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Post by alec on Nov 27, 2022 19:18:23 GMT
jimjam - was going to say very similar myself. 'Freedom of movement' has a distinct legal meaning, in practical terms. That doesn't stop all sorts of liberalisation of movement, but without the SM rules. Mark - my guess is that this follows a well established pattern. This is mood music; removing the fear of a change, because Labour is a 'safe pair of hands'. You do this a long way out, and establish the over arching narrative. Nearer the time, I'd expect to see the more positive announcements you will be looking for. You won't get everything you want - we never do - but this is part of the game politicians need to play in a FPTP system.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 27, 2022 19:33:06 GMT
Well that might quite often be the case Danny!! (And quite often both sides tell some porkies) But dont you think this is precisely why political parties are so universally despised, and also why they can no longer command an actual majority despite FPP forcing voters to choose between just two parties? Polling might ask who people intend to vote for but its deeply mistaken to say those voters support the party they choose. Its like being asked whether you want to be treated by Dr frankenstein or Dr Jekyl. Well I don’t know about universally despised, and some people quite like the tribal aspect. But true, esp. given fptp, it’s possible that someone might vote for a party despite hating much of its manifesto, which is not much of a mandate: it’s just that they hate the manifesto of a rival party more. (Although of course people may vote for local representatives rather than a manifesto, and that representative may not be keen on parts of the manifesto anyway). Some of course bypass some of the the concerns presented by party politics, e.g. via single issue politics. |
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Post by mercian on Nov 27, 2022 19:35:04 GMT
Hmm... world so f***ed up that Starmer doesn't fancy having a crack at governing and instead wants the Tories/other parties to stay in power forever and own it?
Or b) he was speaking to the Mail in the vain hope that only their readers would pick it up.
Either way, I'm a bit confused by it all to be honest.
It's very possible we're simply repeating the period before the 1997 election where everyone was saying Blair was taking the stances he did in order to get in and then things would be different and actually what you saw with Blair pre 1997 is exactly what you got post 1997. Having said this, with Starmer who knows? He told so many lies to get elected as Labour leader (topically to "defend free movement as we leave the EU") he could be telling a whole load more lies now. How can you tell when a lawyer's lying? His lips are moving. How can you tell when a politician's lying? His lips are moving. As Starmer is both, I suggest we take his pronouncements with a pinch of salt. |
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Post by alec on Nov 27, 2022 19:37:43 GMT
On so many levels, everything is really about your perspective -
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jib
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Post by jib on Nov 27, 2022 19:43:46 GMT
A rare foray to explain. Free Movement in the EU context is a specific part of Single Market membership so if one is not rejoining the single market one is not going to have free movement. 'Easy' movement for musicians, other artists and young people would be the aim in the first 2 years or so of a Labour Government. Possibly other groups as well but you get the idea? No wish to argue just saying what the position is. I suspect the musician issue should be relatively easy to address once a more cooperative spirit is established - surely this is a "service" in any case. I would also like to see rights of extended access beyond the 90 / 180 rule extended to buyers of residential property. This will all follow via "mini deals" and favourable interpretation. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 27, 2022 19:55:24 GMT
Woohoo!! (Is there a catch though? OMG, what if there’s a catch??) I can't see any catch. UK has been deemed the best place for a chunk of ESA* programmes - simples. It's certainly not my area of expertise but I thought you'd like it and maybe be able to post more info on some of the specifics. We left the EU, we did not leave Europe  To reply to your other posts: ONSHORE WINDFARMS. I expect there is a lot of 'NIMBY' opposition from CON MPs which isn't quite the same thing as 'ideological' opposition. A lot of CON MPs represent areas highly prone to NIMBYism and hence why it is a shame that HoC has such a partisan culture. I would expect most Sir Keir and vast majority of LAB MPs would back onshore windfarms and if Rishi kicks the can they will happen anyway, just with a bit more of an avoidable delay. FOREIGN STUDENTS. IMO they should be excluded from the headline and reported separately. It is quite separate to 'jobs' as only 18% end up staying/coming back via work visas and in most cases those jobs are in high quality 'value-add' areas. You don't come to UK and spend £10,000s on a degree and living expenses for 3yr+ in order to just drive an HGV, etc. Good point about 'cosmopolitan' as most unis are in cities and judging by the unis I've visited in the last few years most unis have been built a load of high density housing for students (ie the right housing in the right places). Shame on Rishi and Braverman if they conflate the 'graduate farm' issue of crap courses for English** students with immigration. * Not quite as many countries as the European Song Contest but the list of 22 and 23rd Canada: www.esa.int/About_Us/Corporate_news/Member_States_Cooperating_States** Education is devolved. Regarding the “catch”, often pro-UK stuff elicits some complaint there’s a catch, though some catches may be a bigger deal than others. (On this occasion, the headline is a bit suss, possibly suggesting we had secured some funding from eisewhere, but it’s a positive we are involved in these programmes). I did find it interesting to read of the different things we are involved in: