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Post by alec on Apr 21, 2023 8:08:25 GMT
Danny - your post is almost entirely factually incorrect. You need to start to learn about the science here, rather than continue pushing false beliefs.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 21, 2023 8:14:26 GMT
1. I don't think it is ok for Starmer to conduct a factional war (and I agree he has done). 2. I don't expect far left people to vote Labour - by all means vote TUSC or Green or abstain. I would never ask anyone to vote against their conscience and it will have minimal impact on the result anyway, given the only areas where they are substantial numbers of far left voters are big cities which vote Labour anyway BUT 3. This version of the Tory party is literally destroying the public realm of the country (see our NHS, rivers, roads, anything you care to mention really). They are corrupt, immoral and have strong leanings toward becoming an anti-democratic and authoritarian party along the lines of the US Republicans, engaging in vote and electoral system rigging and endless culture wars directed at vulnerable groups. It is an urgent moral imperative to remove them from power. SO 4. Don't be a Tory enabler. If you can't support the opposition then ignore them and use your energies attacking the government That's all I ask of the left. If you help the Tories then you are culpable in what will follow. Remember the thousands of innocent people killed by Tory austerity. Some of you have a visceral hatred of the Conservatives and will vote for a donkey if that is the alternative. Some of us on the other hand vote positively for what we believe in. You clearly find this hard to understand, as your emotion doesn't work that way. But successful politics does require you to acknowledge and act on the fact that not everyone thinks like you. I'd have a visceral hatred for any party that showed such dangerously low levels of respect for the rule of law and democratic norms, the things needed to keep democracy healthy and respected. For any party that will happily vilify and cause suffering for the vulnerable for the sake of a couple of percentage points in the polls. For any party that over the decade or more has sought to undermine and destroy EVERYTHING that I once valued about this country. Do you not? Or, at the risk of invoking Godwin, would you, in Germany, in 1933 have said 'some of you have a visceral hatred of the national socialists. I want the SPD to offer me something I can vote positively for however.' I'm coming to the conclusion that those of us who are ABCON and those who think they need to be wooed by a party that will say it will deliver their Christmas present list have brains that are wired very differently. The later attitude strikes me as somewhat self-important and indulgent. Does Starmer need to stand in the street below your windows with a lute singing a lilting melody of committing to renationalisation of utilities? Would that make you feel loved enough? |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 21, 2023 8:14:49 GMT
PJ’s use of data is a bit scary too. Like when he cites data saying Cancer, Cardiovascular are worse than Covid, without taking into account your prior point that Covid may cause or exacerbate such things, and it may feed through worse in future. Alec has been unable to produce any evidence that this is happening. If you take certain datasets of people who have had bad covid, you find higher risks for other diseases. But firstly this isnt even proven to have been caused by covid, second the effects on the whole population are not significant. You cannot project the consequences (even if real not simply correlations) to the entire population who never did get significantly sick with covid (whether infected or not) and who therefore arent likely to have any consequences.
In 2020 people were denied treatment for covid because it was anticipated there would be vastly more severe cases than actually happened. They were deliberately left to die untreated. That was BECAUSE action was planned on false assumptions that the epidemic would be worse than it was. Exaggerating harm can be deadly.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 21, 2023 8:19:57 GMT
Sunak to announce his decision over Raab's future.
As soon as Dominic stops pushing his head down the toilet!
