steve
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2023 11:59:29 GMT
I have detected a trend among brexitanians to be obsessed with the minutiae of any and all issues in the European union however esoteric to find examples of failings.
You have to ask why?
Is it just a profound interest in the internal affairs of our neighbours?
Or is it just perhaps a deflection from the fact that they have nothing positive to say about their own decision to leave?
I fail to see how it in any way justifies their irrational choice after all they make no attempt to show why these arrangements are superior in a non European union Brexitania is it that they think it is somehow a counter from the obvious advantages accrued by not leaving.
Look the European union isn't perfect therefore we were right to leave so we can be worse or something of the sort , it's truly bizarre.
Perhaps a brexitanian could explain the justification.
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Post by Mark on Aug 24, 2023 12:56:23 GMT
Re-brexit.
IMO, as a remainer, whatever form brexit took, we would be worse off, but, the type of brexit we went for, doubly so.
The latter is down to the tories as much as brexit itself.
Cameron - A remainer - and one so arrogant that he didn't think for a second that brexit could actually win - and so did ZERO planning and ZERO preparation for that eventuality.
May - Went for a hard brexit (with 'no deal' very much on the table, to appease those on the right of the tory party.
Johnson - With the 'oven ready deal' which was no such thing, waving a piece of paper saying 'we've done it!' before the election, touting a deal the he patently didn't understand - if he even read it at all.
IMO, after a referendum that Brexit won closely (52-48), the course of action closest to the result, would be to leave the institution of the EU, but, remain in the single maret and customs union.
Very much NOT what I would have wanted personally, being a remainer / rejoiner....and one where no side is truly happy, but, surely one that matched the result more closely than any other.
As to rejoining, doing so without a referendum would be political suicide. Remainers may now be in a maority, but, there is a large minority who would take their votes elsewhere on such an emotive issue.
I do think, however, that demographic changes coming down the line will make much closer integration and more than likely actually rejoining inevitable in the future, but, we are not quite there yet.
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Post by James E on Aug 24, 2023 13:19:05 GMT
@mark Re those 'demographic changes'. Interesting to divide the recent YouGov (8 Aug) figures on 'Rejoin/stay out' by age (excl DK and WNV, which are similar across all ages, in any case). Age 18-49 79% Rejoin, 21% Stay Out Age 50-64 56% Rejoin, 44% Stay Out Age 65+ 36% Rejoin, 64% Stay Out docs.cdn.yougov.com/7myo59zisk/Internal_Brexit_230809_W.pdf |
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Post by mercian on Aug 24, 2023 13:30:32 GMT
Re-brexit. IMO, as a remainer, whatever form brexit took, we would be worse off, but, the type of brexit we went for, doubly so. The latter is down to the tories as much as brexit itself. Cameron - A remainer - and one so arrogant that he didn't think for a second that brexit could actually win - and so did ZERO planning and ZERO preparation for that eventuality. May - Went for a hard brexit (with 'no deal' very much on the table, to appease those on the right of the tory party. Johnson - With the 'oven ready deal' which was no such thing, waving a piece of paper saying 'we've done it!' before the election, touting a deal the he patently didn't understand - if he even read it at all. IMO, after a referendum that Brexit won closely (52-48), the course of action closest to the result, would be to leave the institution of the EU, but, remain in the single maret and customs union. Very much NOT what I would have wanted personally, being a remainer / rejoiner....and one where no side is truly happy, but, surely one that matched the result more closely than any other. As to rejoining, doing so without a referendum would be political suicide. Remainers may now be in a maority, but, there is a large minority who would take their votes elsewhere on such an emotive issue. I do think, however, that demographic changes coming down the line will make much closer integration and more than likely actually rejoining inevitable in the future, but, we are not quite there yet. A couple of problems with this: 1) The EU didn't want us in the single market and customs union 2) Rejoining is not inevitable, even if there is overwhelming support for it in the UK. The EU will have a say in it and I think there will be understandable suspicions on their side. Will they want risk going through Brexit again at some point further in the future? |
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Post by leftieliberal on Aug 24, 2023 14:10:47 GMT
Labour in a healthy place financially: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66605159The Labour Party significantly outspent the Conservatives last year, financial accounts released by the Electoral Commission show.
Labour's spending totalled £44.45m, with the party's income up 3.5% on 2021, despite lower membership numbers.
