense? Is that what bothers you, because you think they really do make sense and you are afraid others might think so too? It is pretty seldom I get an actual factual refutation of what I write. Its usually ad hominem attacks. Which in general means someone is attacking the person, because they cannot attack the facts. Case above, Alec disagrees there has never been testing for any disease on the scale done for covid. He lists some surveys, but then the debate halts when I point out these dont do what he believes they do. We have indeed been round this loop before, he keeps bringing up the subject of covid. Another political trick, if you repeat something enough then it gets believed. We should keep a scoreboard whose references more often are right. Steve gets attacked because he is the only one really standing up for the libs, and neither lab or con supporters like that. Neither lab or con like criticism of the handling of the epidemic, while libs are more ambivalent. Its fascinating how people's posting reflects their political affiliation.
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Post by mercian on Dec 21, 2023 17:16:02 GMT
I agree with that, but unfortunately the has 13 years has also broken the police, courts, prisons, social services, local government, roads, house building, the asylum system, in fact basically the entire public sector and parts of the private one as well, and they all need urgent attention and lots of money. Surely the worst period of government since at least the 1930s. You lot keep saying stuff like this but I can't say I've noticed anything, apart from the asylum system. Mind you I have little or no contact with police, courts, social services and so on.
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Post by jib on Dec 21, 2023 17:18:50 GMT
@bretttrevalyan I get your point but Alec and Danny's engagement with each other rather dwarfs my responses to jib. I post a lot as you might have noticed I doubt more than 2% of the posts engage with jib, mind you half of theirs appear to relate to criticism of the junior partners in the coalition government of a decade ago and his perception that somehow they enabled the Brexit that he voted for. It does seem something of a unique obsession but if it floats his boat it's up to him. Obsession? I think I'm with the majority who've made up their mind regarding the midwives of austerity. Just do a quick search on X if you don't believe me. You just keep posting about your obsession with the Donald and dreaming of winning Cardiff Central, Southport and Brent. No chance mate!
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 21, 2023 17:30:53 GMT
I have until now been unable to log-in to the site today due to some weird technical glitch and yet nobody has assumed i'm dead. Deeply hurt! I had the same issue earlier, I had to go to the main proboards page and log in afresh from there.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 21, 2023 17:57:42 GMT
I agree with that, but unfortunately the has 13 years has also broken the police, courts, prisons, social services, local government, roads, house building, the asylum system, in fact basically the entire public sector and parts of the private one as well, and they all need urgent attention and lots of money. Surely the worst period of government since at least the 1930s. You lot keep saying stuff like this but I can't say I've noticed anything, apart from the asylum system. Mind you I have little or no contact with police, courts, social services and so on. You presumably don't get out much to see the state of road surfaces around the country. I also presume you close your ears and eyes to the housing crisis and haven't seen or heard how long criminal cases are taking to be heard and the lengthening NHS waiting lists that are a constant feature of news reports. It's amazing what you can't hear or see if you don't want to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 17:58:36 GMT
If one out of the pairs Alec & Danny and Jib & Steve stopped engaging with the other it would make this place so much more interesting and easier to navigate. Certainly easier to navigate...but hold on, what exactly do you mean? Do you skip back and forth checking old posts? There are thousands without any of the above. So what do you mean exactly? There is a solution, if you dont want to see them, you can set your acount to hide them. Or just skip them. No reason for them to bother you at all. Or are you afraid other people might read them and think they make sense? Is that what bothers you, because you think they really do make sense and you are afraid others might think so too? It is pretty seldom I get an actual factual refutation of what I write. Its usually ad hominem attacks. Which in general means someone is attacking the person, because they cannot attack the facts. Case above, Alec disagrees there has never been testing for any disease on the scale done for covid. He lists some surveys, but then the debate halts when I point out these dont do what he believes they do. We have indeed been round this loop before, he keeps bringing up the subject of covid. Another political trick, if you repeat something enough then it gets believed. We should keep a scoreboard whose references more often are right. Steve gets attacked because he is the only one really standing up for the libs, and neither lab or con supporters like that. Neither lab or con like criticism of the handling of the epidemic, while libs are more ambivalent. Its fascinating how people's posting reflects their political affiliation. It's clearly an addiction. To your own opinions and the fantasy of having the last word. Which never happens.
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