c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 18, 2023 13:42:50 GMT
“Meanwhile, other countries are becoming ever more attractive. We’re used to young people from Central and Eastern Europe coming here to work. Yet Poland is now growing so quickly that, if you project pre-pandemic growth rates forwards, it’s set to overtake us in output per person in ten years’ time.
In the meantime, it has a few other perks to offer young people, including exempting those under 26 from paying income tax. It’s a particularly appealing proposition if you can find a way to wrangle remote working at London wages while paying Warsaw prices.”
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 18, 2023 14:05:02 GMT
Another poll by the same people looks what VI would be if Johnson was PM
A much smaller change, but does perhaps indicate how unpopular Sunak is if even Johnson can do better than him
Conservative 31 +3
Labour 46 -3
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Post by alec on Aug 18, 2023 14:16:43 GMT
colin - "If you’re under 50, it’s time to jump ship – get out of Britain while you can" How old is Scotland?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 14:26:17 GMT
colin - "If you’re under 50, it’s time to jump ship – get out of Britain while you can" How old is Scotland? Eh ? |
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Post by graham on Aug 18, 2023 14:49:10 GMT
Westminster Voting Intention: LAB: 44% (-4) CON: 28% (+4) LDM: 10% (=) RFM: 7% (+1) GRN: 5% (-1) SNP: 3% (=) Via @omnisis, 17-18 Aug. Changes w/ 10-11 Aug.
Doubtless last week's poll was an outlier - though this is Labour's smallest lead since late March with this pollster.
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Post by mercian on Aug 18, 2023 15:13:39 GMT
2) We will develop, and have the resources to build enough robots to do nearly all work including care for the elderly and create enough wealth to give everyone a living wage whether they work or not. The last bit seems very unlikely because more and more wealth seems to be being channelled to fewer and fewer people because of multi-nationals. There are plenty of stories about how mechanisation could replace workers, if we just chose to use it. The technology is there. However, the Uk has had a policy of cheap labour for, well, all my lifetime? Maybe not when I was young and we had wage boards and stronger unions, so lets say since the advent of Thatcher about 1980. It is rather unsurprising if we have a policy of cheap labour that the Uk has then failed to invest in mechanisation. I was thinking of the worldwide future situation, not just UK. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 18, 2023 15:25:07 GMT
As others have noted, an issue with inflated property prices and better pensions, is that more oldies may be relatively insulated from the economy, and therefore don’t need to take the welfare of those of working age into account as a priority and therefore can pursue other things. Except of course that most oldies will have children and grandchildren and will certainly take their welfare into account if they can. EDIT: Beaten to it by wb61. The penalty of not lurking on here all day. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,692
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Aug 18, 2023 15:29:46 GMT
As others have noted, an issue with inflated property prices and better pensions, is that more oldies may be relatively insulated from the economy, and therefore don’t need to take the welfare of those of working age into account as a priority and therefore can pursue other things. Except of course that most oldies will have children and grandchildren and will certainly take their welfare into account if they can. Well that’s the issue isn’t it. How much people really do that. I have shown you polling before relating to the matter |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 15:38:09 GMT
As others have noted, an issue with inflated property prices and better pensions, is that more oldies may be relatively insulated from the economy, and therefore don’t need to take the welfare of those of working age into account as a priority and therefore can pursue other things. Except of course that most oldies will have children and grandchildren and will certainly take their welfare into account if they can. EDIT: Beaten to it by wb61 . The penalty of not lurking on here all day. Dont think that counts. Helping the next generation when they are young. Maintains the Plutocracy and Class structure. Just funds another generation of xenophobic Mail reading bloodsuckers. |
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Post by mercian on Aug 18, 2023 15:44:08 GMT
Except of course that most oldies will have children and grandchildren and will certainly take their welfare into account if they can. Well that’s the issue isn’t it. How much people really do that. I have shown you polling before relating to the matter Sorry, I can't remember that polling, but don't bother posting it again. I was extrapolating from what I do, and assumed many would do the same. |
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Post by Mark on Aug 18, 2023 15:46:02 GMT
