c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Mar 27, 2023 20:56:27 GMT
'Liberal' seems, these days, to have a million different meanings to a million different people. “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’  Rife in politics. Gaslighting over political terms and ideas, which is another reason they get discussed. The board has often been handy for unpicking things. |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Mar 27, 2023 20:58:33 GMT
When Russia first attacked Ukraine, the end seemed so likely to be fast and disastrous, that I really didn't want to look at the detail.
Now ....
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Mar 27, 2023 21:00:02 GMT
I assume that 'progressive' implies being in favour of progress. Therefore any policy that moves us forward in a good way is progressive - e.g. Brexit. Next stop the campaign to ensure the United Nations progresses into the League of Nations, then let's return Shetland to Norway The bad news for Mercian there is that England will eventually end up back in the Roman Empire! |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Mar 27, 2023 21:00:13 GMT
*** ADMIN *** Former member, Vyr has been banned for repeated spamming of the board. Don't think I've ever seen any posts from someone called Vyr. |
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 21:01:17 GMT
@davwell 86% of SNP party members didn't vote for anyone a third of members didn't bother to vote. The SNP isn't unique in failure to get member involvement it's an issue across several parties the SNP at around 70% isn't actually that bad but given they are effectively choosing the first minister as well nothing to write home about either. Both Labour and Lib dems only routinely manage around 60% which is pretty pathetic ,even the Corbyn 2015 election saw 25% of members not bother. The Green party are by far the worst with just 21% of their members voting in the last leadership competition. The only party that does seem to engage with their membership on the odd occasion that it gives them a choice is the Tories who routinely manage 85%+ participation. I've always found it bizarre , paying subs entitles you to a say in parties structure and it's leaders and then people don't bother to exercise it. Why join in the first place! I've probably got this wrong, but in the case of Labour if you pay the the Union contribution to the party (which might be the default?) doesn't that make you a sort of member even if you never go to a meeting or do any canvassing? |
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 21:10:26 GMT
Those who call themselves "progressive" might prefer some of the definitions. We capybaras are chilled and happy to be called anything - well maybe not guinea pigs, we're definitely not guinea pigs.  Like the new avatar (as of March 27th) |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Mar 27, 2023 21:15:56 GMT
When Russia first attacked Ukraine, the end seemed so likely to be fast and disastrous, that I really didn't want to look at the detail.
Now .... Also… |
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Post by alec on Mar 27, 2023 21:26:45 GMT
I think the Marders (some) have been there for some time, but I may be getting confused with a separate German mobile artillery system.
Also possibly worth mentioning that Portugal has donated 3 Leopards and Germany is reported as preparing a massive expansion of military aid to Ukraine, with Eu3.2bn this year and another Eu8bn in the years after.
Whether this is propaganda or not is unclear, but Ukrainian and other sources are reporting that Russia has resurrected a Stalin era tactic of deploying 'blocking units', with units stationed behind their own advancing units with orders to engage their own side if they start to withdraw.
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 21:30:14 GMT
I assume that 'progressive' implies being in favour of progress. Therefore any policy that moves us forward in a good way is progressive - e.g. Brexit. Next stop the campaign to ensure the United Nations progresses into the League of Nations, then let's return Shetland to Norway Well I suppose those would go with Scotland wanting to be independent again. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Mar 27, 2023 21:34:26 GMT
I've probably got this wrong, but in the case of Labour if you pay the the Union contribution to the party ( which might be the default?) doesn't that make you a sort of member even if you never go to a meeting or do any canvassing? You will be delighted to know Mercian that Conservative governments have put a stop to that. Not only do new union members have to opt in to the political levy but the union is obliged to remind them annually that they can opt out again. Oddly, for some reason, there is a absence of rules about the huge donations from companies, hedge fund billionaires, Putin apologists and dodgy foreign arms dealers that pour into the Conservative Party's coffers. |
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 21:34:29 GMT
When Russia first attacked Ukraine, the end seemed so likely to be fast and disastrous, that I really didn't want to look at the detail.