Meanwhile, the Conservatives' spending was £33.06m, with income down 3.3%, and money from donors to the party falling by £2.4m.
The Liberal Democrats spent £6.7m, while SNP expenditure totalled £5.05m.Labour recorded a £2.7m surplus, raising £47.2m, even as it lost nearly 25,000 more members, the Commission's figures show. In 2021, Sir Keir Starmer's party recorded a £5.2m deficit.
A report from party general secretary David Evans said "difficult decisions" on reducing costs had contributed to returning Labour to surplus, while membership income "exceeded targets" thanks to new members and "an improved rate of retention".
Staff costs fell by around £6m as a number of people were made redundant.
By the end of 2022, Labour had 407,445 members, down from 432,213 in 2021, and nearly 125,000 down on its recent peak in 2019 when it was led by Jeremy Corbyn.
The Conservatives lost £2.3m in 2022 during what the party's annual accounts described as a "turbulent year". Boris Johnson resigned as prime minister in July, to be succeeded by Liz Truss, who herself stepped down in October.
The party raised £30.7m in income, but saw money from donors falling compared with 2021. A report from the party treasurer blamed this partly on "donor pledges moving into 2023".
Also see this more detailed article on the SNP's finances: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66605391 |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2023 14:21:21 GMT
leftieliberal Not being partisan or anything perish the thought but the only one of the largest four parties at Westminster to see an actual increase in membership rather than a significant fall is the liberal democrats.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2023 14:28:38 GMT
lululemonmustdobetter Regarding the absence of interest in human generated climate change at the muppet gathering. Christie comes as close as any of them to acknowledging the threat but when it comes to their vote base climate change unbelievably doesn't feature in their top 15 priorities with less than 4% thinking it's a priority. Even if the contestants in this clown show were interested in the biggest existential threat to humanity they wouldn't gain a single vote by saying so. Attachment Deleted
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2023 14:40:14 GMT
Wimmin have had lot to do with it as well. For centuries they've been in the kitchen washing dishes, washing clothes, cooking and so on - it’s not all “man-made”  Plus driving in second gear all the time. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2023 14:55:49 GMT
Oh, and not to mention the impact of the cosmetics and fashion industries, and all that use of hair spray and + driers don't forget. What wicked creatures we are! Plus driving in second gear all the time. I wear the same gear whether i'm driving or not ! |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2023 15:05:11 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 24, 2023 15:10:47 GMT
UK ministers are set to confirm a fifth delay to the implementation of post-Brexit border controls on food and fresh products coming from the EU, pushing the launch of the new regime into next year. Presumably that will be for the next government to decide on. Implement them and see trade decline or declare them unworkable and permanently scrap them, thereby upsetting leave supporters. The government dare not admit any part of brexit is a failure before an election. They need labour to do it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2023 15:16:55 GMT
I think it was ole mercian, in the monologue that got him sacked from our late-night programme “Midnight Rambler”, who said (despite all reported evidence to the contrary) that he had not seen any changes in the UK since Brexit. That does of course beg the question: WTF DID YOU VOTE FOR IT THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? There were no easy to read signs in big letters on big buses saying: “VOTE LEAVE - YOU WON’T NOTICE A THING.” |
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Post by mercian on Aug 24, 2023 15:27:32 GMT
No discernible difference in everyday life, but we will no longer have rules and regulations imposed on us by Brussels. If our own government does something we don't like we can kick them out. If the EU did, we couldn't. I've put it as simply as I can for your benefit.
