steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 9:36:19 GMT
"One of the chaps in those pics looks like Davy Crockett, so I'm wondering whether it's Fess Parker doing a promotional tour for the 1955 film about Crockett? "
Parker of course appeared for the Hatters on a free transfer in the 2010-11 season, quite a catch as he'd only died 6 months earlier.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 9:37:21 GMT
"You, like the |Grauniad, are assuming that Sunak is lying when he says that he has several times changed phones and no longer has those old messages. Do you have evidence that he is lying?"
His mouth opens and sounds emerge.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 11, 2023 9:53:15 GMT
"One of the chaps in those pics looks like Davy Crockett, so I'm wondering whether it's Fess Parker doing a promotional tour for the 1955 film about Crockett? " Parker of course appeared for the Hatters on a free transfer in the 2010-11 season, quite a catch as he'd only died 6 months earlier. That was in the era of the infamous 4 2 3 0 formation. I was going to say that my team still plays that way, but as our centre forward plays for Scotland I don't want to upset Alec, so I won't. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 11, 2023 9:55:32 GMT
"You, like the |Grauniad, are assuming that Sunak is lying when he says that he has several times changed phones and no longer has those old messages. Do you have evidence that he is lying?" His mouth opens and sounds emerge. William Hague's witty observation too when he was asked about how he could tell when Tony Blair was being economical sans la vérité. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 10:08:17 GMT
"One of the chaps in those pics looks like Davy Crockett, so I'm wondering whether it's Fess Parker doing a promotional tour for the 1955 film about Crockett? " Parker of course appeared for the Hatters on a free transfer in the 2010-11 season, quite a catch as he'd only died 6 months earlier. My English teacher, Mr Parker, was known to us as Fez. Nobody seemed to know why in the '70s, but with the wisdom of age, I think it must have been a corruption of Fess dating from his 1950s glory days (Fess, not Mr Parker!). |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 11, 2023 10:09:15 GMT
I heard a full interview on this on R4 Today programme where Kendall was asked about each aspect of the Cleverly proposals in turn and on each and every occasion she essentially sat on the fence by referring everything to the Migration Advisory Committee. However, contrary to hireton's suggestion, she did not endorse the Tory proposals and implied the £38k figure was too high. It looks like a wish to avoid the trap the Conservative's are setting of forcing Labour to tie themselves to a specific figure. However, it did also come over as dodging the question and so rather weak. I was unaware of the Migration Advisory Committee previously and I have no idea what they would be likely to recommend, but if they act like a typical quango they will probably split the difference and go for something higher than current (£18,600 if I recollect correctly) but lower than the Tory one. www.gov.uk/government/organisations/migration-advisory-committee/aboutHireton is determined to play whatever incredibly small part he can by following the current SNP playbook to the letter in trying to alienate the left wing Labour vote. Just like Trevor was doing recently. Now what political interests could those two possibly have in common? Oh yes of course, continued tory government at the UK level, albeit for different reasons. This SNP strategy of using every opportunity to paint Labour as indistinct from the tories does puzzle me in a Scottish context (can see why it makes sense in England). Presumably the SNP want unionists in Scotland to not vote Labour and doesn't depicting Labour as similar to the tories have the danger of encouraging Scottish tory voters to feel safe lending their pan-unionist vote to Labour in ABSNP tactical voting? I assume the objective is to minimise direct switchers from SNP to Labour. These have been less important to Labour's rise in the Scottish polls than the movement within the unionist camp, but significant enough to be worrying for the Nats. After all, they in effect count double in the many SNP v Labour seats. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 11, 2023 10:12:33 GMT
You, like the |Grauniad, are assuming that Sunak is lying when he says that he has several times changed phones and no longer has those old messages. Do you have evidence that he is lying? You appear to be confusing my saying that he didn’t hand them in (and indicating that this had been in the news), with saying someone is lying about why they didn’t hand them in (which I didn’t say or suggest). |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 11, 2023 10:15:23 GMT
domjg
I think Hireton and OldNat are indulging in pretty basic Scottish party politics, no more no less. And maybe, in terms of protecting the SNP's increasingly vulnerable state in that benighted polity, of which we know little, understandably so too.
