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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 15:50:21 GMT
I think i prefer the other theory- that we actually hate them & its fun to let them know. !?!? The Royal "We"? I hope no one thinks it is "fun". I'm disappointed if you see it that way. We (as in I) are not amused! And by the way. No not the Royal "we" . The UKPR "we" where hatred ,both explicit and implicit , of all sorts of people_ both individuals and groups_ can be found frequently. Lighten up.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 15:51:46 GMT
!?!? The Royal "We"? I hope no one thinks it is "fun". I'm disappointed if you see it that way. We (as in I) are not amused! Some folk really do take life on this board far too seriously. Dear oh dear. As they say. For someone who seems to take offence at virtually everything that is particularly risible. |
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Post by Mark on Aug 17, 2023 15:58:14 GMT
ChatGPT holds ‘systemic’ left-wing bias, researchers sayFindings come amid heightened regulatory scrutiny of generative AI models “ ChatGPT has been accused of a “systematic” left-wing bias that reflects the positions of Labour and US Democrat politicians, raising concerns over its use in policymaking and education.
Researchers found that the chatbot’s responses generally favour left-leaning political beliefs, despite efforts to reduce bias.
The study, led by academics at the University of East Anglia (UEA), claims to be the first large-scale research into ChatGPT’s political slant.
Companies and governments around the world are racing to develop large language models (LLMs) with similar technology to the OpenAI-made chatbot.
“ChatGPT presents a significant and systematic political bias toward the Democrats in the US, Lula in Brazil, and the Labour Party in the UK,” the UEA study’s authors wrote.
“These results translate into real concerns that ChatGPT, and LLMs in general, can extend or even amplify the existing challenges involving political processes posed by the internet and social media.”
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”Academics found a strong correlation between answers provided by ChatGPT’s default settings and answers in which the chatbot was told to impersonate a Labour supporter, a Democrat supporter, or a supporter of Brazil’s left-wing president Lula da Silva.
In contrast, there was a negative relationship between the chatbot and its default answers when it was instructed to impersonate a Conservative, a Republican or a supporter of former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro.”
You could look at it that way, but, alternatively... Having studied computers myself, there is one, among many trueism (is that even a real word?)...computers don't make mistakes, computer programmers do. So, is the problem (assuming that the reported political bias is true) one of the results coming back as more LOC than expected, also assuming that by unbiased, what is meant is actually centrist, or is the problem not that the results aren't more centrist, but, allign more closely with parties viewed as LOC? To give one example, it has been said - on this very board - that the conservative government under Chamberlain was to the left of the Labour government under Blair. The political centre ground is constantly in flux and over time, shifts both leftwards and rightwards, hence, what is essentially a computer program deigned to find a centre ground will miss it in the opposite direction to where the current overton window has shifted. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 17, 2023 16:13:23 GMT
Another of Trevor's finds.
Damien Willey Mr Willey is a freelance journalist who appears to spend most of his time divided equally between gratuitous attacks on various members of the Labour party and more legitimate criticism of the government He's got a particular downer on Sadiq Khan and Keir Starmer.
There's no indication Mr Willey is affiliated with the Labour party from his tweets he appears to possibly be the sole member of the socialist workers wing of the Cornish independence movement!
Matt Thomas appears to spend at least part of his day posting libellous tweets about Keir Starmer's time as director of public prosecutions including ludicrous allegations that he failed to.prosecute " peados" ( his words) and" bent coppers. "
Both such allegations are of course utter cobblers.
Where does he find these links.
Are they sent to him by Tory central office!
