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Post by jib on Mar 23, 2023 19:33:14 GMT
Is this the first time we've had a TUV supporter on this site? Bloody hell, you'll be accusing me of being a Freemason next. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 20:11:11 GMT
The reason we are in this situation is that for centuries this country has been led by rich people who have skewed the tax system so that they pay less than the rest of us who only receive PAYE wages. There have been attempts to tax wealth in the past, but they usually fail. The window tax was perhaps the most famous, and resulted in many windows being bricked up as can still be seen on old buildings. I also found out recently that the reason modern bricks are bigger than the ones on old mansions etc is because of the brick tax which meant that bricks suddenly became much bigger to reduce liability. I think we have to face facts and realise that most people's natural inclination is to pay as little tax as possible. Either legally or in some cases illegally. I certainly don't want to pay any more tax than I have to, though of course I recognise that some taxes have to be paid and I doubt if my affairs are maximally tax-efficient. Do you want a tax dodger (in a perfectly legal sense) as Prime Minister or someone who mucks in with everyone else, doing his bit (while still being disgustingly wealthy)?
Added to the green card and non-dom wife etc the optics of this are absolutely terrible. Maggie wouldn't have stood for it.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Mar 23, 2023 20:34:29 GMT
There have been attempts to tax wealth in the past, but they usually fail. The window tax was perhaps the most famous, and resulted in many windows being bricked up as can still be seen on old buildings. I also found out recently that the reason modern bricks are bigger than the ones on old mansions etc is because of the brick tax which meant that bricks suddenly became much bigger to reduce liability. But that's not a function of wealth taxes specifically and so not an argument against them. Tax avoidance lawyers and accountants are there to find ways for the rich to 'minimise' any tax you care to name. |
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Post by Mark on Mar 23, 2023 20:35:59 GMT
anyone know why is this happening when I try to add an attachment that is under 1mb? Error: This forum has exceeded its attachment space limit. Your file cannot be uploaded*** ADMIN *** This is happening as we were allocated an amount webspace for attachments when I started UKPR2, which we're currently very close to exhausting. There are two options available to me, delete some attachments to free up space or buy extra space from Proboards. I am opting to go for the delete option as buying more space would mean that I'd have to ask UKPR2 members for donations. I really don't want to go down that road and want to keep the board entirely free for all members. I will be deleting the oldest first. It will mean that some of the oldest posts may not make sense, but, they are the oldest and hardly ever read posts. I would prefer to keep a complete archive, but sadly, without asking for money, that is not possible. I will give members a week's grace before deleting anything, which sadly means that only the smallest attachments will be able to be posted in the interim, so, if you you want to retrieve something you atached ages ago, please do it now. Older attachments will be deleted on Wednesday 29th March. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 20:38:54 GMT
Talking of optics I think the tax returns thing will resonate massively with the public. From now on, every single time Sunak appears in public (if he dares to) the man/woman on the street is going to shout at him “why do you pay the same rate of tax as me? You're a multi-millionaire”. It’s horrendous. If I were his Malcolm Tucker I’d be beyond livid.
Also, it was pretty amateur trying to bury the tax returns by releasing them on Boris’ big day yesterday. We still all know about them and Starmer has one-upped him already by releasing his.
Schoolboy error expected of a schoolboy prime minister.
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Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
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Post by Mr Poppy on Mar 23, 2023 20:40:32 GMT
Rishi Sunak's £1m tax contribution shows he has served his country well
inews.co.uk/opinion/rishi-sunak-tax-contribution-served-country-well-2229356There are lots of countries where Rishi would pay a lot less tax than he does in UK, as plenty of countries don't charge any tax on non-property related capital gains (which is the bulk of Rishi's income and UK tax) IMO then 'rent seeking' income (eg anything to do with property beyond one's own primary residence) should be taxed at a person's marginal rate (which would be 45% in the case of Starmer's curious 'investment' in a share of a house for his sister). After that it does get a bit trickier. We clearly want people to invest in UK (eg the 'Full Expensing' on investments by businesses) and I'd much prefer people invest in UK, create jobs in UK, and pay some tax in UK than live somewhere else and pay less tax somewhere else. If 'investing' in UK was to be taxed at an individual's marginal tax rate then even Comrade McDonnell would accept that would create a 'behavioural adjustment' (LoC term for 'Laffer Curve') but of course we don't know where the inflection points on the Laffer Curve are. If someone knows what Starmer-Reeves intend to do WRT to taxing the 'income from wealth' then can they post the info. Wealth taxes are for the birds* and I'm not opposed to 'taxing the income from wealth' but I do think there needs to be some differentiation between 'investing' (good) and 'rent seeking' (bad) forms of income from wealth (and my inspired guess is that Starmer-Reeves are smart enough to understand the difference even if Starmer made a boo-boo with his own tax return info) * I note jib's valid point about the current situation with care homes. I'll avoid a lengthy comment but, in most cases, that is effectively a large inheritance tax payment and like inheritance tax generally, it could be avoided or at least reduced. UKPR2b is not the place for detailed tax advice but choosing to still be named as the 'owner' of an expensive property when you get to the age where care homes might become your next home is something people could plan to avoid (for a small fee I can explain how, although it should be pretty obvious and I do think the 'heirs' should then pay marginal rate tax on the income they receive by avoiding the 'wealth tax' of the current social care approach).
