pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 12, 2023 22:01:17 GMT
I was at a Labour branch meeting last night and the word was that Labour HQ expect the next election to be the dirtiest one ever, with the Conservatives and their media allies stopping at nothing. There were also a few glimmers of hope for those of us who would like to see more money for the public services, which apparently must not be spelled out in any detail until the election is over such is the fear of the Tory press propaganda machine. That is the awful, manipulative power of these organs. Most of their readers probably want better public services and yet they'd spin it as being some kind of attack on conservative England and the readership are so credulous that they'd be successful. I think that the advent of Murdoch and a gutter right wing press fifty odd years ago that has no real precedent elsewhere in Western Europe is one of the main things that over decades has dripped poison into minds and public discourse in this country and held it back from becoming the modern European country it could have been. Not only of course, but it's played a not small part I think. There are five rules of Tory financial journalism: All taxes are bad All borrowing is unaffordable All public spending is wasteful Labour can't be trusted with the economy None of the above applies if the Conservatives do it |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 12, 2023 22:06:55 GMT
That is the awful, manipulative power of these organs. Most of their readers probably want better public services and yet they'd spin it as being some kind of attack on conservative England and the readership are so credulous that they'd be successful. I think that the advent of Murdoch and a gutter right wing press fifty odd years ago that has no real precedent elsewhere in Western Europe is one of the main things that over decades has dripped poison into minds and public discourse in this country and held it back from becoming the modern European country it could have been. Not only of course, but it's played a not small part I think. There are five rules of Tory financial journalism: All taxes are bad All borrowing is unaffordable All public spending is wasteful Labour can't be trusted with the economy None of the above applies if the Conservatives do it Brilliant! |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 12, 2023 22:19:42 GMT
Thanks, pjw1961 , that is excellent. Starmer is just being frozen out of media platforms (as was Corbyn). And it may not be until the GE that he starts to get a full hearing. I was at a Labour branch meeting last night and the word was that Labour HQ expect the next election to be the dirtiest one ever, with the Conservatives and their media allies stopping at nothing. There were also a few glimmers of hope for those of us who would like to see more money for the public services, which apparently must not be spelled out in any detail until the election is over such is the fear of the Tory press propaganda machine. This is why it's so important in my view that the anti-Tory majority doesn't splinter and that, where we can, we make common electoral cause. Ejecting the Tories from government may well be a national emergency now. Petty grudge settling and point scoring on the left should be subordinated by this necessity. The realisation too that this division may be the Tories last hope of clinging on. This may seem melodramatic but I think the current Tory Party, a far cry from the party my parents supported all their lives, now poses quite substantial threats to our democracy, social cohesion and prosperity. Let's get shot of them and worry about what follows later. It can only be better than this rotten government. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 12, 2023 22:25:56 GMT
Thanks, pjw1961 , that is excellent. Starmer is just being frozen out of media platforms (as was Corbyn). And it may not be until the GE that he starts to get a full hearing. I was at a Labour branch meeting last night and the word was that Labour HQ expect the next election to be the dirtiest one ever, with the Conservatives and their media allies stopping at nothing. There were also a few glimmers of hope for those of us who would like to see more money for the public services, which apparently must not be spelled out in any detail until the election is over such is the fear of the Tory press propaganda machine. It was one thing that I noticed about the November OBR forecast. Their estimate of the additional Government receipts over their March 2023 forecast is about £40 billion for 2023-24, and around £50 billion annually for 2024-25, 25-26, 26-27 and 27-28. Obviously, fiscal drag plays a large part in this and if inflation is higher than the OBR forecasts, the increase in receipts will be greater. Too early to say yet, but there could be quite a wedge of cash down the back of No 11's sofa. The other thing I would expect a Labour Chancellor to do is to relax the limits on the amount by which Councils can increase Council tax. That might have to be done quite soon after the election if it is in Autumn 2024 as Councils set their budgets for the following FY in February. |
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Post by mark61 on Dec 12, 2023 22:31:31 GMT