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Post by jen on Aug 24, 2023 15:29:05 GMT
Re-brexit. IMO, as a remainer, whatever form brexit took, we would be worse off, but, the type of brexit we went for, doubly so. The latter is down to the tories as much as brexit itself. Cameron - A remainer - and one so arrogant that he didn't think for a second that brexit could actually win - and so did ZERO planning and ZERO preparation for that eventuality. May - Went for a hard brexit (with 'no deal' very much on the table, to appease those on the right of the tory party. Johnson - With the 'oven ready deal' which was no such thing, waving a piece of paper saying 'we've done it!' before the election, touting a deal the he patently didn't understand - if he even read it at all. IMO, after a referendum that Brexit won closely (52-48), the course of action closest to the result, would be to leave the institution of the EU, but, remain in the single maret and customs union. Very much NOT what I would have wanted personally, being a remainer / rejoiner....and one where no side is truly happy, but, surely one that matched the result more closely than any other. As to rejoining, doing so without a referendum would be political suicide. Remainers may now be in a maority, but, there is a large minority who would take their votes elsewhere on such an emotive issue. I do think, however, that demographic changes coming down the line will make much closer integration and more than likely actually rejoining inevitable in the future, but, we are not quite there yet. A couple of problems with this: 1) The EU didn't want us in the single market and customs union 2) Rejoining is not inevitable, even if there is overwhelming support for it in the UK. The EU will have a say in it and I think there will be understandable suspicions on their side. Will they want risk going through Brexit again at some point further in the future? Some answers for you: 1) You are lying 2) You are wrong. The EU will simply wait for the demographic changes. They have already started. It's coming faster than you can imagine. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 24, 2023 15:30:48 GMT
Re-brexit. IMO, as a remainer, whatever form brexit took, we would be worse off, but, the type of brexit we went for, doubly so. The latter is down to the tories as much as brexit itself. Cameron - A remainer - and one so arrogant that he didn't think for a second that brexit could actually win - and so did ZERO planning and ZERO preparation for that eventuality. I thin thats a bit unfair on Cameron. May spent quite some time trying to find a good brexit and still failed. Its like the scene in Game of Thrones where the delightfull teenager king Joffrey asks the minstrel whether he would prefer as punishment to lose his fingers or his tongue. That summarises the Brexit options. Brexit was an enormous success in the terms under which con adopted it as policy. It gave them 15 years in government. The rest desnt matter at all. In essence labour agrees, taking power matters more than anything else. Maybe if the UK had consensus government, but it doesnt. Con were only interested in people voting for them, essentailly leave supporters, And its quite obvious such a compromises did not meet the aspirations for brexit. Not that anything could because it was always based upon fantasy. Going forwards there are two options for con. One is to repudiate Brexit as a failure and adopt some sort of rejoin, whether its partial or gradual or full. The other is to continue to double down supporting Brexit, and claim the ongoing brexit fiasco is the fault of labour who are about to take over. So in 5 years they can argue vote for them to do brexit properly. Not at all. Just put it in the manifesto and the election campaign becomes the referendum. (they wont though, not at the forthcoming election anyway) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2023 15:31:48 GMT
No discernible difference in everyday life, but we will no longer have rules and regulations imposed on us by Brussels. If our own government does something we don't like we can kick them out. If the EU did, we couldn't. I've put it as simply as I can for your benefit. It’s definitely “simple” |
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Post by jen on Aug 24, 2023 15:36:38 GMT
No discernible difference in everyday life, but we will no longer have rules and regulations imposed on us by Brussels. If our own government does something we don't like we can kick them out. If the EU did, we couldn't. I've put it as simply as I can for your benefit. Wrong again. I concede that in your bubble, you might not notice anything. But for most economically productive members of society the effects are massive. Furthermore, in the past, we had a say in the creation of EU rules and regulations, indeed we had a veto. Now we are de facto forced to accept them. I've put it as simply as I can for your benefit. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 24, 2023 15:46:23 GMT
It's good to know that at least we've taken back control of our borders .....
Our democratically elected HMG did CHOOSE to delay some stuff due to the UNFORESEEN issue of Covid and Ukraine War on inflation. I'm disappointed we have delayed some minor, final aspects as supply chains should have adjusted by now anyway. IIRC likes of M&S had the Percy Pigs issue (not to be confused with Boris and Peppa Pig). IIRC the Groan used to find someone, somewhere who was inconvenienced by Brexit (eg the cheese chap) but another delay on some minor final checks is not that big a deal IMO. Events dear lass, events...  If you want to try and bring out the gammon in Brexiteers then maybe mention not taking back control of our borders WRT to immigration rather than goods. Those 'delays' are |
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Post by jen on Aug 24, 2023 15:53:27 GMT
It's good to know that at least we've taken back control of our borders .....
