Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 30, 2023 8:14:52 GMT
You can tell his posts immediately owing to the bold and capital bits. Just like you can tell Danny's by the sheer number of paragraphs. Scroll scroll scroll. I wonder if the reason the Uk voted to leave the EU is because people just arent willing to look at detail? They simply do not realise the consequences of what they are doing? And i wonder if that might have something to do with why university graduates vote labour? (because they are at least a little forced to engage in critical analysis and look past the headlines?) |
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Post by hireton on Mar 30, 2023 8:22:01 GMT
Likely Scottish Westminster seat by-election:
Edit: as others are pointing out the severity of the proposed sanction sets a context for the Privileges Committee findings and proposals re Johnson.
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Post by graham on Mar 30, 2023 8:24:26 GMT
Likely Scottish Westminster seat by-election: That is surely a likely Labour gain. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Mar 30, 2023 8:26:11 GMT
The British public have more trust for the European union than they do for the UK parliament and government. Since national shoot yourself in the foot day in 2016 faith in the UK institutions has fallen precipitously while confidence in the European union has grown. The same survey from World values also showed that only 24% of people said they were “happy” that the UK voted to quit the EU while 49% said they were disappointed. Our shambolic government and the born again brexitanians in the Labour leadership are yet again behind the curve of public opinion which calls at the very least for a far more productive relationship with Europe. Of course there will always be Brexit cultists who prefer their own fantasies to the truth and assorted useful idiots who think eventually that turd can be polished. But the majority of the electorate have seen the failed nationalist exceptionalist frolic for the bull shit it so obviously is and want it consigned to the bin. Sadly the damage the brexitanian luddites have done is far harder to repair than it was to break, our stolen rights and the life chances of our children will remain diminished for some time to come. www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/30/britons-more-confidence-in-eu-than-westminster-poll-brexitA notable admission in that article by David Davis, pointing out that Brexit was built on lies promulgated by parts of the British media .......
"The former Brexit secretary David Davis said the marked shift was probably a result of “a whiny, unpleasant, bitchy row” in parliament over Brexit since late 2017, “which has been completely unproductive”.
He said UK government crises over the coronavirus pandemic would have added to the slump in trust and suggested that since Brexit, the media – he named the Sun, Daily Telegraph, Times and Daily Mail – have stopped “kicking Brussels all the time” as they did in the run-up to the 2016 referendum.
“No one reads about square strawberries or straight bananas any more,” he said."
Now it's the turn of refugees, and others, with much the same effect.
Anything to make people kick down not up. To distract from the culpability and impunity of the English ruling classes (and not the largely imaginary middle class 'liberal elite') |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Mar 30, 2023 8:26:45 GMT
Likely Scottish Westminster seat by-election: That would be an interesting election, SNP lead was a little over 5,000 in 2019 If Labour wants to win more seats in Scotland they would hope to win this |
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Post by jib on Mar 30, 2023 8:29:27 GMT
Straight into the fire for the new SNP leader, yes, going to be a very interesting test is Ferrier gets recalled. Attachment Deleted(Source: Wikipedia) |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Mar 30, 2023 8:31:54 GMT
What I find hard to accept with the attitude shown by Ptarmigan is that we have one of the worst governments ever seen in this country on so many measures, moral, competency, cultural, respect for probity and law etc etc, not to mention actual, deliberate damage to the social fabric and to the economy (something that even Trump wouldn't countenance) and yet repeatedly I hear people say 'why should I vote Labour because they're not blah blah enough'. It would be nice if they were and could still win elections handsomely but right now I'll take the casting of the tory party into the abyss over anything else. It's a necessary thing to happen, for them to be shown that the nonsense we've put up with for years now will in the end have a price. A heavy price. They have to know they need to change their culture because they will be back one day, they always are. When that happens, for the sake of the country, we need them to come back chastised and in a very different form. I'm also astute enough to realise that whatever electioneering rhetoric is used by Labour pre election once in power they will naturally lean towards social justice whereas the tories are always seeking to do the opposite. You appear to be inclined to provide Starmer et al with a blank cheque and so turn a blind eye to his authoritarian Stalinist tendencies. Moreover, Starmer has resiled on much of what he promised when a leadership candidate and in doing so revealed himself to as much of a compulsive liar as Boris Johnson. You're in all seriousness lumping Starmer together with Johnson from a moral standpoint? You and the small number who share those views can believe what you like. It will make next to no difference to the outcome of the next GE. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Mar 30, 2023 8:35:24 GMT
@sotonsaint Ok. I'm simplifying this a bit, but she started buying a terraced house 20 years ago at the age of 19 for £30K. It was quite a struggle. She sold it maybe 6? years ago for £65K. The semi they now live in cost £130k. It's quite a nice area with woods behind the house and a river over the road. I've just searched Zoopla and there are many 3-bed semis in the area for less than £200k. One is even £39k but I imagine it would need a bit of work and/or serious armament by the occupier 🤣 Perhaps you just live in the wrong place? @sotonsaint -you need to get on your bike! He might be too young to get that reference  |