I was at a Labour branch meeting last night and the word was that Labour HQ expect the next election to be the dirtiest one ever, with the Conservatives and their media allies stopping at nothing. There were also a few glimmers of hope for those of us who would like to see more money for the public services, which apparently must not be spelled out in any detail until the election is over such is the fear of the Tory press propaganda machine. This is why it's so important in my view that the anti-Tory majority doesn't splinter and that, where we can, we make common electoral cause. Ejecting the Tories from government may well be a national emergency now. Petty grudge settling and point scoring on the left should be subordinated by this necessity. The realisation too that this division may be the Tories last hope of clinging on. This may seem melodramatic but I think the current Tory Party, a far cry from the party my parents supported all their lives, now poses quite substantial threats to our democracy, social cohesion and prosperity. Let's get shot of them and worry about what follows later. It can only be better than this rotten government. |
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Post by mercian on Dec 12, 2023 22:49:56 GMT
I was at a Labour branch meeting last night and the word was that Labour HQ expect the next election to be the dirtiest one ever, with the Conservatives and their media allies stopping at nothing. There were also a few glimmers of hope for those of us who would like to see more money for the public services, which apparently must not be spelled out in any detail until the election is over such is the fear of the Tory press propaganda machine. That is the awful, manipulative power of these organs. Most of their readers probably want better public services and yet they'd spin it as being some kind of attack on conservative England and the readership are so credulous that they'd be successful. I think that the advent of Murdoch and a gutter right wing press fifty odd years ago that has no real precedent elsewhere in Western Europe is one of the main things that over decades has dripped poison into minds and public discourse in this country and held it back from becoming the modern European country it could have been. Not only of course, but it's played a not small part I think. This is a common left-wing conspiracy theory, but print newspaper readership has been dropping like a stone and online is mixed - e.g. this from a couple of years ago www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/28/the-guardian-most-widely-used-newspaper-website-and-app-for-news-according-to-ofcom |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 12, 2023 23:00:40 GMT
That is the awful, manipulative power of these organs. Most of their readers probably want better public services and yet they'd spin it as being some kind of attack on conservative England and the readership are so credulous that they'd be successful. I think that the advent of Murdoch and a gutter right wing press fifty odd years ago that has no real precedent elsewhere in Western Europe is one of the main things that over decades has dripped poison into minds and public discourse in this country and held it back from becoming the modern European country it could have been. Not only of course, but it's played a not small part I think. This is a common left-wing conspiracy theory, but print newspaper readership has been dropping like a stone and online is mixed - e.g. this from a couple of years ago www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/28/the-guardian-most-widely-used-newspaper-website-and-app-for-news-according-to-ofcomYou have to remember that what the papers decide is the news agenda - and most are Tory - gets picked up and amplified by the broadcast media and in turn by the new media. Newspapers power of influence far exceeds their sales pr online readership. |
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Post by mercian on Dec 12, 2023 23:10:44 GMT
pjw1961 Yes it always amuses me how the evening TV news programmes always make such a big deal of the print newspapers' morning headlines when hardly anyone reads them any more. Mind you I suppose we need a counterbalance to a lot of the insane garbage on social media where some people especially youngsters get their news. I read somewhere recently that 20% of US youngsters (can't remember the exact age group) don't believe the Holocaust happened and another 30% are unsure. I think the social media and podcast 'news' sources are far more dangerous than the 'evil' Daily Mail. --------------------------- In other news, some Guardian opinion writers are sensible.  www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/brexit-disaster-rejoining-channel-europe-economy
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Post by lens on Dec 12, 2023 23:37:30 GMT
lens - not sure if that was the actual wording. This says 'at the current time' - .......... I was quoting from carfrews original post (top of page 128), which gives the asked question as : “The polling asked adults whether they would back or oppose the Government reintroducing restrictions if the country’s health situation demanded it" Anybody got a link to the actual poll? Could it be as simple as that's what people NOW think should be the case *IF* the situation worsened and "the health situation demanded it?" Certainly I've been in a very large department store much of today, and only saw the occasional mask all day. About to get the tube in central London, so let's see roughly what the situation is there.To answer my own question, then on the entire train journey into central London, in a reasonably full train, I didn't see a single person wearing a mask. Not a single one, amongst scores of people, in rush hour. Same walking down the street just north of Oxford circus. Journey home just now on a half full train and I saw *ONE* mask being worn! Yet apparently 16% of the survey respondents are strongly in favour of reintroducing facemask wearing on public transport!? So you'd think at least most of them would be doing it voluntarily now anyway? So where were they? Frankly, as far as that survey is concerned, I call bullsh!t!! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2023 0:39:12 GMT
