Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 25, 2023 10:00:32 GMT
Reid and Blunkett were 'rogue' types Blair used as attack dogs 'to get things done' at particular times. Blair himself didn't like being held accountable ny his cabinet and preferred 'sofa Govmt'. Your source material to justify your 'conspiracy' isn't strong colin . Ah yes-all disreputable conspiracy theorists trying to get things done. Who on earth did they think they were ? IMO we elect a government 'to get things done' (and 'all the time' not just at 'particular times') but it seems some people disagree? I'd encourage folks to read the CSW piece I posted. If the Guardian has an article from a biased source (eg Lord Kerslake) then you'd be pretty gullible to believe everything he says given the source and the outlet (same would apply to someone like Lord Frost writing in the Torygraph). Of course you need to check both the source and the outlet as Starmer has been writing in the Sun and Daily Wail. However, if CSW highlights successive problems within the Home Office covering both CON and LAB HMGs then at some point if it keeps looking like a duck, keeps swimming like a duck and keeps quacking like a duck then most folks would conclude... it's a duck! A consistent pattern being different to a 'one off'. No one (not even Raab himself) is saying Raab was not "abrasive" and difficult for some people to work for but given so many other ministers have had the same 'low productivity' experience from the Home Office (and the 'spin off' MoJ) then you'd have to be extremely gullible to think the Home Office (+MoJ) don't have a Civil Service problem - one that someone needs to fix for the benefit of all future govts and hence the benefit of the country. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 25, 2023 10:06:14 GMT
Rosie Holt is about to go tour. She's pretty funny so if she's doing a show near anyone soon then buy some tickets and go see her. Ipswich 29Apr closest to me but sadly I'm away this weekend.
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Post by jib on Apr 25, 2023 10:08:32 GMT
In Mr T I think I've rarely encountered someone who appears to so embody everything they rail against others for supposedly being. Self-awareness level: non-existent He's just at the opposite side of the circle I'd say (relative to you).  |
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Post by leftieliberal on Apr 25, 2023 10:09:11 GMT
The really, really bad decision was for a middle ranking state to have pretensions to a past global grandeur and invest £ billions on overseas offensive capability. While, in domestic affairs, there are differences between the main parties in England, I see virtually none in terms of acceptance that the Empire is gone (though it shouldn't be forgotten). This is quite right. Even though the sabotage of the Nordstream pipelines was long after the decisions on the carriers were made, the military should surely have remembered the cutting of the German telegraph cables at the beginning of WW1, which forced the Germans to use radio to communicate with their overseas colonies and allies (and eventually led to Germany's defeat when the Zimmerman telegram became public knowledge, bringing the USA into WW1). The biggest threat to the UK is a hostile country, like Russia, blowing up the undersea HVDC power lines and fibre-optic cables. They could easily plant the explosives in advance and without any means to survey the cables we would never know they were there. What we really needed was not aircraft carriers but frigate-sized ships fitted with submersibles to monitor what is happening on the seabed around our shores. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 25, 2023 10:12:23 GMT
In Mr T I think I've rarely encountered someone who appears to so embody everything they rail against others for supposedly being. Self-awareness level: non-existent He's just at the opposite side of the circle I'd say (relative to you). You/others can place me wherever you want but not sure where you'd place someone who very much wants to tackle climate change (green rather than Green), believes in a more interventionist role for the state (red-Lexiteer) but also 'socially conservative' and believes in 'Equality of opportunity' (blue-Tory). Anyway, a thought from Mr.T: |
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 25, 2023 10:20:48 GMT
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Post by moby on Apr 25, 2023 10:28:33 GMT
Reid and Blunkett were 'rogue' types Blair used as attack dogs 'to get things done' at particular times. Blair himself didn't like being held accountable ny his cabinet and preferred 'sofa Govmt'. Your source material to justify your 'conspiracy' isn't strong colin . Who on earth did they think they were ? Ministers who didn't listen to good advice....Blunkett now acknowledges he got the IPP changes wrong! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2023 10:45:58 GMT
A person with 3 or more Jewish grandparents is considered to be a Jew. thats my point. It didnt matter whether the person concerned had stereotypical palestinian jewish features or whether they looked like a poster arian. It was nothing to do with their actual racial type. It was about the social identity of their recent ancestors. Its very different to hating someone because their skin is black. In a mixed white/black family you might get kids who randomly turn out looking white, or looking black. And then they might go off to university and the white looking one gets treated very different to the black looking one. Thats classical racial prejudice. But in nazi Germany didnt matter if one looked a classic arian, and the other a stereotypical jew. It wasnt their racial type Nazis objected to but their national identity. The idea that Nazi persecution of Jews and other races was not based in notions of racial superiority of the German master race (and consequent inferiority of other races) but was about social identity, is quite frankly, even by your standards, one of the most ludicrous propositions I've ever come across on UKPR2.
