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Post by mercian on Mar 28, 2023 23:54:43 GMT
For those who think the UK-Rwanda scheme is the most evil thing since 1930-40s Europe, comparable to Putin or whatever the twitterati are saying: Just to be clear then, your plan is to leave these people back in their homelands to suffer and die? The reason for not processing claimants claims and the reason for keeping them in detention camps and the reason for sending them to rwanda are all to make the whole process so horrible they dont bother coming. But that still ignores the fact the world has tens of millions of people living in appalling conditions and maybe a billion living in conditions we would consider wholly unacceptable. So what do you plan to do about this? Now the traditional answer is 'absolutely nothing, leave them to rot'. Thats perfectly fine, just so long as we are clear that is your answer. You want to let them all come here at a time when according to you and your confreres the UK is a hellhole on a drastic decline? Surely they'd be better off in the EU? |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Mar 28, 2023 23:58:27 GMT
An article by Patrick Strudwick which describes my reaction to Yousaf's victory However, the fact remains that nearly half of the SNP members who voted were prepared to tolerate a religious homophobe as leader. Depressing. Perhaps they also/instead didn't want a Muslim as leader? Are there any stats on the socio-demographics and beliefs of a typical member (as opposed to one of its voters)? Although the party brand has been unwaveringly progressive in recent years it may not be the same story underneath, and it's not unusual for a party's policies and politicians to be at odds with its grassroots (see Blair, Cameron, Starmer...). I'd also assume (perhaps wrongly?) that nationalists are more likely to be racist, homophobic etc?
Preferring the continuance of the existing UK state is just as "nationalist" a stance as preferring any other constitutional arrangements, so the Westminster Tory blocking of GRR , and its support by Westminster Labour would tend to confirm your suggestion that Brit Nats are more likely to be racist, homophobic etc. |
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Post by mercian on Mar 29, 2023 0:08:21 GMT
Pleasantly surprised that the UK is not higher on that sugar consumption list. Refined sugar is a menace and a largely reduced consumption of it would do wonders for wider health I'm certain. As a parent of a six year old it's a daily (often losing) battle to stop her consuming sometimes far more sugar than she should when so many events, celebrations, snacks for children are chock full of it (Current Easter hoopla in the shops being a case in point) and she's so determined to get it at every opportunity. It feels like the aim is to get them young. Every visit to a cafe is a battle and we even have to snatch the little bowl of sugar sachets off the table before she clocks them but hey I guess it was ever thus. School doesn't help either offering them a sweet pudding every day of the school week. Sure fruit is also offered as an option but how likely is that to be chosen..
"Select a main meal, drink and dessert. Choose as much fruit and veg, soup and bread as you like.
All meals include choice of plain semi-skimmed milk and refresh water
All options include - yoghurt and fresh fruit for dessert
All dishes are served with a choice of seasonal vegetables or side salad"
www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=56675&p=0Quite a change from my day. Stuff like cabbage boiled into a mush, cadge-madge meat and overcooked potatoes. The only thing I liked was the dessert 'chocolate concrete' which 40 years later I discovered wasn't supposed to be of that consistency. |
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Post by mercian on Mar 29, 2023 0:23:51 GMT
“ Behind virtually every post-war bust lies a commercial property crash, and on some measures, we are again perilously close to one.
According to MSCI's monthly UK property index, the value of commercial property in Britain – office, factory, retail and warehouse space – fell 18pc in the second half of last year from the peak in June. For 2022 as a whole, values fell on average by 13.3pc, according to a separate index compiled by CBRE, a US-based commercial real estate services company.
The picture isn't much better in the United States, where commercial real estate prices have fallen by 5pc since their peak in the middle of last year. Capital Economics is predicting a further fall in the US of 18pc-20pc from here on in, resulting in a peak to trough decline of around 22pc.” Telegraph This is inevitable giving the growth of Working From Home owing to the pandemic and lockdown. Large numbers of people will WFH at least some of the time from now on, thus reducing the need for office space. There are societal benefits from this - e.g. fewer cars on the roads, less need for petrol, lower pollution and so on. PHEW. Finally caught up. A busy day on the board and as I've been playing chess I had to plough through several pages' worth. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Mar 29, 2023 0:49:54 GMT
That surprises me. These are the menus my grandkids (and every other Glasgow pupil) are offered -
"Select a main meal, drink and dessert. Choose as much fruit and veg, soup and bread as you like.