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Post by barbara on Mar 30, 2023 8:50:15 GMT
Likely Scottish Westminster seat by-election: I wonder if they've given her such sharp penalty so that Johnson can't claim not fair when they give him 10 days. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 8:56:35 GMT
The usual route is to start off with somewhere that you can afford, and then gradually trade up. I started with an ex-council house for £8k in a rough part of Birmingham (Birmingham started selling council houses in the 1970s). I could never have afforded where I live now. I didn't even have a car until I got a company car. There didn't seem any point learning to drive until I could afford one. I might have missed this, but was your parents' house their first one? No, their first was in Petersfield. A terraced house currently worth circa £400k, so absolutely out of the price range of someone in their early 20s. I guess it's off to Middlesbrough I go... But seriously I think you're missing the key issue here which is that house prices vs. wages have diverged beyond comprehension, and the cost of living, education, paying into a pension, running a car, having children etc is far higher now than it was when you were young. |
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Post by barbara on Mar 30, 2023 9:34:17 GMT
The usual route is to start off with somewhere that you can afford, and then gradually trade up. I started with an ex-council house for £8k in a rough part of Birmingham (Birmingham started selling council houses in the 1970s). I could never have afforded where I live now. I didn't even have a car until I got a company car. There didn't seem any point learning to drive until I could afford one. I might have missed this, but was your parents' house their first one? No, their first was in Petersfield. A terraced house currently worth circa £400k, so absolutely out of the price range of someone in their early 20s. I guess it's off to Middlesbrough I go... But seriously I think you're missing the key issue here which is that house prices vs. wages have diverged beyond comprehension, and the cost of living, education, paying into a pension, running a car, having children etc is far higher now than it was when you were young. I live about 15 minutes from Middlesbrough and although it's true that prices are quite a bit lower than further south if you're not prepared to live in the very middle of Middlesbrough (and trust me it's not nice place) then within 5 miles of the town centre you're in affluent middle class commuter, rural and semi rural housing which costs quite a lot more. A short distance away is North Yorkshire which is one of the most expensive areas in this part of the country. Prices are cheap up here in the areas that suffered most from Thatcher's decimation of the mining and industrial complexes (Middlesbrough was home to ICI) where they are still suffering from 30 years of neglect and decline and deterioration. Other parts of the North East that were aristocracy, farming, hunting etc and the supporting villages and market towns are pricey. Richmond where Sunak has his manor house (£2.3m) is only 29 miles from Middlesbrough. However, if you can afford a house in Southampton then it's quite possible you would get a bigger house up here. |
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Post by shevii on Mar 30, 2023 9:37:56 GMT
Having just revisited my old hometown in outer north west London for a school reunion, I can understand why people in the south are against further development. In the 30 years since we moved north, houses have been squeezed in at every slight opportunity, traffic and parking is horrendous. Totally agree with you about London (including outskirts) as I hate my trips back there as the buses limp along even in zone 6 and beyond with the tubes and commuter trains jam packed for much of the day. Green spaces subtly eroded with new builds, house extensions and paving over for car parking space leading to a loss of basic wildlife even with common birds like sparrows, blackbirds etc. But the reason I'm a population control extremist is because I see the same thing starting to happen where I live in Wigan. Traffic used to flow freely but especially in areas like Standish where there has been an awful lot of new builds (often replacing green land and wooded areas) the traffic also now limps along at certain times of the day and Manchester has just replicated the conditions in London regardless of what Burnham achieves on his public transport plans. Indeed a train trip into Manchester is much the same now as in London whereas when I first came up the line into Manchester you'd always get a seat any time of the day. I imagine the same thing will be happening in the places that people have mentioned like Brighton, Southampton, Bristol, etc. You can make an exception for a city to some extent as a special case but as the London conditions start to be replicated in even deprived areas there's an increasing quality of life issue. |
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Post by graham on Mar 30, 2023 9:39:37 GMT
Likely Scottish Westminster seat by-election: I wonder if they've given her such sharp penalty so that Johnson can't claim not fair when they give him 10 days. Given the process involved. a by election is unlikely before July. |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mar 30, 2023 9:42:26 GMT