weather and climate satellites obvs., but also initiatives to clear up the space junk, the Rosalind Franklin Mars Rover and Artemis etc., and was particularly taken with doing more to pursue solar power generated in space, and “creating radioisotope heat and power systems derived from nuclear waste, to fuel a new generation of missions”. (An isotope of plutonium is often used for this and is in short supply, which is a shame, as for long missions, energy from radioactive decay is an efficient, longer-lasting energy source). Regarding onshore wind farms, this was in the Telegraph yesterday: “Michael Gove's support for onshore wind farms fuels Tory rebellion Grant Shapps, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss also among Conservatives who have called for end of ban, increasing pressure on Rishi Sunak” re: Unis, it’s possible the rise of apprenticeships may increasingly challenge some of the less-wonderous degree courses, but we shall see. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 20:23:11 GMT
I would also like to see rights of extended access beyond the 90 / 180 rule extended to buyers of residential property. Not entirely sure if I fully understand this sentence, and apologies if not, but do you mean you want people who have enough money to buy property abroad to be allowed to live abroad as long as they want? Whereas poorer people who can't afford to buy property (mortgage? outright?) should not be able to? |
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Nov 27, 2022 20:32:38 GMT
A rare foray to explain. Free Movement in the EU context is a specific part of Single Market membership so if one is not rejoining the single market one is not going to have free movement. 'Easy' movement for musicians, other artists and young people would be the aim in the first 2 years or so of a Labour Government. Possibly other groups as well but you get the idea? No wish to argue just saying what the position is. Assuming the European Council/Commission agree. They could just as easily think, your public are now strongly in favour of regaining the four freedoms, so until you have the bottle to tell them that's what you're going to ask for we can simply refuse to agree with your suggestions. We can now see that they hold all the cards. They may see it is in their interest to let us stew in our own mess for a couple more years until they start playing good cop again. If they say no, what can we do?
They've already said they don't want a Swiss-type deal, but one large deal. And they are not stupid, but more to the point they can read English!!!
I think it's a bit presumtuous to say Starmer wants this so this is what he'll get.
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Post by graham on Nov 27, 2022 20:34:49 GMT
The way things are going, I really, really can't see myself voting Labour at the next GE. I live in a safe seat so don't need to worry about letting the tories in, but, even so. Many of the floated Lab ideas/noises, from ruling out free movement, ID regarding elections and the 'naming and shaming' of those that buy a bit of weed run counter to what I would like to see. Ok, maybe I'm not the typical UK voter (if there is such a thing), but, I can't be the only one that is seriously being put off by the noises I'm hearing. I can empathasise with much of that and have expressed my own concerns over the last 18 months or so. To be frank, Brexit has never held much salience for me- and I always held a middle of the road position on the issue whilst having little time for the ardent campaigners on both sides. I did in fact vote Leave - because I came to the view that denying Cameron a political victory was paramount in the context of the style of politics being foisted on the country by him. He had secured re-election in 2015 by scaremongering - and he tried the same trick at the London Mayoral election a year later -though he ended up with a bloody nose in May 2016. In the Brexit campaign he and Osborne were blatantly exaggerating the likely immediate consequences of a Leave vote - eg 'a severe recession within six months of such a vote' - and that persuaded me as someone with 50/50 views on the issue anyway to give priority to denying him a victory- much as I loathed the messages of Johnson, Farage et al.I never saw a Leave vote in principle as a green light to accept any Leave deal subsequently negotiated , and believe that- from the outset - there should have been a commitment to a further Confirmatory Referendum once the terms were known. Presented with a choice between Remain and Johnson's Deal I would have voted Remain - and believe the electorate would have taken the same view. However, that is now 'water under the bridge' and I do strongly suspect that Brexit has long lost its electoral salience - beyond the commentariat and political anoraks who comment here. Perhaps Starmer has now reached a similar view. If so, I am not too concerned re- the Brexit issue itself - but I share the concerns relating to the mood music on wider policy issues. After the 1992 GE I did not vote Labour again at a Parliamentary election until 2015, and I hope that fears of warmed up Blairism do not in the end force me to withold my support in 2024.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Nov 27, 2022 20:36:52 GMT
A rare foray to explain. Free Movement in the EU context is a specific part of Single Market membership so if one is not rejoining the single market one is not going to have free movement. 'Easy' movement for musicians, other artists and young people would be the aim in the first 2 years or so of a Labour Government. Possibly other groups as well but you get the idea? No wish to argue just saying what the position is. Assuming the European Council/Commission agree. They could just as easily think, your public are now strongly in favour of regaining the four freedoms, so until you have the bottle to tell them that's what you're going to ask for we can simply refuse to agree with your suggestions. We can now see that they hold all the cards. They may see it is in their interest to let us stew in our own mess for a couple more years until they start playing good cop again. If they say no, what can we do?
