neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 3, 2023 13:29:08 GMT
steveI would love for us to rejoin, just can't see it happening in the next 5 years. I am surprised the Libdems don't make it their USP, they seem as reluctant as Labour to even talk about it. The link below discusses it If the main UK wide parties aren't even talking about it, let alone putting it in their manifestos, I really can't see it happening in the next Parliament www.politico.eu/article/liberal-democrat-conference-ed-davey-speech-anti-brexit-lib-dems-dont-mention-the-eu/'Britain’s anti-Brexit Lib Dems are back … But don’t mention the EU The centrist bloc could be kingmakers — and they won’t be banging on about Brexit'
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 3, 2023 13:30:41 GMT
Glenys Kinnock has died, RIP
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 3, 2023 13:48:57 GMT
In wrong moron for the job news the chair of cop28UAE’s Sultan Al Jaber says phase-out of coal, oil and gas would take world ‘back into caves’ The president of Cop28, Sultan Al Jaber, has claimed there is “no science” indicating that a phase-out of fossil fuels is needed to restrict global heating to 1.5C This bullshit anti science position comes from a man who is also head of UAE's state oil company, Adnoc It's akin to tobacco industry in the 1970's denying that cigarettes were harmful. Given that climate change is likely to render his country uninhabitable before many others he'll be looking for a new home, underground or otherwise. Still a vast fortune insulates you from a vacuum where your brain should be. www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/03/back-into-caves-cop28-president-dismisses-phase-out-of-fossil-fuels
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 3, 2023 13:56:35 GMT
Glenys Kinnock has died, RIP A very formidable woman and enormously supportive of, and ever loyal to her husband Neil I think it's highly probable that she sacrificed a successful political career of her own when Neil became leader of the opposition, although she did serve in Brown's government from the Lords. Looking from afar at her life with Neil and their long and happy marriage, I always got the impression it was one of life's great love stories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 13:59:57 GMT
Let the footy commence!
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Post by graham on Dec 3, 2023 14:07:36 GMT
In relation to Starmer and Thatcher, I listened to him this morning, he said he didn't like what Thatcher did, but he did like the fact she had an agenda and drove meaningful change through. He also said Attlee and Blair also drove through change He was clearly making links to politicians who knew what they wanted and how to get it done So I don't think he can be justly criticised for his comments about Thatcher I do think a more valid criticism is that at the moment he doesn't have a clear agenda. He has got some worthwhile policies, but as yet not an over reaching political philosophy Still probably 10 months to the election though and he's nothing if not pragmatic I think in general terms, rather like when someone dies who you don't like, then it's fair enough to talk in generalisations like getting things done, having a vision etc. The issue I have is this line: "Keir Starmer has praised Margaret Thatcher for effecting “meaningful change” in Britain in an article directly appealing to Conservative voters to switch to Labour. Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, the Labour leader said Thatcher had “set loose our natural entrepreneurialism” during her time as prime minister." Had this been said by anyone other than Starmer I think all the LOC on here would be all over that quote. She set loose a bunch of spivs out for a quick buck and sold the family silver. That's fundamental to why Thatcherism failed over the medium to long term. No spare council houses to offer up to needy people, gas and electric bills through the roof and not controlled as in partly nationalised France, private water a disgrace, a generation growing up semi unemployable because there were no jobs available when she did nothing to replace the jobs her policies lost with the "entrepreneurs" leaping on the chance to pay low wages/terms and conditions, care in the community not fit for purpose, taxes lowered fraying the safety net to breaking point and not giving the government the money to make effective investment in industry. I was not one of the many who bought the 'Ding Dong the Witch is dead' record when Thatcher died. I do,however, recall responding to someone at work who had expressed the view that her death was 'a sad day' with 'nothing like as sad as the day she was born.'
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 3, 2023 14:13:10 GMT
Glenys Kinnock has died, RIP A very formidable woman and enormously supportive of, and ever loyal to her husband Neil I think it's highly probable that she sacrificed a successful political career of her own when Neil became leader of the opposition, although she did serve in Brown's government from the Lords. Looking from afar at her life with Neil and their long and happy marriage, I always got the impression it was one of life's great love stories. Actually she was an MEP from 1994 to 2009, so she did have a political career, in addition to her ministerial office under Brown.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 3, 2023 14:16:37 GMT
I wasn't aware it ever stopped
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 3, 2023 14:26:35 GMT
Nice quick turnaround in the scoreline at Dean Court Crofto.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 3, 2023 14:27:56 GMT
A very formidable woman and enormously supportive of, and ever loyal to her husband Neil I think it's highly probable that she sacrificed a successful political career of her own when Neil became leader of the opposition, although she did serve in Brown's government from the Lords. Looking from afar at her life with Neil and their long and happy marriage, I always got the impression it was one of life's great love stories. Actually she was an MEP from 1994 to 2009, so she did have a political career, in addition to her ministerial office under Brown. True, and I was aware of that. Maybe I should have said in British politics.