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 16:19:50 GMT
!?!? The Royal "We"? I hope no one thinks it is "fun". I'm disappointed if you see it that way. We (as in I) are not amused! And by the way. No not the Royal "we" . The UKPR "we" where hatred ,both explicit and implicit , of all sorts of people_ both individuals and groups_ can be found frequently. Lighten up. Thank you for the 'clarity'. There does seem to be a lot of 'haters' on UKPR2 - best ignored IMO and Mark has tried to offer clarity on that issue (not that some seem pay attention to rules and/or are allowed to get away 'flaming'/trolling). I can see the temptation of "if you can't beat them join them" but IMO that is better left to LAB politicians becoming Tory Plan B once again. I did put a few pounds on recently* so I do have bit of work to do on lightening up.  * Compulsory buggies on most Canadian golf courses, chair-lifts for MTBing, N.American portion sizing and 'fruit sours' (beers) have high calories. Few weeks back in Blighty should do the trick though. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 16:24:36 GMT
And by the way. No not the Royal "we" . The UKPR "we" where hatred ,both explicit and implicit , of all sorts of people_ both individuals and groups_ can be found frequently. Lighten up. Thank you for the 'clarity'. There does seem to be a lot of 'haters' on UKPR2 - best ignored IMO and Mark has tried to offer clarity on that issue (not that some seem pay attention to rules and/or are allowed to get away 'flaming'/trolling). I can see the temptation of "if you can't beat them join them" but IMO that is better left to LAB politicians becoming Tory Plan B once again. I did put a few pounds on recently* so I do have bit of work to do on lightening up. * Compulsory buggies on most Canadian golf courses, chair-lifts for MTBing, N.American portion sizing and 'fruit sours' (beers) have high calories. Few weeks back in Blighty should do the trick though. Thanks. Flippant sarcasm i,m afraid. Should have known better.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 17, 2023 16:28:24 GMT
Wondering why you don't see so many babies
The number of babies born in England and Wales in a year dropped in 2022 to the lowest level in two decades, according to official figures.
It follows the recent trend of decreasing live births, which had been the case before the pandemic, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.
The number has been steadily decreasing for the past decade – returning to roughly the level seen in the early 2000s. It has recently recovered twice from relative lows – on that occasion, and in the mid-1970s – before reaching relative highs in 1990 and 2012.
The ONS data, released on Thursday, showed there were 605,479 live births in England and Wales in 2022. That was down 3.1% from 624,828 in 2021 – and the lowest number since 2002, when there were 596,122.
My daughter Izzie should be adding one to the total within the next few days🤗
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 16:35:48 GMT
Thank you for the 'clarity'. There does seem to be a lot of 'haters' on UKPR2 - best ignored IMO and Mark has tried to offer clarity on that issue (not that some seem pay attention to rules and/or are allowed to get away 'flaming'/trolling). I can see the temptation of "if you can't beat them join them" but IMO that is better left to LAB politicians becoming Tory Plan B once again. I did put a few pounds on recently* so I do have bit of work to do on lightening up. * Compulsory buggies on most Canadian golf courses, chair-lifts for MTBing, N.American portion sizing and 'fruit sours' (beers) have high calories. Few weeks back in Blighty should do the trick though. Thanks. Flippant sarcasm i,m afraid. Should have known better. We RoCs should rise above the lowest form of wit  Plenty of 'hate' from the Far-Left end of the twitterverse which seems to do with their sense of betrayal. Not just Starmer that gets the focus from those who like to get the crayons out. Reeves picked the correct answer IMO. I'd prioritise starving BTL landlords if it was a straight choice on who to starve but it seems a daft question IMO and I'm not sure what policy the Far-Left propose that would starve BTL landlords anyway? Thankfully CON are not going to offer tax relief on mortgage interest for BTL landlords but they can sell up (as the smart money did a while back) and invest in more productive business ventures (some of which do offer tax credits) if they want to. No need to starve them, just 'encourage' sensible choices. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 16:47:29 GMT
Since it's A-Level result day and Uni fees popped up then YG asked a 'cake-ism' question. Whilst most folks would love 'free' stuff then the cost of free Uni fees would probably be around £10billion*/yr by Sep'25 (realistically the first year LAB could introduce it). That equates to about 1.5p* on base rate of income tax and hence IMO why Starmer-Reeves were correct to copy CON(+LDEM), even though Starmer did make a 'pinky pledge' to LAB members that he'd scrap tuition fees then as with the rest of those pledges then Starmer-LAB have now 'moved on'.
?
* Sources available upon request. IFS numbers rounded up (although I'm not sure when fees will next go up). 'Ready reckoner' for the 1.5p on tax.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 17, 2023 16:54:34 GMT
Nothing from Mercian I see. I will head to Oldbury to see if I can discover more. It's only about 50 minutes up the M5 from me.
The slightly encouraging news is that I've been on the Flymo website and there doesn't appear to be any obituaries posted yet on recently deceased customers.
Nor on the B&Q website. When Mercian mentioned being assisted by a female member of staff in his local B&Q store, I feared it might have been Jen. I know she has a part time job with them but I thought that was up north somewhere.