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Post by shevii on Apr 21, 2023 8:50:08 GMT
Try googling "how many people did the benefit cuts kill". I'm staggered how many on this site don't seem to give a damn about the vulnerable people who will suffer under a Tory government. It's not that people don't give a damn it's that we don't see it being any better under Labour. I literally don't see it being any better under this Labour and in the meantime Labour has bedded in right wing politics for years to come that prevents anything getting better. It's hugely depressing and it's worth campaigning to prevent. Had LOC not been voting Labour as the lesser of two evils and had Labour not had these poll leads then Labour would be forced to change course. There's an article this morning in the Times which is paywalled but the headline quote I can see is Streeting saying money is not the answer to the NHS and it needs "reform". We have a shadow chancellor who in her past life said Labour will be tougher on benefits than the Tories (ie the most vulnerable). Streeting is talking about clearing some of the waiting lists using private healthcare which we've talked about before on here as just encouraging more NHS to work privately with a higher cost to the NHS in the long run and no further forward with clearing the waiting lists anyway. He's taking donations from people heavily involved in private healthcare. There's always "reform" to be achieved in any organisation and NHS does engage in reform on a regular basis but reform forced by governments who know less about the issues than the people working in those organisations (and Streeting clearly doesn't) wastes valuable time. Education has found out over the years where more time is spent working out things like academy proposals than there is a focus on educating children. The only proposal I've seen from Labour for investment in the heath service is via increased taxes from Nom Dom which quite frankly isn't guaranteed to raise a penny and will no doubt get watered down. Even then it's mostly about training more doctors and nurses when retention is the issue and to my mind this is only done via terms and conditions (wages) which ultimately means substantial payrises (the 35% only taking them back to 2010 real pay levels). There's no evidence Labour will do anything like this and their response to pay demands is a) to say 35% is not affordable, b) to accept government biased pay review bodies recommendations, c) to not even give any indication of what they might pay to fix the problem and d) to oppose the strikes. Last time NHS pay review came up Tories actually beat the Labour "more than 3%" "offer", just as they have now beaten the Labour minimum wage offer which is yet to be updated. I doubt I'm any more left wing that you or alec are and I can totally understand and respect your views and the views of others on the forum that anything is better than this. Our differences are based on me not thinking any of the things you may expect from Labour are going to happen. For a long time this was going through my mind as well whenever I could justify not voting Labour, but as time has gone by and the Labour agenda has become more transparent it's reached a level where I can't see things getting any better under Labour. This isn't the same Labour Party as under Blair who had money to spend from a benign economy and did spend that money. However much I disagreed with Blair I could see some arguable improvements (if at the long term damage to an economy based on house prices rises and PFI investment and more limited privatisation). Reeves is committed to fiscal conservatism and austerity lite and none of them have made any commitment to improving life for the most vulnerable in society. Also this get the Tories out and then we can campaign within Labour for change in policy might have been valid before it became clear, with the purges, that the Labour leadership was fixing the rules to prevent members ever having that sort of influence ever again. I could grumpily have stayed in the Labour Party had it not become clear that my membership meant nothing. If I vote for a candidate they can get blocked and voting for a leader will be a carefully managed affair to not give a full range of choice. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 21, 2023 8:52:46 GMT
Sunak to announce his decision over Raab's future. As soon as Dominic stops pushing his head down the toilet! A few Dominics have been giving us a bad name of late. First Cummings, now this guy. Grieve was OK I suppose.. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Apr 21, 2023 8:54:12 GMT
Raabs gone
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 21, 2023 8:54:38 GMT
Try googling "how many people did the benefit cuts kill". I'm staggered how many on this site don't seem to give a damn about the vulnerable people who will suffer under a Tory government. It's not that people don't give a damn it's that we don't see it being any better under Labour. I literally don't see it being any better under this Labour and in the meantime Labour has bedded in right wing politics for years to come that prevents anything getting better. It's hugely depressing and it's worth campaigning to prevent. Had LOC not been voting Labour as the lesser of two evils and had Labour not had these poll leads then Labour would be forced to change course. There's an article this morning in the Times which is paywalled but the headline quote I can see is Streeting saying money is not the answer to the NHS and it needs "reform". We have a shadow chancellor who in her past life said Labour will be tougher on benefits than the Tories (ie the