The usual route is to start off with somewhere that you can afford, and then gradually trade up. I started with an ex-council house for £8k in a rough part of Birmingham (Birmingham started selling council houses in the 1970s). I could never have afforded where I live now. I didn't even have a car until I got a company car. There didn't seem any point learning to drive until I could afford one. I might have missed this, but was your parents' house their first one? No, their first was in Petersfield. A terraced house currently worth circa £400k, so absolutely out of the price range of someone in their early 20s. I guess it's off to Middlesbrough I go... But seriously I think you're missing the key issue here which is that house prices vs. wages have diverged beyond comprehension, and the cost of living, education, paying into a pension, running a car, having children etc is far higher now than it was when you were young. I don't doubt that you're correct on at least most of those items young Sainters but have you any comparative inflation adjusted figures to support them? For the majority primary and secondary education is free but higher education is chargeable. Most pensions, back in the day were final salary non contributory with an option to pay in additional amounts and now they're defined contribution with an option to pay in additional amounts. And many people have such pensions who wouldn't have had them in the past. Not sure about car costs as I've read lots of things over the years that running cars is cheaper than in the past, which has contributed massively to traffic growth. Having children is generally free at the point of delivery, literally, but as a percentage of pay over their childhood, I'm not sure they work out more expensive? |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mar 30, 2023 10:12:15 GMT
Having just revisited my old hometown in outer north west London for a school reunion, I can understand why people in the south are against further development. In the 30 years since we moved north, houses have been squeezed in at every slight opportunity, traffic and parking is horrendous. Totally agree with you about London (including outskirts) as I hate my trips back there as the buses limp along even in zone 6 and beyond with the tubes and commuter trains jam packed for much of the day. Green spaces subtly eroded with new builds, house extensions and paving over for car parking space leading to a loss of basic wildlife even with common birds like sparrows, blackbirds etc. But the reason I'm a population control extremist is because I see the same thing starting to happen where I live in Wigan. Traffic used to flow freely but especially in areas like Standish where there has been an awful lot of new builds (often replacing green land and wooded areas) the traffic also now limps along at certain times of the day and Manchester has just replicated the conditions in London regardless of what Burnham achieves on his public transport plans. Indeed a train trip into Manchester is much the same now as in London whereas when I first came up the line into Manchester you'd always get a seat any time of the day. I imagine the same thing will be happening in the places that people have mentioned like Brighton, Southampton, Bristol, etc. You can make an exception for a city to some extent as a special case but as the London conditions start to be replicated in even deprived areas there's an increasing quality of life issue. I went back to look at the family home I lived in from 8 to 28. I wish I hadn't. In the front Dad's lawn with its rose bed in the centre gone, the James Greive apple tree he planted and whose produce I used to munch on the way to school on blissful, dewy autumnal mornings gone, the old Christmas tree and all the shrubs gone. The massive pyracantha up the front of the house gone. Instead it was all covered in pink paviours, daft when you think there's no dropped kerb and round the back is parking for three cars. Round the back was another disappointment. Three established hawthorn trees gone, a holly gone, a flowering cherry gone, an almond tree gone. In short, no trees at all. And to crown it all it looks as if the house windows haven't been painted since my parents sold the place 45 years ago and the wooden garage doors are gently rotting and still in the same paint my dad so carefully applied. |
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Post by Mark on Mar 30, 2023 10:19:58 GMT
I had to post this - keithswank.com/index.htmlHe's a failed Republican congressional candidate for the Washington 10th District, losing heavily to Democrat Mary Strickland. He's an ex army veteran serving from 1986 -94. He is currently campaigning to arm teachers to protect children. And yes, his name really is Keith R. Swank. Roll that around your tongue, slowly. Or maybe not..... I must admit, when I first saw the link, my first thought was "what on earth is he linking to?", wondering if it was something dodgy. I then quickly thought that it must be an Onion/Daily Mash type site. I suspect that he should be thinking quite seriously about a different URL.... |
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Post by shevii on Mar 30, 2023 10:29:35 GMT
We can't actually live in it as we're still supporting our twenty something kids in the South who despite decent jobs can't afford to buy, so we're still bloody renting! JIB will be cross but he has to remember that a fair number of those kids may not end up being Lib Dem or even Remainers. |
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Post by moby on Mar 30, 2023 10:34:02 GMT
Isn't it naive though to see politics as attractive in any sense. The reality is in a modern democracy there are a set of options limited by economic and political realities, (Truss found that out recently when she tried to introduce her version of Trussonomics. She and her supporters really believed they could move the dial. They were excited by their radical ideas for 'growth'. The markets didn't agree however and she was gone within 40 odd days! for reasons not initiated by political decisions in this country. Her removal was a decision made by her own Party reacting to international markets and the polls. Many of the tories I'm sure agreed with her but knew it wouldn't wash, so compromised their beliefs and got rid of her pronto to save their own necks. We left of centre are no different; we are constrained by exactly the same forces. I always knew this when I campaigned and voted for Corbyn's Labour. His manifesto was radical but his choices were always going to be constrained by economic realities. I believe that you have to be realistic about this and look at the wider picture. Social justice, equality of opportunity etc are always prioritised by Labour more than the tories (imo).....even if those choices are not being defined in they way that you want them to be. That's the stark reality of our voting system. The Greens under the present system are a wasted vote. The Tories don't fear you voting Green, they fear you voting Labour. There was always a strong case for removing Corbyn from the Leadership - but not for denying him the right to again be a candidate should his CLP so desire. A 'wasted' vote is one which is never cast.