Labour have moved into a position where they are seriously threatening the SNP and are therefore now public enemy number one. When they became a joke in Scottish politics between 2015 and fairly recently, they were left alone and fire was trained instead on Ruth Davidson's Tories who emerged, albeit briefly, as the SNP's main rival. Now it's Sawar and Starmer so the guns have been redirected. Pretty base party politics, in other words, and I wouldn't attach much more to it than that. Hireton and OldNat can read the opinion polls like the rest of us. It's Get Labour time now. Fair enough; it makes sense.
The attack lines on Starmer from the Tories and Labour left do lead them to bizarrely make common cause with each other and you can see, rather amusingly, how they often reach out to each other on this forum. I suppose it makes perfect sense for posters like Trevor and Colin to foment and exploit left wing Starmer-loathing. There's plenty of it about and when there aren't too many other useable sticks with which to beat Starmer, then "Red Tory" isn't a bad one to have some fun with, I suppose. Not much else in the armoury at the moment.
Trevor found Novara Media and Stats for Lefties an absolute goldmine. The SNP are hunting on similar terrain, I think, hence the Kendall is a closet Tory attack line from Hireton.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 10:20:22 GMT
Here's Fez just before he scored a hat trick in the 4-2 win over Eastbourne Borough in October 2010. I remember the match as I called the gate office to check the kick off time and was told " what time can you get here"  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 10:24:18 GMT
crossbat11I do find it a tad odd that as a lib dem party member I tend to be one of the first to defend the Labour leader, given that I think his policies on both Brexit and migration are weak and inadequate and pander to the hard of thinking , if any Labour member's here would like to offer a more full throated defence feel free.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 11, 2023 10:29:24 GMT
domjg I think Hireton and OldNat are indulging in pretty basic Scottish party politics, no more no less. And maybe, in terms of protecting the SNP's increasingly vulnerable state in that benighted polity, of which we know little, understandably so too. Labour have moved into a position where they are seriously threatening the SNP and are therefore now public enemy number one. When they became a joke in Scottish politics between 2015 and fairly recently, they were left alone and fire was trained instead on Ruth Davidson's Tories who emerged, albeit briefly, as the SNP's main rival. Now it's Sawar and Starmer so the guns have been redirected. Pretty base party politics, in other words, and I wouldn't attach much more to it than that. Hireton and OldNat can read the opinion polls like the rest of us. It's Get Labour time now. Fair enough; it makes sense. The attack lines on Starmer from the Tories and Labour left do lead them to bizarrely make common cause with each other and you can see, rather amusingly, how they often reach out to each other on this forum. I suppose it makes perfect sense for posters like Trevor and Colin to foment and exploit left wing Starmer-loathing. There's plenty of it about and when there aren't too many other useable sticks with which to beat Starmer, then "Red Tory" isn't a bad one to have some fun with, I suppose. Not much else in the armoury at the moment. Trevor found Novara Media and Stats for Lefties an absolute goldmine. The SNP are hunting on similar terrain, I think, hence the Kendall is a closet Tory attack line from Hireton. As the great majority of UKPR2 poster's are in the English polity one wonders what is the point of attacking Labour for Scottish reasons on here. I haven't seen any posts, ever, by a right wing Scot on the site. If such posts are meant to reduce Labour supporters it's actually trying to improve the chances of Tories remaining in power. Yes Labour may be the current main SNP enemy in Scotland but this is a UK wide site with virtually no professed Scottish Labour, Lib Dem or Tory members, so who is it trying to influence? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 10:31:40 GMT
Here's Fez just before he scored a hat trick in the 4-2 win over Eastbourne Borough in October 2010. View AttachmentYes. Just like that! |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 11, 2023 10:33:14 GMT
