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Post by alec on Dec 18, 2023 11:03:53 GMT
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 18, 2023 11:07:19 GMT
The opposition to the White Paper "In Place of Strife" (1969) that Barbara Castle introduced as Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity was led by Jim Callaghan as Home Secretary. Had the Cabinet supported Wilson and Castle rather than Callaghan, the whole industrial discontent of the 70s might never have happened, or at least been much less. Perhaps it was too much to expect British Trade Unions to support the same principles that they had imposed on German industry and unions when the German state was reconstructed after WW2. My father was an AEU works convenor in Coventry at the time, so saw all of what pjw describes. Roy Hattersley opposed "In Place of Strife" and much later admitted it was the biggest mistake of his political career. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 18, 2023 11:08:51 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - you seem to be trying to pick a fight with me over nothing. If you actually read what I wrote: (a) I said the oil price shock of 1973 was the cause of the crumbling of the post-war social democratic model, which (unconsciously) depended in cheap energy - i.e. I agree with you (b) I said that much of the industrial strife was caused by workers trying to keep their pay in line with inflation - i.e. I agree with you (c) I didn't say Keynesian stimulus caused all the inflation. My point was that in an economy already stressed by the oil price hike and other factors, it failed to produce the growth politicians expected - hence the 1970s phenomenon of 'Stagflation' - stagnation + inflation. (d) You seem to think I approve of "the third way". I don't. I thought it vacuous. My point was that the left (in its broad sense) failed to respond to the failures of the social democratic model in the 1970s with new thinking. The centre-left offered the same ideas that had prevailed in the post war era (hence Graham's point about the Liberal/SDP manifesto of 1983), while the far left advocated withdrawal from the EEC (as then was) and mass nationalisation. Neither would have worked and neither had much appeal. This left the field clear for neo-liberalism to be inflicted by a rampant right. (e) My comments on trade union power do not reflect by own views but the widely held feeling at the time. If you don't believe me see this polling: www.ipsos.com/en-uk/attitudes-trade-unions-1975-2014 You are assuming a fight where there isn’t one. If I say something, it doesn’t automatically mean I am necessarily disagreeing with you, as opposed to just adding more context. One thing I did disagree with though, hence my opening comment, was this: “Attempts as Keynesian stimulation produced high inflation rather than growth.” So I explained that oil prices were the big culprit rather than stimulus, that was the main part of my post. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 18, 2023 11:10:04 GMT
The opposition to the White Paper "In Place of Strife" (1969) that Barbara Castle introduced as Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity was led by Jim Callaghan as Home Secretary. Had the Cabinet supported Wilson and Castle rather than Callaghan, the whole industrial discontent of the 70s might never have happened, or at least been much less. Perhaps it was too much to expect British Trade Unions to support the same principles that they had imposed on German industry and unions when the German state was reconstructed after WW2. My father was an AEU works convenor in Coventry at the time, so saw all of what pjw describes. Well there was an incomes policy and wage rises restricted to 6% or summertime. But inflation was running year-on-year at rates of things like 15%, 25% etc… inflation came down to 8% then there was the second oil price hike, inflation shot back up to 18% and people were getting so h2mmeter we had the winter of discontent. in Place of Strife didn’t magic away high inflation trashing wage packets. It wasn't implemented. Leftieliberal's point is that it should have been. |
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Post by domjg on Dec 18, 2023 11:11:40 GMT
wb61 As I understand the idea would be to keep the acceleration at a constant The physical feeling of g-forces acting on your body are not an effect of speed, but of acceleration. When you’re driving in a car or flying on a commercial airline, you feel the g-force push on your body only when the vehicle is accelerating. Once you reach a steady cruising speed, things begin to feel normal. If you’re accelerating at a fast enough rate to produce a constant 1 g, then , you’ll be able to create artificial, Earth-like gravity. It's the principle used in the series " the expanse" it requires the sort of virtually limitless fuel envisaged in the magnetic drive, if you turned it off in flight your speed would remain constant but acceleration would be zero and you'd be weightless. The flip side is when you want to decelerate you have to do so in the same way. Consequently