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Post by barbara on Aug 17, 2023 17:01:17 GMT
And by the way. No not the Royal "we" . The UKPR "we" where hatred ,both explicit and implicit , of all sorts of people_ both individuals and groups_ can be found frequently. Lighten up. Thank you for the 'clarity'. There does seem to be a lot of 'haters' on UKPR2 - best ignored IMO and Mark has tried to offer clarity on that issue (not that some seem pay attention to rules and/or are allowed to get away 'flaming'/trolling). I can see the temptation of "if you can't beat them join them" but IMO that is better left to LAB politicians becoming Tory Plan B once again. I did put a few pounds on recently* so I do have bit of work to do on lightening up. * Compulsory buggies on most Canadian golf courses, chair-lifts for MTBing, N.American portion sizing and 'fruit sours' (beers) have high calories. Few weeks back in Blighty should do the trick though. Pure deflection. Reflecting onto others your own feelings and emotions. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 17:01:35 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 17, 2023 17:03:41 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 17, 2023 17:09:30 GMT
And another one @gud appears to be an associate of " red collective" who ever the fuck they are, another group of potential Tory shrills who seem particularly keen to libel Keir Starmer's period as DPP with posts remarkably similar to the previous geezer.
Any Labour supporters who feel the urge to defend your own party please feel free!
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 17:10:33 GMT
Thank you for the 'clarity'. There does seem to be a lot of 'haters' on UKPR2 - best ignored IMO and Mark has tried to offer clarity on that issue (not that some seem pay attention to rules and/or are allowed to get away 'flaming'/trolling). I can see the temptation of "if you can't beat them join them" but IMO that is better left to LAB politicians becoming Tory Plan B once again. I did put a few pounds on recently* so I do have bit of work to do on lightening up. * Compulsory buggies on most Canadian golf courses, chair-lifts for MTBing, N.American portion sizing and 'fruit sours' (beers) have high calories. Few weeks back in Blighty should do the trick though. Pure deflection. Reflecting onto others your own feelings and emotions. ?!? I feel a bit bad (guilt?) for putting on 4lbs in weight but I've no idea if colin wants to lose a bit of weight or not. As a nation we do need to lighten up as being overweight costs the NHS a lot of money every year. I admit my excuses are pretty weak (deflection?) but those 'fruit sours' are very nice and pedalling a DH MTB uphill in 30C when I can ride a chair-lift would be a bit daft. I did sometimes make sure to share a main course or just have a starter when eating out and given many of the golf courses force you to use a buggy then not much I could do about that. Anyway, 2-3weeks should see me back to normal weight.
Obese patients cost NHS twice as much as those with healthy weight, study sayswww.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/18/obese-patients-cost-nhs-twice-much-healthy-weight-study |
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 17, 2023 17:17:05 GMT
And another one @gud appears to be an associate of " red collective" who ever the fuck they are, another group of potential Tory shrills who seem particularly keen to libel Keir Starmer's period as DPP with posts remarkably similar to the previous geezer. Any Labour supporters who feel the urge to defend your own party please feel free! You're not seriously suggesting that anybody should engage with this infantile drivel, are you?? |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 17:18:07 GMT
Not my polity but Starmer's 'influence' over Sarwar (who is apparently the SLAB chappy) seems pretty clear (and can/should be compared to how SCON are 'sock puppets' for ECON). That word 'reflect' seems to getting used a lot by LAB recently but Khan is staying strong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 17:19:23 GMT
Thanks. Flippant sarcasm i,m afraid. Should have known better. We RoCs should rise above the lowest form of wit Plenty of 'hate' from the Far-Left end of the twitterverse which seems to do with their sense of betrayal. Not just Starmer that gets the focus from those who like to get the crayons out. Reeves picked the correct answer IMO. I'd prioritise starving BTL landlords if it was a straight choice on who to starve but it seems a daft question IMO and I'm not sure what policy the Far-Left propose that would starve BTL landlords anyway? Thankfully CON are not going to offer tax relief on mortgage interest for BTL landlords but they can sell up (as the smart money did a while back) and invest in more productive business ventures (some of which do offer tax credits) if they want to. No need to starve them, just 'encourage' sensible choices. There is a strand on the left which really doesn't like them. Not sure how significant it is though ? |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 17:24:18 GMT