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Post by thylacine on Mar 23, 2023 20:53:25 GMT
anyone know why is this happening when I try to add an attachment that is under 1mb? Error: This forum has exceeded its attachment space limit. Your file cannot be uploaded*** ADMIN *** This is happening as we were allocated an amount webspace for attachments when I started UKPR2, which we're currently very close to exhausting. There are two options available to me, delete some attachments to free up space or buy extra space from Proboards. I am opting to go for the delete option as buying more space would mean that I'd have to ask UKPR2 members for donations. I really don't want to go down that road and want to keep the board entirely free for all members. I will be deleting the oldest first. It will mean that some of the oldest posts may not make sense, but, they are the oldest and hardly ever read posts. I would prefer to keep a complete archive, but sadly, without asking for money, that is not possible. I will give members a week's grace before deleting anything, which sadly means that only the smallest attachments will be able to be posted in the interim, so, if you you want to retrieve something you atached ages ago, please do it now. Older attachments will be deleted on Wednesday 29th March. A suggestion only partly in jest depending on how difficult such posts and attachments would be to target but could not all posts featuring COVID and associated attachments on this thread be deleted first. That I'm sure would free up massive amounts of space ? |
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Mr Poppy
Member
Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
Posts: 3,774
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Post by Mr Poppy on Mar 23, 2023 21:03:11 GMT
There have been attempts to tax wealth in the past, but they usually fail. The window tax was perhaps the most famous, and resulted in many windows being bricked up as can still be seen on old buildings. I also found out recently that the reason modern bricks are bigger than the ones on old mansions etc is because of the brick tax which meant that bricks suddenly became much bigger to reduce liability. I think we have to face facts and realise that most people's natural inclination is to pay as little tax as possible. Either legally or in some cases illegally. I certainly don't want to pay any more tax than I have to, though of course I recognise that some taxes have to be paid and I doubt if my affairs are maximally tax-efficient. 1a I sort of agree, but my personal view is that tax should target wealth, not income. 1b I would say that the opportunity to offset tax should be there. 2. It's sad that you can pay PAYE and NI all your life, and in your hour of need and you end up in a care home, the Local Authority can apply a punitive wealth tax and force you to sell your home to pay for end of life care. Your #2 partially contradicts your #1a and see my previous post that #2 is 'avoidable' (assuming you have heirs and you trust them). Wealth is very mobile (as places like France found out) and hence why Starmer-Reeves are looking to tax 'income from wealth'. As mercian points out then people have been finding ways to 'avoid' paying wealth taxes since well before the days of planes, internet and a global economy (where tax rates are not harmonised). There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and people trying to avoid both!  |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Mar 23, 2023 21:15:33 GMT
*** ADMIN *** This is happening as we were allocated an amount webspace for attachments when I started UKPR2, which we're currently very close to exhausting. There are two options available to me, delete some attachments to free up space or buy extra space from Proboards. I am opting to go for the delete option as buying more space would mean that I'd have to ask UKPR2 members for donations. I really don't want to go down that road and want to keep the board entirely free for all members. I will be deleting the oldest first. It will mean that some of the oldest posts may not make sense, but, they are the oldest and hardly ever read posts. I would prefer to keep a complete archive, but sadly, without asking for money, that is not possible. I will give members a week's grace before deleting anything, which sadly means that only the smallest attachments will be able to be posted in the interim, so, if you you want to retrieve something you atached ages ago, please do it now. Older attachments will be deleted on Wednesday 29th March. A suggestion only partly in jest depending on how difficult such posts and attachments would be to target but could not all posts featuring COVID and associated attachments on this thread be deleted first. That I'm sure would free up massive amounts of space ? That's wicked, but gave me a chortle. Do we have scores for who has posted the most somewhere? |
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Post by mercian on Mar 23, 2023 21:22:01 GMT