most vulnerable). Streeting is talking about clearing some of the waiting lists using private healthcare which we've talked about before on here as just encouraging more NHS to work privately with a higher cost to the NHS in the long run and no further forward with clearing the waiting lists anyway. He's taking donations from people heavily involved in private healthcare. There's always "reform" to be achieved in any organisation and NHS does engage in reform on a regular basis but reform forced by governments who know less about the issues than the people working in those organisations (and Streeting clearly doesn't) wastes valuable time. Education has found out over the years where more time is spent working out things like academy proposals than there is a focus on educating children. The only proposal I've seen from Labour for investment in the heath service is via increased taxes from Nom Dom which quite frankly isn't guaranteed to raise a penny and will no doubt get watered down. Even then it's mostly about training more doctors and nurses when retention is the issue and to my mind this is only done via terms and conditions (wages) which ultimately means substantial payrises (the 35% only taking them back to 2010 real pay levels). There's no evidence Labour will do anything like this and their response to pay demands is a) to say 35% is not affordable, b) to accept government biased pay review bodies recommendations, c) to not even give any indication of what they might pay to fix the problem and d) to oppose the strikes. Last time NHS pay review came up Tories actually beat the Labour "more than 3%" "offer", just as they have now beaten the Labour minimum wage offer which is yet to be updated. I doubt I'm any more left wing that you or alec are and I can totally understand and respect your views and the views of others on the forum that anything is better than this. Our differences are based on me not thinking any of the things you may expect from Labour are going to happen. For a long time this was going through my mind as well whenever I could justify not voting Labour, but as time has gone by and the Labour agenda has become more transparent it's reached a level where I can't see things getting any better under Labour. This isn't the same Labour Party as under Blair who had money to spend from a benign economy and did spend that money. However much I disagreed with Blair I could see some arguable improvements (if at the long term damage to an economy based on house prices rises and PFI investment and more limited privatisation). Reeves is committed to fiscal conservatism and austerity lite and none of them have made any commitment to improving life for the most vulnerable in society. Also this get the Tories out and then we can campaign within Labour for change in policy might have been valid before it became clear, with the purges, that the Labour leadership was fixing the rules to prevent members ever having that sort of influence ever again. I could grumpily have stayed in the Labour Party had it not become clear that my membership meant nothing. If I vote for a candidate they can get blocked and voting for a leader will be a carefully managed affair to not give a full range of choice. "we don't see it being any better under Labour" - Come on, seriously? Was it not much better before 2010, especially for children? And Starmer would likely be more activist than that. I imagine Brown would be back on board in some advisory capacity. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 21, 2023 8:56:23 GMT
During the 1930s, the Daily Mail supported the rise of fascism, running many headlines and editorials in support of fascist regimes, especially those in Germany and Italy. Lord Rothermere, the owner of the Daily Mail at the time, was friends with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini and deliberately guided the newspaper to support them. The support extended to fascism in the UK, with advocacy of British fascism declared in one of the newspaper’s most famous articles, ‘Hurrah for the Blackshirts!’.
Rothermere, owner of the Daily Mail and author of the article, praised Mosley and the Blackshirts seeing them as the correct party to “take over responsibility for [British] national affairs”.
Not only did this positive reporting gain them exclusive access to publish interviews with Hitler, it also earned Lord Rothermere and his son a place at the dinner table as honoured guests of Hitler himself.
As late as 1938 the Mail was still praising the deportation of Jewish refugees.
This from an article that year.
"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."
In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.
The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.
Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.
Substitute Asylum seeker or young Pakistani man for Jew and the language of our xenophobic regime and of course the Mail haven't changed.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 21, 2023 9:00:43 GMT
Raab resigns but couldn't resist the opportunity for victim blaming in his cringe worthy resignation whinge.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 21, 2023 9:23:29 GMT
neiljThat resignation letter is terrible. He is basically telling the world he was innocent before anyone has had a chance to read the report and see for themselves. The people who work for him are snowflakes who can't take any criticism, yet there have been persistent talk of bullying since Raab became a minister. Seems he was told if he steps down now, he gets to say it was nothing serious and he can come back in six months or so in a reshuffle. What a bunch of cynical pricks.
