c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 11, 2023 21:47:07 GMT
Fifth of British public would support reintroduction of Covid restrictions
Poll surveying more than 2,000 people over 18 finds those aged 25 to 42 most likely to back restrictions
“The polling asked adults whether they would back or oppose the Government reintroducing restrictions if the country’s health situation demanded it.
The poll, carried out by research group More in Common, surveyed more than 2,000 people over the age of 18 and showed that those aged 25 to 42 were most likely to back restrictions.
Some 16 per cent of those polled said they would “strongly support” rules enforcing the wearing of face masks on public transport, while 29 per cent said they would “somewhat support” them.
Asked about the closing of nightclubs, 13 per cent said they would strongly support this, with 16 per cent saying they would be somewhat in favour.
Meanwhile, eight per cent of respondents said they would strongly support the reintroduction of the Rule of Six, whereby people would only be allowed to meet in groups of up to six people outdoors. Some 14 per cent said they somewhat supported the reintroduction of the rule.
The closure of pubs and restaurants was strongly supported by seven per cent of respondents, with 13 per cent partly supporting it.
Some eight per cent of people surveyed said they would strongly support the Government only allowing people to leave their homes for essential shopping, 60 minutes of exercise and work – similar to measures enforced at the height of Covid lockdowns.”
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“The majority of those polled said they were opposed to the reintroduction of any restrictions, with 48 per cent somewhat or strongly against face mask rules on public transport and 61 per cent somewhat or strongly opposed to closing nightclubs.”
Telegraph
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 11, 2023 21:54:27 GMT
Hardly scientific, just anecdotal, I was in the local shop the other day when a load of schoolkids piled in (I'd guess at 13-18 years old). I saw no difference in size from when I was in school myself. Indeed many of then seemed to be stick thin/skinny. A few larger ones, but, that was the case way back when as well. Funnily enough this lasy summer I was musing this question myself, thinking how so many people you saw about a seaside town looked rather bigger than they once had, at all ages. |
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Post by graham on Dec 11, 2023 23:40:03 GMT
You lot really are something - I haven't posted for two weeks and not a bit of concern from anyone of you as to the possible state of my condition. What a bunch of misogynists gits - if I was a retired ROC posters there would have been at least three pages of posts contemplating my fate. I could have been kidnapped by Barberry Pirates for all you lot know or care.
On a much more serious note, I think its perfectly reasonable for LOC voters to question what Labour's position will actually be if, and its still is an if, they form the next govt. Whatever Labour does will be done in the name/with the justification of those who voted for them, so those who vote for them have a right to know what type of government they are actually voting for.
I get that tactically there is a need not to fall into traps etc but undeniably Labour policy has shifted significantly to the right, and for many of us on the left gone much further than Starmer needed to in order not to 'scare the horses'. I fear the opportunity for a genuine mandate for a number of LOC positions has unnecessarily been squandered. As I am relatively economically literate, I also understand that the current environment and outlook is a major constraint, and what may have been possible 5 years ago in terms of scope of action is not possible now. However, I do fear that Reeves is falling far to much towards certain dogmatic positions that will act as a limiting factors on what the government does do.
The likes of myself are likely to turn up and vote for non-Tory parties, and many will vote tactically as they ultimately do want to see the back of the Tories. Some will abstain or vote Green etc, and those who do so are perfectly legitimate to do so. If right-wing propaganda aimed at suppressing left-wing VI for Labour is successful, the main reason for it being so is due to the element of truth there is in relation to Starmer's shift to the right and side-lining of the left in the party.
(sorry batty but it has to be said) As for what you say about Labour's timidity and drift to the right under Starmer, I stick to my position that we may be over-interpreting pre-election positioning and various teasing dances of the seven veils for policy commitment when in government. Starmer is following, in my view anyway, Labour's one and only proven route to power when trying to escape opposition and topple a Tory Government. That route presupposes, correctly in my view, that the party needs to give millions of unaligned and traditionally sceptical voters the permission to vote Labour. The party doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that the Tories do, not from the voters nor the political and cultural establishment. History tells us that permission is rarely granted and certain pre-conditions have to be met on economic competence and trust with power for it to be so given. It's the way our electorate tends to be. In the absence of evidence that the pre-conditions are met they huddle centre-right. Was that true in 1964 or 1974? It certainly was not the case in 1945 - thugh I accept that conditions were then rather exceptional. |
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Post by Mark on Dec 12, 2023 0:02:54 GMT
Anyone know what time the crunch vote is taking place tomorrow?
