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Post by shevii on May 4, 2023 20:41:05 GMT
Still I suppose if our future robot overlords give us nice food and let us exercise on a little wheel we'll be ok. đ /photo/1 |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blipâŚ
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 4, 2023 20:43:10 GMT
So if you only had a choice between Foot or Thatcher in the era, with associated policies at the time, who do you pick Leftie? Anybody? I voted SDP in 1983. The joke in those days was "What's the opposite of nepotism? Being Paul Foot's uncle". 'Nuff said. But if you had to pick and could only pick between Foot and Thatch, who would you pick? |
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Post by Rafwan on May 4, 2023 20:58:54 GMT
So if you only had a choice between Foot or Thatcher in the era, with associated policies at the time, who do you pick Leftie? Anybody? Footie by a country mile (whatever the hell that is). An SDP vote was a Thatcher vote. This was forty years ago and those policies made complete sense at that time. A changed world requires changed policies. BTW. That link is to an outfit that has nothing to do with the Labour Party. So I wouldnât trust it without checking the bona fides. The fact that the URL suggests it is makes it doubly suspicious. |
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Post by Rafwan on May 4, 2023 21:01:12 GMT
Just voted I was struck by how archaic the process is - pencil and a list then shove it in a box to be counted by hand! I don't have much problem with photo id myself, but what would be the problem about voting (in a booth) digitally, then we'd know the result as soon as polling closed. Is there some reason I'm not aware of? If there's a power cut, you can still vote with paper. Ensuring the electronic tally can't be tampered with is harder than many realise No doubt others can furnish other reasons too. Yep. It is just nice. Whatâs the hurry? |
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Post by johntel on May 4, 2023 21:09:24 GMT
It is an utter disgrace, but of course the current Tories (and their cheerleaders and apologists) have no shame. I have reminded every one of the 100+ people I have spoken to today of the need to take ID. Edit: there is a theory that this might hurt the Tories more than they expect as older people often lack photo ID. However, for me, that is not the point. Democracy in this country is in a fragile state; it needs to be nurtured and grown not played with for partisan advantage. I'm just watching the iTV News at Ten - they said that the number of people without photo ID was much less than had been feared. |
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Post by johntel on May 4, 2023 21:13:00 GMT
Peston thinks that Lib Dems will do 'exceptionally well'.
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Post by alec on May 4, 2023 21:15:20 GMT
Not sure if this has been aired or not, but this, from David Starkey, needs to be given a bit of a kicking - www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/may/04/david-starkey-says-pm-uninterested-in-coronation-as-he-is-not-grounded-in-our-cultureI'm obviously no fan of our PM, who I see as on the less end of more or less useless, but to suggest the lack of interest in the monarchs coronation this weekend is because Sunak isn't really one of us is shameful stuff, especially when Starkey directly raises the issue of Sunak's religion in the matter. Starkey is one of those puffed up, self opinionated academic historians who know everything about history and have learned nothing from it. A GB News favourite, and it's not difficult to see why. It's hard to conclude anything other than Starkey is a straightforward bigot, hiding behind academic credentials, but it is still very sad to see this kind of nonsense being given an airing on British broadcast media. Sunak is a hopeless PM, but the fact that few are very bothered about the coronation is nothing to do with the colour of his skin or his religion. |
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Post by alec on May 4, 2023 21:16:39 GMT
Would actually be quite good if there was a bit of a fuss about voter ID this time around. Better to get it aired now, rather than the day after the GE.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on May 4, 2023 21:19:29 GMT
Lib-dems have their tails up
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on May 4, 2023 21:21:32 GMT
It is an utter disgrace, but of course the current Tories (and their cheerleaders and apologists) have no shame. I have reminded every one of the 100+ people I have spoken to today of the need to take ID. Edit: there is a theory that this might hurt the Tories more than they expect as older people often lack photo ID. However, for me, that is not the point. Democracy in this country is in a fragile state; it needs to be nurtured and grown not played with for partisan advantage. I'm just watching the iTV News at Ten - they said that the number of people without photo ID was much less than had been feared.