Hireton is determined to play whatever incredibly small part he can by following the current SNP playbook to the letter in trying to alienate the left wing Labour vote. Just like Trevor was doing recently. Now what political interests could those two possibly have in common? Oh yes of course, continued tory government at the UK level, albeit for different reasons. This SNP strategy of using every opportunity to paint Labour as indistinct from the tories does puzzle me in a Scottish context (can see why it makes sense in England). Presumably the SNP want unionists in Scotland to not vote Labour and doesn't depicting Labour as similar to the tories have the danger of encouraging Scottish tory voters to feel safe lending their pan-unionist vote to Labour in ABSNP tactical voting? I assume the objective is to minimise direct switchers from SNP to Labour. These have been less important to Labour's rise in the Scottish polls than the movement within the unionist camp, but significant enough to be worrying for the Nats. After all, they in effect count double in the many SNP v Labour seats. Makes sense but I wonder how many people really think the SNP are more public service focussed than Labour? That recent report on Scottish schools was pretty damning. Maybe they're just trying to play on their liberal cultural creds which, ok, but didn't they have a leadership candidate who was anti-abortion? |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 10:36:14 GMT
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 11, 2023 10:41:05 GMT
crossbat11I do find it a tad odd that as a lib dem party member I tend to be one of the first to defend the Labour leader, given that I think his policies on both Brexit and migration are weak and inadequate and pander to the hard of thinking , if any Labour member's here would like to offer a more full throated defence feel free. I think a number of us have been branded Starmer apologists by our left wing friends on here for offering qualified defences of Starmer's current political strategy and pre-election positioning of the party. Interestingly, as you observe, it does seem a relatively minority sport on this forum, certainly amongst those who post frequently. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 11, 2023 10:44:57 GMT
Next UK election set to be the most unequal for 60 years according to IPPR. The next election is set to be the most unequal in 60 years thanks to a rising gap in voter turnout based on age, income, class, home ownership and ethnicity, a new study has found.
The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), a centre-left thinktank, found that the turnout gap was negligible between social groups in the 1960s, but that it had grown by 2010 to 18 percentage points between the top set of earners – who are more likely to vote – and the bottom set.
It rises to a 23-point gap between homeowners – who were more likely to vote – and renters, and a 15-point gap between graduates and those who did not go to university. There are 28 points between those aged 61 and over who were more likely to vote than 18-24-year-olds.
The IPPR found that nine in every 10 people in the top third of the income distribution voted in the two most recent general elections, compared with only seven in 10 from the bottom third.We've always known that older voters are more inclined to vote than younger voters, but that many lower earners have given up on democracy is concerning.
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Post by johntel on Dec 11, 2023 10:58:30 GMT
That's very interesting, SDA. One of the chaps in those pics looks like Davy Crockett, so I'm wondering whether it's Fess Parker doing a promotional tour for the 1955 film about Crockett? It was and I have a vague memory of seeing the film at grandad's cinema. I also remember the unique aroma of the cinema's store room with shelves of chocolate, cigarettes and Kia Ora etc. I don't recall any popcorn at all. Banning popcorn in cinemas is about the single best thing the government could do to reduce the obesity crisis and the cost of living crisis. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 11:28:45 GMT
johntel "Banning popcorn in cinemas is about the single best thing the government could do to reduce the obesity crisis and the cost of living crisis." Given that on average a person in the UK might go to the cinema once a year I think this might prove a tad inadequate as a public health and economic policy. But it's a start. 
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 11:33:35 GMT
Sunakered at the covid enquiry.
You get a better impression how very, very, irritating his voice is when exposed to more of it.
