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Post by leftieliberal on Mar 29, 2023 18:55:30 GMT
Perhaps the younger median age in London is because young people move to the capital, while older people retire to the south-west. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Mar 29, 2023 19:07:16 GMT
To deal with the NIMBY and 'Virtue Signalling' of different MPs in HoC then how about Rishi asks for any MP who wants 1-2,000 refugees housed in their constituency to put their hand up and the Home Office will then know where to send them.
SNP: 45
LDEM: 14
Maybe 1/2 of LAB MPs?: call it a round 100
Tobias Ellwood: 1
Problem solved.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 19:08:27 GMT
The 2019 election was very much a response to the seemingly endless ongoing parliamentary chaos and paralysis of the previous 3 years. Only a minority held really strong views on the issue itself on either side of the debate.It was far too technical a matter to be left to direct democracy and it will always reflect badly on Cameron that he held the vote at all. Con adopted the cause of brexit in order to stay in power. In fact they adopted an anti eu stance in 2010 too to gain UKIP voters, the referendum was merely the natural progression. In the sense that it worked and con came to power in 2015 as a majority, it was not a mistake. Would Cameron have refused a referendum had he known the outcome? I doubt he could have stood against his party to do so. If he had, and labour had won in 2015, maybe narrowly, would we just have deferred everything with an increasingly ascendant farage five (or fewer) years later? In order to defeat brexit, someone needed to campaign properly for remain. The problem was always that this issue would never go away and it would always lose someone votes if they stood against it. And this would be unending just like scottish independence. So in a sense both parties ignored the needs of the nation and sought to buy voters yet again at the national expense. |
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Mar 29, 2023 19:10:17 GMT
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mar 29, 2023 19:10:53 GMT
Perhaps the younger median age in London is because young people move to the capital, while older people retire to the south-west. Ageism in London businesses may also be a factor. |
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Post by jib on Mar 29, 2023 19:12:31 GMT
Danny - there are "barges" and "barges". They range from little more than bare shells used for bulk carrying of coal, to the very luxurious. You may like to search for holidays on exactly such on the canals of France - you'll find them quite expensive. Ah, so instead of cheap hotels they are all being moved up to luxury nautical holidays. Dont think that quite what the minister wanted to convey? I seem to remember something about passenger ships permanently stuck off London or somewhere which started causing a huge amount of pollution because of the fuel they were burning to power the ship. There goes the local air quality, heavy fuel oil. Cruise ships really are a curse. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 19:15:15 GMT
“They are some of the most evil, most pernicious people in society. You have to match them." All they are doing is helping people claim the rights the Uk granted them by international treaty. A bit like lawyers, I suppose. Why is it evil to help people claim rights they are entitled to? |
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graham
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Post by graham on Mar 29, 2023 19:19:54 GMT
"That said- there was never a great wave of enthusiasm in favour of joining the EEC in the early 1970s. The Common Market was far from being popular and almost certainly contributed to Heath's defeat in early 1974" Referendum on continued membership June 1975 Yes 17,378,581 67.23% No 8,470,073 32.77% Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79% Invalid or blank votes 54,540 0.21% Total votes 25,903,194 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 40,086,677 So just the four million more votes in favour than Labour achieved in the landslide win 22 years later with an electorate three million larger. I mean these are facts Graham it's not difficult to check if your opinion is supported by reality, just because the far left wanted to leave in '75 doesn't mean they reflected majority opinion , they didnt. I recognise that data and recall that the 1975 referendum result matched the polling of the time. I also recall that a year earlier the polls were very different with a majority being opposed to membership. In the intervening year Harold Wilson's government renegotiated some of the original terms of entry - which had occured in Jan 1973. These were presented as being far more significant than was the actually the case and led to the Government recommending a Vote to stay in the EEC. The polls did change dramatically thereafter , but had a referendum actually been held by Heath in 1972 in advance of our 1973 entry , it is far from clear that it would have been won. It is quite likely that we would have followed the example of Norway - which also agreed terms of entry at the same time as the UK, Eire & Denmark only to see those terms rejected by the electorate in a referendum. |
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Post by Mark on Mar 29, 2023 19:23:39 GMT
*** ADMIN ***
I have deleted a bunch of older attachments. We now have space again (187MB of the 200MB allowed in the free plan).
