26-Nov 2022 : LAB: 50% / CON: 27% / LDEM: 9% / GRN: 4%

[thylacine]

Nov 30, 2022 21:30:16 GMT alec said:

c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "Remote controlled machines will be able to administer deadly force following an emotionally charged debate”

That's good. Presumably if you avoid debating with these machines in an emotionally charged manner, you'll be ok?

I don't recall Robocop doing much debating but I suppose he was a cyborg rather than a robot?

[mercian]

Nov 30, 2022 21:11:18 GMT hireton said:

Age breaks for the R&W Scottish independence poll shows majority support in all age groups except the over 65s:

That's interesting. Over 65s in UK as a whole were the age-group most in favour of Brexit, but in Scotland the same group are against independence from UK!  Does anyone know how Scottish over-65s voted in the Brexit referendum?

[mercian]

Nov 30, 2022 21:25:46 GMT @sotonsaint said:

Old posh people are racist shock..

(Still, it allows BBC News to put a white person's face on the main page of its website for a change).

I wonder if this is a bit of a misunderstanding - the old upper-class idea that where your 'people' are from is what matters - i.e. where is your family's country estate?

e.g. "Yes, yes, I know you were born in London, Crispin, and are working as an interior designer, but where are you FROM? Are you one of the Leicestershire Cholmondeleys?"  

EDIT: It's almost exactly what I thought. Here's a quote from The Sun
"She said she was horrified when Lady Susan approached her, moved her hair to see her name badge and asked: "Where do your people come from?""

So a bit insensitive in the modern world, but not at all malicious or racist.

[hireton]

Nov 30, 2022 22:00:09 GMT mercian said:

Nov 30, 2022 21:11:18 GMT hireton said:

Age breaks for the R&W Scottish independence poll shows majority support in all age groups except the over 65s:

That's interesting. Over 65s in UK as a whole were the age-group most in favour of Brexit, but in Scotland the same group are against independence from UK!  Does anyone know how Scottish over-65s voted in the Brexit referendum?

mercian

I've only see an analysis for over 55s which shows 54% of over 55s voted Remain in Scotland:

ukandeu.ac.uk/why-did-scotland-vote-to-remain/

[oldnat]

Nov 30, 2022 22:00:09 GMT mercian said:

Nov 30, 2022 21:11:18 GMT hireton said:

Age breaks for the R&W Scottish independence poll shows majority support in all age groups except the over 65s:

That's interesting. Over 65s in UK as a whole were the age-group most in favour of Brexit, but in Scotland the same group are against independence from UK!  Does anyone know how Scottish over-65s voted in the Brexit referendum?

I presume you mean what did polling say about their Brexit VI? Try here

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Scotland

Have looked only at the ICM one which had the 65+ group then (the over 70s now) at Remain 50% : Leave 43%

[pjw1961]

The Ashcroft polling is full of interesting things and one that caught my eye was that he has done one of those "word cloud" exercises on Sunak and Starmer but then stratified it by four social categories which, paraphrasing somewhat, could be called: prosperous LoC (also overwhelmingly remainers), prosperous RoC, insecure LoC and insecure RoC (latter overwhelmingly Brexit). He has allocated the main parties to each of these positions, although clearly there is no suggestion that everybody in those social categories votes exclusively for those parties. Nevertheless, it does give a clue as to how the two leaders are viewed by different social groups and there are some interesting findings.

Prosperous LoC (Lib Dem; Green) - Sunak: Smooth, Best of a bad bunch;
Starmer: calm, steady, competent, honest, integrity, intelligent, lawyer, good, fair

Insecure LoC (Labour; SNP) - Sunak: Liar, useless, selfish, stuck up, corrupt, out of touch, rich, Conservative;
Starmer: Spineless, too moderate, better than a Tory, Labour, fair

Prosperous RoC (Conservatives) - Sunak: Competent, intelligent, strong, calm, good, hope, financial experience, unsure, Prime Minister
Starmer: Weak, rich, Sir, boring, unsure

Insecure RoC (Brexit Party/Refuk) - Sunak: Foreigner, backstabber, snake
Starmer: Useless, dishonest, hindsight, smarmy, invisible

So Starmer is most popular with liberal middle class remainer types but viewed with suspicion by more traditional Labour voters (which might explain why he is currently at such pains to court them). Conservatives love Sunak, but nobody else is very impressed (with an element of racism from brexit types who have clearly not forgiven his role in ousting their hero 'Boris'). Across the political divide the prosperous are reasonably comfortable with both leaders, the insecure suspicious of both.