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hireton
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Post by hireton on Apr 25, 2023 11:04:28 GMT
This is a good summary by two legal academics of the grounds on which the Scottish Government is challenging the UK Government's s35 order in relation the GRR Bill putting them in the wider context of the devolution settlement: ukconstitutionallaw.org/2023/04/25/chris-mccorkindale-and-aileen-mcharg-rescuing-the-gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-the-scottish-governments-challenge-to-the-section-35-order/The authors' concluding paragraphs about the wider implications are noteworthy: "Indeed, the way in which this dispute is resolved could well represent a watershed moment in the history of devolution. The GRR Bill has been remarkable for the extent to which opponents have sought to make use of arguments about devolved competence throughout the legislative process, and of the opportunities that the devolution legislation affords for “forum-shifting” from the Scottish to the UK level, where their criticisms of the Bill have found a more receptive political audience. This kind of “weaponisation” of decision-making constraints is no doubt inevitable in any system of constitutionally-limited and multi-level government. Nevertheless, the UK courts have in the past shown themselves to be sensitive to the fact that, as Lord Hope has said, “the democratic process is liable to be subverted if, on a question of political or moral judgment, opponents of an Act achieve through the courts what they could not achieve through Parliament” (AXA, [49]). As this case makes its way through the courts, we hope that judges will be equally alive to the dangers to Scottish democracy – and indeed to the central constitutional purpose of devolution – of allowing policy choices allocated to the devolved level to be too easily overturned by the UK Government. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 25, 2023 11:36:58 GMT
colin"I don't see steve as a gardener though." Actually I quite enjoy a bit of horticulture. I have no difficulty at all imagining you tending a compost heap.
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Post by shevii on Apr 25, 2023 12:01:45 GMT
The bizarre thing is that years ago none of us would have suspected for a second that such a clip might be real, now the world is so insane that we can't be sure! It took me a very long time to work out this one was parody as it seemed highly likely it was the sort of thing he would have said: Certainly confused below the line and when someone asked if this is true he got his twitter buddy to "factcheck" it with a "confirmed true" |
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Apr 25, 2023 12:20:47 GMT
You don't think the most likely explanation is that Raab is trying to put blame for this own failures onto others like a petulant, entitled child? It is amazing how the party who I remember for decades. lecturing us on 'personal responsibility', literally never ever taking responsibility for their own failings. 13 years we've had of this lot. 13 years they have had to change things for the better. 13 years ofd blaming everyone other than themselves for the state of the countries that they have governed and moulded. Harder to blame the EU now of course so it's the unions, it's the civil servants, it's absolutely anyone but them ... Colin made a jibe about some loc types being gullible. If he truly believes what he is writing on this, then 'gullible' is the precise word for it. |
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Apr 25, 2023 13:46:21 GMT
Anyway, I shall leave you all in peace for the rest of the day. Finishing work early and then I'm off to Arsenal's ground to see West Ham's kids beat them in the FA Youth Cup Final. Come on you irons as we say!
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Post by bardin1 on Apr 25, 2023 13:52:38 GMT
Why do you think all Civil Servants are completely incapable of political bias, incompetence, and concerted efforts to get rid of a minister ? Having been a senior local government officer, of course there are incompetent people as in any workplace but most of them have had to be promoted several times in competitive interviews conducted by interview panels and relating to job specifications in highly competitive workplaces to get to their positions so far fewer incompetents than in many workplaces I would think. Re political bias everyone is politically bias, IMHO. However senior civil servants in local and central government are acutely aware that they must not let any personal political opinions effect their work and that their job is to advise politicians on the statutory position of services, and the options for implementing policy, not to try to block or undermine these. It is however in my experience a common occurrence, particularly in strongly regulated areas such as planning, for politicians who find they are being advised not to take action which may breach rules to see political bias/ blocking as the reason. They will often be suspicious of civil servants who have served previous administrations of another hue that in some way those civil servants have been 'supporters' of the previous regime but are anti the new masters. They will also blur the distinction between making policy and implementing decisions, ie get involved in trying to manage staff, which is not their job. An amusing example from my own time is that I promoted a very effective woman whose talents had been suppressed by a previous manager. She was towards the end of her career, very able and the way she dressed and spoke might be characterised as suburban English middle class. She seemed in every sense to be 'conservative', and was assumed to be, by Liberals (who ran the council) and Labour ( a minority) and Conservatives, the opposition, to be a Tory. In fact she had voted liberal all her life. Towards the end of the Liberal administration she got fed up with some off their decisions and in a rare unguarded moment declared to me that she would never vote for 'that mob' ever again and if she voted at all in future, which she thought unlikely, would be voting Labour. When the Tories took over the