Something to look out for in the election campaign.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 11, 2023 11:36:45 GMT
You, like the |Grauniad, are assuming that Sunak is lying when he says that he has several times changed phones and no longer has those old messages. Do you have evidence that he is lying? What I don't understand is why he didn't just transfer the messages over I'm not tech savvy but it's really easy to do, Sunak is supposed to be good at tech As a private person I find it useful to keep my messages. As a Government Minister I would have thought it essential For info this is how you do it "Here's how to do it. Make sure your new phone and your old phone are connected to Wi-Fi with location enabled. On your old phone, go to Settings, and then click Chats. Tap Chat transfer, and a QR code will show up. Scan the QR code on your old phone with your new phone. Keep both phones on that screen while the chats and media all transfer over." |
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 11:59:33 GMT
Sunakered's inability to remember anything that happened just three years ago is somewhat concerning.
It would be reassuring to think our prime minister's memory isn't totally fucked.
Oh it's ok I've just remembered he's lying!
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Post by Mark on Dec 11, 2023 12:15:56 GMT
To add to the debate on obesity...
In terms of obesity, that being determined by body size, I wonder if this is overplayed a little.
Hardly scientific, just anecdotal, I was in the local shop the other day when a load of schoolkids piled in (I'd guess at 13-18 years old). I saw no difference in size from when I was in school myself. Indeed many of then seemed to be stick thin/skinny. A few larger ones, but, that was the case way back when as well.
Another aspect is metabolism. Personally, I could eat a tub of lard and wouldn't see any addition to my size, yet I have friends that would only have to look at a bar of chocolate and the pounds pile on.
Having said that, in terms of health outcomes/healthy lifestyles, you cannot argue with the figures. I just think that making a correlation with body size can be misleading...and can also encourage fat shaming / eating disorders.
In terms of healthy eating, I do think a few things are being overlooked...
Firstly, housing.
Yes, you read that right. In particular, shared housing / HMO's, a ype of housing that has seen a huge increase in the last couple of decades.
Once the preserve of students, now increasingly common amongst young (ish) people, who simply cannot afford any other option.
The reason this has an effect on eating is simple. Many who live in this type of housing have limited facilities for cooking meals. In some cases, this could possibly be tied in with fire regulations or over cautious landlords....but, simply put those with limited means to cook meals have no option but to live off chips / microwave meals.
In terms of cooking meals from scratch, something the media tells us we all should do, anyone without a freezer or limited freezer space will struggle.
The larger supermarkets have increasingly moved out of town, eaning a fiver or more on the bus, or the equivalent in petrol money. The local stores that have sprung up in their place having very limited products for making meals. (Personally, I'm lucky enough to have a few Asian food shops within walking distance, which are far, far better for buying ingredients for cooking meals than the local Tesco/Sainsburys).
Finally, the cost of living crisis has had a huge impact, with many people switching to 'value' brands/ranges as well as loss leader type offers, which are often on less healthy foods. It's all very ell telling people to eat healthy, but, for those on limited budgets, it's virually impossible.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 11, 2023 12:35:41 GMT
In profiles in courage news. The traitor has said for weeks that he looked forward to giving his evidence at his civil fraud trial in New York It's evidence day So brave brave sir Donald bravely ran away. His explanation for his abject and entirely predictable cowardice, he wouldn't be allowed to insult the judge, his clerk, or the prosecutor during his evidence. What a pussy. youtu.be/g7vBid7_J8s?si=aUXB7xSqe_fuXOGh |
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Post by Mark on Dec 11, 2023 12:40:37 GMT
guymonde wrote :- "I occasionally weaken and watch a bit of Question Time. Fiona Bruce asked the audience - no doubt carefully selected for balance - for those who supported Rwanda policy to put their hands up. One hand wen up and a rather weedy support was given. She said surely there must be others. Another hand went up but it turned out he didn't support Rwanda! That ship had sailed" I also watched the program and yes, Fiona introduce the program saying it was a Con constituency but as usual that the audience was balenced. I found it difficult to believe that Fiona had such difficulty finding anyone supporting the government position on Rwanda (perhaps that is because no-one knows what the true position is) However, during the previous couple of days Sunak and several ministers referred to the fact that the Rwanda program was what voters wanted. I thought at the time that, as usual, it was a Tory lie and this audience confirmed it. I gave up watching QT years ago