26-Nov 2022 : LAB: 50% / CON: 27% / LDEM: 9% / GRN: 4%

[Mr Poppy]

Not sure if anyone posted the new Omnisis VI but that makes 3 out of 4 of the latest batch of polling showing CON closing the gap (albeit from a very wide starting point). They also show Rishi back to net +ve in approval and ahead of Starmer as best PM.

[steve]

Corrupt Tory Donkeys caught on camera.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/25/top-tory-mps-ask-for-10000-a-day-to-work-for-fake-korean-company

[Danny]

Mar 25, 2023 15:01:26 GMT lens said:

Mar 25, 2023 9:20:50 GMT Danny said:

On the renewables front, I remind everyone Russia has just been fighting to take control of the largest european deposits of some of the minerals necessary for the renewables revolution. Plus all the grain growing area he can keep. Still all in play.

Danny - whilst Ukraine undoubtably is a source of such minerals, don't overplay their importance. Contrary to a lot of popular belief, a lot of "rare minerals" are not rare at all worldwide.

a nation whose main source of income is selling fosil fuels to a wordl pledged to stop using them, is desperately in need of a means to diversify. They are likely worth a lot more to Russia than to the rest of the world.

Any recent shortages are far more due to a very rapid increase in demand, swamping current mining etc ability.

thats likely true, but mines previously closed all across the world because Chinese mines were better and cheaper to produce from. China has an automatic trade advantage. These resources in Ukraine were described as the best in europe, albeit unexploited.

Think of it like toilet rolls at the beginning of 2012. There never was "a shortage of toilet rolls", toilet rolls were never "a rare item" per se.

Think of it as China having the cheapest source of paper pulp for toilet rolls, and Russia acquiring the second cheapest. Who in the end wins the economic war and supplies everyone with toilet rolls?

[davwel]

But Steve, surely you don`t think that the BBC has only a studio in London from which they could output current-affairs programmes. For example in Lancashire there are many people of Asian origin, and they could be involved in programmes broadcast from Manchester or Salford.

Then we wouldn`t have Anita Anand, blinkered to SE England, but doing Any Answers for the whole UK and now often Friday`s 5PM, dealing with a person ringing in to AA today, as from "Dumfermline in Scotland". None of her other numerous callers were consigned to "in England" but got their local or shire location given.

It`s as though Anita thinks there is one standard view that exists across the whole of Scotland, whereas for England there will be variation between Cumbria, Devon and Essex. So a person from Fife will not have a view on shipbuilding capability different from a person from Dumbartonshire, or on the NI protocal different from an Orangeman from Lanarkshire, and on religion different from someone who stays in the Western Isles.

[Danny]

Mar 25, 2023 15:06:12 GMT alec said:

I would also point out the illogicality of this. For the last five decades I've been forced to share public toilets, open changing rooms and every other shared space I've ever been to with men who like having sex with men. Has it been an issue? Not for me. So I think we are overplaying this. ...
we really do need to get our priorities sorted out here.

Hmm. Well you are correct, but there is very much an issue with changing spaces where there has been a trend away from men bouncing around naked and using communal showers to individual changing cubicles. Speaking as a gay man, I have always quietly enjoyed seeing others showering. i can tell you that such know which sports centres will still have naked showers, and make a point of going there. At some places, undoubtedly people are eying each other up to hook up later, or even have sex on the premises. If you arent gay, then perhaps this totally passed you by, but it probably did not pass by the management. Who must have made an economic decision whether they will facilitate the gay pound, or the straight pound. Not forgeting that the ONS stats on declared non straight individuals as a percentage of the population of young adults is likely to hit 10% at their next 5 years survey based upon the current rising trend between surveys. So thats in reality 1 in ten of the whole population with a more than just casual eye for their comrades.

Now I dont see that ought to be a problem for the straight guys, no reason for them to become involved in anything they dont want to. However, increasingly society is encouraging complete privacy in changing situations, kids are brought up now never to see each other naked. This trend continues into later life. Most people are brought up even shyer than I was when first presented with a room full of naked classmates at secondary school. You get used to it. Except, of course people now do not. Younger generations are far more confortable with diversity of sexuality, but also far more sensitive about retaining privacy and not being looked upon.

The 10% coming out of the closet has been met by a trend to design nudity out of sport.

[mercian]

Mar 25, 2023 19:32:08 GMT davwel said:

...
Then we wouldn`t have Anita Anand, blinkered to SE England, but doing Any Answers for the whole UK and now often Friday`s 5PM, dealing with a person ringing in to AA today, as from "Dumfermline in Scotland". None of her other numerous callers were consigned to "in England" but got their local or shire location given.