As from now, you can once again post attachments.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Mar 29, 2023 19:28:21 GMT
A word on tomorrow's local government by-elections; not really a vintage crop.
BARKING & DAGENHAM LBC Heath ward, Lab defence - A safe Labour seat (Lab 74%, Con 26%). In the context of the previous discussion about two councillor wards we should note the admirable discipline of Conservative voters in the previous election here - their two candidates each received exactly 338 votes!
GLOUCESTER DC Westgate, Con defence - the interesting contest of the night. The Lib Dem and Labour votes combined exceeded that of the Conservatives and there is no Green candidate this time. Possible Lib Dem gain (or maybe even Labour, although I would back the former as more likely). (Con 40.2, LD 27.6, Lab 19.8, Green 9.9, Ind 2.4 last time - there are Con, LD, Lab, RefUK and OMRLP candidates standing)
ISLE OF ANGLESEY UA Aethwy, PC defence - Looks a safe Plaid Cymru ward. They had over 50% of the vote last time despite Labour, Conservative and Green opponents.
All counting Thursday evening.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Mar 29, 2023 19:44:15 GMT
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Post by davwel on Mar 29, 2023 19:47:52 GMT
I have to say that being concerned or worried by young people 16 years old being able to change gender, [even though they sign that they have discussed this with someone aged 18 or older] is not blocking the bill, if an amendment to 17 years old was able to be passed. Around half of Scots were found in polls to be totally opposed to the GRR Bill, which I believe sad and unfortunate, but a shift to 17 years would have been a reasonable compromise. These young people have to sign to long-term commitment, quite something for 16 year-olds. www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/s6-bills/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/stage-3/bill-as-passed.pdfSo criticism here of Kate Forbes I find unfair, and it is unfortunate that she was offered a cabinet post by Humza that looked a big demotion. I also note that criticism of the attacks on her are continuing: a long article in our "evening" paper today says those criticising her on religious beliefs "should hang their heads in shame" when she had good effective arguments for attacking poverty. I can see SLAB gaining a percent or two of votes if the rows don`t calm down. |
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Post by johntel on Mar 29, 2023 19:50:50 GMT
Rafwan ... That's fine no harm done . ... I do however feel and evidence supports this that some anti-Semitic individuals didn't feel particularly uncomfortable in the Labour party while he was leader. This doesn't exactly amount to facilitating antisemitism but it's not the robust removal that might have been hoped for either. ... OK, thanks. But I don't think there is any evidence to support this view at all. It has no basis in reality. Insofar as there is any evidence (YouGov) it shows that antisemitic attitudes in the LP declined over Corbyn's term. The EHRC examined hundreds of accusations but could find only TWO cases and one of those was Ken Livingstone (tell me, do you honestly believe he is antisemitic?). Robust removal? Expulsions when Corbyn was leader were brutal. Two of the first to be ejected on this issue were both black. I can tell you that is something that makes me feel very uncomfortable. The other two cases above had already been removed before EHRC began its work. One M.P. (and former council leader) was expelled for saying the L.P. was too apologetic about its fight against antisemitism. Another (Jewish) local councillor was kicked out for making a simple play on words. This was all done under the ill-informed and self-defeating 'zero-tolerance' policy. Have I missed something or got wrong? If so I will again withdraw and apologise. Does it matter? Perhaps not. But if I am right, the view is based on a falsehood and so matches the definition of 'doctrinaire' that you previously offered and complained about. Surely everyone knows now that the anti-semitism thing was just a ruse to get rid of Corbyn because Labour members realised he was un-electable? |
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Post by johntel on Mar 29, 2023 19:56:34 GMT
Perhaps the younger median age in London is because young people move to the capital, while older people retire to the south-west. For a long time London boroughs like Brixton, Hackney etc. were popular but places like Brighton and Frome are now where English youngsters aspire to live. Don't know about Scots or Welsh though. |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Mar 29, 2023 20:04:22 GMT
