pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 19, 2023 20:17:08 GMT
“I think this debate is too abstract, like many debates on here.” Ooooo, Mr Hoity Toity! (Rest of it was good, though.) INTERNET INTIMACY & VIRTUAL STOCKHOLM SYNDROME I come on here in the festive season for a bit of ineffectual ranting & to abuse the OCD posters (the "eight" who wrecked UKPR 1 with their obsessive proceduralism, from which we were saved by A Wells's idleness & Mark's nimble footwork in creating this site, all credit to him) who post far too much, tho many are keeping a lower profile at the moment than is usual. Forums like this create a "virtual Stockholm syndrome". People with decidedly opposing & indeed hostile views, people who have never met, never will meet, & even if they did meet would probably despise each other, develop, thru constant interaction, a fake, a false internet intimacy. Eg., if if one of the OCDs doesn't post for a while one or more of the others will express concern for their welfare. Odd. The exception one would allow is Charles, the site's Patron Saint, whose transparent integrity and good sense & temperate manners are liked by everyone. Anyway I hv just received a present, 4 volumes of The Story of the Stone: 2,000 pages of sml type. That should keep me occupied for a day or two. Anyone read it? I have never once asked after the welfare of another poster, therefore confirming I am an internet sociopath.
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Post by jib on Dec 19, 2023 20:29:48 GMT
Not sure if this has been commented on but does anyone think the fact that even the Government is now backing a so-called 'sustainable ceasefire' - with increasing pressure to back an 'immediate ceasefire' and the international community getting more and more concerned about Israel's conduct - suggest it was a mistake for Starmer to whip his MPs to vote against it? And is it Labour's reluctance on this issue which created the space for the Government to back the halfway house of a sustainable ceasefire in the first place? For my money it was probably a small mistake but not likely to make much difference either way. Given that the Gaza War is a damned if you, damned if you don't situation, Starmer has wisely left the issue to the elected Government. It's not as if Palestine remains a British Colony / Dependency in any case.
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Post by jib on Dec 19, 2023 20:36:56 GMT
Breaking:By-election triggered as Peter Bone MP loses seat www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67767890 Conservative 2019 result: Peter Bone 32,277 62.2% +4.7% Andrea Watts Labour 13,737 26.5% -7.6% Suzanna Austin Liberal Democrat 4,078 7.9% + 4.5% Marion Turner-Hawes Green Party 1,821 3.5% + 1.7%
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Post by jib on Dec 19, 2023 20:50:23 GMT
NB Turnout at Wellingborough in 2019 was 64.3%
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 19, 2023 21:01:54 GMT
Parliament goes into recess today so no writ can now be moved before its return in early January. Earliest date for a by election likely to be 15th February. Bone's departure would have reduced Sunak's Second Reading majority to 43. Two Independent MPs who have lost the Labour Whip missed that vote as did one Alba MP. Had they all voted the majority would have been 41 - now reduced to 40.
If no writ is moved in January, it will suggest that Sunak is seriously considering a May GE.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 19, 2023 21:14:59 GMT
Bone is a symptom of the ossification that has bedevilled our sclerotic politics for years now.
It's no bad thing that he's taking a break from it all now.
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 19, 2023 21:17:19 GMT
Bone is a symptom of the ossification that has bedevilled our sclerotic politics for years now. It's no bad thing that he's taking a break from it all now. Apparently he is quite likely to stand in any by election called.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 19, 2023 21:19:28 GMT
Bone is a symptom of the ossification that has bedevilled our sclerotic politics for years now. It's no bad thing that he's taking a break from it all now. Apparently he is quite likely to stand in any by election called. He's leaving a fractured party. Do you think he might form a splinter group?
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 19, 2023 21:50:41 GMT
Apparently he is quite likely to stand in any by election called. He's leaving a fractured party. Do you think he might form a splinter group? Perhaps he will stand as the Reform candidate!
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 19, 2023 21:53:32 GMT
Good luck to the Labour candidate in Wellingborough but it was hardly a ringing endorsement for a by election with the required participation in the recall petition of 10% only just being met with 13%.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 19, 2023 21:55:10 GMT
The issue with Bone is compounded its not simple.
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 19, 2023 22:03:53 GMT
Good luck to the Labour candidate in Wellingborough but it was hardly a ringing endorsement for a by election with the required participation in the recall petition of 10% only just being met with 13%. But some local by elections struggle to exceed 13%.
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 19, 2023 22:13:28 GMT
Turnout at the December 1969 Wellingborough by election exceeded 75%.
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Post by isa on Dec 19, 2023 22:27:41 GMT
Apparently he is quite likely to stand in any by election called. He's leaving a fractured party. Do you think he might form a splinter group? I think his support is probably quite brittle.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 19, 2023 22:29:30 GMT
It would be truly remarkable if Labour win, but they do have a chance It will depend if the Reform vote holds up which it hasn't in recent by-elections
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Post by isa on Dec 19, 2023 22:42:40 GMT
Well, LAB did gain Tamworth and Mid-Beds with higher swings than that required in Wellingborough just two months ago, but agree the RFM issue might have become more salient since then.
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Post by johntel on Dec 19, 2023 22:44:52 GMT
He's leaving a fractured party. Do you think he might form a splinter group? I think his support is probably quite brittle. And too idle.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 19, 2023 22:47:59 GMT
It would be truly remarkable if Labour win, but they do have a chance It will depend if the Reform vote holds up which it hasn't in recent by-elections There is no guarantee that a RefUK voter's second choice, especially in a by-election, would automatically be the Conservative Party. We don't even know the full list of candidates yet.