but when I accidentally catch a few minutes it always strikes me that the audience seem to be 90% loony lefties akin the the Just Stop Oil fanatics. Perhaps they're balanced in the sense of 50% Corbynites and 50% Militant? Having been in the audience myself, I can report that when you apply, you are asked questions about what party you support, where you stand on current salient issues etc. There are often individual audience members that are Corbynista/SWP types, just as you get tory right/UKIP type people. What has changed is the attitude to Tory politicians (to an extrnt you saw th mirror image of this at the arse end of the last Labour government). Most weeks, the tory panellist gets little applause, but is often met with jeers, even laughter. However, often, a centre right pannelist, eg, a journalist, will often get applause on some issues. This suggest to me that the tory 'brand' has become increasingly toxic - people are simply not listening to them anymore. |
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Post by bardin1 on Dec 11, 2023 13:06:02 GMT
I assume the objective is to minimise direct switchers from SNP to Labour. These have been less important to Labour's rise in the Scottish polls than the movement within the unionist camp, but significant enough to be worrying for the Nats. After all, they in effect count double in the many SNP v Labour seats. Makes sense but I wonder how many people really think the SNP are more public service focussed than Labour? That recent report on Scottish schools was pretty damning. Maybe they're just trying to play on their liberal cultural creds which, ok, but didn't they have a leadership candidate who was anti-abortion? I think its simply that both independence supporting parties in scotland have a traditionally left wing set of policies (anti privatisation, pro state run ediucation, pro immigration, anti brexit, pro free prescriptions, higher taxes for wealthier people). Labour appears to be abandoning these or at least not being vocal about their policies on these, and there is therefore good reason to fear that a Labour administration would be not much better for a largely left wing polity in Scotland than the Tories would. Polling in Scotland suggests Scots are largely pro-immigration, for example. Labour under Starmer does not appear to be. Anyway, I don't think Labour in the UK have anything to worry about - they will romp home at Westminister and I think the woes of the SNP will swing at least 15 seats their way without any need for campaigning. From a personal viewpoint I am sure Starmer will be better in practice by far that the last 5 years of Tory government (it would be hard to be worse) and we will not see the excessive pandering to the Dail Mail readership that has been the case recently. I just feel a bit sad that there seem to be virtually no left wing policies on offer. Even a committment to raise the lowest tax band would be something? |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 11, 2023 13:10:33 GMT
Awkward
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 11, 2023 13:26:45 GMT
Makes sense but I wonder how many people really think the SNP are more public service focussed than Labour? That recent report on Scottish schools was pretty damning. Maybe they're just trying to play on their liberal cultural creds which, ok, but didn't they have a leadership candidate who was anti-abortion? I think its simply that both independence supporting parties in scotland have a traditionally left wing set of policies (anti privatisation, pro state run ediucation, pro immigration, anti brexit, pro free prescriptions, higher taxes for wealthier people). Labour appears to be abandoning these or at least not being vocal about their policies on these, and there is therefore good reason to fear that a Labour administration would be not much better for a largely left wing polity in Scotland than the Tories would. Polling in Scotland suggests Scots are largely pro-immigration, for example. Labour under Starmer does not appear to be. Anyway, I don't think Labour in the UK have anything to worry about - they will romp home at Westminister and I think the woes of the SNP will swing at least 15 seats their way without any need for campaigning. From a personal viewpoint I am sure Starmer will be better in practice by far that the last 5 years of Tory government (it would be hard to be worse) and we will not see the excessive pandering to the Dail Mail readership that has been the case recently. I just feel a bit sad that there seem to be virtually no left wing policies on offer. Even a committment to raise the lowest tax band would be something? Never mind policies, just in terms of decency, of respect for the rule of law, of probity and respecting due process and lack of corruption the Labour administration will be a world away from what we've had with the tories. They have been dragging the state of our governance onto a par of that with devoloping nations. |
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Post by hireton on Dec 11, 2023 13:35:33 GMT
@sda
It's interesting that almost any expression of doubt or criticism of Labour is interpteted by Labour loyalists as trying to influence somebody. Is anybody on this site trying to exert influence? I really doubt it and, if they are, they should probably do something less futile.