...Finally, an observation on discussions with some of my social circle of late. Several are well-heeled and very comfortably off. Negligible or non-existent mortgages, large incomes and/or pensions, mid-late fifties onwards demographic. Unlike many of the population, the cost of living crisis, energy costs and mortgage rate increases have been a minor inconvenience, rather than the almost existential threat which some have, and will continue to, experience. In the absence of such grim reality, I see some are filling this void by getting themselves into a right old lather about 'woke' issues, regularly fuelled by getting much of their 'news' from the Mail online feed, thereby constantly reinforcing this indignant thought process. I have seen this happening first hand of late and really was quite shocked. My takeaway from this is that, for a relatively small demographic, probably less than c30% of the population, 'wokism'? is a very real issue, which I suspect the Sunak administration will do its utmost to shore up, since they make up a significant proportion of CON VI. I've been trying to understand why Sunak's Tories appear to be shifting to the right and pandering to their nasty tendency. Current Tory policies must have left a lot of ROC voters feeling politically homeless. Surely there would be more support for a more moderate platform? I wondered if the Tory party believes Starmer's Lab has the centrist vote sewn up? I regard Starmer's Lab as a centrist party, but the Lab party has enduring characteristics that put a ceiling on the votes it can attract from the centre-right (links with the trade union movement, recognition that the UK is an unequal society, comfortable with a bigger state and more pubicly controlled services). So there's still room for a moderate ROC party and at the moment the Tory party doesn't seem interested in occupying that space. Another possibility that occurred to me is that Johnson's purge really did change the party's identity permanently. I know next to nothing about the internal affairs of Conservatism so I've no idea whether this plausible or not. My final thought was that the key to the puzzle might be a change in where people get the information about politics and current affairs and how their political opinions are formed, so it's interesting to read that this doesn't quite with your experience. I wasn't thinking about Mail readers. I was contemplating how little I really know about the readership dynamics of modern media. Mainstream media don't dominate the landscape as they used to, so there could easily be diverse segments of voters out there who're getting their current affairs knowledge from corners of the Internet and social media that are terra incognita to me. Perhaps not enough of us are competent at sifting and parsing the surfeit of sources the Internet offers. Perhaps people who didn't grow up with the Internet and didn't get any media education at school are particularly vulnerable to disinformation. Firstly, re-'woke'. I don't know anyone at all who would describe themselves as such. It has come to be used by those who are ROC, particularly those who are ROC on social issues as a prejorative term, basically an update on "political correctness gone mad". As to why the current government are running on an "anti-woke" platform, the short answer is...they've got little else. Having messed things up on so many issues (which is different from carrying out very unpopular policies efficiently), they are going negative to try to shore up their vote at the next GE. The question of where they will be after the next election, if they get a 97 type hiding but, remain essentially intact, or, if the election result is closer than current polling suggests, I see a new leader, but, essentially little change. The new leader would likely be from the right of the party with the final say given to a membership that elected Liz Truss last time they were asked. Given the trends by age on social issues, they'll likely to lose GE29 as well (unless a so far untested Starmer makes an utter balls up of things). It is only if we see a near or complete tory wipeout that e could see a sea change. While the membership of the party would be the same, their choices would be limited to their few remaining MPs, so would be dependent on who those MPs were. As to media consumption, that is a little more complicated/lengthy...dependent on time, I may post on that later... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 15:53:41 GMT
Except of course that most oldies will have children and grandchildren and will certainly take their welfare into account if they can. EDIT: Beaten to it by wb61 . The penalty of not lurking on here all day. Dont think that counts. Helping the next generation when they are young. Maintains the Plutocracy and Class structure. Just funds another generation of xenophobic Mail reading bloodsuckers. Good grief, you need help. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 15:55:49 GMT
Mainstream media don't dominate the landscape as they used to, so there could easily be diverse segments of voters out there who're getting their current affairs knowledge from corners of the Internet and social media that are terra incognita to me. Hi athena This is the go to authority on News consumption sources in UK:- www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/news-media/news-consumptionClick on " News Consumption in UK-2023 "-really up to date data. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 18, 2023 16:09:20 GMT