[mandolinist]

There was a by-election today in Sunbury Common and Ashford Common division of Spelthorne Borough Council. I only know this because a member of my family lives there and complained that they knew nothing about it until they spotted their usual polling station open whilst out for a run. No Polling Cards nor any other notification was received. Quite angry doesn't do justice to their response. With younger members of society no longer watching local news on television or reading local papers the councils have to find alternative ways to inform the electorate. No wonder turnout is so low in these elections.

[oldnat]

Another aspect of polling on indy is the shift in gender support.

Before the 2014 referendum, YG said "If only men were voting, Scotland would choose independence by 54-46 per cent. Among women, No holds a clear 57-43 per cent lead."

Now females are more pro-indy. In the R&W poll 
Males Yes 45% : No 50%
Females Yes 54% : No 41%

[mercian]

Nov 30, 2022 22:19:03 GMT oldnat said:

Nov 30, 2022 22:00:09 GMT mercian said:

That's interesting. Over 65s in UK as a whole were the age-group most in favour of Brexit, but in Scotland the same group are against independence from UK!  Does anyone know how Scottish over-65s voted in the Brexit referendum?

I presume you mean what did polling say about their Brexit VI? Try here

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Scotland

Have looked only at the ICM one which had the 65+ group then (the over 70s now) at Remain 50% : Leave 43%

Thanks for that. It's made me realise that what I meant to ask was 'were Scottish older folks more Leave-inclined than younger ones', which would have mirrored the UK result. If so, it seems interesting that the same group are more in favour of staying in the UK.    

[Mr Poppy]

Nov 30, 2022 20:58:36 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

Nov 28, 2022 21:56:26 GMT Mr Poppy said:

Well, there’s an argument that as you add more wind turbines in different locations, then it increases the likelihood of catching some wind and it behaves increasingly like a single constant source, but not sure how that really works out in practice.

I assume you don't mean the entire World but fortunately we do have a huge amount of data about wind patterns across UK and 'always windy somewhere' is not how weather in our little bit of the Planet or even across Europe works (at least not reliably enough) - see Energy thread for links and happy to discuss further there. 

[steve]

Today's lies from the "honest and professional" regime, restoring integrity Sunak style.

youtu.be/DGi4KEVZluA

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

Nov 30, 2022 21:30:16 GMT alec said:

c-a-r-f-r-e-w - "Remote controlled machines will be able to administer deadly force following an emotionally charged debate”

That's good. Presumably if you avoid debating with these machines in an emotionally charged manner, you'll be ok?

Well it’s possible, but in my experiences of dealing with tech, I find it can on occasion rapidly render me emotionally charged. Still, if you try it, let us know how you get on. I shall be offering encouragement and support, from a safe distance (the distance depending on who’s got the remote control). 

Eddie Izzard on technology 

youtu.be/TKQzqwn-jIM

and…

youtu.be/N1ug9-rhSs4

[oldnat]

Nov 30, 2022 22:33:29 GMT mercian said:

Nov 30, 2022 22:19:03 GMT oldnat said:

I presume you mean what did polling say about their Brexit VI? Try here

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#Scotland

Have looked only at the ICM one which had the 65+ group then (the over 70s now) at Remain 50% : Leave 43%

Thanks for that. It's made me realise that what I meant to ask was 'were Scottish older folks more Leave-inclined than younger ones', which would have mirrored the UK result. If so, it seems interesting that the same group are more in favour of staying in the UK.    

I sympathise! It's harder than folk might think to ask a question which will elicit the answer that you actually wanted.

Yes. Older folk were more likely to vote Leave, and that tendency seemed to increase the older they were - though (from memory) Remain were always in the majority.