greater speed doesn't produce a faster acceleration and the thrust effect, on a trip to mars deceleration at .4 g would mean you arrived on the red planet already weighing what you would on the surface. I'm not a scientist and if anyone knows better happy to be corrected. I probably didn't express myself well, what I meant is this that Mars is about 140 million miles away, that means that to get there in 3 days you would have to travel an average of just under 2 million MPH. To accelerate to achieve that average speed and decelerate to arrive, all within 3 days would involve destructive levels of G forces would it not? I understand acceleration above 6 or 7G for extended period of time is significantly deleterious. The forces involved where acceleration would be over 2 miles per second to reach 2 million mph within 3 days, surely that's unsustainable is what I meant. A Boeing 747 goes from a standing start to rotation at 184mph in not much more than 30 seconds which is not an uncomfortable level of acceleration especially for trained astronauts. Keep that level of acceleration up for even a few hours and you'll already be at a phenomenal speed. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 18, 2023 11:11:42 GMT
Well there was an incomes policy and wage rises restricted to 6% or summertime. But inflation was running year-on-year at rates of things like 15%, 25% etc… inflation came down to 8% then there was the second oil price hike, inflation shot back up to 18% and people were getting so h2mmeter we had the winter of discontent. in Place of Strife didn’t magic away high inflation trashing wage packets. It wasn't implemented. Leftieliberal's point is that it should have been. Yes I know that, my point is that if it had been, it would not have stopped high inflation trashing wages. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 18, 2023 11:16:20 GMT
Another Tory MP being investigated: Politics latest news: Tory MP Miriam Cates investigated by standards watchdog www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/12/18/rishi-sunak-latest-news-heat-pumps-nhs-wes-streeting-live/Conservative MP Miriam Cates has been placed under investigation by Parliament’s standards watchdog.
The backbench MP is facing claims that she has caused “significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”, according to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards.As I refuse to give any money to the Torygraph, I cannot tell you any more, but at the rate Tory MPs are going under now Sunak may not have a majority by the autumn. |
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Post by graham on Dec 18, 2023 11:16:30 GMT
I well remember the continuous rumble of industrial discontent that went on throughout the 70's. Well of course, inflation was hammering wage packets. Even before the oil crisis and barber boom, it hit 9% a couple of years earlier due to devaluations etc. Then you got swingeing rises in the oil crisis on top 18%, 25%, wage packets were getting trashed. But the right focus on industrial discontent and the need to tame those unions, but are strangely silent when it’s unions like teachers and doctors striking  I agree broadly with your comments re- the Oil Crisis of 1973/74 which followed the Yom Kippur war of October 1973, but I have a different memory of the Second Oil Crisis at the end of the 1970s. That was surely a consequence of the Iranian Revolution which occurred in early 1979 when the Shah was overthrown. I do not recall this being a cause of the collapse of Callaghan's Incomes Policy in the late Autumn of 1978 when RPI inflation was at 8%/9%. As PJW says, that happened largely as a result of union leaders losing control of their members after over three years of wage restraint. Whilst inflation had fallen sharply by that time - compared with the mid-70s - it was still in high single figures, and workers resented being asked by Callaghan to restrict wage increases to 5%. It showed poor political judgement to be advocating such a line in the run-up to an election due within a few months - and adds to the sense of poor political 'nous' in delaying that election in September 1978. The pay policy began to fall apart with the Ford Motor strike in the late Autumn which then fed in to the Winter of Discontent a few weeks later at the very end of that year. Personally I do not recall the rise in oil prices being a factor at that stage - that came later in 1979 and 1980. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 11:16:46 GMT