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Post by graham on Aug 18, 2023 16:31:21 GMT
Sunak is lying through his teeth or downright ignorant. I do have to say,however, that I don't quite understand the focus by politicians on 'childcare costs' - and why they are treated as a priority at all. I heard nothing about 'help with childcare' in the 1960s and 1970s when growing up under the governments of Macmillan , Wilson & Heath. That was also true of Callaghan's government - and probably Thatcher. It was simply not an issue.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 16:37:28 GMT
Sorry for getting you into a right old lather in terms of needing to debunk my caveated anecdotal musings. I hope you feel better now. Not at all. I like numbers and research. Its not compulsory to engage with the critical thoughts of others. I leave you to your ideas of millions of gender critical, Mail reading misers with the social conscience of Genghis Khan. You are a card. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 18, 2023 16:39:05 GMT
Dont think that counts. Helping the next generation when they are young. Maintains the Plutocracy and Class structure. Just funds another generation of xenophobic Mail reading bloodsuckers. Good grief, you need help. Lighten up old bean. Col was only joking. Am I the only one in this site who gets Col's sense of humour? 🤣🤣 |
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Post by thylacine on Aug 18, 2023 16:42:24 GMT
Sunak is lying through his teeth or downright ignorant. I do have to say,however, that I don't quite understand the focus by politicians on 'childcare costs' - and why they are treated as a priority at all. I heard nothing about 'help with childcare' in the 1960s and 1970s when growing up under the governments of Macmillan , Wilson & Heath. That was also true of Callaghan's government - and probably Thatcher. It was simply not an issue.
Possibly women in the workforce and not "er indoors" working for pin money might be why it wasn't such of an issue? |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 18, 2023 16:42:36 GMT
Sunak is lying through his teeth or downright ignorant. I do have to say,however, that I don't quite understand the focus by politicians on 'childcare costs' - and why they are treated as a priority at all. I heard nothing about 'help with childcare' in the 1960s and 1970s when growing up under the governments of Macmillan , Wilson & Heath. That was also true of Callaghan's government - and probably Thatcher. It was simply not an issue.
Er.. because women need and want and should have every opportunity to work these days.. Isn't that very obvious? |
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Post by mercian on Aug 18, 2023 16:48:20 GMT
Good grief, you need help. Lighten up,bold bean. Col was only joking. Am I the only one in this site who gets Col's sense of humour? 🤣🤣 I do, but perhaps it would help the humourless if he used emojis. I have the same problem myself sometimes. |
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Post by graham on Aug 18, 2023 16:52:54 GMT
Sunak is lying through his teeth or downright ignorant. I do have to say,however, that I don't quite understand the focus by politicians on 'childcare costs' - and why they are treated as a priority at all. I heard nothing about 'help with childcare' in the 1960s and 1970s when growing up under the governments of Macmillan , Wilson & Heath. That was also true of Callaghan's government - and probably Thatcher. It was simply not an issue.
Er.. because women need and want and should have every opportunity to work these days.. Isn't that very obvious? Was that not already true in the 70s and 80s?'Women's Lib' and the Sexual Revolution were very much things of the 60s. |
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Post by Rafwan on Aug 18, 2023 16:59:32 GMT
Not 60s and 70s. More so 80s. As with so many things, women have had a terrible struggle to get themselves heard.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 18, 2023 17:01:52 GMT
Lighten up,bold bean. Col was only joking. Am I the only one in this site who gets Col's sense of humour? 🤣🤣 I do, but perhaps it would help the humourless if he used emojis. I have the same problem myself sometimes. We get him and I'm surprised others don't too. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 18, 2023 17:04:50 GMT
graham Because in the 60's and 70's and 80's the need for childcare was lower as one partner often worked around child commitments part time or not at all. Grandparents also played a part when women mostly retired at 60 it helped The fact that families need both parents or in the case of single parent families the carer to work full time and we have the second most expensive child care costs in the world around ten times higher than in many European union countries makes it a priority. Maybe it doesn't register with you but if you'd just had your adult children move back in because they can't afford paid child care on above average family income it would.