[pjw1961]

Nov 30, 2022 22:30:29 GMT mandolinist said:

There was a by-election today in Sunbury Common and Ashford Common division of Spelthorne Borough Council. I only know this because a member of my family lives there and complained that they knew nothing about it until they spotted their usual polling station open whilst out for a run. No Polling Cards nor any other notification was received. Quite angry doesn't do justice to their response. With younger members of society no longer watching local news on television or reading local papers the councils have to find alternative ways to inform the electorate. No wonder turnout is so low in these elections.

Which is the answer to those posters who wondered/complained about political parties campaigning in local by-elections. If you ignore the voters they get annoyed (they also sometimes get annoyed if you don't leave them alone, but that's people for you  ). 

[c-a-r-f-r-e-w]

Nov 30, 2022 22:33:33 GMT Mr Poppy said:

Nov 30, 2022 20:58:36 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

Well, there’s an argument that as you add more wind turbines in different locations, then it increases the likelihood of catching some wind and it behaves increasingly like a single constant source, but not sure how that really works out in practice.

I assume you don't mean the entire World but fortunately we do have a huge amount of data about wind patterns across UK and 'always windy somewhere' is not how weather in our little bit of the Planet or even across Europe works (at least not reliably enough) - see Energy thread for links and happy to discuss further there. 

Yeah, I haven’t really looked at it, partly because more interested in things like what’s the best way to add loads more energy via developing nuclear tech, the possibility of solar arrays in orbit etc., easily attainable stuff like that (!!)

[oldnat]

Nov 30, 2022 23:17:06 GMT c-a-r-f-r-e-w said:

Nov 30, 2022 22:33:33 GMT Mr Poppy said:

I assume you don't mean the entire World but fortunately we do have a huge amount of data about wind patterns across UK and 'always windy somewhere' is not how weather in our little bit of the Planet or even across Europe works (at least not reliably enough) - see Energy thread for links and happy to discuss further there. 

Yeah, I haven’t really looked at it, partly because more interested in things like what’s the best way to add loads more energy via developing nuclear tech, the possibility of solar arrays in orbit  etc., easily attainable stuff like that (!!)

Surely "solar arrays in orbit" don't provide energy security, as the evil EU Federal Superstate would just put some lower orbit mirrors in place to move that energy to them, and deny Britain its rightful place in the sun?

(I do apologise. I've been reading too many jib comments)

[oldnat]

Warning for those in SW England

Andrew Bowie is obviously looking for a transfer to your area, in anticipation of the imminent decease of his political career in Scotland.

There are perfectly respectable Tories in existence, He isn't one of them.

[mandolinist]

Nov 30, 2022 22:47:59 GMT pjw1961 said:

Nov 30, 2022 22:30:29 GMT mandolinist said:

There was a by-election today in Sunbury Common and Ashford Common division of Spelthorne Borough Council. I only know this because a member of my family lives there and complained that they knew nothing about it until they spotted their usual polling station open whilst out for a run. No Polling Cards nor any other notification was received. Quite angry doesn't do justice to their response. With younger members of society no longer watching local news on television or reading local papers the councils have to find alternative ways to inform the electorate. No wonder turnout is so low in these elections.

Which is the answer to those posters who wondered/complained about political parties campaigning in local by-elections. If you ignore the voters they get annoyed (they also sometimes get annoyed if you don't leave them alone, but that's people for you  ). 

I did point out that it meant their votes would carry extra weight, they dutifully trogged off to vote at 8:45pm. I know people have posted the site previously, but is there somewhere all these by-elections are listed?

[eor]

mandolinist - on the polling card thing, do you know from your relative whether the issue was that they did not receive theirs for whatever reason, or were none actually sent? Is that an option that councils have these days?

pjw1961 - "If you ignore the voters they get annoyed" - my better half takes the position that they are casting their vote not between the candidates in the poll but between the candidates who at least make the effort of sending some kind of communication to explain why they should be elected.

[eor]

Nov 30, 2022 13:23:03 GMT robbiealive said:

Nov 30, 2022 1:24:59 GMT oldnat said:

robbiealive

It is certainly a valid analysis to look at which board members would support Labour in a UK election, and who wouldn't.

It would be equally valid to look at which board members would support Tories in a UK election, and who wouldn't, or support REFUK in a UK election, and who wouldn't, or support the Lib Dems a UK election, and who wouldn't, or support the SNP in a UK election, and who wouldn't, or support the DUP or SF or Alliance in a UK election, and who wouldn't, or any other binary comparison.