It`s as though Anita thinks there is one standard view that exists across the whole of Scotland, whereas for England there will be variation between Cumbria, Devon and Essex. So a person from Fife will not have a view on shipbuilding capability different from a person from Dumbartonshire, or on the NI protocal different from an Orangeman from Lanarkshire, and on religion different from someone who stays in the Western Isles.

Talk about chip on your shoulder, more like a log! I agree that she could have given the Scottish county, but to say someone is 'from Scotland' implies that she thinks that everyone from Scotland thinks the same is as ridiculous as saying that everyone from Devon thinks the same just because that is how they were introduced. 

[oldnat]

Mar 25, 2023 17:46:40 GMT peterbell said:

Reuters reporting that TASS have stated that Russia are to base tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus. Also sending 10 planes capable of carrying these weapons to Belarus.

Typical Kremlin posturing or are they raising the stakes. Would not be surprising as it looks as though they may well loose much of the land they have taken since 2014. Their recent attempts to move forward seem to have completely stalled with the loss of huge numbers of men and armaments. The imminent counterattack by Ukraine is likely to remove the land bridge in the east of the country and it only remains to destroy the Kerch bridge again and Russian troops would be without supplies. I read yesterday that Russian civilians have been advised to prepare to leave Crimea. This ties in with what I saw on the Prigozhin video I referred to on here in the past couple of days.

[Danny]

Mar 25, 2023 17:46:40 GMT peterbell said:

Reuters reporting that TASS have stated that Russia are to base tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus. Also sending 10 planes capable of carrying these weapons to Belarus.

Typical Kremlin posturing or are they raising the stakes. Would not be surprising as it looks as though they may well loose much of the land they have taken since 2014. Their recent attempts to move forward seem to have completely stalled with the loss of huge numbers of men and armaments. The imminent counterattack by Ukraine is likely to remove the land bridge in the east of the country and it only remains to destroy the Kerch bridge again and Russian troops would be without supplies. I read yesterday that Russian civilians have been advised to prepare to leave Crimea. This ties in with what I saw on the Prigozhin video I referred to on here in the past couple of days.

Russians were warned they might have to leave crimea some time ago. I think I agree we may now see another phase of the war, but Russia has had 9 months to prepare defences.

Surely the point about tactical nuclear weapons is that they are mobile, so announcing their presence in belarus is not about whether or not you are going to use them, but about seeking to scare people that you might.

[shevii]

Mar 25, 2023 18:58:23 GMT steve said:

Corrupt Tory Donkeys caught on camera.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/25/top-tory-mps-ask-for-10000-a-day-to-work-for-fake-korean-company

Kwarteng really having problems with his maths as well! We obviously don't know how much was discussed beforehand but you can see the greed in all their eyes when it gets to the fee.

[oldnat]

Mar 25, 2023 20:03:35 GMT shevii said:

Mar 25, 2023 18:58:23 GMT steve said:

Corrupt Tory Donkeys caught on camera.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/25/top-tory-mps-ask-for-10000-a-day-to-work-for-fake-korean-company

Kwarteng really having problems with his maths as well! We obviously don't know how much was discussed beforehand but you can see the greed in all their eyes when it gets to the fee.

Politicians taking advantage of their positions is not a new phenomenon, but the scale of it in some supposedly democratic countries has become a real threat to democracy.

Within the UK, while politicians of all parties have been involved in some unsavoury instances (often sexual in nature), I don't recall such financial corruption in any of the devolved administrations, or at Westminster until this current breed of Tories.

[graham]

Mar 25, 2023 20:13:42 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 20:03:35 GMT shevii said:

Kwarteng really having problems with his maths as well! We obviously don't know how much was discussed beforehand but you can see the greed in all their eyes when it gets to the fee.

Politicians taking advantage of their positions is not a new phenomenon, but the scale of it in some supposedly democratic countries has become a real threat to democracy.

Within the UK, while politicians of all parties have been involved in some unsavoury instances (often sexual in nature), I don't recall such financial corruption in any of the devolved administrations, or at Westminster until this current breed of Tories.

A 'lower form of life' indeed.

[davwel]

There is a campaign underway to save the BBC Singers, with an article from Julian Lloyd Webber in this week`s Radio Times pushing it along.