All meals include choice of plain semi-skimmed milk and refresh water
All options include - yoghurt and fresh fruit for dessert
All dishes are served with a choice of seasonal vegetables or side salad"
www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=56675&p=0 Quite a change from my day. Stuff like cabbage boiled into a mush, cadge-madge meat and overcooked potatoes. The only thing I liked was the dessert 'chocolate concrete' which 40 years later I discovered wasn't supposed to be of that consistency. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Mar 29, 2023 0:59:55 GMT
The SNP clearly has divisions within it.
Tories have been wielding daggers against each other and have defenestrated two leaders within months.
As for Labour -
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 29, 2023 5:58:39 GMT
mercian I am not entirely certain why you find the notion of housing asylum seekers who are awaiting the decision of our authorities in humane conditions while our incredibly inefficient processes grind on problematic. Asylum seekers in the UK are not permitted to seek gainful employment and are not in receipt of benefits , ten percent are children. There is of course no such thing as an " illegal immigrant " people aren't illegal they're still people .There are people whose presence in UK is unlawful however none of these are asylum seekers housed in hotels, they are under current U.K. and international law here legally until their cases are concluded, after which the vast majority will be granted leave to remain mostly as refugees, those who aren't can then be deported. Local authorities already routinely house other UK resident homeless people in hotels and other temporary accommodation, the difference being of course that they can seek work, are free to live elsewhere and are in receipt of benefits where applicable. I am not sure where you want to see desperate people that our regime refuses permission to work to live while their status is assessed, other than presumably in another country.That's not a concern over accommodation that's xenophobia. There was no " small boats" problem before the regime implemented its Brexit and the backlog of asylum seeker claims isn't as Sunak and other ministers have lied about in parliament " half that under the last Labour government " it's actually eight times as high. There are currently over 160,000 asylum seekers in the UK awaiting a decision on their status in 2010 there were 18000. The problem in the UK isn't down to desperate people seeking safety it's down to the Tory regime manufacturing a crisis through inept management of the process, a hostile environment towards asylum seekers with ludicrous restrictions on their rights to work and the Brexit agreement which removed Brexitania from the Dublin accord.
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 29, 2023 6:18:23 GMT
oldnatI think criticism of the Labour leadership competition is a tad disingenuous. Prior to this leadership election the SNP hasn't held a contested election for twenty years, Sturgeon never faced a contested election to become or as leader at all, the previous leader Alex Salmond did but his first time round consisted of a total vote for both Salmond and his competitor of just over 600 votes!
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Mar 29, 2023 6:47:56 GMT
It does seem wrong that illegal migrants are given free hotel rooms while we have homeless British people living on the streets. Looks like were finally copying Scot.Gov approach. They are ending the deal for one of the ships they have been using but extending the contract for the other one:
Ukrainian refugee cruise ship deal extendedwww.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-63845498Note as per info yesterday a lot of asylum seekers from other countries are refusing the offer of accommodation in Scotland, preferring to stay in hotels in England. For ships/barges then not just the Scots of course:
Amsterdam to house migrants on cruise ship moored in portwww.euronews.com/2022/08/31/amsterdam-to-house-migrants-on-cruise-ship-moored-in-port |
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Post by hireton on Mar 29, 2023 6:57:07 GMT
oldnatI think criticism of the Labour leadership competition is a tad disingenuous. Prior to this leadership election the SNP hasn't held a contested election for twenty years, Sturgeon never faced a contested election to become or as leader at all, the previous leader Alex Salmond did but his first time round consisted of a total vote for both Salmond and his competitor of just over 600 votes! In the 2004 SNP leadership election which was the first in which all party members could vote the result was Alex Salmond 4,952, Roseanna Cunningham 953 and Mike Russell 631. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 29, 2023 7:15:22 GMT
hireton As I said around twenty years ago. Do you know what the exact SNP membership was at the time I think it might have been under 20,000 which might explain the tiny numbers but doesn't really indicate engagement at any higher levels than other parties. Of course if the membership was only 7000 it would be great anything over 13000 and it's looking a bit nesh.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 7:29:22 GMT