The choices available vary across the 4 polities within the UK, so a simple Anglocentric approach would seem to be of little value, even to simple Anglocentrics.

Most on this board can't vote SNP, PC, SF, DUP, Alliance etc - even if they wanted to. Those resident outwith England might make very different choices if they were in that green and pleasant land (I would vote English Green, if a candidate was available).

The level of antipathy to other parties tends to be on a sliding scale. For example, I have never voted SCon and never will. I have been a member of, campaigned and voted for Scottish Liberals and SLab in the past, and might even do so again if their English equivalents offered EU membership and extensive guaranteed powers for the Scottish Parliament.

The fondness for binary options is what has prevented the introduction of PR. It suits the establishment.

I don't get yr point.

1. I produced a few stats to mark the 1st anniversary of the site & with ref to crossbat11 asking whether it were true, as the ROCs have it, that it's a Labour-voting echo chamber ",,. [with] an overall left-leaning groupthink that pervades it".
2. To comment on Crossbat's question I chose, faute de mieux, to make a binary comparison between those who vote Labour & those who do not. The stats show a small no. of posters -- the Club21 -- dominate posting (72%) & that these posts are divided equally between Labour voters, on the one hand, and, on the other, Tory & Nat anti-Labour posters as well as 1 Lib-Dem & some non-aligned posters. This provided some evidence for scepticism about the echo chamber.

Thank you for producing that info, I found it very interesting in itself in terms of quantifying how much of the posting is done by a relatively small group.

But on the data itself, crossbat11 didn't say ROC posters claim "a Labour-voting echo chamber", he said "a left wing echo chamber". And whilst he went on to mention anti-Labour posters, that there are many LOC posters who prefer alternative LOC parties to Labour or who criticise the current direction of the UK Labour leadership doesn't do anything to affect whether ROC posters are in a "beleaguered minority" or not.

Your analysis that of the 21 posters with 1000+ posts there are 3 ROC, 14 LOC** and 4 Misc does seem to bear that out rather than debunk it. Likewise your further analysis that the 2000+ club has 2 ROC, 7 LOC and @danny seems to back up that the bulk of the posts are LOC, as well as the bulk of the posters.

(**if any of the "Lib" and "Nat" posters referenced by robbiealive, who I presume are steve, oldnat and hireton, dispute being grouped as LOC then please accept my apologies and surprise in equal measure!)

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2022 0:20:55 GMT oldnat said:

Warning for those in SW England

Andrew Bowie is obviously looking for a transfer to your area, in anticipation of the imminent decease of his political career in Scotland.

There are perfectly respectable Tories in existence, He isn't one of them.

Happy if he restricts his compass to Bristol. The city is pretty solid LAB, and they will be looking to regain neighbouring Kingswood, too, (the seat of Chris Skidmore, who has already announced he is standing down). 

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2022 22:30:29 GMT mandolinist said:

There was a by-election today in Sunbury Common and Ashford Common division of Spelthorne Borough Council. I only know this because a member of my family lives there and complained that they knew nothing about it until they spotted their usual polling station open whilst out for a run. No Polling Cards nor any other notification was received. Quite angry doesn't do justice to their response. With younger members of society no longer watching local news on television or reading local papers the councils have to find alternative ways to inform the electorate. No wonder turnout is so low in these elections.

Kwasi Kwarteng is the local MP. It's pretty solidly Tory, but I wonder if his part in trashing the economy might have had any traction with the man on the Spelthorne omnibus.

[steve]

That local election
Boparai, Harry Liberal Democrats 735 E
Couchman, Helen Elizabeth Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition 63
Islam, Naz The Conservative Party Candidate 720
Mustafa, Khalid Labour Party 383
O'Brien, Rory Reform UK 144
Total number of votes recorded represented 17.5%of

Lib dems win by just 15 votes

Despite the poor turn out that's actually a huge gain for the liberal democrats receiving 100 more votes than at the local elections and overcoming a tory majority of 899

Apparently the lib dem local party managed to inform its supporters.

[moby]

Nov 30, 2022 22:05:01 GMT mercian said:

Nov 30, 2022 21:25:46 GMT @sotonsaint said:

Old posh people are racist shock..