I have undecided views, since to me this is a London choir masquerading as for the whole UK, with some touring in its yearly programming. Would its cost not be better spent on say the Scottish Chamber Choir, performing as I write in Old St Paul`s, Edinburgh, with the excellent John Kitchen on organ. Or on the Halifax Choral Society or its Huddersfield rival. Other UK chamber choirs, but not full-time, such as the Sixteen, could also benefit from a slice of the money saved by shutting down the Maida Vale outfit.

What I don`t like is JLW`s wording - he complains that the Scotland and Wales BBC Orchestras "remain unaffected by these cuts although nobody bothered to ask why". Which may or may not be true, but why should a UK magazine carry such anti-Scotland/wales sentiments. JLM also has strange words on what has happened to "our nation`s beloved BBC" - he must believe that the BBC belongs to England.

[steamdrivenandy]

Mar 25, 2023 19:58:35 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 17:46:40 GMT peterbell said:

Reuters reporting that TASS have stated that Russia are to base tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus. Also sending 10 planes capable of carrying these weapons to Belarus.

Typical Kremlin posturing or are they raising the stakes. Would not be surprising as it looks as though they may well loose much of the land they have taken since 2014. Their recent attempts to move forward seem to have completely stalled with the loss of huge numbers of men and armaments. The imminent counterattack by Ukraine is likely to remove the land bridge in the east of the country and it only remains to destroy the Kerch bridge again and Russian troops would be without supplies. I read yesterday that Russian civilians have been advised to prepare to leave Crimea. This ties in with what I saw on the Prigozhin video I referred to on here in the past couple of days.

I suspect that Putin regards Belarus as part of Greater Russia, in the same way as he considers Ukraine and all the buffer states. To him it isn't deploying the weapons abroad. 

The other possibility is that it's a play out of Saddam Hussein's book but we all know how his pretence of WMD ended.

[mercian]

Mar 25, 2023 20:13:42 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 20:03:35 GMT shevii said:

Kwarteng really having problems with his maths as well! We obviously don't know how much was discussed beforehand but you can see the greed in all their eyes when it gets to the fee.

Politicians taking advantage of their positions is not a new phenomenon, but the scale of it in some supposedly democratic countries has become a real threat to democracy.

Within the UK, while politicians of all parties have been involved in some unsavoury instances (often sexual in nature), I don't recall such financial corruption in any of the devolved administrations, or at Westminster until this current breed of Tories.

Here's a reminder (NB all sorts of scandals, not just financial)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom

[pjw1961]

Mar 25, 2023 20:13:42 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 20:03:35 GMT shevii said:

Kwarteng really having problems with his maths as well! We obviously don't know how much was discussed beforehand but you can see the greed in all their eyes when it gets to the fee.

Politicians taking advantage of their positions is not a new phenomenon, but the scale of it in some supposedly democratic countries has become a real threat to democracy.

Within the UK, while politicians of all parties have been involved in some unsavoury instances (often sexual in nature), I don't recall such financial corruption in any of the devolved administrations, or at Westminster until this current breed of Tories.

Oh, I don't know. Now Murrell has resigned perhaps the truth will emerge about the £600k that disappeared from the SNP's accounts. 

[oldnat]

Mar 25, 2023 20:56:39 GMT pjw1961 said:

Mar 25, 2023 20:13:42 GMT oldnat said:

Politicians taking advantage of their positions is not a new phenomenon, but the scale of it in some supposedly democratic countries has become a real threat to democracy.

Within the UK, while politicians of all parties have been involved in some unsavoury instances (often sexual in nature), I don't recall such financial corruption in any of the devolved administrations, or at Westminster until this current breed of Tories.

Oh, I don't know. Now Murrell has resigned perhaps the truth will emerge about the £600k that disappeared from the SNP's accounts. 

And your evidence that the money "disappeared from the SNP's accounts" is

You would have been more "on the money" about internal party fraudulent behaviour if you had referenced Natalie McGarry, who was quite correctly jailed for it.

Still, your implicit defence of current Westminster corruption, by suggesting that everyone else is the same, is noted.

[oldnat]

Someone mentioned "gesture politics" upthread. This is a better example.

[neilj]

Trump gets even weirder

[johntel]

Mar 25, 2023 18:51:33 GMT Mark said:

Mar 25, 2023 17:46:40 GMT peterbell said:

Reuters reporting that TASS have stated that Russia are to base tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus. Also sending 10 planes capable of carrying these weapons to Belarus.