There have been attempts to tax wealth in the past, but they usually fail. The window tax was perhaps the most famous, and resulted in many windows being bricked up as can still be seen on old buildings. I also found out recently that the reason modern bricks are bigger than the ones on old mansions etc is because of the brick tax which meant that bricks suddenly became much bigger to reduce liability. But that's not a function of wealth taxes specifically and so not an argument against them. Tax avoidance lawyers and accountants are there to find ways for the rich to 'minimise' any tax you care to name. That's kind of the point I was making. It's not just the wealthy who try to avoid tax. There were lots of people who refused to pay the so-called Poll Tax, many tradesmen prefer to be paid in cash and one has to take it on trust that they declare it (hint: they probably don't). The wealthy will do the same and their resources enable them to be more sophisticated about it. Incidentally, I wonder what the definition of 'wealthy' is for most people? I suspect it is 'anyone with somewhat more than I'm ever likely to get'. |
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Post by bendo on Mar 23, 2023 21:23:45 GMT
BBC have clearly nailed their cards to the wall announcing that Sunaks tax bill dwarfs that of Starmer. No acknowledgement that Starmer paid significantly more as a percentage. Honesty the BBC couldn't be any more pro tory if they tried.
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Mar 23, 2023 21:29:22 GMT
A suggestion only partly in jest depending on how difficult such posts and attachments would be to target but could not all posts featuring COVID and associated attachments on this thread be deleted first. That I'm sure would free up massive amounts of space ? That's wicked, but gave me a chortle. Do we have scores for who has posted the most somewhere? |
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Post by Mark on Mar 23, 2023 21:32:53 GMT
A suggestion only partly in jest depending on how difficult such posts and attachments would be to target but could not all posts featuring COVID and associated attachments on this thread be deleted first. That I'm sure would free up massive amounts of space ? We don't have such constraints on posts - only attachments. While there are many, often lengthy, posts on covid - despite my repeated requests to keep them largely to the covid thread, they tend not to have attachments for the most part. (your post raised a smile here as well). |
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Mar 23, 2023 21:36:33 GMT
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Mar 23, 2023 21:38:28 GMT
Mark
Do tweets count as "attachments"?
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alurqa
Member
Freiburg im Breisgau's flag
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Post by alurqa on Mar 23, 2023 21:52:37 GMT
Mark
Do tweets count as "attachments"? It's unlikely. The BBCode is just a URL. This is your NATO-Finland link (with spaces around the square brackets to make it just show as text):
[ twitter url="https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1639016832920109063" ] |
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Mar 23, 2023 22:05:16 GMT
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Post by EmCat on Mar 23, 2023 22:11:28 GMT
Thread on new Ipsos Scotland poll
Summary -
Party net favourability:
SNP: -1 (-1)
Labour: -4 (-4)
Greens: -14 (-6)
Lib Dems: -22 (-4)
Conservatives: -42 (+2)
Interesting, particularly showing the changes from last time. That means that last time, SNP and Slab were both at net neutral, or "I may not have voted for them, but they are doing ok" level. SGP on a previous -8 could be down to "You're part of the government. At least try to have more impact / influence" SLD previous -18 "You have barely enough representation to be called a party" SCon previous -44 "No-one really likes them" I wonder whether the SCon improvement and the reduction for all the rest is simply because down in Westminster, they have been hogging all the news (people often forget why they have heard of someone / something, and tend to forget that sometimes, they have heard of it because of something bad, rather than something good. As exemplified by Captain Jack Sparrow in the first Pirates of the Caribbean film: "You are the worst pirate I have ever heard of!" "Ah, but you have heard of me") |
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oldnat
Member
Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
Posts: 6,131
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Post by oldnat on Mar 23, 2023 22:36:52 GMT
EmCat
At Holyrood, SLD don't count as a party, as you need 5 MSPs to gain that status.
For SGP, I suspect their drop may be down to socially conservative voters for SNP, previously positive towards SGP as an indy party, being concerned about their "dragging the SNP to a more radical stance".