I was quoting from carfrews original post (top of page 128), which gives the asked question as : “The polling asked adults whether they would back or oppose the Government reintroducing restrictions if the country’s health situation demanded it" Anybody got a link to the actual poll? Could it be as simple as that's what people NOW think should be the case *IF* the situation worsened and "the health situation demanded it?" Certainly I've been in a very large department store much of today, and only saw the occasional mask all day. About to get the tube in central London, so let's see roughly what the situation is there.To answer my own question, then on the entire train journey into central London, in a reasonably full train, I didn't see a single person wearing a mask. Not a single one, amongst scores of people, in rush hour. Same walking down the street just north of Oxford circus. Journey home just now on a half full train and I saw *ONE* mask being worn! Yet apparently 16% of the survey respondents are strongly in favour of reintroducing facemask wearing on public transport!? So you'd think at least most of them would be doing it voluntarily now anyway? So where were they? Frankly, as far as that survey is concerned, I call bullsh!t!! Spookily enough, I've been up in The Smoke today, as well. Even more spookily, I've been to Oxford Circus (on my way to the BBC for lunch). Now you mention it, I don't think I saw more than half a dozen people wearing masks on the tube. I didn't see anyone wearing masks on my mainline train in either direction. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 13, 2023 5:32:34 GMT
"Yet apparently 16% of the survey respondents are strongly in favour of reintroducing facemask wearing on public transport"
They probably consist nearly entirely of people who don't ever use public transport.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 13, 2023 5:56:38 GMT
"First as tragedy. Then as farce. It’s come to this. Amazed that the Tory party can even look itself in the face, let alone the country. A government that has long since given up any pretence of governing, whose only principle is to have no principles. An amoral semi- mass whose only goal is its own survival. Propped up by those who should know better.
It’s like we never left 2018. Those lawless days when Tory was pitted against Tory in a never-ending Brexit war. Each one high on their own self-regard. A drug-fuelled orgy of narcissistic indulgence. Each MP certain they were the Chosen One. The Messiah blessed with the higher knowledge of The Will of the People. Hell-bent on taking us all down with them. Mark Francois, Steve Baker and Bill Cash. Take a bow. Your names liveth forevermore."
John Crace
I've never thought much of the Tories but there was a time when there seemed a smidgen of humanity in their ranks.
Now it's a race to the most extreme of bat shit insanity, with the "research groups for lunacy", competing with the "common lack of sense cluster"
Where we have Poundland* third rate hard of thinking xenophobic incompetence calling themselves " the five families" as if they're some delusional mafiosa group announcing the choice to their victims " we're going to make you an offer you can't understand "
It's pathetic and humiliating this country has been on the slide since 2010 and since 2016 it's been a near vertical drop into what the fuckery.
Yesterday an asylum seeker committed suicide on the government prison barge his repeated pleas for help were ignored.
On the government benches not a word of remorse but just a doubling down on vitriolic xenophobia playing to the basest flaws in people's character, while pretending to be something else.
A regime fit only for the dustbin.
*Not fair on Poundland they actually sell some things that work.
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Post by pete on Dec 13, 2023 7:02:33 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 13, 2023 7:42:25 GMT
"Yet apparently 16% of the survey respondents are strongly in favour of reintroducing facemask wearing on public transport" They probably consist nearly entirely of people who don't ever use public transport. I wonder what percentage of the population essentially never goes out, never mind do not use public transport? A quick google suggests 2 million people. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 13, 2023 7:55:04 GMT
Mmmm...
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Post by alec on Dec 13, 2023 7:57:56 GMT
Pretty poor economic growth figures out this morning. Economy now shrinking, mild recession likely.
This was commented on when last months inflation figures came through, with most press outlets celebrating the big fall in inflation as some kind of success. Only the FT flagged up the rather obvious point; inflation falls either if your workforce and production base is expanding through investment, which is patently not the case at present, or if demand is weakening. Such a big fall in inflation should have started the alarm bells ringing for the direction of the economy, and these figures have now confirmed that any benefits in inflation numbers are primarily driven by economic weakness.