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Post by wb61 on Apr 21, 2023 9:31:35 GMT
neilj That resignation letter is terrible. He is basically telling the world he was innocent before anyone has had a chance to read the report and see for themselves. The people who work for him are snowflakes who can't take any criticism, yet there have been persistent talk of bullying since Raab became a minister. Seems he was told if he steps down now, he gets to say it was nothing serious and he can come back in six months or so in a reshuffle. What a bunch of cynical pricks. Really, six months, you think it will be that long? |
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 21, 2023 9:37:25 GMT
wb61Well at least 6 days! "Lib Dems says Raab should resign as MP The Liberal Democrats say Dominic Raab should now resign as an MP. This is from Daisy Cooper, the party’s deputy leader. Dominic Raab has shown he is not only unfit to serve as a minister, but is totally unfit to represent his constituents in parliament. He should resign as an MP and trigger a byelection so the people of Esher and Walton can finally have the MP they deserve. Voters across Surrey and the blue w are fed up with this endless Conservative chaos and MPs who take their communities for granted. At the next election in Esher and Walton, it will be a two horse race between more Conservative party chaos or a hardworking Liberal Democrat MP who will listen and stand up for local people." General election 2019: Esher and Walton Conservative Dominic Raab 31,132 49.4% Decrease 9.2 Liberal Democrats Monica Harding 28,389 45.0% Increase 27.7 Labour Peter Ashurst 2,838 4.5% Decrease 15.2 Sadly not a chance of his electorate getting a human being as their mp until the next general election, got to be a top change for the lib dems whenever there's an election.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 21, 2023 9:37:55 GMT
Try googling "how many people did the benefit cuts kill". I'm staggered how many on this site don't seem to give a damn about the vulnerable people who will suffer under a Tory government. It's not that people don't give a damn it's that we don't see it being any better under Labour. I literally don't see it being any better under this Labour and in the meantime Labour has bedded in right wing politics for years to come that prevents anything getting better. It's hugely depressing and it's worth campaigning to prevent. But you don't prevent it. All you do is get increasingly right wing Tory governments forever. You will note that core Tory voters (say c30-33% of the population) happily voted for Cameron's 2010 social liberalism and Johnson's 2019 populist authoritarianism without all this angst, indeed likely without even a second thought. They vote Tory regardless of what it is offering at the time. That's the reality that has to be overcome. Just to say as a footnote, that the real villain here is FPTP. Under a PR system everyone could vote exactly as they thought best and know their vote has a chance of counting. |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Apr 21, 2023 9:39:39 GMT
On the whole on-line left attacks on Starmer, and Labour are 'no different to the Tories', its a classic voter suppression tactic. In the 2016 US election, the on-line campaign teams/companies/Russia working for the Trump campaign targeted Bernie Saunders and black voters with content along the lines of Hilary was in the pocket of Wall Street, and no different to the Republicans etc. - now Clinton wasn't perfect but was a whole lot better than Trump.
These campaigns are targeted at the likes of me, to get me either to abstain or vote for another party such as the Greens - and some of the content will come from the left but pushed by the right, some will be created/fabricated by the right - but personally I do see that Labour is a much better option than the Tories. Others may decide to abstain or vote for another Party because Labour aren't left-wing enough etc - that is their right. From the perspective of my own conscience I would not be able to live with myself if I abstained and the Tories won. I may feel very differently after one term of disappointment with a Labour government - but another 4-5 years of Tory rule would be unbearable.
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 21, 2023 9:44:34 GMT
Dominic Raab latest: Deputy PM 'keeps word' and quitsnews.sky.com/story/politics-latest-pm-to-give-major-speech-in-belfast-as-the-snp-fears-sturgeon-arrest-is-imminent-12593360?I doubt that was an easy decision for Rishi but 25hrs is a reasonable window to allow Raab to 'resign' rather than force Rishi to sack him. TBC if there is any other 'skeletons' to be thrown out of the closet elsewhere within Team Rishi but Rishi can now keep the moral high ground that Starmer abandoned with his racist personal attacks on Rishi and Rishi's family. Certainly a change from the 'Owen Goal' approach of Boris trying to protect Paterson. Unlikely to be any VI impact but Rishi has broken a potential 'stick' that LAB could used have against CON, which is now "under new management".