Perhaps the younger median age in London is because young people move to the capital, while older people retire to the south-west. For a long time London boroughs like Brixton, Hackney etc. were popular but places like Brighton and Frome are now where English youngsters aspire to live. Don't know about Scots or Welsh though. |
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Post by Mark on Mar 29, 2023 20:18:13 GMT
*** ADMIN *** I have deleted a bunch of older attachments. We now have space again (187MB of the 200MB allowed in the free plan). As from now, you can once again post attachments. Given the likelihood of the following that would burn through that space in around 215 attachments, then might I suggest a "policy" on what kind of attachments should be used? EG do we want people posting GIFs with crayon comments added or just useful stuff? View AttachmentNB I'll delete this post tomorrow to free back up the 0.93MB attachment space it using up. As things stand, there is no board policy on attachment size. The maximum size allowed is 1MB. I would have liked to reduce this, but, am unable to. Proboards that host us also host a wide variety of different tpes of boards including music and film related boards where larger attachmets are more common. With regard to a policy here, I would suggest that it is not needed as only a very small amount of those deleted exceeded even 0.1MB, however, it is certainly something I would consider if needed in the future. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 20:20:28 GMT
1/ Whilst the average age might by 59 then the size of the mortgage should be relatively small by >50 Labour is not going to win an election on the back of 50 years olds who have paid off their mortgages. Thats the exact group con bribed with home ownership, thanks very much. What they are winning on is 50 year olds who cannot see how to ever pay off their mortages. Or maybe 50 year olds who can, but who can see their children never will. Or 75 year olds who can see their grandchildren never will. The reason the crossover age has gone up from young=lab to old=con is precisely because the benefits of conservative giveaways in the past to the then young no longer exist for the new young. As the past beneficiaries age, they are being replaced by people who are losing out from that same policy of deliberately expensive homes. |
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Post by jib on Mar 29, 2023 20:33:35 GMT
1/ Whilst the average age might by 59 then the size of the mortgage should be relatively small by >50 Labour is not going to win an election on the back of 50 years olds who have paid off their mortgages. Thats the exact group con bribed with home ownership, thanks very much. What they are winning on is 50 year olds who cannot see how to ever pay off their mortages. Or maybe 50 year olds who can, but who can see their children never will. Or 75 year olds who can see their grandchildren never will. The reason the crossover age has gone up from young=lab to old=con is precisely because the benefits of conservative giveaways in the past to the then young no longer exist for the new young. As the past beneficiaries age, they are being replaced by people who are losing out from that same policy of deliberately expensive homes. Indeed. But the way to reduce house prices is to increase supply = build more! Clearly that is happening to an extent. Only a more progressive Government will be able to tackle that one, and the fact remains that the most demand is the South where anti-development Tories and Lib Dems reign supreme "preserving the rural way of life". Peas in a pod. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 20:40:18 GMT
Surely everyone knows now that the anti-semitism thing was just a ruse to get rid of Corbyn because Labour members realised he was un-electable? He was not unelectable, in fact he was popular. he brought with him a raft of voters other MPs couldnt reach. What a sensible party would have done was to create a team so that the right was balanced against the left by its representation amongst the shadow cabinet. Corbyn tried to do that, then they all refused to take part. He could have won if they allowed him to, but they preferred to be ersatz con. Con have abandoned one nation tories, lab have abandoned socialism. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Mar 29, 2023 20:55:20 GMT
Polling on Tories/Sunak favourability...spoiler not much in the way of improvement
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mar 29, 2023 20:57:35 GMT