We RoCs should rise above the lowest form of wit Plenty of 'hate' from the Far-Left end of the twitterverse which seems to do with their sense of betrayal. Not just Starmer that gets the focus from those who like to get the crayons out. Reeves picked the correct answer IMO. I'd prioritise starving BTL landlords if it was a straight choice on who to starve but it seems a daft question IMO and I'm not sure what policy the Far-Left propose that would starve BTL landlords anyway? Thankfully CON are not going to offer tax relief on mortgage interest for BTL landlords but they can sell up (as the smart money did a while back) and invest in more productive business ventures (some of which do offer tax credits) if they want to. No need to starve them, just 'encourage' sensible choices. There is a strand on the left which really doesn't like them. Not sure how significant it is though ? Current VI suggests it is a very limited number of LAB'19 who have moved to WNV/DK/Green but into a GE when LAB need to campaign on their 'New-LAB' manifesto and face questioning then perhaps more LAB'19 will realise that LAB is now a Tory party? TBC... The most 'politically engaged' often move first and it seems that the SCG MPs that avoided the purge are keeping their heads down and possibly their powder dry to serve their revenge cold after Starmer-Reeves get into Downing Street? TBC... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 17:31:58 GMT
And another one @gud appears to be an associate of " red collective" who ever the fuck they are, another group of potential Tory shrills who seem particularly keen to libel Keir Starmer's period as DPP with posts remarkably similar to the previous geezer. Any Labour supporters who feel the urge to defend your own party please feel free! To what point? |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 17:33:46 GMT
Credit where credit is due. Starmer was ahead of the game on working out how to appeal to CON'19 voters and picked the highest option in the below list. Ensure LAB is now ABC*
The issue of LAB VI 'cognitive dissonance' being seen in:
Whilst gen.pub is perhaps less aware of how similar to Starmer-LAB is to Rishi-CON on policies then into GE'24 will that 'dissonance' prevail? Then being able to keep a very broad coalition of voters from LAB'19 and Remain types to 'might as well try Red Tories' and 'Make Brexit Work' CON types might prove a bit tricky. TBC though...
* C being Corbyn in this case
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 17, 2023 17:34:14 GMT
crossbat11 You've got a point but I quite like demolishing the veracity of the links. He does after all take up so much space posting them perhaps a simple  Would suffice as a response to all of them though. The thing is some of his other posts like the R&W link above are actually quite interesting. Finding a nugget amongst the dross.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 17:35:58 GMT
Thank you for the 'clarity'. There does seem to be a lot of 'haters' on UKPR2 - best ignored IMO and Mark has tried to offer clarity on that issue (not that some seem pay attention to rules and/or are allowed to get away 'flaming'/trolling). I can see the temptation of "if you can't beat them join them" but IMO that is better left to LAB politicians becoming Tory Plan B once again. I did put a few pounds on recently* so I do have bit of work to do on lightening up. * Compulsory buggies on most Canadian golf courses, chair-lifts for MTBing, N.American portion sizing and 'fruit sours' (beers) have high calories. Few weeks back in Blighty should do the trick though. Thanks. Flippant sarcasm i,m afraid. Should have known better. Indeed. Ironically your very, very best roc chum didn’t get the “flippancy” either. Should have known better… |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 17:46:58 GMT
The issue of LAB VI 'cognitive dissonance' being seen in: Whilst gen.pub is perhaps less aware of how similar to Starmer-LAB is to Rishi-CON on policies then into GE'24 will that 'dissonance' prevail? I'm not convinced that it is cognitive dissonance. Their dislike is for the "Con Party and what they stand for". I think that can still be true when some policies appear similar. -The Lab Party isn't the Con Party-and "what they stand for" can be a belief in an implementation more sympathetic to them. In one of my social groups today I again heard that " nothing seems to work properly" thing . I think its a potential rich seam for Lab I'm afraid. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2023 17:48:56 GMT
Thanks. Flippant sarcasm i,m afraid. Should have known better. Indeed. Ironically your very, very best roc chum didn’t get the “flippancy” either. Should have known better… Its a cross I bear , sadly. But thanks for the helpful advice. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Aug 17, 2023 18:04:19 GMT