Typical Kremlin posturing or are they raising the stakes. Would not be surprising as it looks as though they may well loose much of the land they have taken since 2014. Their recent attempts to move forward seem to have completely stalled with the loss of huge numbers of men and armaments. The imminent counterattack by Ukraine is likely to remove the land bridge in the east of the country and it only remains to destroy the Kerch bridge again and Russian troops would be without supplies. I read yesterday that Russian civilians have been advised to prepare to leave Crimea. This ties in with what I saw on the Prigozhin video I referred to on here in the past couple of days.

Jesus! Escalation much?

Even if this just posturing, thee is only one way this could be viewed.

I must admit, this makes me nervous. I certainly wouldn't like to be living in Poland right now.

Why Poland Mark? London is top of Putin's target list.

Medvedev has made it clear that Russia will go nuclear if Crimea is threatened.  And Medvedev just says what he thinks Putin wants to hear. 

[oldnat]

Mar 25, 2023 21:27:56 GMT johntel said:

Mar 25, 2023 18:51:33 GMT Mark said:

Why Poland Mark? London is top of Putin's target list.

I'm impressed by your access to Russian strategic target lists, and its priority targets. I always said it was a mistake to base the UK's nukes on the Medway.

[johntel]

Mar 25, 2023 21:31:17 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:27:56 GMT johntel said:

Why Poland Mark? London is top of Putin's target list.

I'm impressed by your access to Russian strategic target lists, and its priority targets. I always said it was a mistake to base the UK's nukes on the Medway.

oldnat Well I don't see how tactical nuclear weapons can achieve anything for Putin. Once he goes nuclear he has to go all in and London is a lot closer than the US. 

Putin is a madman - we just have to hope that someone will get to him before he pushes the button. 

[oldnat]

Mar 25, 2023 21:36:55 GMT johntel said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:31:17 GMT oldnat said:

I'm impressed by your access to Russian strategic target lists, and its priority targets. I always said it was a mistake to base the UK's nukes on the Medway.

oldnat Well I don't see how tactical nuclear weapons can achieve anything for Putin. Once he goes nuclear he has to go all in and London is a lot closer than the US. 

Putin is a madman - we just have to hope that someone will get to him before he pushes the button. 

Ah! You are a flat-earther! That explains a lot.

[johntel]

Mar 25, 2023 21:49:31 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:36:55 GMT johntel said:

oldnat Well I don't see how tactical nuclear weapons can achieve anything for Putin. Once he goes nuclear he has to go all in and London is a lot closer than the US. 

Putin is a madman - we just have to hope that someone will get to him before he pushes the button. 

Ah! You are a flat-earther! That explains a lot.

lol yes I hadn't thought that one through. But I guess his 5,977 nuclear warheads are spread all round the globe anyway so no potential target will be far away from one.

[pjw1961]

Mar 25, 2023 21:11:40 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 20:56:39 GMT pjw1961 said:

Oh, I don't know. Now Murrell has resigned perhaps the truth will emerge about the £600k that disappeared from the SNP's accounts. 

And your evidence that the money "disappeared from the SNP's accounts" is

You would have been more "on the money" about internal party fraudulent behaviour if you had referenced Natalie McGarry, who was quite correctly jailed for it.

Still, your implicit defence of current Westminster corruption, by suggesting that everyone else is the same, is noted.

Nope, I oppose corruption everywhere, and have in fact been a whistle blower in local government. I was responding to the complacency of your post, which implied in typical fashion this was an 'English' problem.

As to the evidence, I would suggest asking Police Scotland, given they have been investigating it for getting on for 18 months. As I say, now Murrell has gone I can see a new leader wanting to draw a line under that affair and give a full account of exactly what it got spent on.   

[domjg]

Mar 25, 2023 21:31:17 GMT oldnat said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:27:56 GMT johntel said:

Why Poland Mark? London is top of Putin's target list.

I'm impressed by your access to Russian strategic target lists, and its priority targets. I always said it was a mistake to base the UK's nukes on the Medway.

The second Putin uses a tactical nuke in anger in Ukraine or anywhere he commits suicide.

[pjw1961]

Mar 25, 2023 21:27:56 GMT johntel said:

Mar 25, 2023 18:51:33 GMT Mark said:

Jesus! Escalation much?

Even if this just posturing, thee is only one way this could be viewed.

I must admit, this makes me nervous. I certainly wouldn't like to be living in Poland right now.

Why Poland Mark? London is top of Putin's target list.

Medvedev has made it clear that Russia will go nuclear if Crimea is threatened.  And Medvedev just says what he thinks Putin wants to hear. 