More useful would be the comment that "a number of people died unnecessarily" |
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Post by RAF on May 4, 2023 21:22:10 GMT
If there's a power cut, you can still vote with paper. Ensuring the electronic tally can't be tampered with is harder than many realise No doubt others can furnish other reasons too. Yep. It is just nice. Whatâs the hurry? A "country mile' varied in length as was the way with the Old English Mile (often around 1.3 international miles). It was however always longer that what became the "statute mile" (1760 yards) in the Middle Ages. Scotland, Wales and Ireland also originally had different measures of distance for their miles. Why a "country" mile? No one knows for sure. It may have been because rural areas of England were slow to adopt the statute mile and retained their own lomger versions of the distance. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blipâŚ
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 4, 2023 21:22:50 GMT
So what results should I be looking out for?
1am The first councils to declare will be in the northeast where Labour will want a solid showing to prove that they are on track for a good night in the so-called red wall. In particular, Labour will be wanting to make ground in Hartlepool, which the Tories won in a 2021 by-election. Elsewhere it will also hope to pick up seats in Tory controlled Basildon.
2am A number of Midlands seats will declare including Redditch, Sandwell and Worcester. Worcester has been swinging between Conservative and no overall control for the past 20 years and is presently a Conservative minority administration. The Lib Dems will be watching Brentwood, where they are second to the Tories, as a signal of how their prospects are fairing.
3am The first âall-outâ councils declare, including Boston or Peterborough where the Tories will be hoping to take back seats from independents.
4am Plymouth will be the place to watch, where Labour needs seven seats to regain control of the council. The Tories also have a minority administration in Bolton, where Labour needs to make gains.
5am The Lib Dems are quietly confident of making big gains in Windsor & Maidenhead, the home of Theresa May. This is a big test of how the blue wall is holding up.
6am The bellweather council of Stoke-on-Trent will declare. In 2019 the Tories won all three parliamentary seats in the city and the party has a minority administration on the council. The Tories will want to see their vote holding up here as a signal for the general election.
1pm Solihull and Stratford-upon-Avon used to be solidly Tory but now have small majorities where the Lib Dems are hoping to do well.
2pm Labour needs to comfortably regain a majority on Blackpool and make gains in Hyndburn to show the party is on track for 2024. The Lib Dems will be looking to Welwyn and East Cambridgeshire as a sign of their progress.
3pm Labour are looking to take back Darlington, which they lost in 2019 while the Lib Dems are looking to Surrey Heath and Wokingham, both of which are under no overall control at the moment.
4pm This will be a critical hour for Labour, where a large number of its target seats declare. These include Swindon, Gravesham, Great Yarmouth, and North East Derbyshire, where Labour lost 16 seats last time round.
5pm Derby, where Labour lost 13 seats in 2019, declares. The party also wants to shore up support in Bury, Bolsover and Southampton and regain High Peak and Stockton-on-Tees.
Times
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Post by matt126 on May 4, 2023 21:44:15 GMT
Would actually be quite good if there was a bit of a fuss about voter ID this time around. Better to get it aired now, rather than the day after the GE. There will be issues with voters being turned away, but the question needs to be asked how many voters did not make it to the polling station in the first place either because they did not have ID or were put off despite having the ID as did not want to carry it around all day before voting at end of work shift The other issue that cannot be tested is that in General Election turn out would likely be much higher. If there were surges in voting at some polling stations this could cause delays and lengthy queues due to the longer time taken to process voters. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 4, 2023 21:44:48 GMT
I voted SDP in 1983. The joke in those days was "What's the opposite of nepotism? Being Paul Foot's uncle". 'Nuff said. But if you had to pick and could only pick between Foot and Thatch, who would you pick? The post 1983 election studies and interviews with voters were unanimous in finding that Liberal/SDP Alliance voters would have favoured the Tories over Labour by a significant margin had they been forced to chose. It is a favorite myth in some Labour circles that the SDP cost Labour the 1983 election. The reality is that in a straight Con v Lab fight the Conservatives would have an even larger landslide than they actually achieved. When you think that the choice was between Thatcher's Conservatives post Falklands and an economic recovery and a Labour Party that was still riven with factional in-fighting and the malign presence of Tony Benn even after the SDP defectors had left, it is not really a surprise that the average voter, who is much less left wing than most posters on this site, would have chosen the former. The Lib/SDP Alliance acted as a safety valve to give people a third option. I appreciate that a lot of people will be outraged by that and demand I produce the evidence (which I only have to hand in printed book form) but I am too tired to track it down on the internet tonight. If people really want I will look tomorrow. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on May 4, 2023 21:49:28 GMT
For those hoping to stay up all night awaiting results Britain Elects are saying: "We expect less than a quarter of the wards will declare by 6am this evening. Damning blow for the hot-take economy."