What the Labour NEC decides in relation to Corbyn's right to stand as a candidate matters far, far far far far less to me than removing the tories from power. Remember they foisted a corrupt liar on us and then replaced him with Truss. I think you are in danger of not being able to see the huge big forest because of the trees. Also what happens to Jeremy Corbyn in N Islington is not going to influence spending priorities of this country in any way. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Mar 30, 2023 10:34:09 GMT
I had to post this - keithswank.com/index.htmlHe's a failed Republican congressional candidate for the Washington 10th District, losing heavily to Democrat Mary Strickland. He's an ex army veteran serving from 1986 -94. He is currently campaigning to arm teachers to protect children. And yes, his name really is Keith R. Swank. Roll that around your tongue, slowly. Or maybe not..... I must admit, when I first saw the link, my first thought was "what on earth is he linking to?", wondering if it was something dodgy. I then quickly thought that it must be an Onion/Daily Mash type site. I suspect that he should be thinking quite seriously about a different URL.... Lol the word means nothing to Americans, it's a real British thing. I worked briefly once with a German called Herr Wank and often wondered if he understood why people at at British hotel desks would struggle to keep a straight face. Variations on it are not uncommon in German as 'wanken' is an old German verb meaning to sway or stagger, largely now replaced by 'schwanken'. |
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Post by moby on Mar 30, 2023 10:56:05 GMT
What I find hard to accept with the attitude shown by Ptarmigan is that we have one of the worst governments ever seen in this country on so many measures, moral, competency, cultural, respect for probity and law etc etc, not to mention actual, deliberate damage to the social fabric and to the economy (something that even Trump wouldn't countenance) and yet repeatedly I hear people say 'why should I vote Labour because they're not blah blah enough'. It would be nice if they were and could still win elections handsomely but right now I'll take the casting of the tory party into the abyss over anything else. It's a necessary thing to happen, for them to be shown that the nonsense we've put up with for years now will in the end have a price. A heavy price. They have to know they need to change their culture because they will be back one day, they always are. When that happens, for the sake of the country, we need them to come back chastised and in a very different form. I'm also astute enough to realise that whatever electioneering rhetoric is used by Labour pre election once in power they will naturally lean towards social justice whereas the tories are always seeking to do the opposite. You appear to be inclined to provide Starmer et al with a blank cheque and so turn a blind eye to his authoritarian Stalinist tendencies. Moreover, Starmer has resiled on much of what he promised when a leadership candidate and in doing so revealed himself to as much of a compulsive liar as Boris Johnson. Seriously! Talk about a loss of perspective! |
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Post by John Chanin on Mar 30, 2023 11:08:45 GMT
Isa, I have no serious health concerns but had an MOT last year from my GP, at their instigation, at 59 years old. That's interesting. Forgive me, I'm not sure of your relative neck of the woods, but that would suggest there is some wider initiative at work here. I got the impression that, locally at least, it's a 60 plus thing. Whatever, it seems that it's a widespread initiative and despite everything else that's sadly going t*ts up in the NHS at present, this useful exercise is gamely plodding on. The trouble is they can't resource it, the GPs being disastrously overloaded. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Mar 30, 2023 11:32:46 GMT
Given the difference between LAB'19 and CON'19 DKs and how different polling companies treat that issue, YG have investigated..
Will unsure Conservative voters return to the party?yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/03/30/will-unsure-conservative-voters-return-partyCould do with deeper analysis than 'left' v 'right'. Is that on the economic axis (eg increased spending on public services financed by higher taxes) where as RUK's 'appeal' might be more on the Social Axis?? However on the simples 'left' v 'right' then of note is the finding that more CON'19 DKs would consider a jump to the left rather than a step to the right, although a lot of them might just put their hands on their hips and bring their needs in tight. |
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johntel
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Post by johntel on Mar 30, 2023 11:37:18 GMT
Lol the word means nothing to Americans, it's a real British thing. Not to the ones who watch Ted Lasso |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Mar 30, 2023 11:39:12 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 30, 2023 11:57:13 GMT
Just been having an interesting online chat on fb on a site questioning why Jeremy Corbyn is no longer a Labour mp.