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Post by mercian on Dec 12, 2023 0:03:02 GMT
How difficult would it be for someone to pretend in the application to have different views to the ones they really hold? Why do you immediately assume people would be dishonest? In my experience (except sometimes in the criminal courts) people generally tend towards telling the truth, particularly about what they believe as it is core to who they are. I was just wondering that if a particular faction wanted to pack the audience, how difficult would it be? Politics is a dirty game, and as someone pointed out Conservatives are routinely attacked by the audience. Therefore it suggests that the audience is not balanced when even in these times around 25% of declared intentions support them and another 30%-ish of the total are Don't Know or Don't Care. |
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Post by mercian on Dec 12, 2023 0:07:14 GMT
This is the issue with Farage, he has a loyal fan base, but a much bigger group who don't like him He's not the answer to the tories electoral woes 30 favourable out of 84 who have an opinion is 36% (rounded). A lot better than the Tories at the moment. |
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Post by mercian on Dec 12, 2023 0:15:50 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter"I could have been kidnapped by Barberry Pirates for all you lot know or care." There's a whole genre of stories on that very subject on our private website. I suggest you apply to @fecklessmiser for the web address and password, though I apologise for the content, none of which was supplied by me.
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Post by mercian on Dec 12, 2023 0:17:30 GMT
Why do you immediately assume people would be dishonest? In my experience (except sometimes in the criminal courts) people generally tend towards telling the truth, particularly about what they believe as it is core to who they are. In my experience those who assume other people are habitually dishonest are just reflecting themselves. It's just experience of life. I'm not as naive as I once was and as you still are apparently. |
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Post by graham on Dec 12, 2023 0:22:17 GMT
Anyone know what time the crunch vote is taking place tomorrow? 7pm I believe. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 12, 2023 0:45:00 GMT
Danny - "Several people have pointed out to you that a sampling process where you take a group which repeatedly acts the same way is not going to be representative of the national population." So it's just as well that StatCan, like most of the other studies into long covid prevalence, use a randomly sampled selection of the entire population to derive their statistics, isn't it? But yes, it is getting repetitious, having to explain to people like you that you can choose to follow the evidence, or you can choose to pretend everything's just fine, you can choose to invent unseen pandemics in small seaside towns, etc etc. I prefer the evidence. Theres a page from the canadian government here: health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/post-covid-condition/spring-2023-report.htmlWhether its right or wrong, they estimate 1/3 of people with covid are unaware they have it. That is quite a high number for a government agency to admit to. I tried to find a decent writeup by the government of exactly the methodolgy used in this testing. In particular, how the sample group was derived, and then how it was tested. I have yet to find how the sample was derived. In the similar ONS process, they chose people at random and asked them to participate. If they refused, they chose some more. The problem of course is this generates a set of people willing to be tested. Which begs the question whether there is a difference between those who want to find out if they have covid or covid antibodies, and those who do not want to be flagged as positive. For example, a very safe but very scared person might choose to opt in. An abbatoir worker who would get locked down might refuse to take part because they would lose money if off work (an example from where big infections were found). So, first problem sample bias. Second problem the tests. I finally tracked down a page which confirmed they used off the shelf antibody tests and used the manufacturers' defintions of a positive result. see www.covid19immunitytaskforce.ca/seroprevalence-in-canada/ They used roche, abbot and mesoscale tests for infections. Havnt looked at the other two, but I have explained the Roche test before. It defines a positive result as scoring 1 on a scale from about 0.0001 to 10000. But then the problem comes, what is the meaning of a score of 0.1, for examples. Roche say the answer is you do not have protective antibodies against covid. They dont actually say much about whether you had it in the past, they seem silent on that. However other researchers have argued that the meaning of 0.1 is also positive for a past infection. It makes an enormous difference to the percentage positive where you choose the cutoff, especially as blood antibody levels fall steadily with time. The only legitimate reason for not scoring even a result of 0.001 as positive is if there might be errors causing spurious results. Roche do not go into this at all. They made tests to prove people have antibodies now, not to prove they had them in the past. In reality this test only says you definitely did have covid for a subset of the real total of people who did.
I'd remind people I had covid in nov 2019, demonstrably because of the symptoms of loss of sense of smell and traceable contact to wuhan. Then in spring 21 I had an antibody test scoring about 0.03, ie an official Roche negative. Then in spring 2022 I had a positive covid test while i had a bit of a mild cold. No vaccination, of course. I find all that pretty conclusive that in 22 I was already immune and had the real first much more severe infection in 2019. Thats an example of why this testing process based on antibody levels is simply wrong.
If you ignore most people who had the disease, fundamentally because they were on the mild side so didnt create as much antibody, then you have created a sample hugely biased towards people who had it badly, and very probably therefore towards also having long covid badly.