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Post by EmCat on Dec 3, 2023 14:29:04 GMT
alec Let's imagine a post election scenario Labour wins with a huge majority with the lib dems in third place behind a Tory party reduced to less than 150 mps None of these are far fetched they're entirely consistent with polling. ... Now , it gets a bit more speculative... I like the intent of your speculation, though fear that the behind the scenes machinations, that tend not to be well known outside the Westminster/party bubble, may make a comeback from Wallace less likely. Having survived all the reshuffles (because compared to many other ministers, he was generally reckoned to be competent, and also not particularly part of any of the factions), then Wallace announced that he would stand down as minister "at the next reshuffle". At the time he said it, a reasonable expectation was that the next reshuffle would be a few months away. And then Sunak announced a mini-reshuffle less than a week after Wallace's announcement. The party membership would appear to have been taken over by the UKIP leaning cohort, which would also tend to reduce the chance of a moderate such as Wallace not only remaining in the party, but also attracting enough support to become leader. Of course, none of that stops Starmer appearing to be out of step with the Labour Party membership
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 3, 2023 14:29:59 GMT
Nice quick turnaround in the scoreline at Dean Court Crofto. Bloody VAR. 🥴😫
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 14:36:14 GMT
Nice quick turnaround in the scoreline at Dean Court Crofto. Bloody VAR. 🥴😫 That one was quite a slow turnaround.
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Post by EmCat on Dec 3, 2023 15:27:47 GMT
Starmer is talking to the electorate rather than Labour members there, my caveat being that he doesn't need Telegraph readers' votes to be able to win. True, but if he can persuade Telegraph readers to sit on their hands and not vote Tory, then they may even be relegated to third place. Having Lib Dem as official opposition may make other policy plans easier to pass.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 3, 2023 16:07:09 GMT
And she's met the big guy.
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 3, 2023 16:14:17 GMT
Football. Bloody hell. Three cracking Premier League games and a very decent FA Cup tie on the TV. Last minute equaliser from my boys topped it off. Ollie did the business again. Shame about the West Ham v Palace game, though.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 3, 2023 16:30:29 GMT
Ive long being saying the obvious next step for con is to try to lead the rejoin campaign if labour doesnt. It has exactly the same plus as when they led the leave campaign, that it would draw away labour voters. Except of course they didn't lead the Leave campaign. Cameron was the PM and a Remainer, though he let backbenchers campaign for Leave. You keep on making the same error over and over again. No, I am talking about the substance of the issue. You that technically the party took a neutral stance. Con first adopted euroscepticism to garner votes prior to 2010, and then offerd a referendum prior to 2015. You would not do either unless you had a goal of brexit. Its interesting whether Cameron would summarily have lost his position had he refused to sanction the referendum. He was happy to present the party as eurosceptic.
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Post by laszlo4new on Dec 3, 2023 17:09:03 GMT
In relation to Starmer and Thatcher, I listened to him this morning, he said he didn't like what Thatcher did, but he did like the fact she had an agenda and drove meaningful change through. He also said Attlee and Blair also drove through change He was clearly making links to politicians who knew what they wanted and how to get it done So I don't think he can be justly criticised for his comments about Thatcher I do think a more valid criticism is that at the moment he doesn't have a clear agenda. He has got some worthwhile policies, but as yet not an over reaching political philosophy Still probably 10 months to the election though and he's nothing if not pragmatic I talked to a number of people (LP Liverpool) today - different factions. They didn't read the Torygraph column, but read the reporting. Every single one of them said that they would not vote for Labour (they are party members). And as I had the time today (first time for months) I had some video conferencing with some organisations in the Midlands and Yorkshire, and they are planning to launch a campaign against Starmer's using 1984-85 as a counterargument for praising Thatcher's "liberation of entrepreneurship". Surely he read Smith's notion of 'nation of shopkeepers' and knows the real meaning of it.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 3, 2023 17:31:07 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 3, 2023 17:45:19 GMT
The continuing problems of finding people willing to foster children. We've informally fostered five children for friends, one of the children lived with us for several years and we regard him as one of our own children and he considers us his second parents and our other two children as his siblings. However we never proceeded to undertake formal fostering duties as despite having worked in emergency and care services for decades between us the insistence on formally qualifying to undertake tasks that we'd already done for years just didn't seem worth the hassle. Fostering isn't a job it's really a social service, you don't see any tangible reward for it there are other very real rewards from providing a safe and caring home but it's not going to make you rich, the fostering allowances now barely cover the associated costs and of course require sufficient space to undertake the tasks irrespective of placements. Over 1000 foster families were lost last year as the costs became prohibitive. www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/03/thousands-new-foster-carers-urgently-needed-england-experts