(Still, it allows BBC News to put a white person's face on the main page of its website for a change).

I wonder if this is a bit of a misunderstanding - the old upper-class idea that where your 'people' are from is what matters - i.e. where is your family's country estate?

e.g. "Yes, yes, I know you were born in London, Crispin, and are working as an interior designer, but where are you FROM? Are you one of the Leicestershire Cholmondeleys?"  

EDIT: It's almost exactly what I thought. Here's a quote from The Sun
"She said she was horrified when Lady Susan approached her, moved her hair to see her name badge and asked: "Where do your people come from?""

So a bit insensitive in the modern world, but not at all malicious or racist.

Here's the full exchange. Quite shocking and totally unacceptable imo:-


Fulani wrote on Twitter: “Mixed feelings about yesterday’s visit to Buckingham Palace. 10 mins after arriving, a member of staff, Lady SH, approached me, moved my hair to see my name badge. The conversation below took place. The rest of the event is a blur.”

She then described the conversation:

Lady SH: Where are you from?

Me: Sistah Space.

SH: No, where do you come from?

Me: We’re based in Hackney.

SH: No, what part of Africa are YOU from?

Me: I don’t know, they didn’t leave any records.

SH: Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?

Me: Here, UK

SH: NO, but what Nationality are you?

Me: I am born here and am British.

SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?

Me: ‘My people’, lady, what is this?

SH: Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from. When did you first come here?

Me: Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50s when …

SH: Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end, you’re Caribbean!

Me: No Lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.

SH: Oh, so you’re from 

[steve]

moby
I've experienced the " where are you really from" question admittedly not remotely as often as my Afro Caribbean origin foster son.

Sometimes it's entirely inoffensive, my Egyptian dentist thought I was Egyptian and asked the are your family from there follow up.
My son was questioned by a taxi driver in Salou Spain who turned out to be from the same town as his cousin.

But sometimes it's not it's just racist and in no circumstances is it appropriate to engage in some sort of unasked for impromptu edition of " who do you think you are".

[steve]

Another Brexit bonus higher food bills.
Why didn't they put that on the side of the big red bullshit bus?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/01/brexit-added-nearly-6bn-to-uk-food-bills-in-two-years-research-finds

[moby]

Dec 1, 2022 7:20:10 GMT steve said:

moby
I've experienced the " where are you really from" question admittedly not remotely as often as my Afro Caribbean origin foster son.

Sometimes it's entirely inoffensive, my Egyptian dentist thought I was Egyptian and asked the are you're family from there follow up.
My son was questioned by a taxi driver in Salou Spain who turned out to be from the same town as his cousin.

But sometimes it's not it's just racist and in no circumstances is it appropriate to engage in some sort of unasked for impromptu edition of " who do you think you are".

The full text gives it context. Susan Hussey felt entitled to touch Ms Fulani, move her hair aside to see her badge and then embark on her "Where are you really from" enquiry; giving no thought to how her questioning was being received, she ploughed on regardless.

[alec]

From Mr Poppy - "I assume you don't mean the entire World but fortunately we do have a huge amount of data about wind patterns across UK and 'always windy somewhere' is not how weather in our little bit of the Planet or even across Europe works (at least not reliably enough) - see Energy thread for links and happy to discuss further there."

It's always entertaining to see Trevor pick up things from posters he pretends to ignore and then proceed to teach granny to suck eggs. We first introduced duration curves to the collective around five years ago, from memory, in response to regular posts suggesting there were extensive periods without wind power from any given wind farm, so that feels like a bit of education well delivered.

The link Trevor posted from Energynumbers.info giving load duration factors for the specific wind farms was very useful though, and not one I had previously seen - I've learned something, which is great, and much appreciated.

However, as c-a-r-f-r-e-w says, it's as much about spatial variation as anything else, and an average load duration curve for the whole offshore wind sector tells you very little. Even comparing the LDCs from individual wind farms doesn't add very much, because you need to know how they compare with each other on a temporal basis.

Trevor's statement that 'always windy somewhere' can't be relied on is true, but only up to a point. It's very rare to have a high pressure system flattening the wind across the entire UK, ever rarer to have this extend to the Norwegian sector, the Bay of Biscay, the west coast of Ireland etc. Looking at the GFS charts, there is some reasonable wind at present in parts of the northern Irish Sea, for example, with an arc of 20mph+ winds extending up the west coast of Scotland and around the north and extending down the east coast to the First of Forth. Around most of the coast of England, it's pretty flat, and this pattern is quite common.