In Scotland, few Tories had much time for Johnson or Truss, so Sunak demonstrating that he is neither of them will have returned SCon to merely being despised instead of loathed.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,721
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Mar 24, 2023 0:18:29 GMT
I suspect that most non-political people see Rishi Sunak in much the way they saw John Major. The only question is when the General Election finally comes will it be John Major (1992) or John Major (1997)? The upside for Labour I can see is that no-one can imagine Starmer doing a Neil Kinnock at the Sheffield Rally a week before the General Election. If it had not been for his triumphalism, we might have had a hung parliament or even a small Labour overall majority. If we're doing hypotheticals again then had Miliband avoided his sandwich incident then GE'15 outcome might have been a hung parliament, no EURef, no Brexit, etc. Well if they’re stooping to the sandwich level then it’s possible they would have found something else? |
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Post by Mark on Mar 24, 2023 0:23:06 GMT
Mark
Do tweets count as "attachments"? No, they don't. A tweet - or indeed any other link does not count towards the attachment total. An attachment is a file, usually a picture (jpg file) on here, that is actively uploaded to the board. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,721
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Mar 24, 2023 0:30:22 GMT
Mark
Do tweets count as "attachments"? No, they don't. A tweet - or indeed any other link does not count towards the attachment total. An attachment is a file, usually a picture (jpg file) on here, that is actively uploaded to the board. Mark, I don’t tend to use attachments but will the attachment limit affect profile pics which are uploaded? |
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Post by Mark on Mar 24, 2023 0:45:57 GMT
No, they don't. A tweet - or indeed any other link does not count towards the attachment total. An attachment is a file, usually a picture (jpg file) on here, that is actively uploaded to the board. Mark, I don’t tend to use attachments but will the attachment limit affect profile pics which are uploaded? It won't affect any profile pic already in use at all as they are alreay uploaded. In terms of changing your profile pic, probably not in most cases. Profile pics tend to be small and we still have a tiny amount of space left, plus, if you replace one with another, the pic you are replacing is being deleted so, subtracts from the attachment total. You may have problems changing your profile pic (until I delete older attachments on Wednesday) if (1) you replace your profile pic with something that is higher resolution (and therefore a larger file) or (2) if we run out of allocated space completely. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
Member
A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
Posts: 6,721
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Mar 24, 2023 0:53:08 GMT
Mark, I don’t tend to use attachments but will the attachment limit affect profile pics which are uploaded? It won't affect any profile pic already in use at all as they are alreay uploaded. In terms of changing your profile pic, probably not in most cases. Profile pics tend to be small and we still have a tiny amount of space left, plus, if you replace one with another, the pic you are replacing is being deleted so, subtracts from the attachment total. You may have problems changing your profile pic (until I delete older attachments on Wednesday) if (1) you replace your profile pic with something that is higher resolution (and therefore a larger file) or (2) if we run out of allocated space completely. Ah, ok, thanks for the info. Mark! |
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Post by peterbell on Mar 24, 2023 1:06:50 GMT
Unable to take any more of Carol Malone's voice and inane comments on Sky paper review tonight, I turned over to watch Question Time on BBC. Firstly, I would say that Fiona Bruce made a good job of chairing the program after the recent concerns re right wing bias. The first question was along the lines of "can Boris Johnson make a comeback". To this, the audience of a majority of Tory supporters voted almost unanimously no (one hand went up saying yes). Previously, it was a completely unanimous yes in response to, "did Boris lie to parliament".
My main reason for this post however was the pathetic display by Scottish Tory MP, Andrew Bowie. He was unable to respond to the comeback question skirting around it on the 3 occasions that Fiona Bruce asked him There was another occasion when he was asked a question 3 times without answering. Another time when not really answering the question, Fiona Bruce turned to him and said, "I will take that as a no then" At one point during the program a member of the audience said, "If you cannot answer the question, then shut your gob".
As I said earlier, he was absolutely pathetic. However, this seems to be standard fare for the Tories these days. They are either unable or frightened to answer questions. I would suggest that they are sent out by Central Office with the instruction, "skirt around the subject so that you can't be held responsible for your answer at some future date.