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Post by davem on Dec 3, 2023 17:52:24 GMT
Some cracking ties in the FA Cup 3rd round. Sunderland against Newcastle for one.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 3, 2023 17:57:43 GMT
The unsquarable circle of immigration cuts and a functioning health care sector. Over the last year 35,000 nurses left the nhs up 25% on the previous year a decade of insufficient training places and charges to students has diminished the recruit base of UK students. The NHS has always relied on foreign staff that's not going to change just because brexitanians don't like foreigners. Currently half of all new nurses recruited to the NHS this year are not from the U.K. Labour's plan to somehow magic up internal candidates is equally devoid of connection with reality. youtu.be/VFzOVpPurrA?si=WUcW5Hht7E2KSNmT
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 3, 2023 18:01:42 GMT
World beating the only government since the second world war to make people poorer than when they came into office.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 3, 2023 18:21:19 GMT
This is what I heard Starmer say this morning
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Post by JohnC on Dec 3, 2023 18:25:16 GMT
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 3, 2023 18:43:39 GMT
Thanks for that, very useful This is what Moorhouse referred to Interesting as Moorhouse points out, Starmer didn't even say Thatcher succeeded in 'setting lose our natural entrepreneurship' just that she sought to As Moorhouse points out people read a newspaper headline and take it as gospel without checking what he actually said, especially so if it paints a person they don't like in an uncomplimentary light. That is true for many people on all sides of politics
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 3, 2023 19:18:54 GMT
Thanks for that, very useful This is what Moorhouse referred to Interesting as Moorhouse points out, Starmer didn't even say Thatcher succeeded in 'setting lose our natural entrepreneurship' just that she sought to As Moorhouse points out people read a newspaper headline and take it as gospel without checking what he actually said, especially so if it paints a person they don't like in an uncomplimentary light. That is true for many people on all sides of politics So, no antichrist worship from Starmer then. Ah well, maybe let's leave that for another day. Mass membership resignations and "I'm not voting Labour pledges" too. There will be a time and place for all that soon enough. Stats for Lefties on the case, no doubt. Starmer may have "blood on his hands" some believe. He's having a terrible war in the Middle East and Reeves is pledging wealth tax cuts to free up entrepreneurship while Liz Kendall laughs in the faces of benefit claimants. I might as well vote Tory. What's the bloody difference?
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Post by Rafwan on Dec 3, 2023 20:14:27 GMT
Working this one to death aren’t we, batty?
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Post by shevii on Dec 3, 2023 20:56:31 GMT
Interesting as Moorhouse points out, Starmer didn't even say Thatcher succeeded in 'setting lose our natural entrepreneurship' just that she sought to As Moorhouse points out people read a newspaper headline and take it as gospel without checking what he actually said, especially so if it paints a person they don't like in an uncomplimentary light. That is true for many people on all sides of politics Can't see how the small print changes Starmer's intent- if the Guardian couldn't spot the difference I think they have written the article exactly how it was meant to be reported.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 3, 2023 22:06:21 GMT
The continuing problems of finding people willing to foster children. We've informally fostered five children for friends, one of the children lived with us for several years and we regard him as one of our own children and he considers us his second parents and our other two children as his siblings. However we never proceeded to undertake formal fostering duties as despite having worked in emergency and care services for decades between us the insistence on formally qualifying to undertake tasks that we'd already done for years just didn't seem worth the hassle. Fostering isn't a job it's really a social service, you don't see any tangible reward for it there are other very real rewards from providing a safe and caring home but it's not going to make you rich, the fostering allowances now barely cover the associated costs and of course require sufficient space to undertake the tasks irrespective of placements. Over 1000 foster families were lost last year as the costs became prohibitive. And thats surprising because? The story sounds the same as every other government service presided over by the conservative government for the last 13 years. They prefer we spend all our money on mortgages bled into the financial sector, rather than do stuff like creating homes for people who need them. As to the paperwork, well I guess its inevitable in the march to eradicate paedophilia and simple physical abuse. Although it does feel like this has swung rather too far in the opposite direction following the discovery of various historical abuses, not least in the child protection and fostering services.
Although of course, you do have to ask whether in those more informal days there was also plenty of good happening.
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