Hi jimjamI wondered what your reaction to this is please. ? Its in the context of Reeves/Starmer business friendly initiative. "If Labour is in government after the next election, many of its MPs will be new. Labour today has 198 MPs. It needs 326 for a Commons majority. Prime minister Keir Starmer would have a lot of new colleagues on the green benches. The outlook and thinking of those new MPs will be extremely significant. So to help answer those CEOs’ questions, Apella Advisors has researched the professional backgrounds of the Labour candidates in the party’s top 100 target seats. Where a person works makes a big difference to what they know and how they think. Sometimes, people who haven’t worked for a profit-seeking business can lack an instinctive understanding of why companies do what they do, and what they need. Our analysis suggests that the next cohort of Labour MPs might lack some of that knowledge. Of the 100 candidates we assessed, only 36 work in the private sector — or worked there before becoming a full-time candidate. The unreasonable demands local parties make of would-be candidates are often incompatible with private-sector work. The rest of our 100 are from the public or voluntary sectors. Nothing wrong with that — I was once CEO of a charity, and learnt a lot about funding and finance there. But overall, Labour’s next MPs look light on business experience. Even those 36 with private sector experience have backgrounds that might not resonate with many business leaders. Of them, 22 work in jobs adjacent to politics, as lawyers, lobbyists, pollsters and PR advisers. Another two are writers. That leaves just 12 of our future MPs working in the rest of the private sector. Only one of them works for a company traded on a UK stock exchange. If Labour is in power after the next election, British business will have to work harder than ever to explain itself to the people who make up the governing party." James Kirkup - partner at Apella Advisors Times today |
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Post by graham on Dec 18, 2023 11:20:56 GMT
The opposition to the White Paper "In Place of Strife" (1969) that Barbara Castle introduced as Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity was led by Jim Callaghan as Home Secretary. Had the Cabinet supported Wilson and Castle rather than Callaghan, the whole industrial discontent of the 70s might never have happened, or at least been much less. Perhaps it was too much to expect British Trade Unions to support the same principles that they had imposed on German industry and unions when the German state was reconstructed after WW2. My father was an AEU works convenor in Coventry at the time, so saw all of what pjw describes. Well there was an incomes policy and wage rises restricted to 6% or summertime. But inflation was running year-on-year at rates of things like 15%, 25% etc… inflation came down to 8% then there was the second oil price hike, inflation shot back up to 18% and people were getting so h2mmeter we had the winter of discontent. in Place of Strife didn’t magic away high inflation trashing wage packets. RPI inflation was 10% when Thatcher took office in May 1979. By Spring 1980 it had shot back up to 22%. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 18, 2023 11:20:58 GMT
The annual nice and naughty list polling: www.ipsos.com/en-uk/ipsos-christmas-poll-nhs-staff-top-santas-nice-list-for-fourth-year-in-row"The Naughty List Vladimir Putin is most likely to be put on the naughty list by Britons in 2022 (59%). Around half say former President of the United States Donald Trump deserves to be on the naughty list (51%) while just under half (46%) believe former PM, Boris Johnson shouldn’t be getting presents this year. Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is considered to have been naughty this year by 40% of Britons, followed by Liz Truss on 36%. Other notable naughty people, according to the public, include Suella Braverman (34%), Just Stop Oil (33%) and Nigel Farage (32%). The Nice List NHS staff maintain their position at the top of the nice list for the fourth year in a row (49%). David Attenborough has been put on the nice list by 39% of Britons, followed by Martin Lewis at 36%. Teachers are put on the nice list by 33%, followed by the England Women’s Football team at 30%. Dame Judi Dench (28%) and Royal couple Catherine, Princess of Wales (28%) and William, Prince of Wales (26%) make up the top eight." |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 18, 2023 11:24:32 GMT
Well of course, inflation was hammering wage packets. Even before the oil crisis and barber boom, it hit 9% a couple of years earlier due to devaluations etc. Then you got swingeing rises in the oil crisis on top 18%, 25%, wage packets were getting trashed. But the right focus on industrial discontent and the need to tame those unions, but are strangely silent when it’s unions like teachers and doctors striking I agree broadly with your comments re- the Oil Crisis of 1973/74 which followed the Yom Kippur war of October 1973, but I have a different memory of the Second Oil Crisis at the end of the 1970s. That was surely a consequence of the Iranian Revolution which occurred in early 1979 when the Shah was overthrown. I do not recall this being a cause of the collapse of Callaghan's Incomes Policy in the late Autumn of 1978 when RPI inflation was at 8%/9%. As PJW says, that happened largely as a result of union leaders losing control of their members after over three years of wage restraint. Whilst inflation had fallen sharply by that time - compared with the mid-70s - it was still in high single figures, and workers resented being asked by Callaghan to restrict wage increases to 5%. It