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Apr 21, 2023 9:54:18 GMT
"It will encourage spurious complaints against ministers, and have a chilling effect on those driving change on behalf of your government - and ultimately the British people."
Mmmm, by 'British people' I assume he means the 29.4% of the British electorate that voted Tory in 2019. Maybe it could be argued that the Civil Servants have in mind the 70.6% who didn't vote Tory and that a Government should govern for ALL the population, not just those that support them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 9:58:33 GMT
Dominic Raab latest: Deputy PM 'keeps word' and quitsnews.sky.com/story/politics-latest-pm-to-give-major-speech-in-belfast-as-the-snp-fears-sturgeon-arrest-is-imminent-12593360?I doubt that was an easy decision for Rishi but 25hrs is a reasonable window to allow Raab to 'resign' rather than force Rishi to sack him. TBC if there is any other 'skeletons' to be thrown out of the closet elsewhere within Team Rishi but Rishi can now keep the moral high ground that Starmer abandoned with his racist personal attacks on Rishi and Rishi's family. Certainly a change from the 'Owen Goal' approach of Boris trying to protect Paterson. Unlikely to be any VI impact but Rishi has broken a potential 'stick' that LAB could used have against CON, which is now "under new management". I agree. But Sunak has now made a judgement-on the basis of the "facts" presented by the KC about DR-about the balance between a Minister's right to manage civil servant performance rigorously , and their right to respect in the workplace. Good luck to him on that one ! |
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Apr 21, 2023 10:01:46 GMT
It's not that people don't give a damn it's that we don't see it being any better under Labour. I literally don't see it being any better under this Labour and in the meantime Labour has bedded in right wing politics for years to come that prevents anything getting better. It's hugely depressing and it's worth campaigning to prevent. But you don't prevent it. All you do is get increasingly right wing Tory governments forever. You will note that core Tory voters (say c30-33% of the population) happily voted for Cameron's 2010 social liberalism and Johnson's 2019 populist authoritarianism without all this angst, indeed likely without even a second thought. They vote Tory regardless of what it is offering at the time. That's the reality that has to be overcome. Just to say as a footnote, that the real villain here is FPTP. Under a PR system everyone could vote exactly as they thought best and know their vote has a chance of counting. , I have a lot of sympathy with shevii on this. What slightly baffles me is that the Tory's manage their 'right-wing' in a manner that tends to keep those types of voters on board, adopting policies from that wing of the party that in many areas have broader electoral appeal. Many of the positions held by the left are similarly popular with the electorate, but you don't currently see the Starmer leadership adopting them, to the contrary they seem to be jettisoning them.
Prior to the 80/90's the Party and its leadership did a relatively better job in managing the relationship with the left; but since then there seems to be a Madelsonian obsession, held by many on the right of the party, that you can only win by attacking the left. Personally, I think it is counter-productive and plays into the hands of the Tories. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 21, 2023 10:07:31 GMT
On the subject of local elections, unbeknownst to me at the time but I had a Labour Party canvasser ring my doorbell yesterday. This is a reasonably closely contested ward and they seem to be giving it a bit of a push. Unfortunately, I didn't answer as I had just got out of the shower so got a leaflet through the door instead. A bit of a shame as I'd have liked to have had a chat. It did get me thinking a bit though - I might be pretty disaffected with national politics at the moment, but I think this is probably compounded at a local level by not having much direct engagement (don't think I've ever had anyone at the door before) and not really knowing what the key issues/bones of contention might be locally. Other than getting a council tax bill through and the bins being collected I don't tend to notice much in the way of what the council are or aren't doing. I don't know if this is partly due to personal circumstances of not having to use a lot of local services/not having lived here for very long/knowing very few people who live in the same council area. I suspect it's all a bit situation dependent but it does always slightly surprise me when canvassers say "x local issue is what people care about on the doorstep" because I don't think I'd have the first clue about most local developments round my way. I think the decline of local newspapers probably feeds into this - once a crucial source of local news, so many are either gone completely or online only with a small team covering a wider geographical area who don't seem to have the capacity to do much more than churn out press releases or clickbait, and most of them are part of the Reach Plc stable with their near-unnavigable ad-filled websites. Bit of a shame really as I've always considered local democracy important. Makes me wonder how common an experience this is. The only local issue I am aware of locally, off hand, was a free sheet recently which headlined Huw Merriman supporting using the redundant Bexhill prison to house refugees. Which isnt much to do with the local council anyway, and is maybe an example why no one pays attention to their doings. That the most significant local event recently is actually central government controlled. Hastings has in the past been the recipient of various undesireables the government needs to house somewhere, and considering the SE of England, its as cheap as it gets.