The issue of LAB VI 'cognitive dissonance' being seen in: Whilst gen.pub is perhaps less aware of how similar to Starmer-LAB is to Rishi-CON on policies then into GE'24 will that 'dissonance' prevail? I'm not convinced that it is cognitive dissonance. Their dislike is for the "Con Party and what they stand for". I think that can still be true when some policies appear similar. -The Lab Party isn't the Con Party-and "what they stand for" can be a belief in an implementation more sympathetic to them. In one of my social groups today I again heard that " nothing seems to work properly" thing . I think its a potential rich seam for Lab I'm afraid. It was a two parter and ABCON (incumbent*) is pretty powerful, especially at the moment and IIRC I posted polling t'other day that shows most people currently think Rishi is failing to deliver. Into GE'24 then that might change but only in a narrowing of the lead IMO and maybe a bit of 'stay in bed' for potential LAB voters on the day (low GOTV) The 'policy' part is where we might see some dissonance nearer a GE that might see lower LAB'19 'loyalty' (with move of more LAB'19 to Green/WNV/DK?). Saying CON are shit is fair enough (and I'd largely agree) and voting AGAINST CON is one thing. Voting FOR LAB when the policies are 'Continuity CON' is where the 'dissonance' comes in and whilst it is very likely to see Starmer in #10 for one term then 2+**?? A few of the more politically engaged folks on twitterverse seem to think Starmer-LAB is a CON already but a small group of shouty socialists don't get much 'mainstream' attention. PS A good quote on the confusion some people have between sarcasm and irony from the film Chalet Girl:
"Richard: Do we pay extra for irony?
Kim: No, the irony's free, it's the sarcasm you're paying for. Ironically..." 
www.quotes.net/mquote/984929* With notable exception of Italy (no one else is more anti-immigration than the govt they recently elected?) and US (where Biden has been throwing money around and GoP are bonkers) then most polities have seen a shift in VI away from the incumbent govt. The 'pendulum' prediction model failed in GE'19 due to the 'unique' circumstances of that GE but we often see a sense of 'give the other lot a go' after 2-3terms. ** A lot would depend on CON making themselves 'popular' again. We saw turnout collapse for Blair into GE'01. Folks weren't that keen to vote FOR LAB but even less keen to vote ABLAB or FOR CON. Starmer could well stay in power on ever lower turnout but I don't have a crystal ball - just plausible scenarios. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 17, 2023 18:25:45 GMT
Realpolitik does mean we need alignment with the Single Market, but rejoining the EU? No. But thats most of the EU rules. Which is why the conservatives ruled it out, vassal state status and all that. But I agree, its better than being out. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 17, 2023 18:27:13 GMT
jib Or indeed the 14th largest GDP per capita in Europe 25th in the World and going down.We were 15th in the World in 2007 22nd in 2019 Per capita is rather more to the point in terms of how well off we each are. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 17, 2023 18:33:32 GMT
crossbat11 You've got a point but I quite like demolishing the veracity of the links. He does after all take up so much space posting them perhaps a simple View AttachmentWould suffice as a response to all of them though. The thing is some of his other posts like the R&W link above are actually quite interesting. Finding a nugget amongst the dross. Yes, his Google searching does occasionally dig up an interesting poll or two, but isn't that a bit like the probability that if you allowed a monkey to play around with a typewriter for hundreds of years it would eventually come up with the complete works of Shakespeare? But you have a mountain of moronic gibberish to wade through too. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 17, 2023 18:34:36 GMT
Yes, we are now seeing something of a publick backlash, to some things, such as ULEZ, which the tories are now latching on to, hoping to make it a wedge issue, but, even where there is a backlash, the policy was there in the first place for there to be a backlash against. All these changes which involve an element of stick also need some carrot to make them acceptable. The current schemes discriminating against older cars have a huge flaw in them because we have no way of knowing if these are the most polluting cars. Sure, we can say they create more pollution per driven mile, but there is the problem. We dont know how many miles any of them are driving. A brand new vehicle doing 50,000 miles a year in a city is going to produce much more pollution than an old banger from 1950 which does 200 miles a year as a classic car. Or very probably than one of these still quite modern vehicles being attacked by UlEZs doing maybe as much as 5,000 or 10,000. Some of these cars would seem to be actually at or near the cutoff, they just werent assessed for it. Its a dangerous short cut to not count how many miles they really do or estimate which are really doing the polluting. Likely to upset people. |
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