showed poor political judgement to be advocating such a line in the run-up to an election due within a few months - and adds to the sense of poor political 'nous' in delaying that election in September 1978. The pay policy began to fall apart with the Ford Motor strike in the late Autumn which then fed in to the Winter of Discontent a few weeks later at the very end of that year. Personally I do not recall the rise in oil prices being a factor at that stage - that came later in 1979 and 1980. Yes indeed, the Yom Kippur war was the stimulus for the first oil price spike. However while it’s true that inflation did fall to 8%, if I recall correctly it did start rising again during Labour’s term, although it peaked under Thatch. Would have to check the figures to be sure though… (Even at 8%, coming on the back of all the higher inflation year-on-year, it was still a massive cumulative impact over several years) EDIT just looked at some figures, and inflation fell to its lowest in October ‘78 and started rising after that, though not hugely at first. (Some may have been aware of what was on the radar…) |
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Post by graham on Dec 18, 2023 11:28:23 GMT
I agree broadly with your comments re- the Oil Crisis of 1973/74 which followed the Yom Kippur war of October 1973, but I have a different memory of the Second Oil Crisis at the end of the 1970s. That was surely a consequence of the Iranian Revolution which occurred in early 1979 when the Shah was overthrown. I do not recall this being a cause of the collapse of Callaghan's Incomes Policy in the late Autumn of 1978 when RPI inflation was at 8%/9%. As PJW says, that happened largely as a result of union leaders losing control of their members after over three years of wage restraint. Whilst inflation had fallen sharply by that time - compared with the mid-70s - it was still in high single figures, and workers resented being asked by Callaghan to restrict wage increases to 5%. It showed poor political judgement to be advocating such a line in the run-up to an election due within a few months - and adds to the sense of poor political 'nous' in delaying that election in September 1978. The pay policy began to fall apart with the Ford Motor strike in the late Autumn which then fed in to the Winter of Discontent a few weeks later at the very end of that year. Personally I do not recall the rise in oil prices being a factor at that stage - that came later in 1979 and 1980. Yes indeed, the Yom Kippur war was the stimulus for the first oil price spike. However while it’s true that inflation did fall to 8%, if I recall correctly it did start rising again during Labour’s term, although it peaked under Thatch. Would have to check the figures to be sure though… (Even at 8%, coming on the back of all the higher inflation year-on-year, it was still a massive cumulative impact over several years) Inflation did begin to rise during the Winter of 1978/79 , but did not reach 10% until April/May 1979 towards the end of the election campaign. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 18, 2023 11:31:34 GMT
Yes indeed, the Yom Kippur war was the stimulus for the first oil price spike. However while it’s true that inflation did fall to 8%, if I recall correctly it did start rising again during Labour’s term, although it peaked under Thatch. Would have to check the figures to be sure though… (Even at 8%, coming on the back of all the higher inflation year-on-year, it was still a massive cumulative impact over several years) Inflation did begin to rise during the Winter of 1978/79 , but did not reach 10% until April/May 1979 towards the end of the election campaign. Yeah, you were too quick for me: I just checked and added an edit to my post G. |
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Post by wb61 on Dec 18, 2023 11:35:01 GMT
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Post by birdseye on Dec 18, 2023 11:39:13 GMT
Should never have levied carbon taxes on basic UK manufacturing until competitors had already done so themselves. As a result of what we have done, the UK industries are permanently damaged and below scale. It was political virtue signalling. |
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Post by wb61 on Dec 18, 2023 11:47:11 GMT
leftieliberal currently 8 MP's being investigate by the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, Daniel Greenburg, 7 Conservatives and 1 former Conservative. Details, beyond the outline of the rule on standards being investigated are not released before an investigation is concluded.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 18, 2023 11:54:02 GMT
If you accelerated at 1g constantly for 72 hours you would be travelling at over 9 million kph the arrival at Mars would be spectacular. Best to turn round and slow down on the way.
It's probable a fraction of this speed at lower constant acceleration and deceleration might be preferable, it would still reduce travel time to a few days ( still around 3 I think), for travel to the outer system the advantages of maintaining constant acceleration would be huge.