administration they saw me as a Liberal (I was not) and therefore they much preferred to ask her opinion and invite her to meetings rather than me, her boss. She had no time for them at all, having had in fact a fairly working class background and left wing attitudes, but for the last few years before she retired she was the Tories favourite officer. They never had a clue as to her affiliation and that usually she was less sympathetic to what they were proposing than I was. As to concerted efforts to get rid of a Minister its not unlikely given the incidents reported that word got around about the way he was behaving. Senior officers would of course discuss any challenging behaviour by politicians, just as in any workplace the difficult bosses soon get known and staff will try to avoid conflict with them. If it was really bad then I would expect there to be some discussion about complaints and the Cabinet secretary in Civil Service case might have a quiet word with the PM about their behaviour. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened in some of the recent government cases. Making a direct complaint about senior politicians was virtually impossible as they could make your work life very difficult. |
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Post by alec on Apr 25, 2023 13:54:09 GMT
Not sure if this has been covered, but it looks like the Conservatives really were looking to privatise the NHS to get a US trade deal, as Corbyn claimed - bylinetimes.com/2023/04/24/boris-johnson-and-donald-trumps-private-talks-on-privatising-the-nhs-reveal-denials-were-untrue/I'm sure this will come back one day, because we will always have the Conservative party on hand to damage the national interest, but what Brexiters who like the HS should have a wee think about is the power they allowed HMG to accrue to itself from Brexit. Ministers can agree a trade deal without any parliamentary oversight. How much do you trust tomorrow's politicians? |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 25, 2023 14:00:44 GMT
For those interested, I have just posted a paper on the covid thread with some interesting findings. Notably, they find the bivalent vaccines to have virtually no benefit at preventing infection with the XXB variants (infection only, not severity or death) and they also replicate findings from elsewhere that the more vaccine shots you get the greater your risk of infection. Interesting stuff, but complicated. Do please read before commenting. You have said similar things before, and yet when I said you agreed the repeat vaccine programs essentially had no benefit, you became abusive. re severity and death, please note at least the official death toll isnt much down last I checked on 2020, not when you factor in that treatment advances were reckoned to have at least halved the death rate. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 25, 2023 14:03:01 GMT
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Post by alec on Apr 25, 2023 14:05:41 GMT
Danny - "You have said similar things before, and yet when I said you agreed the repeat vaccine programs essentially had no benefit, you became abusive." Yes I did, because it's a f@cking stupid thing to say and a lie to boot. Find and quote wherever I have said "the repeat vaccine programs essentially had no benefit" I'll apologise to you. If you can't find such a quote, shut up.
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Post by jayblanc on Apr 25, 2023 14:11:20 GMT
Gyppos (hope that's still an acceptable term) aren't liked because most if not all are criminals. A few years ago a group moved near to where my daughter used to live. The next day every car in the neighbourhood had it's tyres slashed. By an amazing coincidence the local car spares shop had a large stock of inner tyres. This being the Black Country, the locals took action and the travellers moved on, presumably having been paid by the car shop's owner. Were they able to slash the tyres with the 'outer tyre' (if such a thing existed) unscathed? Only saw this because it was quoted but... NO IT IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN ACCEPTABLE TERM. It has only ever been used as a derogatory way of referring to Roma and Travellers (while conflating the two different groups as the same). And your follow up that "they're all criminals" makes your racism clear. Being scapegoated for local crimes has always been the sufferance of Roma. Does it not occur in your tiny minds to think about why the local car spares shop would bother to 'pay' anyone, when they could just get their kids to do it for free and blame the Roma? Does it not occur in your compressed frontal cortex, that this is what has happened for ages, a Roma presence being used to blame for anything. Lack of proper waste disposal, it was the Roma what did all that fly tipping not the local builders. Human waste in the rivers, must be the Roma not the Water Company allowing overflow. And as for crime... If the Roma had actually performed all the crimes they had been blamed for, we would be the richest people on the earth. Mark If Mercian is still on this forum tomorrow, I won't be. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 25, 2023 14:18:21 GMT
IMO we elect a government 'to get things done' (and 'all the time' not just at 'particular times') but it seems some people disagree? yes indeed. there seem to be lots of people voting to prevent things being done. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 25, 2023 14:25:43 GMT
Arrr ... poor little Tory ministers can't get anything done, because of the dreadful Blob, or the the evil liberal elite or the scary tofu-eating wokearati or something. Arrr diddums, nanny kiss it better.
Utterly pathetic. Apologies for sounding grumpy, but I have never read so much self-serving drivel as the Conservatives have produced regarding Raab the serial bully. He finally got caught; get over it.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 25, 2023 14:35:57 GMT
I thought I would attempt to recreate one of Mercian's insightful contributions via a random sentence generator
Here goes:
"I karate chopped a baseball bat in my car because the voices told me to."
On the right lines but needs more intolerance.