Our democratically elected HMG did CHOOSE to delay some stuff due to the UNFORESEEN issue of Covid and Ukraine War on inflation. I'm disappointed we have delayed some minor, final aspects as supply chains should have adjusted by now anyway. IIRC likes of M&S had the Percy Pigs issue (not to be confused with Boris and Peppa Pig). IIRC the Groan used to find someone, somewhere who was inconvenienced by Brexit (eg the cheese chap) but another delay on some minor final checks is not that big a deal IMO. Events dear lass, events... If you want to try and bring out the gammon in Brexiteers then maybe mention not taking back control of our borders WRT to immigration rather than goods. Those 'delays' are Well, she has certainly already brought out the gammon in YOU. |
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Post by alec on Aug 24, 2023 15:53:32 GMT
mercian - "No discernible difference in everyday life..." jen - "Wrong again." That's the Brexit somersault in a nutshell. Before we left, people like Mercian were saying it would be a revolution, and people like Jen were saying we couldn't change life much because we would still be tied to the EU. While people like Jen are now pointing to practical impacts, they may well still feel that the UK remains fixed in Europe's orbit, but the Mercian's of this world are reduced to claiming no change, and worse, that no change is a good outcome. More backflips than a Romanian gymnast. But no ribbons, and the big ball is punctured. Nuls points.
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 24, 2023 15:55:38 GMT
Re-brexit. IMO, as a remainer, whatever form brexit took, we would be worse off, but, the type of brexit we went for, doubly so. The latter is down to the tories as much as brexit itself. Cameron - A remainer - and one so arrogant that he didn't think for a second that brexit could actually win - and so did ZERO planning and ZERO preparation for that eventuality. May - Went for a hard brexit (with 'no deal' very much on the table, to appease those on the right of the tory party. Johnson - With the 'oven ready deal' which was no such thing, waving a piece of paper saying 'we've done it!' before the election, touting a deal the he patently didn't understand - if he even read it at all.IMO, after a referendum that Brexit won closely (52-48), the course of action closest to the result, would be to leave the institution of the EU, but, remain in the single maret and customs union. Very much NOT what I would have wanted personally, being a remainer / rejoiner....and one where no side is truly happy, but, surely one that matched the result more closely than any other. As to rejoining, doing so without a referendum would be political suicide. Remainers may now be in a maority, but, there is a large minority who would take their votes elsewhere on such an emotive issue. I do think, however, that demographic changes coming down the line will make much closer integration and more than likely actually rejoining inevitable in the future, but, we are not quite there yet. What we do know for a fact is that Starmer agreed to whip LAB MPs to vote for Boris's "Over Ready Deal" before he'd even read* it. We can go back over what MPs/leaders said about holding a 'once in a generation' vote and honouring the result again if anyone thinks that is worthwhile. Then there was the 'Final Say' vote (GE'19) that was the choice of Remain MPs given they didn't want to chuck Boris out and put Corbyn in #10 with the sole mandate of holding a (rigged) EURef2. It doesn't matter how many times we go through this the FACTS won't change. As always then for those that so much about Rejoining then do something about it. We live in a democracy. I hope Rejoiners are at least aware that the longer we stay out the harder it will be to rejoin (for both domestic and EU related reasons). Tick tock as they used to say. * In fairness to Starmer then we knew most of the changes that Boris had made to May's BRINO deal (eg changing the NI backstop to a 'frontstop'). There is an issue specific thread for those that want to discuss the finer details OR look at the probable terms of future UK trade deals (eg India). Further out?? Maybe India join CPTPP? Maybe US as well?? TBC... Those are FREE trade deals, likely with 'enhanced visa' access but no FoM. Quite different IMO and hardly worth a referendum to decide whether we join CPTPP, do a trade deal with India, etc (noting that we had no control over what deals EU did when we were inside EU) |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 24, 2023 15:59:03 GMT
No discernible difference in everyday life, but we will no longer have rules and regulations imposed on us by Brussels. If our own government does something we don't like we can kick them out. If the EU did, we couldn't. I've put it as simply as I can for your benefit. Wrong again. I concede that in your bubble, you might not notice anything. But for most economically productive members of society the effects are massive. Furthermore, in the past, we had a say in the creation of EU rules and regulations, indeed we had a veto. Now we are de facto forced to accept them. I've put it as simply as I can for your benefit. Hilarious. I did 'forget' how funny some of the people on UKPR2 could be.  Just an idea but if you want to Rejoin.EU then perhaps take that up with LAB/LDEM HQ or get behind Gina Miller's party. The n=3 people on UKPR2 who Vote(d).Leave have 'no regrets' and support democracy. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 24, 2023 16:10:53 GMT