And we have to put up with this for another 18 months or so - frightening.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 24, 2023 7:09:36 GMT
Danny - "You keep basing your argument upon reports which looked at groups who had the worst outcomes to covid and extrapolating them to the rest of the population." That's a straightforward lie Danny - as I have previously explained on the covid thread. You are ignoring all the studies I posted about impacts of mild and asymptomatic covid, as I have already explained to you. It's as if you are deliberately trying to smear me, for some strange reason. Please desist from lying about and misrepresenting other posters. Any other comments you have, on the covid thread please. There actually seems to be some consensus here against you, that there are a number of medical reports which investigate the long term effects of covid identifying certain illnesses. However what you have not established is that everyone who has had covid will get these long term effects, or that the whole population is at risk of the same. On the contrary, the empirical real world evidence is that these effects are rare. You love making statements like 'look at this concerning report' implying it demonstrates severe illness imminently affecting large numbers of people, when actually it doesnt. This is not wikipedia. On wikipedia they have a rule that if 1000 experts say the world does not have night and day, and just 1 says it does, then anti day/nighters have it. On here however we use our own judgement that if the actual world has alternating light and dark, then those experts are talking rubbish. The only data we have says acute deaths from covid have fallen and continue to fall. There is no category of clearly identified long term deaths from long covid of any significance. The entire world reaction to the covid epidemic has been biased by inadequate information about its true severity. At the very outset China announced it had 100 people in hospital with a new disease and they were all very very ill. This gave the impression it was a truly dangerous disease with very high fatality percentages. This was total rubbish. The problem was the Chinese had not identified the thousands of cases which they did not detect where people had symptoms ranging from nothing to a week or two in bed, but never needed to involve medical services at all. On top of that, China didnt even report probably most of the cases which did seek medical attentions, for various reasons including medical ignorance and lack of confirmatory testing, and indeed political policy. In the spring 2020 outbreak, this ignorance cost lives. The NHS was told to expect half a million deaths and massive numbers of patients, so it triaged, and refused to treat the high risk patients from care homes. Or indeed those deemed to have least chance were refused ambulances to take them to hospital from home. People in hospital were refused intensive care, which stood idle. We refused to supply PPE to care homes and retirement homes, which is where it truly might have done some good! We built all those nightingale hospitals for expected demand...which never happened. We ordered thousands of ventilators which were never needed. Lockdown failed to reduce cases, there is plenty of evidence cases followed much the same pattern in areas where for one reason or another statutory interventions never happened. The surge of old people trying to stock up on goods ready for a lockdown caused massive overcrowding in supermarkets at a time covid was already established in the population and when no one was taking any sort of distancing precautions. This must have caused the surge of cases we saw in april 2020. It was a self fulfilling prophecy. Most of the avoidable harm from the covid epidemic came from how we responded to it, and in particular our excessive reaction. Now you want to do the same again. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Mar 24, 2023 7:12:18 GMT
Edit; It's Womans Hour isn't it?
Woman's hour seems to have missed out on some of the R4 censorship which seems to apply to news programs. Maybe its the Lineker effect, not counted as news journalists? |
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Danny
Member
Posts: 10,362
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Post by Danny on Mar 24, 2023 7:27:25 GMT
I watched it all and I thought the Committee missed a few questions. Notably on the basis for his belief that the assemblies complied with Social Distancing Guidelines. Not once did any of them say that this belief can only be valid if the mitigations for failure to social distance were in place and reasonable-and then ask him what mitigations were put in place. There was a brief opportunity to get him on this when Harman observed that glasses were presumably poured and passed from person to person. Johnson grunted and the moment passed. There is an elephant in this room which presumably all the MPs are ignoring. The background issue of whether any of these measures truly resulted in medical benefit for the individuals or population as a whole. The bottom line is probably that Johnson and the others never believed there was any point in the restrictions, and that is why they did not follow them. To raise this issue in public now however could be disastrous for both lab and con. |
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Danny
Member
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Post by Danny on Mar 24, 2023 7:34:58 GMT
Starmer either has crap accountants or his tax return for 2021/22 is wrong (or at best 'misleading'). It would seem to demonstrate precisely that everyone is better off avoiding having income and instead making capital gains, because capital growth is taxed much less than income. Which allows the rich with assets to escape most tax. Otherwise, I take your point that both starmer and Sunak's published information totally lacks detail of why they made the choices they did to minimise tax paid. The conclusion seems to be all MPs should be required to declare their full tax returns. Many MPs seem to be people who have already become rich or were always rich with family money, and fancied a go at playing with the national toy set. |
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Post by jimjam on Mar 24, 2023 8:06:14 GMT
Latest Teche UK:
''NEW POLL: Labour lead by 15.
Lab 46% (-1)
Con 31% (+1)
LibDem 8% (nc)
Reform 5% (nc)
Green 4% (nc)
SNP 4% (+1)
1,630 questioned on 22 & 23 March
+/- 15-16 March
Data - technetracker.co.uk pic.twitter.com/Etvz7HfFSg
24/03/2023, 07:59''
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