Aside from that, Bexhill recently had paid parking imposed upon it where prviously mostly it had free on street parking. I didnt actually see any party opposing that, they all seemed to like the extra revenue for some reason. Again, very unimpressive, but hardly pushing towards support for any party, they are all the same. A number of areas seem to have residents associations fielding candiates because they believe the established parties are quite pointless.
Its an outrage that local councils need to resort to fleecing their residents and destroying business locally by imposing parking charges, but again this is outside their control. So what does it matter -usually - who you vote for or dont. There was some publicity recently where councils were cutting down trees to enable redevelopment, against massive local opposition. As far as you could tell, all parties seemed united in wanting to cut the trees in opposition to their constituents. So which devil could you choose?
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Post by shevii on Apr 21, 2023 10:09:15 GMT
But you don't prevent it. All you do is get increasingly right wing Tory governments forever. You will note that core Tory voters (say c30-33% of the population) happily voted for Cameron's 2010 social liberalism and Johnson's 2019 populist authoritarianism without all this angst, indeed likely without even a second thought. They vote Tory regardless of what it is offering at the time. That's the reality that has to be overcome. Just to say as a footnote, that the real villain here is FPTP. Under a PR system everyone could vote exactly as they thought best and know their vote has a chance of counting. We got those increasingly right wing Tory governments in spite of having a period of Labour rule, precisely because Labour did not shift the axis enough. Cameron/Osborne were worse than Major for example from day 1. Even though Cameron presented a face of being more centrist the actual austerity he delivered was the worst ever seen and tanked the economy in the process. Sunak is to be confirmed and I have no doubt he is probably about where Osborne was (him and Lawson being the worst Chancellors I have ever seen in my lifetime) but agree that the majority of the influential Tories are now rabidly right wing, just that some may now have realised there are limits imposed on them even if simply by "the markets". Totally agree on PR which will change the electoral landscape to more LOC I think, although not without risks for a far right surge as we have seen in some European countries. More than that it will offer a more honest policy platform for parties who are not trying to attract voters who they should have nothing in common with in the first place. Also what I vote matters not one difference ever, either on a local or national level- I could change a councillor or two but it won't make up a difference to who runs the council and Wigan is unlikely to ever be anything other than Labour without huge demographic change given they didn't follow Leigh's probably one off vote in 2019. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Apr 21, 2023 10:10:57 GMT
neilj That resignation letter is terrible. He is basically telling the world he was innocent before anyone has had a chance to read the report and see for themselves. The people who work for him are snowflakes who can't take any criticism, yet there have been persistent talk of bullying since Raab became a minister. Seems he was told if he steps down now, he gets to say it was nothing serious and he can come back in six months or so in a reshuffle. What a bunch of cynical pricks. Really, six months, you think it will be that long? First we have to have the May elections which will kill Sunak's reputation as someone who can save the Tories from the consequences of their actions, then the Privileges Committee has to decide that Boris Johnson deserves less than a 10-day suspension, so there is no recall motion, then enough Tory MPs have to demand a new leadership election, in which people like Braverman as well as Johnson will throw their hats in the ring, so Boris Johnson cannot really become PM again until Parliament meets in September after the Summer Recess (don't forget that when Sunak was crowned as leader, Johnson did have the support of over 100 MPs but chose not to stand). A reshuffle is normally the first thing that a new Prime Minister does (back in the 19th Century it was quite common for MPs to be Prime Minister two or three times during their career www.gov.uk/government/history/past-prime-ministers. Gladstone was PM four times.) |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 21, 2023 10:18:44 GMT