Now .... Also… It must be quite difficult for the Ukrainians to manage so many different types of equipment. I don't know much about tanks, but I assume they will need different spare parts, have different controls and capabilities and so on. Would a Leopard tank crew be able to just jump in a Challenger and operate it efficiently for instance? |
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 21:39:51 GMT
I've probably got this wrong, but in the case of Labour if you pay the the Union contribution to the party ( which might be the default?) doesn't that make you a sort of member even if you never go to a meeting or do any canvassing? You will be delighted to know Mercian that Conservative governments have put a stop to that. Not only do new union members have to opt in to the political levy but the union is obliged to remind them annually that they can opt out again. Oddly, for some reason, there is a absence of rules about the huge donations from companies, hedge fund billionaires, Putin apologists and dodgy foreign arms dealers that pour into the Conservative Party's coffers. Well that's one for Starmer to deal with if he gets in next time then. On the opt-in thing with union members I can imagine that there are a lot of people in unions who generally vote Labour and don't mind contributing a bit, but who have no wish to get actively involved in politics. That's all I was saying. I was replying to steve I think who couldn't understand why party members didn't bother voting for the leader. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Mar 27, 2023 21:42:03 GMT
It must be quite difficult for the Ukrainians to manage so many different types of equipment. I don't know much about tanks, but I assume they will need different spare parts, have different controls and capabilities and so on. Would a Leopard tank crew be able to just jump in a Challenger and operate it efficiently for instance? Well I’ve read of similar concerns to yours Pete, but don’t know the answers. There’s this vid from a U.S. DOD expert on how Ukraine will maintain Challenger, Leopard and Abrams tanks if you want to check it out: youtu.be/z4FUxKtzNZw |
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Post by davwel on Mar 27, 2023 21:42:50 GMT
@peter Bell
I knew you were a Geordie since you had told us in an early message, and had also complained recently here about the BBC. So I was puzzled at what had changed.
Maybe it was Scotland getting the major coverage for once, but NE England again neglected just like Cumbria. And the Tory Gov`s levelling-up may choose just parts of north Britain for largesse, so NE England and Scotland could be rivals.
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Post by Rafwan on Mar 27, 2023 21:45:22 GMT
It is a bit more complex than that with Labour because the Party is part of a wider 'labour movement'. So when the Conservatives were claiming their peak membership of 2,805,832 in 1953 (p141, 20th Century British Political Facts, Butler and Butler, 2000), the Labour Party would have pointed to 1,005,000 individual members, 5.057,000 members of affiliated trade unions and 34,000 members of affiliated socialist societies and the Co-operative Party - total 6,096,000 (p159 of the same book). There would have been some duplication in those figures and of course being a member of an affiliated trade union was not a guarantee you supported the Labour Party! I believe that until some point in the 1970s or 1980s individual Labour Party membership was notional . No CLP had fewer than 1,000 members - even if the real figure was - say - 250. At party conferences every CLP was deemed to have at least 1,000 members. I don’t think there was any way of knowing. It relied on information from (totally unreliable!) CLP officers. I think you had to have a thousand members to register nationally, so everyone put that. There was no central collection of subs. But there was a really good system of collectors. Each ward had a team of collectors, maybe five or six, who would collect members’ subs every few weeks and would also hand deliver ward notices (and agendas). It was a great infrastructure to keep people involved and in touch, and a really good way of looking out for older members, who welcomed a chat. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Mar 27, 2023 22:00:33 GMT
You will be delighted to know Mercian that Conservative governments have put a stop to that. Not only do new union members have to opt in to the political levy but the union is obliged to remind them annually that they can opt out again. Oddly, for some reason, there is a absence of rules about the huge donations from companies, hedge fund billionaires, Putin apologists and dodgy foreign arms dealers that pour into the Conservative Party's coffers. Well that's one for Starmer to deal with if he gets in next time then. On the opt-in thing with union members I can imagine that there are a lot of people in unions who generally vote Labour and don't mind contributing a bit, but who have no wish to get actively involved in politics. That's all I was saying. I was replying to steve I think who couldn't understand why party members didn't bother voting for the leader. Indeed, it is true of individual members of parties too. For most of my membership of Labour I have done nothing for the party other than give it money, although I did vote in leadership elections (Ed Miliband in 2010, Andy Burnham 2015, Starmer 2019 for the record). For a long time as a senior local government officer I was barred by law from active political involvement anyway. That doesn't apply in the NHS which, together with certain other personal stuff, explains why I have been finally lured into being a candidate in the May elections. |
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Post by Mark on Mar 27, 2023 22:17:46 GMT
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Mar 27, 2023 22:19:43 GMT
Had I been a backroom planner for indy, I might have recognised that potential supporters of indy have a similar range of political views on many issues as those on the UK Unionist side, and that those supporting a "centre right" Scotland might be hesitant at voting for a "centre left" state - and vice versa.