It does seem wrong that illegal migrants are given free hotel rooms while we have homeless British people living on the streets. Does it? Why? R4 just talking about a specific example of an Afghan pilot who worked with the UK, who was unable to follow the legal application route for assylum because had he requested from his government the necessary details he would have been killed. So he came here illegally and presumably is living in a hotel. You think he doesnt deserve that? I mean, its not even as if he is a random victim of persecution somewhere, its because he helped the british government. Minister being interviewed refused to comment, instead repeatedly saying he should have used the official application route, and presumably if he was now dead that would have solved the problem. As to UK homeless, the obvious way to solve this is to provide cheap accommodation. And the only way to do that is to provide more accommodation of all sorts and cause a general fall in property prices. This would represent a massive wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor, and thats why neither con nor lab is willing to do it. Obviously keeping out refugees is essentially more of the same, protecting the rich Uk citizens (which relatively speaking includes the homeless guy who just died here) |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 7:38:05 GMT
But if they do not declare support for Corbyn until after nominations have closed, Starmer would be stuck with them for the next Parliament. Moreover, if he fails to gain a substantial majority, he is likely to need their votes Ah the usual conservative attacks on the labour leader are in full swing. The unfortunate part is that labour loves to join in attacking its own leader far more than con is willing to do. Though usually lab are to gentlemanly to attack the con leader. Funny how the posh guys always fight dirty. |
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Post by barbara on Mar 29, 2023 7:41:26 GMT
A group of former Labour MPs acting as I have described would still have 4/5 years in Parliament as left wing Independents, and who knows what might happen to Starmer's control of the party over that period - particularly if he lacks a majority. Morover, several MPs - eg Mcdonell and Abbot - could well be serving their last Parliament anyway and have nothing to lose. I do feel tonight that I have effectively 'crossed the floor' emotionally re- Starmer. Henceforth, I shall be willing him to fail - at least to the extent of being denied a majority , and will be inclined to rejoice at any setback he faces hereafter. In a different context, he has shown himself to be every bit as much a compulsive liar as Boris Johnson.
Talk about missing the big picture. The future of the country is more important than your own sense of personal betrayal. Grow up. |
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Post by barbara on Mar 29, 2023 7:43:33 GMT
Governmentr has announced it intends to chuck afghan refugees out of hotels it is paying for and make them homeless. Then responsibility for housing will fall on local authorities. Who might or might not be able to help. Not sure the intention is to leave them living on the streest, but perhaps to get them off the books as refugees in hotels and onto the books of general homeless lumped in with Uk citizens. One of our local well recognised homeless recently died, leading to the laying of flowers on his favourite bench. I guess our local tory MP thought we needed some replacements. It does seem wrong that illegal migrants are given free hotel rooms while we have homeless British people living on the streets. Isn't it just? I simply don't understand why the government won't help homeless people as well - clearly the money is there. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 29, 2023 7:45:50 GMT
hireton I've answered my own question turnout was 79% so very respectable, the SNP appears to have a tradition of overwhelmingly supporting one candidate for leadership until this election the winner has always managed more than 70% of the votes cast
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 7:47:19 GMT
You want to let them all come here at a time when according to you and your confreres the UK is a hellhole on a drastic decline? Surely they'd be better off in the EU? This morning's news is talking about putting refugees on barges. Interviewer tried to get clear whether this is a random idea ahead of the local elections destined to sink forever thereafter, or whether they really think there exist some barges or passenger ships they could actually get hold of for this purpose. One wonders where they might come from? My understanding is that Scotland is crying out for immigrants. So why dont we change the law and grant Scotland the right to allow people to live there, an expressly Scottish citizenship which confers no rights in england for them or their descendants? It could be a way forward for Scotland to become more powerful with a cheap available labour force (oops, con wouldnt like that!). Ok, we could only get rid of a few million that way at any realistic rate. I have never said we should allow unrestricted immigration, but really my point is the massive hypocrisy here. Con basically like to lie and salve their nconsciences and those of their voters by saying they have set up a legal route to apply-which however is impossible to use. The whole point of it, is that it prevents people arriving rather than assisting them to do so. If thats what they are doing then they need to state that plainly. The Uk has been in decline since the arrival of the conservative government. Coincidence or consequence, thats the question? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 8:14:45 GMT
Depressing. Perhaps they also/instead didn't want a Muslim as leader? Are there any stats on the socio-demographics and beliefs of a typical member (as opposed to one of its voters)? Although the party brand has been unwaveringly progressive in recent years it may not be the same story underneath, and it's not unusual for a party's policies and politicians to be at odds with its grassroots (see Blair, Cameron, Starmer...). I'd also assume (perhaps wrongly?) that nationalists are more likely to be racist, homophobic etc?