The spatial variation is what makes the grid structure so important, and this is where the UK has failed miserably over the last decade or so. The wind intermittency issue is actually more about having the ability to move power around as about having periods of insufficient power overall, although that latter scenario can happen. The wider you spread your connectivity, the less of a problem this becomes. It's one of the reasons wind farms earn so much from balancing payments when they are asked to shut down production because of grid saturation.

The Conservatives failure has been the incredible delay to constructing a suitably high capacity and robust network to move the power we have. National Grid has been hopeless on this, failing to develop the network in a timely manner and idling the years away while the capacity crisis brewed. None of this is rocket science, but the combination of a disinterested government that wanted to 'get rid of the green crap' and the belief that a privatised network system was efficient have hamstrung the UK's response. We are only now going through planning for two new high voltage DC connectors between Scotland and England (see here for details of the SEG1 link www.nationalgrid.com/electricity-transmission/document/136836/download ) but these won't be up and running until 2028. The concept for these links was established well before 2010, when we actually had an energy plan, and the delay is an abject failure that has cost the country billions. Likewise with the development of longer range interconnectors to other national systems.

Get the network right, and the intermittency problem fades away, not completely, but very substantially. The UK's strategic approach to future energy needs has been very poor, and we're playing catch up now, and the combination of years of poor governance followed by Brexit swallowing all the establishment's attention have left us exposed to the well known issues around renewables.

[hireton]

alec

Re development of vaccines in the UK, Kate Bingham had this to say to Das Welt:

"“Brussels put in place a comprehensive process to explore vaccines of all modalities with a budget for advanced purchase agreements, capacity reservations etc. They continue to engage constructively with vaccine companies. And the UK has gone the opposite direction”

I also noted this in her remarks reported in the UK:

"To begin with, I thought it was lack of experience of officials since we don’t have a lot of people within Whitehall who understand vaccines, relationships with industry, all of that, but actually, I’m beginning to think this is deliberate government policy, just not to invest or not to support the sector,” 

[Danny]

Nov 30, 2022 22:05:01 GMT mercian said:

Nov 30, 2022 21:25:46 GMT @sotonsaint said:

Old posh people are racist shock..

(Still, it allows BBC News to put a white person's face on the main page of its website for a change).

I wonder if this is a bit of a misunderstanding - the old upper-class idea that where your 'people' are from is what matters - i.e. where is your family's country estate?

e.g. "Yes, yes, I know you were born in London, Crispin, and are working as an interior designer, but where are you FROM? Are you one of the Leicestershire Cholmondeleys?"  

EDIT: It's almost exactly what I thought. Here's a quote from The Sun
"She said she was horrified when Lady Susan approached her, moved her hair to see her name badge and asked: "Where do your people come from?""

So a bit insensitive in the modern world, but not at all malicious or racist.

Oh dear. That actually sounds quite credible given her background. If anyone in the country was going to have that meaning behind their words, it would be a friend of the late queen sharing the same background.

Regarding the longer conversation posted, is that a transcript of a recording or does the person have an amazing memory? If its not a transcript, the problem would be whether the two sides of the conversation understood the words the same way so whether they might have been altered in recollection.

However, on face value they dont seem altogether as if SH is entirely on the same page as everyones else. She is quite old. My late mother was always going on about my sister going dogging, by which she meant walking the dog. No amount of tactful explanation could dissuade her.


But also, I could well imagine this rather mirrors how the queen might have apporached someone who didnt answer her question. I don't think SH realised there was an issue in asking someone where their origins lie, and I could imagine the queen visiting a youth club in London 50 years ago asking kids where their families came from.

I think the royal family has rather over reacted and not sure thats going to help.

Whats also maybe interesting is that if I had been asked this question I would probably also have been initially puzzled, but once I did I would have explained my ancestral background. Am I not offended because I am white and she is offended because she is black? So the offence does not lie in the words but only because of who was asked? Doesnt that suggest the whole affair existed in the mind of Fulani, whereas SH could have been clueless?