They've already said they don't want a Swiss-type deal, but one large deal. And they are not stupid, but more to the point they can read English!!!
I think it's a bit presumtuous to say Starmer wants this so this is what he'll get.
Yet more cakeism? This time driven by a possibly misguided 'but we're the good guys so they'll play ball with us' attitude. They'll need to prove they're the good guys by being honest with the public at some point and not being permanently afraid of brexit attacks from the Tories. I know why they do it, because those attacks eat up public attention that could be focused on other offerings but at some point the demons have to be faced down and that may need to before the election. They must have some polling that though redwallers are willing to abandon the Tories they nonetheless remain twitchy about their sacred brexit.. |
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Nov 27, 2022 20:39:18 GMT
Here's an interesting idea. Currently bus drivers in Japan are on strike. However because they don't wish to inconvenience the public they are still running a full service. They're just not collecting the fares! This is old news. It was four years ago (unless you have a link to current strike): www.bbc.com/news/world-44022004Japan bus drivers: Strikes with a difference
6 May 2018
Bus drivers in the Japanese city of Okayama are on strike, but this is no ordinary industrial dispute.
They're still working, driving around picking up passengers.
But they're not doing a key part of the job - accepting fares - as they seek greater job security in the face of stiff competition from a rival company.
The method can be questioned - after all, depriving an employer of revenue when it's fighting for its life may not be the most effective way of staying afloat.
But Japan News website says the free rides are helping the company preserve its relationship with the passengers in the face of competition. |
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Post by alec on Nov 27, 2022 20:39:43 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "Regarding the “catch”, often pro-UK stuff elicits some complaint there’s a catch, though some catches may be a bigger deal than others. (On this occasion, the headline is a bit suss, possibly suggesting we had secured some funding from eisewhere, but it’s a positive we are involved in these programmes)." I think it's also worth saying that this seems to represent a reduction in UK spending on the ESA work, compared to the last spending round, although the way the numbers have been presented makes a comparison more difficult.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 27, 2022 20:41:14 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "Regarding the “catch”, often pro-UK stuff elicits some complaint there’s a catch, though some catches may be a bigger deal than others. (On this occasion, the headline is a bit suss, possibly suggesting we had secured some funding from eisewhere, but it’s a positive we are involved in these programmes)." I think it's also worth saying that this seems to represent a reduction in UK spending on the ESA work, compared to the last spending round, although the way the numbers have been presented makes a comparison more difficult. Maybe. Although we are also opening some spaceports etc. we might even get to use some of them if the licensing gets sorted out in a more timely fashion. (Apparently the CAA or whoever it is does the licensing have been hiring more people, so hope springs etc.) |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Nov 27, 2022 21:06:38 GMT
1.(space stuff) 2. Regarding onshore wind farms, this was in the Telegraph yesterday: “Michael Gove's support for onshore wind farms fuels Tory rebellion Grant Shapps, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss also among Conservatives who have called for end of ban, increasing pressure on Rishi Sunak” 1. A new poster posted some info on the last thread. I added some additional links. It's easy to find the 2023 budget info for ESA (as well as previous years). Not a sector I follow very closely, I only posted the info originally as I did think you'd find the different areas of interest 2. Also Jake Berry (head of NRG). Close to 'U-turn' numbers for the rebellion I expect. Rishi will hopefully 'evolve' his view |
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Post by davwel on Nov 27, 2022 21:29:27 GMT
As a Scotland-based Green centrist, I ought to elaborate on what could make me not want Labour to win at the next UK General Election.