I see the article, which is a summary of a summary report, says that there is not clear evidence for the effectiveness of individual physical measures, but they do see effectiveness when all are used together. However this is most when incidence of covid was anyway low, such as when an outbreak was just beginning. They list physical measures to include lockdown, test and trace, ventilation, awareness campaigns, social distancing, masks. They note they didnt consider many if any controlled trials, because there werent any (and surely no new treatment would normally be approved without any). Specifically on face masks they says, "The weight of evidence from all studies suggests that wearing masks, particularly higher quality masks (respirators), supported by mask mandates, generally reduced the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 infection. Studies consistently, though not universally, reported that mask wearing and mask mandates were an effective approach to reduce infection. There is also evidence, mainly from studies in healthcare settings, that higher-quality ‘respirator’ masks (such as N95 masks) were more effective than surgical-type masks. The evidence suggested that masks with greater barrier function were more effective than those with lower barrier function; and mask wearing in the context of a mandate to wear masks was more effective than mask wearing in the context of voluntary behaviour." I contrast your headline 'face masks unequivocally cut spread' with their 'masks...generally reduced the transmission of covid'. Indeed, I dont disagree with that, I'd suggest its obvious to expect any form of barrier to reduce transmission. The question is whether this is meaningful in the context of a general epidemic. Whether in fact while all the measures seem likely to have worked in their objective of slowing spread, whether in the end spreading the epidemic over a longer period actually did any good. For the last two years we have enjoyed year round constant covid, one might see that as the desired outcome of such a program. But is that really better? You for one seem to keep saying it isnt. By the way, I came across this: www.medscape.com/viewarticle/artificial-sweeteners-increase-cardiovascular-risk-2023a1000jjg?ecd=wnl_tp10_daily_230822_MSCPEDIT_etid5776484&uac=247785SG&impID=5776484Its an interesting article claiming artificial sweetners may cause worse health than consuming sugar. They list consequences of increased artificial sweetner consumption that include obsesity, heart disease and diabetes. All of which I think you have been attributing to covid. But surely this period coincides with the introduction of sugar taxes on drinks, which has led to widespread reformulation using artificial sweetners instead of sugar, with these unfortuante ill effects on health? Its all reminiscent of the attack on butter in the 70s claiming margarine was better. Whereas we now believe that butter is safer than margarine. (although modern margarines have been reformulated to avoid some of the more dangerous, I think it was trans fats, they originally included. But cholesterol from butter is now regarded as safe to eat again). Smoking tobacco of course used to be widely regarded as good for your health, while magic mushrooms and cannabis are slowly being reintroduced as medically useful drugs after being demonised for 50 years. |
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Post by jen on Aug 24, 2023 16:17:01 GMT
Wrong again. I concede that in your bubble, you might not notice anything. But for most economically productive members of society the effects are massive. Furthermore, in the past, we had a say in the creation of EU rules and regulations, indeed we had a veto. Now we are de facto forced to accept them. I've put it as simply as I can for your benefit. Hilarious. I did 'forget' how funny some of the people on UKPR2 could be. Just an idea but if you want to Rejoin.EU then perhaps take that up with LAB/LDEM HQ or get behind Gina Miller's party. The n=3 people on UKPR2 who Vote(d).Leave have 'no regrets' and support democracy. For the hard of thinking... I have explained many times why the referendum was undemocratic. I note that you have never brought a counter-argument. As for your brilliant idea, thanks, but I am already politically active and have been for many years. I also vote for political parties that support rejoin. But I have an idea for you: why not post a positive argument in favour of why anybody should vote for your beloved Conservative Party, rather than droning on with blah blah blah Starmer blah blah flip-flop blah and a link to an obvious troll Twitter account? Seriously... is that the best you got? Hahahahahaha! |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 24, 2023 16:20:05 GMT
Unlike Brexit then Immigration is an 'Important issues' for a lot of people (see polling) so I'll post 'new' immigration polling on the main thread. Detailed discussion of specific aspects is on the Issue Specific thread. A notable partisan split and the polling relevance is that unless Rishi gets that issue sorted before GE'24 then they have no chance. Quite a few CON'19 might vote RUK or, given LAB reckon they have a 'better' plan to Stop the Boats, maybe give a LAB in power to see if LAB can fix it (and if/when LAB doesn't then... well, TBC)
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2023 16:23:37 GMT
Man bruised big toe on a loose paving stone in Sant Pol de Mar.