Creating a leadership contest in which both of these sets of attitudes are articulated, but then come together to promote the common aim of an independent Scotland as a normal democracy in which these groups can vie for power potentially alienates neither set from supporting indy.
In that scenario, I would be quite happy with today's outcome.
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 22:23:56 GMT
It must be quite difficult for the Ukrainians to manage so many different types of equipment. I don't know much about tanks, but I assume they will need different spare parts, have different controls and capabilities and so on. Would a Leopard tank crew be able to just jump in a Challenger and operate it efficiently for instance? Well I’ve read of similar concerns to yours Pete, but don’t know the answers. There’s this vid from a U.S. DOD expert on how Ukraine will maintain Challenger, Leopard and Abrams tanks if you want to check it out: youtu.be/z4FUxKtzNZwThanks. Very interesting. I skipped a bit because it was quite long. The bit about logistics starts at about 15 minutes in. The guy clearly knows his stuff. It also starts with an amusing David Attenborough impression! |
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 22:34:28 GMT
We're all dooomed. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxqvwkmTNy8I'm glad I live on a hill so I won't get flooded when the icecaps melt. It'll be a bit of a pain to have to fight off all those refugees from London though. |
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Post by RAF on Mar 27, 2023 22:46:44 GMT
We're all dooomed. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxqvwkmTNy8I'm glad I live on a hill so I won't get flooded when the icecaps melt. It'll be a bit of a pain to have to fight off all those refugees from London though. Many parts of London also have hills. It's only really the areas along the Thames that are vulnerable. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2023 22:50:51 GMT
@davwell Can't explain, because that is not what I want and I doubt you can find any post where I have suggested I want biased BBC reporting. In fact, a few days ago I posted that I would be limiting my BBC watching due to political bias. However, being a Geordie I am not too worried about Sussex often being misnamed Suffolk and Surrey. I assume that you know where Geordies live - I did hint at it in my original post. What I was referring to was the 50% of the news broadcast being devoted to the SNP while you always complain about the lack of Scottish coverage.  Peter - you have a point. There was indeed some coverage of the leadership contest and fair enough. it was pretty poor fare for the most part - very little about the real issues - what exactly were the candidates views on the path to independence could have been explained for example, and the likelihood of Forbes serving in a Humza cabinet was skimmed over beyond the usual delighted to serve statement. I can see why, coming from Cheddar Gorge, you would be more interested in Somerset than Sussex/ Surrey distinctions Cheddar Gorge is spectacular, but not exactly habitable (unless you're a goat). The nearby village of Cheddar is, however, very pleasant. There can't be many places with a population of less than 6,000, (2011), which are widely known for two completely different reasons, though. |
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 22:54:08 GMT
RAF I expect scientists have worked it out better, but as a teenager I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation that if the icecaps and glaciers melted completely, sea level would go up by about 170 feet. Of course a lot of information wasn't available back then and I only had an atlas to work from. I have checked and London does have places higher than that as you say. Hampstead Heath will get pretty crowded!