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barbara
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Post by barbara on Dec 13, 2023 8:14:49 GMT
I was at a Labour branch meeting last night and the word was that Labour HQ expect the next election to be the dirtiest one ever, with the Conservatives and their media allies stopping at nothing. There were also a few glimmers of hope for those of us who would like to see more money for the public services, which apparently must not be spelled out in any detail until the election is over such is the fear of the Tory press propaganda machine. That is the awful, manipulative power of these organs. Most of their readers probably want better public services and yet they'd spin it as being some kind of attack on conservative England and the readership are so credulous that they'd be successful. I think that the advent of Murdoch and a gutter right wing press fifty odd years ago that has no real precedent elsewhere in Western Europe is one of the main things that over decades has dripped poison into minds and public discourse in this country and held it back from becoming the modern European country it could have been. Not only of course, but it's played a not small part I think. Read "How they broke Britain " by James Obrien. All this and more backed up by facts and data. |
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barbara
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Post by barbara on Dec 13, 2023 8:17:04 GMT
I was at a Labour branch meeting last night and the word was that Labour HQ expect the next election to be the dirtiest one ever, with the Conservatives and their media allies stopping at nothing. There were also a few glimmers of hope for those of us who would like to see more money for the public services, which apparently must not be spelled out in any detail until the election is over such is the fear of the Tory press propaganda machine. This is why it's so important in my view that the anti-Tory majority doesn't splinter and that, where we can, we make common electoral cause. Ejecting the Tories from government may well be a national emergency now. Petty grudge settling and point scoring on the left should be subordinated by this necessity. The realisation too that this division may be the Tories last hope of clinging on. This may seem melodramatic but I think the current Tory Party, a far cry from the party my parents supported all their lives, now poses quite substantial threats to our democracy, social cohesion and prosperity. Let's get shot of them and worry about what follows later. It can only be better than this rotten government. Couldn't have said it better. This is the worst time for people to stand on their ideological purity. Plenty of time for that once we have a Labour majority. |
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barbara
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Post by barbara on Dec 13, 2023 8:23:37 GMT
"First as tragedy. Then as farce. It’s come to this. Amazed that the Tory party can even look itself in the face, let alone the country. A government that has long since given up any pretence of governing, whose only principle is to have no principles. An amoral semi- mass whose only goal is its own survival. Propped up by those who should know better. It’s like we never left 2018. Those lawless days when Tory was pitted against Tory in a never-ending Brexit war. Each one high on their own self-regard. A drug-fuelled orgy of narcissistic indulgence. Each MP certain they were the Chosen One. The Messiah blessed with the higher knowledge of The Will of the People. Hell-bent on taking us all down with them. Mark Francois, Steve Baker and Bill Cash. Take a bow. Your names liveth forevermore." John Crace I've never thought much of the Tories but there was a time when there seemed a smidgen of humanity in their ranks. Now it's a race to the most extreme of bat shit insanity, with the "research groups for lunacy", competing with the "common lack of sense cluster" Where we have Poundland* third rate hard of thinking xenophobic incompetence calling themselves " the five families" as if they're some delusional mafiosa group announcing the choice to their victims " we're going to make you an offer you can't understand " It's pathetic and humiliating this country has been on the slide since 2010 and since 2016 it's been a near vertical drop into what the fuckery. Yesterday an asylum seeker committed suicide on the government prison barge his repeated pleas for help were ignored. On the government benches not a word of remorse but just a doubling down on vitriolic xenophobia playing to the basest flaws in people's character, while pretending to be something else. A regime fit only for the dustbin. *Not fair on Poundland they actually sell some things that work. I must admit, when I was watching the ludicrous press conference hosted by the utter clown Mark Francois yesterday evening just before the vote, my overriding reaction was outrage mingled with mirth at the sheer self-aggrandisement of these nobodies. Their self importance, their absolute confidence that millions of people are clinging onto their every pathetic word, their desperation for their moment in the sun, their attitude of 'me me me.' Nothing will give me greater pleasure at hte next election if any or all of these complete asses lose their seats. |
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barbara
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Post by barbara on Dec 13, 2023 8:31:47 GMT
I was down in Manchester on Monday for my fortnightly competition dance coaching. My coach (aged 40), who is a card carrying Conservative Party member and Brexiter was spouting on about how the Rwanda deal doesn't go far enough.
Me: "You were wrong about Brexit, you were wrong about Johnson, you were wrong about Truss, all of which have been a disaster. When are you going to question your judgement?