Preferring the continuance of the existing UK state is just as "nationalist" a stance as preferring any other constitutional arrangements, so the Westminster Tory blocking of GRR , and its support by Westminster Labour would tend to confirm your suggestion that Brit Nats are more likely to be racist, homophobic etc.I think you've missed the point of my post but any data on what makes Scottish Nationalist members perfect compared to everyone else (which is not what I said...) or vice versa would be welcome. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 29, 2023 8:15:08 GMT
Talk about missing the big picture. The future of the country is more important than your own sense of personal betrayal. Grow up. Con policy on refugees is to keep them out so they arent a problem, they can go off and die somewhere else. Con policy on the NHS is to continue underfunding it so thats it capacity falls and services diminish. The result is much as for immigration, but we have to bury the resulting bodies here. This morning news carrying survey results of massive public experience of falling service levels. Not surprising, the NHS rations care it can deliver based upon its budget simply by making people wait. They either hang on, get better by themselves, or die. A personal example of how this works, or in this case didn't. last year a relative of mine got to the top of the waiting list and had a joint replacement. All went well, back doing the gardening and so on. Unfortunately died of a heart attack. So that was several years on the waiting list and then three months enjoying the new joint which should have had a working life of ten years plus. Had my relative died a bit quicker, the NHS would have totally saved the cost of the joint op. They just didnt make said relative wait quite long enough, but as delays increase more and more saving will arise this way. Alternatively of course, had this been a known heart issue, then relative might have been on a waiting list for that and snuffed it before their turn came up. This really demonstrates that old epople have lots of complex health problems and it is a game of whackamole to keep someone healthy. Its old people who are expensive for the NHS, their numbers in the Uk are growing and thats why the NHS needs a 3% annual budget increase every year just to keep up. It is also incidentally why our annual death rate is growing, because there are more people at the age they statistically expect to die. Its why we had so many susceptible to fatal covid. And if we had funded the NHS even less then many more could have died sooner, thereby preventing covid deaths. I dont see either party facing the issue of refugees left to die abroad or our own pensioners left to die here. Of course, these are modest problems compared to the nations from which said refugees are coming.
Other issues facing the UK? rejoining the EU- nope, no one tackling that. Building millions of homes-no, no one doing that. Tackling wealth inequality -nope no one doing that. Effective cheap renewables energy policy-nope, no one doing that.
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 29, 2023 8:33:23 GMT
Even walking embodiment of a daily mail headline Nick Ferrari called out deputy prime minister and serial bully Dominic Raab on this prison ship bollocks.
According to Ferrari number of asylum seekers currently housed in hotels 51,000, number of hotels used 400
Number of defunct cruise liners and barges booked to house these people by the regime, none of course.
Number available perfectly reasonable question to ask Raab's answer to paraphrase Tory speak not a bloody clue.
Inept, dangerous, xenophobic, liars one and all.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Mar 29, 2023 8:34:35 GMT
Quite a change from my day. Stuff like cabbage boiled into a mush, cadge-madge meat and overcooked potatoes. The only thing I liked was the dessert 'chocolate concrete' which 40 years later I discovered wasn't supposed to be of that consistency. I can't believe you're even taking offence at a tongue in cheek criticism of a Scottish school menu.. Takes touchy to a whole new level.. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Mar 29, 2023 8:37:10 GMT
Even walking embodiment of a daily mail headline Nick Ferrari called out deputy prime minister and serial bully Dominic Raab on this prison ship bollocks. According to Ferrari number of asylum seekers currently housed in hotels 51,000, number of hotels used 400 Number of defunct cruise liners and barges booked to house these people by the regime, none of course. Number available perfectly reasonable question to ask Raab's answer to paraphrase Tory speak not a bloody clue. Inept, dangerous, xenophobic, liars one and all. I recollect that Chris Grayling knows companies that deal in large numbers of imaginary ferries - perhaps he can help.  |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Mar 29, 2023 8:46:50 GMT
Today's survey on NHS - Satisfaction in 2010 after 13 years of Labour government was 70% - a record high. Satisfaction in 2023 after 13 years of Tory government is 29% - a record low. And before anyone says this justifies moving to a different model of health care, the NHS model retains 74% support with the public, with high numbers recognising that staff shortages (55%) and "the government doesn’t spend enough money on the NHS" (50%) are major causes of the problems. www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/29/satisfaction-with-the-nhs-plummets-to-lowest-level-in-40-years |