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Post by mercian on Mar 27, 2023 22:56:56 GMT
Peter - you have a point. There was indeed some coverage of the leadership contest and fair enough. it was pretty poor fare for the most part - very little about the real issues - what exactly were the candidates views on the path to independence could have been explained for example, and the likelihood of Forbes serving in a Humza cabinet was skimmed over beyond the usual delighted to serve statement. I can see why, coming from Cheddar Gorge, you would be more interested in Somerset than Sussex/ Surrey distinctions Cheddar Gorge is spectacular, but not exactly habitable (unless you're a goat). The nearby village of Cheddar is, however, very pleasant. There can't be many places with a population of less than 6,000, (2011), which are widely known for two completely different reasons, though. Or you want to live in a cave! That reminds me of the story a few years ago when some scientists found a chap in Cheddar who had the same DNA as one of the prehistoric skeletons found in the caves. They don't get about much. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Mar 27, 2023 22:58:18 GMT
Ministers have been “horrified” to discover that energy suppliers force-fitted prepayment meters in customers’ homes more than 94,000 times last year.
The figures emerged in the wake of a Times investigation after Grant Shapps, the energy security secretary, ordered the companies to reveal the extent to which they had been breaking into homes and force-fitting the meters during the cost of living crisis.
More than 7,500 prepayment meters were fitted per month last year after warrants were obtained at courts; 70 per cent of them were for just three companies: British Gas, Scottish Power and Ovo Energy.
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Post by graham on Mar 27, 2023 23:02:07 GMT
I believe that until some point in the 1970s or 1980s individual Labour Party membership was notional . No CLP had fewer than 1,000 members - even if the real figure was - say - 250. At party conferences every CLP was deemed to have at least 1,000 members. I don’t think there was any way of knowing. It relied on information from (totally unreliable!) CLP officers. I think you had to have a thousand members to register nationally, so everyone put that. There was no central collection of subs. But there was a really good system of collectors. Each ward had a team of collectors, maybe five or six, who would collect members’ subs every few weeks and would also hand deliver ward notices (and agendas). It was a great infrastructure to keep people involved and in touch, and a really good way of looking out for older members, who welcomed a chat. I am sure your assumption of ' having to have a thousand members' is incorrect. Many CLPs had far fewer than that , but were deemed to have 1,000 members subsequent to paying the affiliation fee. They were then able to cast votes at party conferences. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2023 23:21:40 GMT
Cheddar Gorge is spectacular, but not exactly habitable (unless you're a goat). The nearby village of Cheddar is, however, very pleasant. There can't be many places with a population of less than 6,000, (2011), which are widely known for two completely different reasons, though. Or you want to live in a cave! That reminds me of the story a few years ago when some scientists found a chap in Cheddar who had the same DNA as one of the prehistoric skeletons found in the caves. They don't get about much.Dr Beeching closing the local railway line in 1963 probably didn't help. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Valley_line |
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 28, 2023 6:39:29 GMT
In 👃 in the trough news. Stephen Hammond applies for his fourth side gig while a serving mp. youtu.be/2LQkLazFZmU |
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steve
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Post by steve on Mar 28, 2023 6:44:14 GMT
@isa
The residents of rural Somerset may be a tad insular however I think they hqave up cave dwelling on a large scale a while before 1963, except in Shepton Mallet of course.
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Post by alec on Mar 28, 2023 6:45:10 GMT
Not specifically on covid, but certainly linked, the results of this pilot study point to the lost legacy of the UK response - www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/influenzaandotherrespiratoryvirusespilotstudycoronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyuk/october2022tofebruary2023As cases rise to their highest level so far this year, with around 1 in 30 infected, the government has abandoned the ONS infection survey. Most people are probably unaware that globally, this was seen as the gold standard of covid monitoring, and partner coutries can't quite believe it's being pulled. The link shows how an ONS pilot study demonstrated how the survey could be enhanced to provide early warning about all respiratory viruses, and help stave off future NHS crises. But we've walked away from a world beating public health tool. The UK did score some big wins in our pandemic response. Notably, establishing an effective vaccine development and procurement system, and developing truly world class monitoring systems. But Sunak knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing, and we've trashed the legacy of learning from the whole period. We will live to regret these idiotic decisions. |
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