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Post by isa on Dec 19, 2023 22:52:19 GMT
I think his support is probably quite brittle. And too idle. Very humerus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 23:38:04 GMT
Trump unable to stand in Colorado, their Court declares.
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Post by mercian on Dec 19, 2023 23:54:44 GMT
I looked up details on Bone and was amazed to find that he's a year younger than me. He looks at least 80.
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Post by isa on Dec 20, 2023 0:22:44 GMT
Trump unable to stand in Colorado, their Court declares. I don't think I'd get too excited yet. If it gets past appeal, it's bound to end up in the US Supreme Court. I suspect it wouldn't go well for Colorado there. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67768873
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graham
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Post by graham on Dec 20, 2023 0:41:43 GMT
It would be truly remarkable if Labour win, but they do have a chance It will depend if the Reform vote holds up which it hasn't in recent by-elections I rather disagree and believe Labour ought to win Wellingborough. The party has history in the seat - having held it 1997 - 2005 when narrowly lost - also 1964 - December 1969 -and 1945 - 1959. This is not at all like Mid Bedfordshire.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 5:19:51 GMT
The traitor excluded from the Ballot in Colorado by a 4:3 ruling of the Colorado supreme court.Wow. Hold on. The case will now go to the USSC for a ruling. Guess what The U.S. Supreme court has a traitor appointed republican christofascist majority. Amongst the Traitors appointments is justice Neil Gorsuch , Gorsuch as a Colorado supreme court judge actually ruled that it was a State's choice whom was permitted to stand for election and this couldn't be overruled by federal law. Amongst the other justices is far right corrupt recipient of millions in right wing largesse Clarence Thomas , Thomas's wife Ginni is a co conspirator with the Traitor and was central to the coup attempts. Clearly Gorsuch should uphold the Colorado supreme court ruling as complying with his own interpretation of the constitution, he won't he's a hypocrite. And clearly Thomas should recuse himself as his wife was a participant in the coup , he won't he's a corrupt hypocrite. So we will see the U.S. Supreme court dominated by right wing judges who have ruled that state law supersedes federal law when it comes to women's control of their own bodies and when it comes to their billionaire chums flouting federal health and environmental legislation but when it comes to the traitor will offer precisely the reverse interpretation. Profiles in partisan hypocrisy and another nail in the coffin of the concept of an independent legal system in the U.S youtu.be/a7qIeM0_2h8?si=lLBU5AteK-AYZMvW
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 5:24:53 GMT
"I looked up details on Bone and was amazed to find that he's a year younger than me. He looks at least 80."
So 25 years younger then☺
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 6:58:12 GMT
Almost two-thirds of British exporters have said selling to the EU has become harder in the past year, according to the British Chambers of Commerce, which is calling on the government to do more to smooth trade frictions post-Brexit.
Three years on from Boris Johnson signing the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) with the EU, the small businesses which make up much of the BCC’s membership are still struggling to negotiate trade barriers.
Among those which export to the EU, 60% of respondents to the BCC’s latest survey said it had become more difficult than a year ago. By comparison, 18% of exporters to non-EU companies reported that it had got harder.
Just 14% of exporters agreed that the TCA was helping them to grow their business, while 49% disagreed.
“The thing about Brexit is, it’s not a static mechanism,” said William Bain, the BCC’s head of trade policy. “You’re dealing with a growing compliance burden that’s started to come in increasingly over the past 12 months. It creates more paperwork; it creates more cost.”
There are no upsides to the brexitanians stupidity in imposing trade restrictions on themselves. Just a prolonged slow motion train wreck.
The only way things improve is to commence the reversal of the most damaging self inflicted impact on our economy, our individual rights and foreign policy since the second world war.
No amount of lies, self delusion, or flag waving nationalism will remove the damage of national idiots day, only a fact based realisation of the need to return to far closer ties will help.
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Post by alec on Dec 20, 2023 8:08:59 GMT
steve - Trump & Colarado: Every time this kind of ruling comes through, Trump advances in the polls. At this stage, he's the favourite. On the economy: 'Better' than expected inflation figures, for a second month on the trot, exceeding expectations by a fair amount again. As more and more data comes it, it points to an economy weakening rapidly. Once again, the BoE has got the interest rates wrong. This time, they tightened too much, after failing to raise rates for a very long time after the crash.
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Post by jib on Dec 20, 2023 8:13:29 GMT
steve - Trump & Colarado: Every time this kind of ruling comes through, Trump advances in the polls. At this stage, he's the favourite. On the economy: 'Better' than expected inflation figures, for a second month on the trot, exceeding expectations by a fair amount again. As more and more data comes it, it points to an economy weakening rapidly. Once again, the BoE has got the interest rates wrong. This time, they tightened too much, after failing to raise rates for a very long time after the crash. As the Guardian reported; "A majority of the court holds that Trump is disqualified from holding the office of president under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment,” the court, whose justices were all appointed by Democratic governors, wrote in its ruling." Sleepy Geriatric Joe needs a better plan than that to stop Trump 2.0.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 20, 2023 8:14:04 GMT
Not sure if this has been commented on but does anyone think the fact that even the Government is now backing a so-called 'sustainable ceasefire' - with increasing pressure to back an 'immediate ceasefire' and the international community getting more and more concerned about Israel's conduct - suggest it was a mistake for Starmer to whip his MPs to vote against it? Con have used this tactic several times, and every little helps. They positioned labour as dissolving parliament in 2019 which enabled brexit to proceed. Lab took the stance con interventions against covid were too weak, whereas the reverse is the case and con knew it.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 20, 2023 8:17:28 GMT
If no writ is moved in January, it will suggest that Sunak is seriously considering a May GE.
Yeah, about that. Why isnt the process to appoint a new MP automatic on the post becoming vacant?
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