So we might all be better off going to bed.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blipâŚ
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 4, 2023 21:51:29 GMT
But if you had to pick and could only pick between Foot and Thatch, who would you pick? The post 1983 election studies and interviews with voters were unanimous in finding that Liberal/SDP Alliance voters would have favoured the Tories over Labour by a significant margin had they been forced to chose. It is a favorite myth in some Labour circles that the SDP cost Labour the 1983 election. Well you say that but⌠ |
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Post by Rafwan on May 4, 2023 21:57:52 GMT
But if you had to pick and could only pick between Foot and Thatch, who would you pick? The post 1983 election studies and interviews with voters were unanimous in finding that Liberal/SDP Alliance voters would have favoured the Tories over Labour by a significant margin had they been forced to chose. It is a favorite myth in some Labour circles that the SDP cost Labour the 1983 election. The reality is that in a straight Con v Lab fight the Conservatives would have an even larger landslide than they actually achieved. When you think that the choice was between Thatcher's Conservatives post Falklands and an economic recovery and a Labour Party that was still riven with factional in-fighting and the malign presence of Tony Benn even after the SDP defectors had left, it is not really a surprise that the average voter, who is much less left wing than most posters on this site, would have chosen the former. The Lib/SDP Alliance acted as a safety valve to give people a third option. I appreciate that a lot of people will be outraged by that and demand I produce the evidence (which I only have to hand in printed book form) but I am too tired to track it down on the internet tonight. If people really want I will look tomorrow. Oooh, donât think a significant margin is anything like as big as a country mile. Hope you are recovering from the day and get a great result. And a good nightâs sleep! |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 4, 2023 22:21:18 GMT
Peston thinks that Lib Dems will do 'exceptionally well'. Donât tell jib ! |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 4, 2023 22:27:12 GMT
I'm just watching the iTV News at Ten - they said that the number of people without photo ID was much less than had been feared.
More useful would be the comment that "a number of people died unnecessarily"One of my favourites is biscuits, for example, that declare themselves to contain â40% less sugarâ. Less than what? Candy floss? |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on May 4, 2023 22:31:34 GMT
Not sure if this has been aired or not, but this, from David Starkey, needs to be given a bit of a kicking - www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/may/04/david-starkey-says-pm-uninterested-in-coronation-as-he-is-not-grounded-in-our-cultureI'm obviously no fan of our PM, who I see as on the less end of more or less useless, but to suggest the lack of interest in the monarchs coronation this weekend is because Sunak isn't really one of us is shameful stuff, especially when Starkey directly raises the issue of Sunak's religion in the matter. Starkey is one of those puffed up, self opinionated academic historians who know everything about history and have learned nothing from it. A GB News favourite, and it's not difficult to see why. It's hard to conclude anything other than Starkey is a straightforward bigot, hiding behind academic credentials, but it is still very sad to see this kind of nonsense being given an airing on British broadcast media. Sunak is a hopeless PM, but the fact that few are very bothered about the coronation is nothing to do with the colour of his skin or his religion. He appears to like saying outrageous things to get attention. Whatever collective culture Starkey is referring to as âoursâ it sure as hell ainât mine. |
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Post by eor on May 4, 2023 22:33:12 GMT
Doesn't the value of that ITV comment depend on just how extensive the fears were? Without context it's like saying that some people survived an explosion - "the death rate was much less than had been feared".