While with one or two individuals it was a perfectly amicable discussion with some ( normally identifiable because Jeremy Corbyn features in their avatar) the immediate go to response was immediate gratuitous personal abuse at anyone having the effrontery not to accept that Corbyn is the defender of the faith and the only person ever to have had a moral compass.
It was actually an easy way to identify candidates for blocking.
While we have our differences here normally the disagreements are rational and don't immediately descend into a slagging match, however fun that sometimes can be.
We should treasure this it makes this by far the best forum for discussion I mean it's always nice to get hundreds of likes and shares on Reunite EU posting the same comments as here but this somehow seems more friendly.
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Post by alec on Mar 30, 2023 12:01:12 GMT
The government's latest plan once again fall short of being an actual plan, and is basically a 1000 pages of words with no money to back it up. Failure written all the way through, but glossy enough to fool some, including the odd poster on here.
By now we should understand that modern Conservatism is all about doing nothing, but sounding grand about doing it. The gullible read the press releases, and then read them again a year or so later, perhaps forgetting that they've already read this, and the rest of us wonder when we'll get a government that actually knows what a delivery plan looks like. The progress made on carbon emissions since 2010 has nearly all been as a result of the momentum instilled by Labour, which was genuinely pretty good, but far from perfect, but since then the picture has been one of confused policy, withdrawal of critical supports, tactical gimmicks without the overarching strategic delivery, and a heavy dose of hopium that someone in industry will do something that helps.
This applies across the board with this government. A few years ago we had a chance to lead on battery production, now we're so far behind the car industry is closing down. The wasted years just roll on an on, until someone comes along to put this series of awful governments out of their misery.
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Post by graham on Mar 30, 2023 12:15:04 GMT
There was always a strong case for removing Corbyn from the Leadership - but not for denying him the right to again be a candidate should his CLP so desire. A 'wasted' vote is one which is never cast.
What the Labour NEC decides in relation to Corbyn's right to stand as a candidate matters far, far far far far less to me than removing the tories from power. Remember they foisted a corrupt liar on us and then replaced him with Truss. I think you are in danger of not being able to see the huge big forest because of the trees. Also what happens to Jeremy Corbyn in N Islington is not going to influence spending priorities of this country in any way. What the NEC decides in relation to a candidate's right to stand - under direction from its leader - speaks volumes about the extent to which it can claim to be a bona fide democratic party at all . When it ignores the clearly expressed wishes of the local CLP members most affected, it is bowing to the authoritarian demands of a Stalinist leader - or possibly we are seeing its adherence to the Fuhrerprinzip. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Mar 30, 2023 12:21:34 GMT
Prediction for the likely upcoming by-election
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mar 30, 2023 12:25:04 GMT
What the Labour NEC decides in relation to Corbyn's right to stand as a candidate matters far, far far far far less to me than removing the tories from power. Remember they foisted a corrupt liar on us and then replaced him with Truss. I think you are in danger of not being able to see the huge big forest because of the trees. Also what happens to Jeremy Corbyn in N Islington is not going to influence spending priorities of this country in any way. What the NEC decides in relation to a candidate's right to stand - under direction from its leader - speaks volumes about the extent to which it can claim to be a bona fide democratic party at all . When it ignores the clearly expressed wishes of the local CLP members most affected, it is bowing to the authoritarian demands of a Stalinist leader - or possibly we are seeing its adherence to the Fuhrerprinzip. Though, of course it's never been known for a CLP to have been taken over by zealots, purist or otherwise, or to have been unduly influenced by a leading personality or folk wishing to make trouble for a part leader they disagree with. In the final analysis it's up to all voters to decide whether they're happy to risk letting a Tory government in for a further five years by voting elsewhere or not voting at all. |
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Post by hireton on Mar 30, 2023 12:25:58 GMT
Likely Scottish Westminster seat by-election: I wonder if they've given her such sharp penalty so that Johnson can't claim not fair when they give him 10 days. I wondered about that too but the 3 Tory MPs and the 1 SNP MP on the Standards Committee voted against the 30 day suspension and argued for a 9 day suspension. They were outvoted because the 7 lay Committee members supported the 30 day suspension. The Privileges Committee does not have lay members. |
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