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Post by leftieliberal on Mar 29, 2023 8:46:58 GMT
graham - what was Stafford Cripps expelled for? He was expelled in 1939 for his activities as a leading advocate of a left wing Popular Front which included Communists. He was readmitted in 1945. At one time during World War 2 he was seen as a possible replacement for Churchill. He was also notorious for giving permission as President of the Board of Trade for Rolls-Royce to sell their Nene jet engine designs to Russia. From the Wikipedia article on him: In 1946, Soviet jet engine designers approached Stalin with a request to buy jet designs from Western sources to overcome design difficulties. Stalin is said to have replied: "What fool will sell us his secrets?" However, he gave his assent to the proposal, and Soviet scientists and designers travelled to the United Kingdom to meet Cripps and request the engines. To Stalin's amazement, Cripps and the Labour government were perfectly willing to provide technical information on the Rolls-Royce Nene centrifugal-flow jet engine designed by RAF officer Frank Whittle, along with discussions of a licence to manufacture Nene engines. The Nene engine was promptly reverse-engineered and produced in modified form as the Soviet Klimov VK-1 jet engine, later incorporated into the MiG-15 which flew in time to deploy in combat against UN forces in North Korea in 1950, causing the loss of several B-29 bombers and cancellation of their daylight bombing missions over North Korea.[18] Bearing in mind his previous Communist sympathies (Churchill made him Ambassador to the Soviet Union in 1940), this is pretty close to treasonable. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Mar 29, 2023 9:09:07 GMT
An interesting point about Bank runs and how quickly they can happen now thanks to social media. I remember with Northern Rock that there were several days with depositors queueing up outside before that bank went under and eventually had to be nationalised. In the case of the UK arm of SVB, they lost £3bn (30% of their deposit base) in one day, as the Bank of England told MPs on Monday. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65107122 The dynamic is a combination of instant internet banking and social media, meaning that a system built on credibility, faith, and trust are now inherently more fragile. Think about the leading lights in tech on WhatsApp groups or Slack, advising the companies they are invested in to withdraw all their cash. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 9:12:25 GMT
Some interesting analysis from Rob Ford as to why the Conservative Party doesn't seem to be benefiting from Sunak's improved personal polling.
In summary "All the wrong people are cheering"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 9:20:12 GMT
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mar 29, 2023 9:57:25 GMT
Dammit.
Just tested positive for Covid this morning.
Have felt carp since Friday.
The previous Saturday I attended a school reunion and that would appear to be the source. I did um and ah about going and it turns out I should've stayed at home and saved the fuel and Premier Inn cost.
It's my third bout.
So far not as bad as the last one, which was only 8 weeks ago.
Not good for a guy with only one kidney.
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Post by lululemonmustdobetter on Mar 29, 2023 9:59:27 GMT
A group of former Labour MPs acting as I have described would still have 4/5 years in Parliament as left wing Independents, and who knows what might happen to Starmer's control of the party over that period - particularly if he lacks a majority. Morover, several MPs - eg Mcdonell and Abbot - could well be serving their last Parliament anyway and have nothing to lose. I do feel tonight that I have effectively 'crossed the floor' emotionally re- Starmer. Henceforth, I shall be willing him to fail - at least to the extent of being denied a majority , and will be inclined to rejoice at any setback he faces hereafter. In a different context, he has shown himself to be every bit as much a compulsive liar as Boris Johnson.
Talk about missing the big picture. The future of the country is more important than your own sense of personal betrayal. Grow up. |
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Post by graham on Mar 29, 2023 10:00:50 GMT
A group of former Labour MPs acting as I have described would still have 4/5 years in Parliament as left wing Independents, and who knows what might happen to Starmer's control of the party over that period - particularly if he lacks a majority. Morover, several MPs - eg Mcdonell and Abbot - could well be serving their last Parliament anyway and have nothing to lose. I do feel tonight that I have effectively 'crossed the floor' emotionally re- Starmer. Henceforth, I shall be willing him to fail - at least to the extent of being denied a majority , and will be inclined to rejoice at any setback he faces hereafter. In a different context, he has shown himself to be every bit as much a compulsive liar as Boris Johnson.
Talk about missing the big picture. The future of the country is more important than your own sense of personal betrayal. Grow up. I can only suggest that you take your own advice re-the big picture. There are quite a few of us who are not attracted by a programme of Bland Blairism coupled with more than a touch of authoritarian Stalinism.
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