Bit of a long read but an insight (albeit biased of course) into some of the local issues in one district in NW.Essex (next to Braintree - which gets a mention in the piece) conservativehome.com/2023/04/18/the-local-elections-national-planning-requirements-clash-in-rural-essex-with-what-voters-want/The 'planning' issue is pretty complex but 'No Plan'* is currently the worst thing a council can do as the 'big builders' who like to build the wrong houses in the wrong places can overturn NIMBY council decisions using the 'No Plan' argument at appeal. Smaller, local builders are also turned down but usually don't even bother anymore as the whole process for a small builder is too time and money consuming. So the irony is that in places that voted in the most NIMBY option have ended up getting more of the 'wrong' kind of development in their district/borough. I fully accept that a lot of the local plans are 💩but for the NIMBY types (who usually GOTV in areas chez nous) then they'll have to learn the hard way that a 'bad plan' is better than 'no plan'. TBC but those who kicked out CON a while back might return to the 'better' NIMBY option. Note in 2019 that CON% dropped by about the same as R4U went up and CON certainly seem confident they can win back some seats from the failed Arch-NIMBY Inds. That was NIMBY-CON voters moving to what they thought would be even more NIMBY-Inds. Still a lot of CON run districts/boroughs that might need to learn their own lesson the hard way by voting in Inds/LDEM and adopting a 'No Plan' approach they'll likely end up with more of the wrong houses built in their area (s-l-o-w... h-a-n-d... c-l-a-p) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Uttlesford_District_Council_election* See: Government confirms planning punishment for Uttlesford District Council |
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Post by moby on Apr 21, 2023 10:22:40 GMT
The sheep will always sing whatever song they are taught to sing. Yes, I keep banging on about how labour is failing to lead any of the sheep to the left. It refuses to campaign for many issues it supposedly supports and so leaves those sheep to wander. I keep telling you, leave the sheep alone! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 10:23:41 GMT
I think Raab's seat is toast anyway at the next election so he's probably already on the hunt for something else to be shit at.
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Post by John Chanin on Apr 21, 2023 10:25:56 GMT
Some of you have a visceral hatred of the Conservatives and will vote for a donkey if that is the alternative. Some of us on the other hand vote positively for what we believe in. You clearly find this hard to understand, as your emotion doesn't work that way. But successful politics does require you to acknowledge and act on the fact that not everyone thinks like you. I'm coming to the conclusion that those of us who are ABCON and those who think they need to be wooed by a party that will say it will deliver their Christmas present list have brains that are wired very differently. That was exactly my point, and I'm glad that you can at least agree with it. I don't hold the view that Conservatives are deluded and demonic - for the most part they are acting in the public interest as they see it, even if in my view their sight is distorted. I don't think the present Labour party is promoting the public interest either as they see it, or in my view at all. |
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Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
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Post by Mr Poppy on Apr 21, 2023 10:28:01 GMT
Dominic Raab latest: Deputy PM 'keeps word' and quitsnews.sky.com/story/politics-latest-pm-to-give-major-speech-in-belfast-as-the-snp-fears-sturgeon-arrest-is-imminent-12593360?I doubt that was an easy decision for Rishi but 25hrs is a reasonable window to allow Raab to 'resign' rather than force Rishi to sack him. TBC if there is any other 'skeletons' to be thrown out of the closet elsewhere within Team Rishi but Rishi can now keep the moral high ground that Starmer abandoned with his racist personal attacks on Rishi and Rishi's family. Certainly a change from the 'Owen Goal' approach of Boris trying to protect Paterson. Unlikely to be any VI impact but Rishi has broken a potential 'stick' that LAB could used have against CON, which is now "under