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Post by birdseye on Dec 18, 2023 11:54:39 GMT
Hi jimjam I wondered what your reaction to this is please. ? Its in the context of Reeves/Starmer business friendly initiative. "If Labour is in government after the next election, many of its MPs will be new. Labour today has 198 MPs. It needs 326 for a Commons majority. Prime minister Keir Starmer would have a lot of new colleagues on the green benches. The outlook and thinking of those new MPs will be extremely significant. So to help answer those CEOs’ questions, Apella Advisors has researched the professional backgrounds of the Labour candidates in the party’s top 100 target seats. Where a person works makes a big difference to what they know and how they think. Sometimes, people who haven’t worked for a profit-seeking business can lack an instinctive understanding of why companies do what they do, and what they need. Our analysis suggests that the next cohort of Labour MPs might lack some of that knowledge. Of the 100 candidates we assessed, only 36 work in the private sector — or worked there before becoming a full-time candidate. The unreasonable demands local parties make of would-be candidates are often incompatible with private-sector work. The rest of our 100 are from the public or voluntary sectors. Nothing wrong with that — I was once CEO of a charity, and learnt a lot about funding and finance there. But overall, Labour’s next MPs look light on business experience. Even those 36 with private sector experience have backgrounds that might not resonate with many business leaders. Of them, 22 work in jobs adjacent to politics, as lawyers, lobbyists, pollsters and PR advisers. Another two are writers. That leaves just 12 of our future MPs working in the rest of the private sector. Only one of them works for a company traded on a UK stock exchange. If Labour is in power after the next election, British business will have to work harder than ever to explain itself to the people who make up the governing party." James Kirkup - partner at Apella Advisors Times today Is the make up of the existing 198 significantly different? For that matter I wonder how many Tory MPs come from industry / commerce as opposed to professions like the law? No doubt the CBI etc will make some noise, but business will as always base decisions on what opportunities it sees and the reality of political decisions. For the last 90 months there have been net outflows of british investment money totalling 45bn. UK shares in british pensions have fallen from 53% some 25 years ago to a miserable 6% now. Private holdings of UK shares have fallen from 54% in 1963 to 15% now. Or to put it all another way, we Brits see better investment opportunities outside the UK than in it. Will left wing rumblings from Labour fringes change this for the better? I think not. |
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Post by wb61 on Dec 18, 2023 11:56:28 GMT
If you accelerated at 1g constantly for 72 hours you would be travelling at over 9 million kph the arrival at Mars would be spectacular. It's probable a fraction of this speed at lower constant acceleration and deceleration might be preferable, it would still reduce travel time to a couple of weeks, for travel to the outer system the advantages of m maintaining constant acceleration would be huge. I forgot that acceleration is geometric not linear. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 18, 2023 12:14:23 GMT
Guardian opinion piece on the SNP raising taxes, in particular bringing in a new 45p income tax rate for those earning over £75k. While the Guardian concentrates on the politics of it, this increase would mean that those on incomes between £100k and £125.4k would be paying an effective tax rate of 67.5p in the £ as a result of removal of their income tax personal allowance. Many GPs and hospital consultants have incomes above the £100k mark and one remembers from a few years ago them choosing to work fewer hours because of the taxation of their pension contributions (which was only 55p in the £). The same could very easily happen with this proposed tax increase.
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jimjam
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Post by jimjam on Dec 18, 2023 12:25:05 GMT
Colin/Birdseye.
The Labour Party has insufficient people with a business back-ground being selected as PPCs for sure.
In my area 2 people I know of who would have been a different type of MP didn't make the long list for local parties to choose from.
Both would have been insufficiently across detail at long list interviews conducted by an NEC sub committee; i.e not 'professional' enough.
I understand the fear of having candidates who might be a tad naive being off message but it is regrettable that we end up with more clone MPs.
Another issue is that the Unions effectively carve up many seats between them so only one Unite, GMB or Unison candidate emerges.
This narrowing phenomenon extends to local Councillors as well with not enough having the experience to challenge officers effectively.
This ends up with councils being officer led rather than officer guided imo.
The Tory talent pool is also narrow and both main parties have too many career politicians in their ranks.
NB) there are 30+ Labour MPs standing down (a handful barred from standing) so there will perhaps only be 160ish non first time MPs (a few retreads might boost that number I guess).
Of those 160 a good number will have done their stint as a front bencher while some will not be asked to serve so chances are some new MPs will be a PPS in very short order; maybe a few even straight away.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2023 12:34:26 GMT
Colin/Birdseye. The Labour Party has insufficient people with a business back-ground being selected as PPCs for sure. In my area 2 people I know of who would have been a different type of MP didn't make the long list for local parties to choose from. Both would have been insufficiently across detail at long list interviews conducted by an NEC sub committee; i.e not 'professional' enough. I understand the fear of having candidates who might be a tad naive being off message but it is regrettable that we end up with more clone MPs. Another issue is that the Unions effectively carve up many seats between them so only one Unite, GMB or Unison candidate emerges. This narrowing phenomenon extends to local Councillors as well with not enough having the experience to challenge officers effectively. This ends up with councils being officer led rather than officer guided imo. The Tory talent pool is also narrow and both main parties have too many career politicians in their ranks. NB) there are 30+ Labour MPs standing down (a handful barred from standing) so there will perhaps only be 160ish non first time MPs (a few retreads might boost that number I guess). Of those 160 a good number will have done their stint as a front bencher while some will not be asked to serve so chances are some new MPs will be a PPS in very short order; maybe a few even straight away. Thanks jimjam . A depressing story which perhaps goes some way to explaining what HoC can be like . |
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Post by jimjam on Dec 18, 2023 12:34:48 GMT
LL, to be fair to the SNP they are not responsible for the ridiculous allowance withdrawal.