Medvedev's threat, for what it was worth, seemed to be directed at Ukraine itself, i.e. "invade Crimea and we will use battlefield nukes", rather than the west. I found it an interesting comment on Russia's weakness that Medvedev was even worried about a Ukrainian threat to Crimea. 

[jib]

Mar 25, 2023 21:57:57 GMT pjw1961 said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:11:40 GMT oldnat said:

And your evidence that the money "disappeared from the SNP's accounts" is

You would have been more "on the money" about internal party fraudulent behaviour if you had referenced Natalie McGarry, who was quite correctly jailed for it.

Still, your implicit defence of current Westminster corruption, by suggesting that everyone else is the same, is noted.

Nope, I oppose corruption everywhere, and have in fact been a whistle blower in local government. I was responding to the complacency of your post, which implied in typical fashion this was an 'English' problem.

As to the evidence, I would suggest asking Police Scotland, given they have been investigating it for getting on for 18 months. As I say, now Murrell has gone I can see a new leader wanting to draw a line under that affair and give a full account of exactly what it got spent on.   

It's rife. From the brown envelopes of the 90s to Jack "Are you suggesting £10,000 a month? make that … £12,000 a month. I think we could do a deal on that” Cunningham.

Lobbying is a cancer of modern politics, probably not just the modern either.

[johntel]

Mar 25, 2023 22:03:37 GMT domjg said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:31:17 GMT oldnat said:

I'm impressed by your access to Russian strategic target lists, and its priority targets. I always said it was a mistake to base the UK's nukes on the Medway.

The second Putin uses a tactical nuke in anger in Ukraine or anywhere he commits suicide.

I think he's well aware of that Dom. But what's he got to lose, his days are numbered anyway. And the frightening fact is that due to overwhelming weight of numbers a lot of his nuclear warheads will get through to their targets in the West.  

[johntel]

Mar 25, 2023 22:05:07 GMT pjw1961 said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:27:56 GMT johntel said:

Why Poland Mark? London is top of Putin's target list.

Medvedev has made it clear that Russia will go nuclear if Crimea is threatened.  And Medvedev just says what he thinks Putin wants to hear. 

Medvedev's threat, for what it was worth, seemed to be directed at Ukraine itself, i.e. "invade Crimea and we will use battlefield nukes", rather than the west. I found it an interesting comment on Russia's weakness that Medvedev was even worried about a Ukrainian threat to Crimea. 

Well he threatened Germany with a nuclear strike just 2 days ago  - apnews.com/article/medvedev-nuclear-putin-arrest-warrant-germany-ukraine-6dcde92e06f41a7c5cb7386f7939df33 

It's precisely because Russia is so weak on the conventional front that we have to take the nuclear threats seriously. My hope is that Russian troops can be pushed right out of Ukraine and that a deal will be negotiated to allow self-determination for Crimea. 

[oldnat]

Mar 25, 2023 21:57:57 GMT pjw1961 said:

Mar 25, 2023 21:11:40 GMT oldnat said:

And your evidence that the money "disappeared from the SNP's accounts" is

You would have been more "on the money" about internal party fraudulent behaviour if you had referenced Natalie McGarry, who was quite correctly jailed for it.

Still, your implicit defence of current Westminster corruption, by suggesting that everyone else is the same, is noted.

Nope, I oppose corruption everywhere, and have in fact been a whistle blower in local government. I was responding to the complacency of your post, which implied in typical fashion this was an 'English' problem.

As to the evidence, I would suggest asking Police Scotland, given they have been investigating it for getting on for 18 months. As I say, now Murrell has gone I can see a new leader wanting to draw a line under that affair and give a full account of exactly what it got spent on.   

Last time I looked, Westminster wasn't entirely "English", though it's membership is predominantly English Tories. I specifically stated that I didn't recall such levels of financial corruption at Westminster previous to the current breed of Tories in power, whether it was predominantly "English" Tory, or "English" Labour.

Of course, if you are assuring me that UK Parliament and UKGov are indeed "English" and operate solely/largely to England's advantage, it would be discourteous of me not to believe you.

It's always unfortunate when folk imagine that the "nation" with which they identify are under attack, when that clearly isn't the case. You must learn to control your sense of victimhood.

I do, however, note that you have withdrawn your charge that the cash was "missing from the SNP accounts". Whether Police Scotland consider that spending the money raised for the "Independence Fund" on other SNP purposes was in any way an offence, we may discover if they eventually report on the allegations.

EDIT : FYI The Scottish FM cannot end, or manipulate, a Police Scotland investigation in the way that UKGov appeared to be able to do with the Met Police in the Partygate enquiry.