new management". I agree. But Sunak has now made a judgement-on the basis of the "facts" presented by the KC about DR-about the balance between a Minister's right to manage civil servant performance rigorously , and their right to respect in the workplace. Good luck to him on that one ! I take Raab's point about a 'precedent' but he said he'd resign if he was found to have been 'bullying' and he has. If he tried to stay on then Rishi would have had to sack him. The 'low productivity' issue within the civil service will need to be a fight for another day - CON HMG lost a battle and a general has died on the sword but the war against 'low productivity' will continue (until Starmer-LAB get in and Sue Gray can look after her own with Whitehall taking back (even more) control) |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 21, 2023 10:29:49 GMT
I'd have a visceral hatred for any party that showed such dangerously low levels of respect for the rule of law and democratic norms, the things needed to keep democracy healthy and respected. For any party that will happily vilify and cause suffering for the vulnerable for the sake of a couple of percentage points in the polls. For any party that over the decade or more has sought to undermine and destroy EVERYTHING that I once valued about this country. As I keep mentioning, been watching 'the crown'. Which is a rough approximation in period costume and props of the major events of the reign of QE2. It occurs to me that what you and indeed i value about this country was in fact something of a historical abberation. Caused by two disastrous massive wars in Europe in quick succession, which caused a revolt of the population, forcing politicians to act in the interest of the common man. Above is discussion how both Heath and Wilson were left of current politicians. Well, cometh the hour cometh the man. They were what they were because voters insisted. But now we have enjoyed the fruits of that revolution and relapsed back to more traditional aristocratic patterns of government. Brexit intended to restore british sovereignty? restore the empire? An utter dream, but part of this theme park mirage which somehow pines for a return to the good old days, which were in fact so awful the nation revolted against them. Both lab and con now labour mightily to ensure their grasp on power remains unchallenged, and do so by pandering to established wealth, as has been the historic norm. |
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Post by moby on Apr 21, 2023 10:29:53 GMT
I don't think LEs should directly link to national VI but I appreciate folks do the comparisons anyway. So for Bullsmoor (Enfield), not too far from moi, then council by-election result (difference to EC's ward prediction) LAB: 55.8% (-10.5%) CON: 36.2% (+16.9%) Green: 4.3% (+0.3%) LDEM: 2.6% (-1.7%) ... www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Enfield%20NorthObviously a much lager sample of seats coming up soon. Enfield was impacted by the ULEZ changes back in 2021 so perhaps not a good example - although the ULEZ was supposed to be popular with Londoners as a whole, then probably less popular with the newly impacted folks enfielddispatch.co.uk/londons-low-emissions-zone-arriving-in-enfield/I've already explained yesterday, there were other local factors in play; the Labour Council in Enfield is currently very unpopular due to planning decisions to sell local 'green belt land including Whitewebbs Golf course to Tottenham Football Club. This land is in the Bullsmoor area. governance.enfield.gov.uk/mgEPetitionDisplay.aspx?id=229&TPID=78764226I'm aware you won't see this but other posters will. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 10:31:01 GMT
I agree. But Sunak has now made a judgement-on the basis of the "facts" presented by the KC about DR-about the balance between a Minister's right to manage civil servant performance rigorously , and their right to respect in the workplace. Good luck to him on that one ! I take Raab's point about a 'precedent' but he said he'd resign if he was found to have been 'bullying' and he has. If he tried to stay on then Rishi would have had to sack him. The 'low productivity' issue within the civil service will need to be a fight for another day - CON HMG lost a battle and a general has died on the sword but the war against 'low productivity' will continue (until Starmer-LAB get in and Sue Gray can look after her own with Whitehall taking back (even more) control) Yeah ! |
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