Even now an effective marginal rate of 62% (NI 2% of that) applies at £100k.
Understandably, people on £100K won't get much sympathy but it is the 42% to £62% to 47% transition that is unfair.
Much better simplify and make the rate 50% from £100K as much of the loss from the £100-125 earners will be made up from even highers earners.
NB) I know the withdrawal starts at £101K ish and I haven't crunched the numbers (and don't have access of course) so 50% from £100K is just a notional start point for me not a firm position.
Child benefit withdrawal is similarly inequitable and should be addressed but not as a priority
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Post by steve on Dec 18, 2023 12:43:00 GMT
War criminal mass murderer Vladimir Putin ,Coupster , rapist, and wannabe dictator Mango Mussolini and our very own disgraced former prime minister Spaffer.
"By the company you keep I can tell what life you lead."
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Post by neilj on Dec 18, 2023 13:04:29 GMT
Re selection of MPs, Rory Stewart's book was a revelation to me as to how haphazard and not fit for purpose was the tory selection process.
I've no reason to suspect others parties are not similar
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 18, 2023 13:07:33 GMT
War criminal mass murderer Vladimir Putin ,Coupster , rapist, and wannabe dictator Mango Mussolini and our very own disgraced former prime minister Spaffer. "By the company you keep I can tell what life you lead." It would be interesting to compare to last year. Those three were all there a year ago but my impression from memory was that Sunak was only mildly unpopular in December 2022 and has slipped a lot in the last year. If I can find the time at some point I'll check. |
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Post by neilj on Dec 18, 2023 13:10:55 GMT
I am naturally suspicious as to how much big earners actually pay in tax. Let's remember Sunak paid on average just 22% on income of around £5m
The Tax system needs simplifying to prevent such legal tax avoidance
Perhaps if we did that we could reduce tax rates for everyone
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Post by jen on Dec 18, 2023 13:13:11 GMT
Rafwan This is David Ochterlony Dyce Sombre he was of Indian decent and was elected for Sudbury in Suffolk in 1841 View AttachmentThis was Dadabhai Naoroji. Liberal member for Bethnal Green, anti British rule in india, elected 1895 View AttachmentThere are at least a dozen ethnic minority MPs elected before 1900 dating back to the 18th century almost all were liberal. And of course Benjamin Disraeli was from an Italian Sephardic Jewish family View Attachment Haha, steve , that is very good. Thanks. But nothing between 1900 and 1978? Not a single one? I had thought there was one but couldn’t find them. Curious to see that the maligned Victorian times were more enlightened than the first eight decades of the twentieth century. The Daily Mail started publishing in 1896. |
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Post by somerjohn on Dec 18, 2023 13:42:03 GMT
Birdseye: "For the last 90 months there have been net outflows of british investment money totalling 45bn. UK shares in british pensions have fallen from 53% some 25 years ago to a miserable 6% now. Private holdings of UK shares have fallen from 54% in 1963 to 15% now. Or to put it all another way, we Brits see better investment opportunities outside the UK than in it."
90 months is 7 years 6 months which, magically, takes us back to June 2016. I won't use the tired "Hmm, what happened back then?" line, but just point out that we're talking post-brexit referendum and a decline in the attractiveness of the UK to investors.
The trouble with what ought to be killer info like this, is that it doesn't impinge on public consciousness unless it hits the news agenda. And it doesn't suit the agenda-setting 80% of the press that agitated for brexit to draw attention to bad brexit news. But, surely, low-hanging fruit for Labour to grab? No, they're too timid by half. So virtually nobody knows about it.
The result is that people like Mercian can get away with the "I haven't noticed any problems" line.
The UK's general complacency reminds me of the Empire State jumper who was aked how things were going, half way down. "Fine, so far."
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