Dont forget, government in the Uk actually banned antibody tests for the general public in 2020, so at the time they might have told us something useful about people who had recently had covid.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 12, 2023 6:31:41 GMT
Why do you immediately assume people would be dishonest? In my experience (except sometimes in the criminal courts) people generally tend towards telling the truth, particularly about what they believe as it is core to who they are. I was just wondering that if a particular faction wanted to pack the audience, how difficult would it be? Politics is a dirty game, and as someone pointed out Conservatives are routinely attacked by the audience. Therefore it suggests that the audience is not balanced when even in these times around 25% of declared intentions support them and another 30%-ish of the total are Don't Know or Don't Care. In the post below your one I quoted you mention how the tories are even more unpopular with the public than Farage, who is very unpopular. Not surprising then that an audience who want to go to a political talk show would reflect that unpopularity in the country The people who don't know or care wouldn't be attending in the first place |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 12, 2023 6:36:36 GMT
Polling on Sunak’s honesty...spoiler he's not
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 12, 2023 6:59:53 GMT
This morning's news. First off talking about the vote on the immigration bill. A reporter described talking to an off the record cabinet minister asking about how the government could survive until late next year given the splits within it and the complex mix of inability to pass this bill, or be certain it would even do what its supposed to do. The cabinet minister is reported to have replied "there's no chance of that"
So...cabinet talking about an early election?
And then an item about 8,000 deaths in mental care patients in Norfolk and Suffolk NHS mental care trust in three years. Apparently coroners have been warning about this for years without any action. Probably deaths of rather younger than average people. Since the NHS is in a state of collapse due to lack of funding, which very clearly could be seen in rising overall death rates before covid ever arrived, its reasonable to expect these rising deaths would have continued in the background through the covid years. Anyone trying to calculate excess deaths caused by covid needs to deduct from their totals extra deaths caused by NHS underfunding for everything else.
Incidentally, mental health patients are presumably just as likely as any other to catch covid because they are in a hospital, or in this case detained in a hospital. If they then suicide (or die mysteriously) while testing positive, presumably that also counts as a covid death. The definition of a covid admission to hospital has always simply been anyone in hospital for any reason who catches covid. It may be this is a significant source of younger people being claimed as covid admissions or covid deaths.
And on the subject of NHS deaths, apparently the death rate of women from cancer in London is 1/10, but in Manchester 1/6. Which anomaly is highly suggestive of failing services. And of course very unlikely to be to do with whether they did or didnt have covid.
Parliamentary committee asking a home office official about government spending on Rwanda, apparently found out details because the Rwandan government told the IMF it was getting the money. The civil servant was asked why he could not have told them said, 'it was commercially sensitive information'. What?
The civil servant also said if the UK pulls out without ever sending anyone, Rwanda keeps all the money.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 12, 2023 7:18:12 GMT
In my experience those who assume other people are habitually dishonest are just reflecting themselves. It's just experience of life. I'm not as naive as I once was and as you still are apparently. Maybe we associate with different types of people eh? |
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Post by barbara on Dec 12, 2023 7:56:57 GMT
You, like the |Grauniad, are assuming that Sunak is lying when he says that he has several times changed phones and no longer has those old messages. Do you have evidence that he is lying? What I don't understand is why he didn't just transfer the messages over I'm not tech savvy but it's really easy to do, Sunak is supposed to be good at tech As a private person I find it useful to keep my messages. As a Government Minister I would have thought it essential For info this is how you do it "Here's how to do it. Make sure your new phone and your old phone are connected to Wi-Fi with location enabled. On your old phone, go to Settings, and then click Chats. Tap Chat transfer, and a QR code will show up. Scan the QR code on your old phone with your new phone. Keep both phones on that screen while the chats and media all transfer over." If he was using official government phones this would either happen automatically or done by his officials. If it was his personal phones why the hell was he using them for official work business. Most employees would be disciplined/sacked for doing that. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 12, 2023 8:08:05 GMT
What I don't understand is why he didn't just transfer the messages over I'm not tech savvy but it's really easy to do, Sunak is supposed to be good at tech As a private person I find it useful to keep my messages. As a Government Minister I would have thought it essential For info this is how you do it "Here's how to do it. Make sure your new phone and your old phone are connected to Wi-Fi with location enabled. On your old phone, go to Settings, and then click Chats. Tap Chat transfer, and a QR code will show up. Scan the QR code on your old phone with your new phone. Keep both phones on that screen while the chats and media all transfer over." If he was using official government phones this would either happen automatically or done by his officials. If it was his personal phones why the hell was he using them for official work business. Most employees would be disciplined/sacked for doing that. What gets me he claims he wants the UK to be a global centre/powerhouse for A1/TECH but wants us to believe he's not capable of doing the very simple job of transferring messages across to his new phone He must think we're idiots |