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Post by alec on Apr 25, 2023 15:21:09 GMT
Worth a few minutes reading - bloodcancer.org.uk/news/our-letter-to-the-uk-health-security-agency-representing-immunocompromised-people/The covid strategy we have adopted is to leave decisions on risk up to 'personal responsibility', and then remove all the data upon which such decisions can reasonably be made. The net result is that the most vulnerable in society are facing a life amounting to a choice of lockdowns without end or serious ill health and premature death. This seems to be rationalised by the majority - including some on here - as not being a particular issue as the only people affected have comorbidities already. It's an odd way to rationalise exclusion, but there you go. It's what we're hearing every day. There is a large body of people out there for whom covid has not gone away, and all the politicians, government departments and state services have simply shrugged and turned away. On any level, this lack of care is scandalous. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 25, 2023 15:37:15 GMT
The civil case of rape against Dolt 45 commences today.
A federal court in New York will begin selecting a jury on Tuesday to hear evidence that Donald Trump raped the famed advice columnist E Jean Carroll nearly three decades ago.
Carroll alleges that Trump pinned her against the wall of a New York department store and sexually assaulted her in late 1995 or early the following year as they shopped together. She brought the case last year under a New York state law opening a one-year window for adult victims of sexual assault to file civil cases after the statute of limitations has expired.
There are a dozen other potential sexual assault allegations pending against the failed mail order meat salesman.
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Post by Rafwan on Apr 25, 2023 16:25:47 GMT
I am not sure how amenable this board is to anyone who wishes to support Diane Abbott over her letter, but I want to anyway, so here goes. Her letter was not in any way antisemitic. The interpretations that have been put upon it are distortions that do not reflect what she intended.
Diane Abbott has been MP for Hackney North since 1987. She was the first black female MP and there is abundant evidence that she has suffered extensive discrimination and abuse since the outset. She has herself spoken and written movingly about this abuse and it makes my stomach turn. Additionally, Amnesty International conducted a survey of abusive tweets and found that she received almost 50% of the total sent to women MPs in the 6 weeks before the 2017 election. She received 4500; second was Emily Thornberry with 450. To dismiss her letter as antisemitic is to deny this felt experience.
Diane Abbott's constituency includes Stamford Hill which embraces the largest group of Hasidic Jews in Europe (around 15,000). Her vote has solidified over her time as MP and this could only happen with the support of this community. She has an excellent working relationship with them and is much liked. They have been quick to support her publicly when she has been accused of antisemitism. Quite simply, she could not possibly be M.P. without their support.
The widespread antipathy to her letter feeds a malign narrative that being left-wing is somehow also antisemitic. This is wrong and deeply troubling. It should be resisted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2023 16:50:11 GMT
Only saw this because it was quoted but... NO IT IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN ACCEPTABLE TERM. It has only ever been used as a derogatory way of referring to Roma and Travellers (while conflating the two different groups as the same). And your follow up that "they're all criminals" makes your racism clear. Being scapegoated for local crimes has always been the sufferance of Roma. Does it not occur in your tiny minds to think about why the local car spares shop would bother to 'pay' anyone, when they could just get their kids to do it for free and blame the Roma? Does it not occur in your compressed frontal cortex, that this is what has happened for ages, a Roma presence being used to blame for anything. Lack of proper waste disposal, it was the Roma what did all that fly tipping not the local builders. Human waste in the rivers, must be the Roma not the Water Company allowing overflow. And as for crime... If the Roma had actually performed all the crimes they had been blamed for, we would be the richest people on the earth. Mark If Mercian is still on this forum tomorrow, I won't be. I think we all knew - not least mercian when he wrote it - that it isn't and has never been an acceptable term. It's classic half-cut nocturnal mercian trolling and you've bitten. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 25, 2023 17:05:36 GMT
Arrr ... poor little Tory ministers can't get anything done, because of the dreadful Blob, or the the evil liberal elite or the scary tofu-eating wokearati or something. Arrr diddums, nanny kiss it better. Utterly pathetic. Apologies for sounding grumpy, but I have never read so much self-serving drivel as the Conservatives have produced regarding Raab the serial bully. He finally got caught; get over it. Perfectly put |
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Post by leftieliberal on Apr 25, 2023 17:41:20 GMT
I think we all knew - not least mercian when he wrote it - that it isn't and has never been an acceptable term. It's classic half-cut nocturnal mercian trolling and you've bitten. The first two points from Mark in General Rules ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/51. Hate speech (racism, misogyny, homophobia etc). is expressly forbidden. 2. No flaming or trolling other users. That's two yellow cards = a red card. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 25, 2023 18:01:55 GMT
A curse on both their houses perhaps as ABCON + ABLAB benefits LDEM?
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 25, 2023 18:05:10 GMT
Although the 'Blue Wall' are (re)discovering the 🥰 for Rishi
and Rishi leading on 9 v 7 (with 2 ties) on characteristics
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