Him: 'Brexit hasn't happened yet".
I quoted James Obrien at him. " Oh yes I forgot. There is a great Brexit, it just went to a different school". I then said, "I've not yet met a single Brexit voter who got the Brexit they thinks they were promised. Do you think that might have something to do with the lies told by the absolute scoundrels who led the campaign."
Him: " You think everyone thinks like you"
Me," No you think everyone thinks like you, but the polls suggest I'm on the right side of public opinion."
I order to get on with the dancing we agreed a bet for the election. I predicted the Tories will get around 150 seats. He bet a hung parliament.
Mad as a hatter but an excellent dance coach.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 13, 2023 8:37:13 GMT
I was quoting from carfrews original post (top of page 128), which gives the asked question as : “The polling asked adults whether they would back or oppose the Government reintroducing restrictions if the country’s health situation demanded it" Anybody got a link to the actual poll? Could it be as simple as that's what people NOW think should be the case *IF* the situation worsened and "the health situation demanded it?" Certainly I've been in a very large department store much of today, and only saw the occasional mask all day. About to get the tube in central London, so let's see roughly what the situation is there.To answer my own question, then on the entire train journey into central London, in a reasonably full train, I didn't see a single person wearing a mask. Not a single one, amongst scores of people, in rush hour. Same walking down the street just north of Oxford circus. Journey home just now on a half full train and I saw *ONE* mask being worn! Yet apparently 16% of the survey respondents are strongly in favour of reintroducing facemask wearing on public transport!? So you'd think at least most of them would be doing it voluntarily now anyway? So where were they? Frankly, as far as that survey is concerned, I call bullsh!t!! In fairness what people do in public when they're feeling under group/peer pressure and what they really think is the best thing to do are often two different things. I'd be very hesitant to don a mask on busy trains now if almost no-one else is doing that except those presumably at far greater risk but if a reasonable smattering of ordinary travellers started wearing them again I probably would too. |
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Post by wb61 on Dec 13, 2023 8:44:34 GMT
Britain needs rescuing from the Tory cult of immaculate sovereignty: Rafael Behr Some in the Conservative Party would do well to remember that the last absolute sovereign was Charles I; that didn't end well.  |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 13, 2023 8:49:52 GMT
When I spoke about Labour making common electoral cause with anti-Tory parties so that our voting system could be best gamed to oust this current government, I suppose I was inadvertently omitting to mention an unlikely ally in this noble and important endeavour. They won't need to be accommodated or bargained with either. They may well become the key wrecking ball on the right that delivers the ultimate demolition.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the heirs to UKIP; our unlikely friends Reform UK. I sense 2019 Tory voters starting to drift to them and they have a leadership in Tice, possibly soon to be supplemented by Tarzan Farage, who detest the Tory Party and seem hell bent on destroying it.
They could mutate from being the Tories great electoral friends, as they were in 2019, when Farage did a deadly deal with Johnson, to the agents that nailed the Tory coffin firmly down in 2024.
In other words, this really is time for Nigel to make his last and maybe only truly positive contribution to British politics. Cometh the hour cometh the man.