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Post by graham on Aug 18, 2023 17:07:14 GMT
Not 60s and 70s. More so 80s. As with so many things, women have had a terrible struggle to get themselves heard. Barbara Castle brought in Equal Pay legislation in 1969/70. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 17:11:11 GMT
Not 60s and 70s. More so 80s. As with so many things, women have had a terrible struggle to get themselves heard. Barbara Castle brought in Equal Pay legislation in 1969/70. Hooooooray for Babs.  |
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Post by graham on Aug 18, 2023 17:15:45 GMT
graham Because in the 60's and 70's and 80's the need for childcare was lower as one partner often worked around child commitments part time or not at all. Grandparents also played a part when women mostly retired at 60 it helped The fact that families need both parents or in the case of single parent families the carer to work full time and we have the second most expensive child care costs in the world around ten times higher than in many European union countries makes it a priority. Maybe it doesn't register with you but if you'd just had your adult children move back in because they can't afford paid child care on above average family income it would. Grandparents certainly did not look after me or my siblings in the 60s and 70s - and that appeared to be true of most others. My mother stopped work in early 1954 before I was born and never returned to the workplace. Running a household with five kids prevented that and the state certainly did not provide Child Care support beyond the Family Allowance. Only when children were well into secondary school - ie in their midteens- did some take up part time work . Admittedly housing costs were probably more limited at the time. My parents did not become home owners until late 1974 - by which time I was 20. There was no Mortgage burden - just paying rent to the local authority. By 1974 my parents were middle-aged having reached 45/46. But much later on my sister had her first child in early 1984 with a second child to follow in mid- 1986. There was no suggestion of helping her with Child Care costs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 17:20:44 GMT
Reports of a ten year old Sara Sharif being found dead in a house, and the post mortem revealing injuries sustained over a long period, are utterly sickening. Three people police want to speak to are now in Pakistan. Must say, deaths of children in circumstances like these do make me tend towards mercian’s limited death penalty idea. What do people like these have to offer the world? |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 18, 2023 17:25:37 GMT
graham Because in the 60's and 70's and 80's the need for childcare was lower as one partner often worked around child commitments part time or not at all. Grandparents also played a part when women mostly retired at 60 it helped The fact that families need both parents or in the case of single parent families the carer to work full time and we have the second most expensive child care costs in the world around ten times higher than in many European union countries makes it a priority. Maybe it doesn't register with you but if you'd just had your adult children move back in because they can't afford paid child care on above average family income it would. Grandparents certainly did not look after me or my siblings in the 60s and 70s - and that appeared to be true of most others. My mother stopped work in early 1954 before I was born and never returned to the workplace. Running a household with five kids prevented that and the state certainly did not provide Child Care support beyond the Family Allowance. Only when children were well into secondary school - ie in their midteens- did some take up part time work . I was one of six children, my mother worked full time from when I went into infants school (May have been before, but can't be sure) When mum wasn't there we would looked after by a mixture of older sister, aunts and neighbours, most of which lived on the same council estate A lot of mothers worked full time on the estate. Sometimes working on the land and in school holidays they took us kids with them (Sometimes in term time as well!) |
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Post by Rafwan on Aug 18, 2023 17:25:47 GMT
Grandparenting is wonderful, and brings great benefits for all three generations. Social policy should allow for and encourage this. But having all three generations needing to live in the same accommodation is completely wrong; arrangements must surely permit different and appropriate patterns to be negotiated, otherwise the aforementioned benefits are undermined. I speak with great authority on this matter, as my UKPR2 display name demonstrates (derived as it Is from the eldest’s first efforts to say “granddad”)
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