Labour is not going to win an election on the back of 50 years olds who have paid off their mortgages. Thats the exact group con bribed with home ownership, thanks very much. What they are winning on is 50 year olds who cannot see how to ever pay off their mortages. Or maybe 50 year olds who can, but who can see their children never will. Or 75 year olds who can see their grandchildren never will. The reason the crossover age has gone up from young=lab to old=con is precisely because the benefits of conservative giveaways in the past to the then young no longer exist for the new young. As the past beneficiaries age, they are being replaced by people who are losing out from that same policy of deliberately expensive homes. Indeed. But the way to reduce house prices is to increase supply = build more! Clearly that is happening to an extent. Only a more progressive Government will be able to tackle that one, and the fact remains that the most demand is the South where anti-development Tories and Lib Dems reign supreme "preserving the rural way of life". Peas in a pod. Having just revisited my old hometown in outer north west London for a school reunion, I can understand why people in the south are against further development. In the 30 years since we moved north, houses have been squeezed in at every slight opportunity, traffic and parking is horrendous. |
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Post by alec on Mar 29, 2023 21:19:03 GMT
US briefings from the Pentagon now suggest they think Russia has lost 220,000 troops in Ukraine, up 20,000 in a month. They invaded with 190,000, so that's a very big loss. Also oteworthy that there are no signs that Russia has or is preparing to move nuclear weapons to Belarus, and despite the dark warnings from Moscow about escalation if Nato supplied jets to Ukraine, Nato members have now delivered jets to Ukraine, and nothing at all has happened.
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 29, 2023 21:30:27 GMT
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/29/tory-row-brewing-rishi-sunak-pledge-end-small-boat-crossings"The asylum seeker camps would meet international legal requirements to ensure that those who arrived were not made destitute, Jenrick said, with shelter in “repurposed barrack blocks and Portakabins” and basic medical care, but nothing that could act as “a magnet” for displaced people. “Accommodation for migrants should meet their essential living needs and nothing more,” Jenrick said. “We must not elevate the wellbeing of illegal migrants above those of the British people.” I've never liked having a Tory government but since 2019 I am ashamed of them.
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Post by mercian on Mar 29, 2023 21:34:27 GMT
"That said- there was never a great wave of enthusiasm in favour of joining the EEC in the early 1970s. The Common Market was far from being popular and almost certainly contributed to Heath's defeat in early 1974" Referendum on continued membership June 1975 Yes 17,378,581 67.23% No 8,470,073 32.77% Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79% Invalid or blank votes 54,540 0.21% Total votes 25,903,194 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 40,086,677 So just the four million more votes in favour than Labour achieved in the landslide win 22 years later with an electorate three million larger. I mean these are facts Graham it's not difficult to check if your opinion is supported by reality, just because the far left wanted to leave in '75 doesn't mean they reflected majority opinion , they didnt. I agree with graham. You're talking about two different things. By 1975, we were already in the EEC and it would have been another upheaval to bring us out again, so most people thought "let's just get on with it and stick with the status quo". If only modern Remainiacs were that mature. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 21:37:25 GMT
Perhaps the younger median age in London is because young people move to the capital, while older people retire to the south-west. For a long time London boroughs like Brixton, Hackney etc. were popular but places like Brighton and Frome are now where English youngsters aspire to live. Don't know about Scots or Welsh though. Frome? I know I'm usually opening bat when it comes to matters Somerset, but that was a little surprising to me. I know there's been a lot of new housing there in recent years - I occasionally see it from the train, lots of tiny houses shoehorned in to small geographical areas, - but still. Having checked Wikipedia, though, I see I'm being harsh. The place has become much more upwardly mobile in recent years, and is (just) commutable to London by train, for example. It also has a thriving arts and social vibe that wasn't necessarily the case back in the day. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frome |
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Post by mercian on Mar 29, 2023 21:39:12 GMT