Obviously in WestAbrdKinc constituency, the only vote choices for me are SCON and SNP. But I would try to support Labour in other ways.
Most worrying would be Starmer being replaced by a further-left Corbynite leader. But I am also bothered about excessive emphasis on growing the economy - talk that GDP has to grow for our public sector to be given a fair wage annoys me. There is plenty of leeway in raising direct taxation on the well-off. Thatcher had a 60% higher rate, and looking around the NE numerous households are spending extravagantly.
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I also want Labour to be firm on tackling bad things in the UK, such as reforming the House of Lords, ending preferential spending on the South-east such as HS2 but not Northern Rail, and the BBC. They ought to shift most of its staff out of London, certainly in news and news-background programming.
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Nov 27, 2022 21:33:22 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "Regarding the “catch”, often pro-UK stuff elicits some complaint there’s a catch, though some catches may be a bigger deal than others. (On this occasion, the headline is a bit suss, possibly suggesting we had secured some funding from eisewhere, but it’s a positive we are involved in these programmes)." I think it's also worth saying that this seems to represent a reduction in UK spending on the ESA work, compared to the last spending round, although the way the numbers have been presented makes a comparison more difficult. Maybe. Although we are also opening some spaceports etc. we might even get to use some of them if the licensing gets sorted out in a more timely fashion. (Apparently the CAA or whoever it is does the licensing have been hiring more people, so hope springs etc.) Everybody's ready but there's some paperwork to do. Everyday Astronaut is reporting the 23rd 30th for LauncherOne:
I don't know if this means they have all their licences sorted or are just hopeful the CAA can pull their finger out in time. And the planning doc for Saxavord looks like you need more employees than HS2 to complete it, so anybody's guess when the first sod will be dug: consultations.caa.co.uk/corporate-communications/public-consultation-aee-saxavord/Overview
To carry out spaceflight activity in the UK spaceport and launch operators must be
licensed by the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).
As part of their licence application, spaceport and
launch operators are required to submit an Assessment of Environmental
Effects (AEE). The purpose of the AEE is to ensure applicants have
adequately considered any potential environmental effects of their
intended activities and, if necessary have taken steps to avoid,
mitigate or offset the risks and their potential effects.
Shetland Space Centre Limited has applied to
operate a vertical spaceport, known as SaxaVord Spaceport. SaxaVord will
be located on the Lamba Ness Peninsula, in the northeast of Unst. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 27, 2022 21:44:49 GMT
jibSo I presume you are happy to have your rights of free movement stolen, for ever, unless you can afford to buy a holiday home or are a professional musician. I suspect it's a pointless exercise but what precisely do you think you've gained to compensate for your stolen rights, try to refrain from the imaginary.
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Nov 27, 2022 21:47:00 GMT
Hmm... world so f***ed up that Starmer doesn't fancy having a crack at governing and instead wants the Tories/other parties to stay in power forever and own it?
Or b) he was speaking to the Mail in the vain hope that only their readers would pick it up.
Either way, I'm a bit confused by it all to be honest.