More useful would be the comment that "a number of people died unnecessarily" One of my favourites is biscuits, for example, that declare themselves to contain â40% less sugarâ. Less than what? Candy floss? If you're worried about sugar in biscuits you should buy the 'all butter' ones. Tho I suppose the fat content might be challenging... |
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Post by eor on May 4, 2023 22:52:23 GMT
Coventry is one of the councils counting tonight, but any interest is likely to be niche even by local election standards.
Labour already hold 14 of the 18 seats up tonight, and a huge majority on the overall council. They'll expect to take one of the 4 wards the Tories are defending tonight (Westwood), and might taken a second (Bablake) if they're having a very good night. or the Tories are having a really bad one. Labour are under pressure themselves from the Greens in one ward (Holbrook), and on a low turnout could lose another (Sherbourne) to the Tories due to very local factors - this is the ward where the Tories won the by-election from Labour a few months back, for those who remember that particular oddity in the weekly Thursday night rituals on here.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blipâŚ
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 4, 2023 22:53:28 GMT
One of my favourites is biscuits, for example, that declare themselves to contain â40% less sugarâ. Less than what? Candy floss? If you're worried about sugar in biscuits you should buy the 'all butter' ones. Tho I suppose the fat content might be challenging...  I think when it comes to biccies, on election nights the biccies of choice on the board are conventionally Hob Nobs |
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Post by jimjam on May 4, 2023 23:05:45 GMT
Darlington Prediction now over:
Lab 22 (includes 1 Ind Lab).
Con 17
GRN 5
LD 4
Ind 2
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Post by jimjam on May 4, 2023 23:12:07 GMT
Graham/Neil, that Green Voodoo polling Paul Waugh was tweeting about was in Darlington.
I have known about it for several weeks but didn't want to raise as is too partisan ahead of voting but feel I can comment now.
Frankly the Greens should be embarrassed and hopefully after the results won't be tempted to fashion such inaccurate narratives again.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blipâŚ
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 5, 2023 0:20:24 GMT
News on Braintree (!!!) from the Beeb:
âGlum Tories in foreign secretary's constituency
Simon Dedman
BBC Essex political reporter
A Conservative source tells me the party is in big trouble in Braintree, a council it has had a majority in since 2007.
One source used an expletive to describe the outlook there, saying the party could end up with councillor numbers in the "high teens".
The Tories currently have a majority and had 33 councillors going into this election.
Foreign Secretary James Cleverlyâs constituency is Braintree and a large part of Priti Patelâs Witham seat is within the boroughâ.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blipâŚ
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on May 5, 2023 0:33:17 GMT
Also from the Beeb:
âOn average, the swing from Conservative to Labour in the most pro-Brexit wards is a little over 4%, whereas it is only 3% in the least pro-Brexit wards.
Meanwhile, Labour's own vote is up by eight points in the most pro-Brexit wards, but up by six in the least pro-Brexit.â
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Post by ptarmigan on May 5, 2023 1:35:20 GMT
Best of luck to steve and pjw1961.
I've been following the results as they come in and Labour have had a great night in my backyard. 1/3rd of the council up for election in Rushmoor and Tories have retained control but tonight Labour have won 8 seats, Tories 4 and Lib Dems 1, Lab winning 5 seats from Con. They've won every ward in Aldershot, including the one in which I live, which I don't think has ever been anything other than Tory. Fair play.
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Post by thylacine on May 5, 2023 3:05:28 GMT
Early doors but swing at moment to Labour at 11â˘5 % and rising.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2023 3:38:44 GMT
LAB gain Stoke-on-Trent from NOC with more to come. Significant.
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