Not an extensive search but 'average' age is apparently 59 with "One is six to be paying off mortgage at 65"www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/news/one-is-six-to-be-paying-off-mortgage-at-65/The MAMM approach of Starmer was discussed before and ignores many issues: 1/ Whilst the average age might by 59 then the size of the mortgage should be relatively small by >50 (or at least have been a "choice" to add extensions, keep leveraging up, etc). 2/ A lot more people these days don't have mortgages as they never got onto the ladder (often due to lack of ability to save for a deposit if they have no 'bank of mum+dad' to help them) 3/ Those 'evil' landlords types might have mortgages for leveraging their BTL portfolios - maybe Starmer is hoping to win their vote? 4/ BoE (not HMG) set rates - unless Starmer wants to change that? Whilst Rishi might try to claim credit for halving inflation later this year then not a lot HMG can do WRT to the 'big' components of inflation. 5/ 'Man' (yikes). You can't say 'man' these days. Starmer should have at least said 'Middle Aged Mortgaged Person'. I hope he reports himself and conducts some unconscious bias training and gets the weekly update on new pronouns. Whilst I'm still a capybara for now then I'm thinking of trying life as a wombat. Collective noun for wombats is much better than boring old 'herd' and the combinations of pronouns x collective nouns would put me one step of the weekly wokerati update  I paid mine off by my early 40s (as has my daughter), but I was allowing for people not being astute as me. Amazed that it's as late as 59. I was semi-retired by then. |
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Post by jib on Mar 29, 2023 21:39:22 GMT
"There is a position around which this country can unify; that we continue to root out abuse of the asylum system, but give a place to genuine refugees; that we ensure immigration controls are effective so that the many who come, rightly and necessarily, for our economy, to work, study or visit here can do so; but that those who stay illegally are removed; but that we never use these issues as a political weapon, an instrument of division and discord."
"So we've legislated to make it an offence to enter the UK without a valid passport, without a reasonable excuse."
"we are committed to bring in fixed penalty fines of £2,000 on employers for each illegal employee we find."
"We have changed asylum procedures and laws so that, for example, those trying to claim asylum from countries which are manifestly safe, like Slovakia, Bulgaria or Jamaica, can now only appeal against a refusal once they have left the UK."
Tony Blair, April 2005.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 21:43:25 GMT
Perhaps the younger median age in London is because young people move to the capital, while older people retire to the south-west. For a long time London boroughs like Brixton, Hackney etc. were popular but places like Brighton and Frome are now where English youngsters aspire to live. Don't know about Scots or Welsh though. I agree, small towns like Frome are becoming more trendy, although Brighton has long been that. You could add cities like Gloucester, Norwich, Southampton/Winchester/Portsmouth to that list - they have all been smartened up ('gentrified') to some degree and had a lot of investment in recent years. We have EIGHT micropubs in Southampton for goodness' sake (and they're all great).
I guess a combination of COVID, remote working, fast broadband and the fact that rents/house prices are so ridiculous people can't move to London has led to many of them staying with their parents or at least living outside the major cities. Perhaps this is contributing to the apparent leap in Labour support in traditionally Tory areas like the south-west?
This doesn't however mean places like London, Manchester etc are becoming less trendy. The young people who flocked to these cities in the 90s, 00s, 10s are now a bit older but still likely to have retained their liberal/lefty beliefs because most under 50s have. |
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Post by johntel on Mar 29, 2023 21:45:45 GMT
leftieliberal For a long time London boroughs like Brixton, Hackney etc. were popular but places like Brighton and Frome are now where English youngsters aspire to live. Don't know about Scots or Welsh though. - I did say places like Brighton and Frome - in fact I understand that Newcastle itself is considered to be a trendy place to live . I'm sure there are other equivalents in the north of England too. |
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Post by mercian on Mar 29, 2023 21:50:23 GMT
*** ADMIN *** I have deleted a bunch of older attachments. We now have space again (187MB of the 200MB allowed in the free plan). As from now, you can once again post attachments. Thanks Mark. That must have been a tedious job (unless you have a tool to just mass delete all attachments before a certain date 🙂 ). |
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