It's very possible we're simply repeating the period before the 1997 election where everyone was saying Blair was taking the stances he did in order to get in and then things would be different and actually what you saw with Blair pre 1997 is exactly what you got post 1997. Having said this, with Starmer who knows? He told so many lies to get elected as Labour leader (topically to "defend free movement as we leave the EU") he could be telling a whole load more lies now. You really should ameliorate this love fest with Mr Starmer, it's getting embarrassing. |
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Post by mercian on Nov 27, 2022 21:58:32 GMT
It's very possible we're simply repeating the period before the 1997 election where everyone was saying Blair was taking the stances he did in order to get in and then things would be different and actually what you saw with Blair pre 1997 is exactly what you got post 1997. Having said this, with Starmer who knows? He told so many lies to get elected as Labour leader (topically to "defend free movement as we leave the EU") he could be telling a whole load more lies now. You really should ameliorate this love fest with Mr Starmer, it's getting embarrassing. It's Sir Keir to you, peasant. 😁 |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 27, 2022 22:41:34 GMT
Maybe. Although we are also opening some spaceports etc. we might even get to use some of them if the licensing gets sorted out in a more timely fashion. (Apparently the CAA or whoever it is does the licensing have been hiring more people, so hope springs etc.) Everybody's ready but there's some paperwork to do. Everyday Astronaut is reporting the 23rd 30th for LauncherOne:
I don't know if this means they have all their licences sorted or are just hopeful the CAA can pull their finger out in time. And the planning doc for Saxavord looks like you need more employees than HS2 to complete it, so anybody's guess when the first sod will be dug: consultations.caa.co.uk/corporate-communications/public-consultation-aee-saxavord/Overview
To carry out spaceflight activity in the UK spaceport and launch operators must be
licensed by the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).
As part of their licence application, spaceport and
launch operators are required to submit an Assessment of Environmental
Effects (AEE). The purpose of the AEE is to ensure applicants have
adequately considered any potential environmental effects of their
intended activities and, if necessary have taken steps to avoid,
mitigate or offset the risks and their potential effects.
Shetland Space Centre Limited has applied to
operate a vertical spaceport, known as SaxaVord Spaceport. SaxaVord will
be located on the Lamba Ness Peninsula, in the northeast of Unst. Thanks for the link: didn’t know everyday astronaut had stuff about our launches on his site. And yes, the “Assessment of Environmental Effects” is rather involved isnt it: effects on the breeding ringed plover within the project boundary, the 1 second noise contours, the peat probe data, and the bedrock geology… still, good if it limits the environmental impacts without taking aaaaaaaages. Hopefully they’ll get quicker at it, there are plenty more spaceports we could be doing… |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 27, 2022 22:50:21 GMT
Most worrying would be Starmer being replaced by a further-left Corbynite leader. But I am also bothered about excessive emphasis on growing the economy - talk that GDP has to grow for our public sector to be given a fair wage annoys me. I think it’s ok for a few in the public sector, like MPs, whose pay seems to do quite well no matter how much they shrink the economy or hamper wages for others in the public sector |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 27, 2022 23:02:07 GMT
1.(space stuff) 2. Regarding onshore wind farms, this was in the Telegraph yesterday: “Michael Gove's support for onshore wind farms fuels Tory rebellion Grant Shapps, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss also among Conservatives who have called for end of ban, increasing pressure on Rishi Sunak” 1. A new poster posted some info on the last thread. I added some additional links. It's easy to find the 2023 budget info for ESA (as well as previous years). Not a sector I follow very closely, I only posted the info originally as I did think you'd find the different areas of interest And I did find it interesting, thanks. Am kind of interested in how much our little island can do in this rather challenging sector. I mean, many might not expect much. I read an article recently claiming that we are in a race with the US to crack fusion energy first, which had me quite taken aback, but we do seem to be making some advances. JET recently set a record for fusion energy produced, we have four fusion start-ups compared to Japan’s 3, and 5 in the rest of Europe. The US has twenty though. Mind you, one of ours is supposed to be able to breed Tritium, which is handy as it is a very scarce fusion fuel costing $30,000 a gram. Still, like space ports, it’s believe it when you see it |
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Post by ladyvalerie on Nov 27, 2022 23:07:21 GMT
Clearly, there are people who, because of Starmer, don’t intend to vote Labour at the next GE.
Clearly, because Labour are 20% ahead in the polls, lots of people like the idea of Starmer as PM.
C’est La vie 😀
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 27, 2022 23:15:43 GMT
Clearly, there are people who, because of Starmer, don’t intend to vote Labour at the next GE. Clearly, because Labour are 20% ahead in the polls, lots of people like the idea of Starmer as PM. C’est La vie 😀 There are also those who are far from sure about Starmer but will vote Labour anyway because the current government combines in equal measure general incompetence (the economy) and wrongheadedness on vital issues (climate change, housing, public services), with a dash of vile inhumanity (Braverman, I'm looking at you). |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Nov 27, 2022 23:36:26 GMT
I've posted something on the Ukraine thread that is a bit 'left-field' but many interest some.
Alec will be pleased with the conclusion.