Thank God we got our from the steely grip of the European union super state or this could have happened in Skegness.😵
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 24, 2023 16:33:28 GMT
Hilarious. I did 'forget' how funny some of the people on UKPR2 could be. Just an idea but if you want to Rejoin.EU then perhaps take that up with LAB/LDEM HQ or get behind Gina Miller's party. The n=3 people on UKPR2 who Vote(d).Leave have 'no regrets' and support democracy.For the hard of thinking... I have explained many times why the referendum was undemocratic. I note that you have never brought a counter-argument. As for your brilliant idea, thanks, but I am already politically active and have been for many years. I also vote for political parties that support rejoin. But I have an idea for you: why not post a positive argument in favour of why anybody should vote for your beloved Conservative Party, rather than droning on with blah blah blah Starmer blah blah flip-flop blah and a link to an obvious troll Twitter account? Seriously... is that the best you got? Hahahahahaha! Well I admit to having blocked you in the past but you seem 'interesting' so we can do a few more rounds of 'ping pong' if you're game. How did LDEM do in the 'Final Say' vote of GE'19 with their "Revoke" (ie no need for a ref) policy? Didn't seem that popular IIRC? Might I ask who you vote for? I assume you vote Green (or SNP if you live in Scotland) but perhaps you could get your hard of thinking fellow Rejoiners to vote for a Rejoin party rather than waste the time of the small number of people on UKPR2 who voted Leave* and have no regrets. If you want to then you can explain how you hope to Rejoin.EU without another referendum - bearing in mind that if you set that precedent then any future HMG can Leave.EU again without holding a referendum. I'm not keen on that kind of ongoing uncertainty and 'hokey cokey' but if you want to go down that route then you still have to win a GE and be able to win a vote to Rejoin.EU in HoC (and hope the process is pretty quick and they say 'yes'). Bon chance PS Could you also state exactly what the terms of 'Rejoin.EU' would be (ie the annual cost, any vetoes, €?, etc) and give your view of what you think the EU will be in say 2035 (ie new entrants, annual cost, further loss of sovereignty, etc). I' ve stated in the past that if EU goes back to just being a 'FREE trade deal' then I wouldn't be opposed and that wouldn't need a ref. However, given our current deal is pretty good then I should state that seems pretty pointless and I wouldn't support it if it meant we lost our ability to make our own trade deals. * Campaigned in my case. Can't speak for the other 2. I voted CON in GE'15 to hold a democratic vote (which was supported by all main parties); Leave in EURef'16; CON in GE'17 (although in fairness to Corbyn he had said Brexit was settled); then even joined CON as a member ahead of Maybot resigning to ensure I voted for the more Brexity option for CON leader; then CON in GE'19 of course. Hard of thinking types might think the process would be quicker in reverse - I dunno - give it a go and lets find out. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 24, 2023 16:33:43 GMT
Trevor
Providing a wonderful example of the benefits of getting your news exclusively from the Daily Mail and GBeebies
In the last year around 78,000 asylum claims , covering around 100,000 people were made to the U.K. of these around 80% were from conflict zones or areas where extreme danger existed to life or illegal imprisonment or torture were significant risks.
Tory voters
72% of asylum seekers not at risk in their home countries.
Garbage in Garbage out!
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 24, 2023 16:35:23 GMT
Also from YG and I'd agree with the majority (eg on Immigration, then 'Get on with it')
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 24, 2023 16:35:42 GMT
mercian - "No discernible difference in everyday life..." jen - "Wrong again." That's the Brexit somersault in a nutshell. Before we left, people like Mercian were saying it would be a revolution, and people like Jen were saying we couldn't change life much because we would still be tied to the EU. While people like Jen are now pointing to practical impacts, they may well still feel that the UK remains fixed in Europe's orbit, but the Mercian's of this world are reduced to claiming no change, and worse, that no change is a good outcome. More backflips than a Romanian gymnast. But no ribbons, and the big ball is punctured. Nuls points. It's not that they even claim just 'no change' anymore. Recently some brexiters seem to have resorted to a melancholic, insipid line of 'ok it's been bad but it's not catastrophic and we can't undo it so there'.. How inspiring. |
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