Observations on Labour's strategy and policies so far as they can be reliably identified are more prominent because it is likely that it will form the next UK Government and they are more significant as we are now effectively in the long election campaign.
It is also odd that most Labour supporters on here seem to support Starmer's approach to shifting the party rightwards to appeal or at least not to frighten potential Tory voters but dislike it being pointed out to them.
On the specific question of the Minimum Income Requirement for spousal visas, Kendall said that Labour supports increasing it ( IIRC Labour policy a few years ago was to abolish the MIR entirely), did not say that the proposed minimum of £38,600 was too high or instead indicate on what basis Labour would increase it ( the current level of £18600 was set at a level to prevent a spouse becoming " a burden" on the taxpayer).
So Labour is clearly proposing to make it more difficult for British citizens on lower incomes to marry whom they want and to place existing marriages in jeopardy at the point of visa renewal. I haven't seen any Labour supporters on here demur from that so I take it that they support that approach and the difference from Tory policy may be the level at which the MIR is set or possibly Labour would agree to the Tory proposal.
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Post by bardin1 on Dec 11, 2023 13:52:41 GMT
Never mind policies, just in terms of decency, of respect for the rule of law, of probity and respecting due process and lack of corruption the Labour administration will be a world away from what we've had with the tories. They have been dragging the state of our governance onto a par of that with devoloping nations. That's an insult to most developing nations! |
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Post by bardin1 on Dec 11, 2023 14:00:47 GMT
@sda It's interesting that almost any expression of doubt or criticism of Labour is interpteted by Labour loyalists as trying to influence somebody. Is anybody on this site trying to exert influence? I really doubt it and, if they are, they should probably do something less futile. Observations on Labour's strategy and policies so far as they can be reliably identified are more prominent because it is likely that it will form the next UK Government and they are more significant as we are now effectively in the long election campaign. It is also odd that most Labour supporters on here seem to support Starmer's approach to shifting the party rightwards to appeal or at least not to frighten potential Tory voters but dislike it being pointed out to them. On the specific question of the Minimum Income Requirement for spousal visas, Kendall said that Labour supports increasing it ( IIRC Labour policy a few years ago was to abolish the MIR entirely), did not say that the proposed minimum of £38,600 was too high or instead indicate on what basis Labour would increase it ( the current level of £18600 was set at a level to prevent a spouse becoming " a burden" on the taxpayer). So Labour is clearly proposing to make it more difficult for British citizens on lower incomes to marry whom they want and to place existing marriages in jeopardy at the point of visa renewal. I haven't seen any Labour supporters on here demur from that so I take it that they support that approach and the difference from Tory policy may be the level at which the MIR is set or possibly Labour would agree to the Tory proposal. Around 2006 I accompanied a young Iraqi who was working for my wife's IT company to the office of his local MP in Tooting to ask the MP (one Sadiq Khan) for help in arguing against the rejection of his citizenship application on the grounds that his salary didn't meet the minimum Income requirement (£26k) - he was on slightly less which was all my wife's company could afford and more than she was paying herself) . His office were very helpful in trying to argue the case (which he won in the end). Odd to think that Labour is now arguing for putting it up for spouses. It was a good day for our friend Mohammed, but a bad day for me as I got a hefty parking fine for not noticing a different restricition on the space I was parking on (the sign was obscured by a van, on the oother side of the road) which Ii lost on appeal despite my photographic evidence. |
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