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Post by laszlo4new on Nov 27, 2022 23:46:32 GMT
I don't have a voting right for general elections, but I would vote for Labour (the Green Party is locally unique everywhere, and it is a problem in our constituency). In simple terms, while Corbyn was divisive for voters across the board (I am left wing, and I consider him a rightwinger), while Starmer is (according to polls, and intra-party evidence is divisive for some, but this doesn't affect the election result as a whole. Then, after winning the election, it is the task of the party members to develop, change, support, etc. policies, party mechanisms, structures, whatever. It can be done even if it has failed several times over some decades.
So, judging from the polls, unless the voters as a whole perceive Labour policies divisive, Labour will win.
------
On foreign students (and internal politics at the light of strikes at universities). The visa tier that enabled graduates to take a job for 24 months after graduation was abolished for a few years in the last decade, but the pressure from the universities increased massively, and it was reinstated just before the pandemic. It changed the recruitment base from Asia. It helped the university sector to make an unusually high profit in the last three years.
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steve
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Post by steve on Nov 28, 2022 0:11:57 GMT
ladyvalerie Being better than the Tories is a pretty low bar. Are you happy with Starmer conspiring with stealing our rights to free movement and red lining any effort to recover them, despite assuring us all that that was his intention just two years ago? Because if you are it appears somewhat indiscriminate support.
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Nov 28, 2022 0:18:55 GMT
Clearly, there are people who, because of Starmer, don’t intend to vote Labour at the next GE. Clearly, because Labour are 20% ahead in the polls, lots of people like the idea of Starmer as PM. C’est La vie 😀 There are also those who are far from sure about Starmer but will vote Labour anyway because the current government combines in equal measure general incompetence (the economy) and wrongheadedness on vital issues (climate change, housing, public services), with a dash of vile inhumanity (Braverman, I'm looking at you). |
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Post by mercian on Nov 28, 2022 0:30:34 GMT
There are also those who are far from sure about Starmer but will vote Labour anyway because the current government combines in equal measure general incompetence (the economy) and wrongheadedness on vital issues (climate change, housing, public services), with a dash of vile inhumanity (Braverman, I'm looking at you). It reminds me of the early 70s when to my understanding then (and I was young and ignorant - no jokes about now being old and ignorant please! 😁) there was only a fag paper between Heath and Wilson, as indeed the public seemed to agree as there was a series of close elections. Therefore one voted for the one you thought would cause the least harm, or in my case sometimes spoiling my ballot paper with a rude message because I knew spoiled papers had to be checked by candidates' representatives and therefore my message would have more impact than an actual vote. |
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Post by ptarmigan on Nov 28, 2022 1:07:22 GMT
The way things are going, I really, really can't see myself voting Labour at the next GE. I live in a safe seat so don't need to worry about letting the tories in, but, even so. Many of the floated Lab ideas/noises, from ruling out free movement, ID regarding elections and the 'naming and shaming' of those that buy a bit of weed run counter to what I would like to see. Ok, maybe I'm not the typical UK voter (if there is such a thing), but, I can't be the only one that is seriously being put off by the noises I'm hearing. Yes, this is exactly how I feel. I genuinely want a reason - any reason - to vote for them and I actually thought the party conference might prove to be a bit of a turning point in this regard but ever since they seem to be back to exclusively courting Tories and the Tory-inclined. Zzzzz. I don't necessarily disagree with the widespread view that a lot of what they're doing at the moment is about the messaging, about making themselves appear palatable to the horses that might otherwise be frightened by a more left-wing Labour govt, but I also think we have to consider the possibility that they actually believe in some of the "bad stuff". For instance, Blair era Labour had some quite authoritarian tendencies when it came to crime and immigration. Present day Labour are clearly using them as a bit of a template and it wouldn't exactly be surprising if the party, headed as it is by a former DPP, was more than happy to go with a similar approach. The problem is that this isn't 1997. This country has some huge systemic issues, worsened by 12 years of Tory rule, and I don't really see much of an indication that Labour are serious about addressing them. If they were they would have made more of an attempt to shift the prevailing narrative as promoted by the Tory Party and right-wing press. Call me a cynic but the idea that a Labour Party, elected on a Tory-lite platform (one can only assume), are going to turn up and unfurl a range of progressive policies is for the birds. |
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