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Post by barbara on Dec 12, 2023 8:14:23 GMT
If he was using official government phones this would either happen automatically or done by his officials. If it was his personal phones why the hell was he using them for official work business. Most employees would be disciplined/sacked for doing that. And why has no one asked this question - either in the Inquiry or in the press/TV In any event I've had numerous phones and my WhatsApp messages are just there once I've download the app on my new phone. It just happened. I didn't press anything to save my message on my old phone. I can do it and I'm 70 and not particularly tech savvy. I cannot believe Sunak didn't know this. Alsop if your phone's not working you can access your WhatsApp messages on t'interweb. Honestly these politicians must think ordinary people in this country are totally stupid, unintelligent and ignorant of the real world. (Or so totally tribal like birdseye that the cognitive dissonance that would occur should they try to doubt the veracity of their side's account of stuff would be too much to cope with.) |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 12, 2023 8:23:21 GMT
It's just experience of life. I'm not as naive as I once was and as you still are apparently. Maybe we associate with different types of people eh? Mercian meets up with crossbat, if that helps any |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 12, 2023 8:38:47 GMT
If he was using official government phones this would either happen automatically or done by his officials. If it was his personal phones why the hell was he using them for official work business. Most employees would be disciplined/sacked for doing that. What gets me he claims he wants the UK to be a global centre/powerhouse for A1/TECH but wants us to believe he's not capable of doing the very simple job of transferring messages across to his new phone He must think we're idiots instead of debates, we could have potential leaders doing tasks on telly, like transferring data between phones, analysing antibody data and what it really says about infection rates, assessing the prospects of different battery paradigms, conducting experiments on mask efficacy, and modelling a complex system in software. (Like the Krypton Factor meets The Apprentice. Losers have to eat bugs in the jungle) |
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Post by wb61 on Dec 12, 2023 8:41:26 GMT
If he was using official government phones this would either happen automatically or done by his officials. If it was his personal phones why the hell was he using them for official work business. Most employees would be disciplined/sacked for doing that. And why has no one asked this question - either in the Inquiry or in the press/TV The answer to that, in terms of the questions asked in the Inquiry, to some extent lies in its purpose, which is to make recommendations for future conduct and not to find guilt. Unlike in a court case where each party will have a theory of the case which they will attempt to establish as fact, an Inquiry will not have a pre-existing theory. Thus in a court case during cross-examination a barrister will, along with testing that witness' evidence, put to a witness a version of facts which supports that party's theory of the case. In an inquiry the questions will only test the witness' evidence and not advance an alternative case. You will have noted that Keith KC tests evidence by putting other witnesses' versions of events and other known facts to a witness; if that question has not been asked it's because no other witness has advanced it as a proposition. In any event one of the final recommendations may well be that there should be a policy of ensuring that all communications on government business between ministers are kept to official phones and backed up regularly. |
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Post by wb61 on Dec 12, 2023 8:46:19 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 12, 2023 8:50:18 GMT
Came across this video comparing medieval armour with the stuff I used to have to wear on occasions on the TSG. If you wondered why it took significant time for police to respond here's part of the reason putting all the bloody kit on. youtu.be/x5drjdFuo7k?si=CFK9ucY1k1Lqp1aN |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Dec 12, 2023 8:51:28 GMT
In my experience those who assume other people are habitually dishonest are just reflecting themselves. It's just experience of life. I'm not as naive as I once was and as you still are apparently. |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Dec 12, 2023 8:53:21 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter "I could have been kidnapped by Barberry Pirates for all you lot know or care." There's a whole genre of stories on that very subject on our private website. I suggest you apply to @fecklessmiser for the web address and password, though I apologise for the content, none of which was supplied by me. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 12, 2023 8:54:48 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 12, 2023 8:59:35 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter "I could have been kidnapped by Barberry Pirates for all you lot know or care." I didn't even know she had a boat 
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2023 9:15:48 GMT
CON MPs leaving No. 10 after 'Breakfast with Rishi' looked pretty glum. They're either brilliant poker players or all is not well in Toryland. Things could get quite interesting about 7pm this evening.
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Post by wb61 on Dec 12, 2023 9:24:23 GMT
CON MPs leaving No. 10 after 'Breakfast with Rishi' looked pretty glum. They're either brilliant poker players or all is not well in Toryland. Things could get quite interesting about 7pm this evening. Ali Miraj (former Conservative candidate) suggested on TV this morning that the PM should say to the potential rebels he will call an election if the Bill isn't supported today; perhaps he has inside knowledge. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 12, 2023 9:24:49 GMT
The usually suspect.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 12, 2023 9:27:28 GMT
This way to electoral oblivion.  |
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