Then from the post-election wreckage emerges the true heir to the Tory crown.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 13, 2023 8:59:47 GMT
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 13, 2023 9:12:25 GMT
I was down in Manchester on Monday for my fortnightly competition dance coaching. My coach (aged 40), who is a card carrying Conservative Party member and Brexiter was spouting on about how the Rwanda deal doesn't go far enough. Me: "You were wrong about Brexit, you were wrong about Johnson, you were wrong about Truss, all of which have been a disaster. When are you going to question your judgement? Him: 'Brexit hasn't happened yet". I quoted James Obrien at him. " Oh yes I forgot. There is a great Brexit, it just went to a different school". I then said, "I've not yet met a single Brexit voter who got the Brexit they thinks they were promised. Do you think that might have something to do with the lies told by the absolute scoundrels who led the campaign." Him: " You think everyone thinks like you" Me," No you think everyone thinks like you, but the polls suggest I'm on the right side of public opinion." I order to get on with the dancing we agreed a bet for the election. I predicted the Tories will get around 150 seats. He bet a hung parliament. Mad as a hatter but an excellent dance coach. 40 and a tory member?! That must be some kind of youth record for them. I admire your ability to put it to one side. If someone like that didn't keep their views to themselves I'd find it hard to collaborate with them. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 13, 2023 9:18:55 GMT
There seems to have been enough time post the covid economic disaster for a new trend to be emerging with steady but significantly lower growth than before brexit, which happened during the covid disaster. The graph doesnt go back far enough, but wasnt growth also a lot stronger during the last labour government? eg...  Theres not any evidence here how governments can grow the economy and hence raise tax income to fill the funding/debt gap.... What there seems to be is evidence under con management, economic growth never recovered to the level before the 2008 crash, and now its dropped even below that post brexit. The plan for, well, probably explicitly ever since WW2 has been to use growth to solve funding problems. Only growth is slowing and the current government practically has a policy of slowing it as much as possible. (and growth is the only plan anyone is talking about) One explanation would be their policy of trickle up, concentrating wealth in fewer hands, has overall systematically cut overall growth. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 13, 2023 9:24:31 GMT
You would have thought that after all this time brexitanians might have realised that the EHCR and the EU were not the same thing. Here's Nellie the effluent proving that's not the case. youtu.be/lvoHsWq45Vs?si=JxueNZmUV4Rw6KhA |
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Post by shevii on Dec 13, 2023 9:32:44 GMT
Couldn't have said it better. This is the worst time for people to stand on their ideological purity. Plenty of time for that once we have a Labour majority. Pointless really having this discussion as we all know where people stand and to some degree I can understand getting rid of this Tory government is a priority but it's not the only thing that matters. However we're a long way from "ideological purity" in opposing current Labour offerings. Yes we can wait for the manifesto but Reeve's fiscal rules make it impossible to see how they will be any improvement on Osborne's fiscal rules. The NHS under Streeting doesn't have a coherent road map to any improvements whatsoever other than "efficiencies", an App (benefiting only the middle class and educated "choice" who know how to game the system just as they already do with GP appointments) and more use of private healthcare- none of this makes any difference without more people and more equipment when he's said there's no more money. If anything if he starts meddling he could make the situation worse and many NHS staff may be holding out for a change of government before deciding to pack it in when their lives don't change. Green new deal can't wait a few years for "growth" that may or may not come and in any event we have seen on global warming that traditional growth just makes the climate situation worse. There isn't time to waste and this was originally a big plank of the Labour strategy for healthy growth anyway. Labour is going to get a majority anyway because the country is so pissed off with the Tories. A Labour majority of 50 would be much healthier than a majority of 200. On current polling a 10% Green vote (splitting the vote), even though it won't happen, would make Labour sit up and take note AND they would still be forming a government. After the election is too late because Labour isn't going to pay any attention to the views of people who voted for a party that got 3% and relying on "they have nowhere else to go" to see them through later elections when they will, again, be focused on Tory voters and tailor their economic policy accordingly. A few good Green second places and much smaller Lab majorities with perhaps a couple more Green MPs in places like Bristol (not that I'm convinced they are sure to hold Brighton so could be left with no MPs and irrelevant in the short term) will make at least those Lab MPs on small majorities against the Greens push for something different but the huge Lab majorities currently projected mean Starmer can stick with his Tory lite plans with no left wing opposition to worry about. In the current political situation there has never been a better time to vote for what you actually want because Labour are still going to get a majority. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 13, 2023 9:47:47 GMT
if a reasonable smattering of ordinary travellers started wearing them again I probably would too. That does go a long way to explain how come people put up with mask wearing in the first place, absent any evidence it did any real good. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 13, 2023 9:53:39 GMT
To answer my own question, then on the entire train journey into central London, in a reasonably full train, I didn't see a single person wearing a mask. Not a single one, amongst scores of people, in rush hour. Same walking down the street just north of Oxford circus. Journey home just now on a half full train and I saw *ONE* mask being worn! Yet apparently 16% of the survey respondents are strongly in favour of reintroducing facemask wearing on public transport!? So you'd think at least most of them would be doing it voluntarily now anyway? So where were they? Frankly, as far as that survey is concerned, I call bullsh!t!! In fairness what people do in public when they're feeling under group/peer pressure Indeed, though some feel that pressure more than others. Depends in part how tribal they are (or how tribal others expect them to be, or let them be. It’s interesting on this board, that there are some who are very tribal and others who like to do more of their own thing). |
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