domjg
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Post by domjg on Sept 5, 2022 12:35:13 GMT
"You do realise that the Thatcher government was 40 years ago?" - Tell that to our new PM. She seems to have made a note of what the former was wearing from one day to the next. Hadn't got you down as a student of the clothing worn by Tory female leaders. ! You just never know about people -do you ?  It was fairly widely reported  |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 5, 2022 12:36:03 GMT
And for the Scots amongst us, she gets 47.1% of the eligible vote, so no cigar there. |
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Post by leftieliberal on Sept 5, 2022 12:36:48 GMT
@danny Thatcher levelled up millions by selling publicly owned housing at a loss to the then occupiers while insuring that future generations of renters would be priced out of affordable accommodation by not replacing the lost stock. Bringing Basic rate tax down from 33% to 22(?)% was pretty good at helping the low paid in particular. At the same time she brought the top tax rate down from 83% (98% on unearned income) to 40%. I think the highest earners still did the best under Thatcher. And, by the way under Thatcher the Basic rate of income tax only reached 25% in 1988, not your assertion of 22%. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Sept 5, 2022 12:40:10 GMT
Closer than expected, but still a fairly comfortable win. While we got the expected result, the wider point for me, is this...the tories have a whopping great majority and no shortage of MPs to chosse from. Is Liz Truss the best they could come up wih? Seriously? The 'talent pool' though is not the whole of the parliamentary party or even all of the payroll. It's limited to the small group of brexit loyalist ultras who like Golom cradling the ring cannot risk letting anyone less 'committed' anywhere near govt lest they water down the precious brexit. It will cost them dear in the end. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 12:41:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 12:43:34 GMT
Hadn't got you down as a student of the clothing worn by Tory female leaders. ! You just never know about people -do you ? It was fairly widely reported What in ? Womens' Weekly ? Country Life ? |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 5, 2022 12:44:21 GMT
It was notable that when Truss paused after delivering her paean to Johnson in her acceptance speech there was a noticeable silence followed by weak applause from the party audience. She also used the Russian pronunciation for Kyev, not that she should know the sensitivity surrounding this, she was only Foreign Secretary after all. |
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 5, 2022 12:48:11 GMT
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Post by leftieliberal on Sept 5, 2022 12:50:40 GMT
In the last thread ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/48649 c-a-r-f-r-e-w said "Depends what you’re buying it for. If you’re expecting unbiased news content then yeah, might be disappointing. If you want to know more about the particular biases, instead of just getting the Guardian bias, then that’s something else. (The Guardian was very disappointing back when they were backing austerity but few complaints from some. Few complaints when they were trashing Labour under Corbyn. It was disappointing despite being free). And each paper tends to do more of a particular thing outside politics. Times might have more book reviews, more classical Music reviews etc., you can compare film reviews in Guardian and Times etc." I did take out a subscription to Prospect under its new editor (Alan Rusbridger) at the end of last year but won't be renewing it. I was promised a deeper analysis that wasn't tied to the rolling news timescales, but I haven't seen it and on several occasions I have had cause to complain about articles peddling simplistic assumptions about what VI means for seats in parliament. Thanks to UKPR2, I do, at least have the information to be able to tell when writers phone in their copy, rather than properly research it. |
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Post by hireton on Sept 5, 2022 12:53:47 GMT
If 10,464 voters switched sides, Truss would have lost, so one way of looking at this is that our next PM has effectively been chosen by 6% of the tiny electorate of the Tory party. Once again though, much as I dislike Truss, I would suggest we are seeing a prejudiced coverage here. The BBC and others never added the constant rider to Johnson's many utterances that are doing now to Truss, which is 'how is she going to pay for this?'. Johnson, male, was afforded a significant air of credibility that is being denied Truss, female, who is simply stating the same grade of boosterish tosh that her predecessor got away with. Perhaps more significant for the immediate future is that if 5 MPs who voted for Truss in the final parliamentary party voting round had voted for Mordaunt she wouldn't have been in the run off against Sunak. Truss has a very weak base in the parliamentary party and the leaks about her Cabinet appointments suggest she won't be doing anything to change that any time soon. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 5, 2022 12:57:52 GMT
mercian Cutting the basic rate while increasing stealth taxes and cutting services. Not quite as good as reducing the higher rate from 83% to 40% for her and her chums though was it.
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Post by hireton on Sept 5, 2022 12:59:07 GMT
Another kite being flown by the Truss camp is that she wants to increase the income tax threshold for paying the higher rate in England and Northern Ireland to £80,000 ( currently just over £50,000).
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 5, 2022 13:02:31 GMT
An American journo watches Truss's acceptance speech.
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Post by jayblanc on Sept 5, 2022 13:07:13 GMT
Ian Duncan Smith was made leader from a membership vote of 155,993.
David Cameron, from 134,446.
Boris Johnson, from 92,153.
Liz Truss, from 81,326.
Total turnout for the vote has dropped from 1997 from 256,797 to just 141,725.
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Post by davwel on Sept 5, 2022 13:12:56 GMT
The BBC, as could be expected, went totally overboard in reporting the Tory leadership election.
But in the 45 min of W@One on R4 they didn`t manage to fit in the key new info from the poll: that Truss failed to secure a majority of the Tory members eligible to vote. Instead Sarah Montague told a blatant lie, that Truss had secured support from 57% of the Tory electorate.
We laughed when at 1.24 pm Montague said "and now we turn to Liz Truss" after she had been a full 20 min of coverage.
I noticed that Truss`s top intention was delivering on tax cuts, but she made no mention of delivering fair pay rises for the public sector. She spoke of giving everybody control of their own destiny, and clearly what she meant was the removal of democracy allowing farRight MPs (by an accident of the actual delivering UK constitution) to take control of management and policies in Scotland, irrespective of opinion here.
As for Truss`s mention of Johnson`s popularity bounded by Carlisle, I wasn`t sure if the first place of the range was Plymouth - her dialect isn`t universally clear.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Sept 5, 2022 13:15:51 GMT
Ian Duncan Smith was made leader from a membership vote of 155,993. David Cameron, from 134,446. Boris Johnson, from 92,153. Liz Truss, from 81,326. Total turnout for the vote has dropped from 1997 from 256,797 to just 141,725. |
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Post by mercian on Sept 5, 2022 13:16:30 GMT
She speaks like a low level manager in a department store gearing her staff up for a busy Saturday. Still, there was one tangible item in her speech - no snap election. 2024 is the year! Unless circumstances change... |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Sept 5, 2022 13:18:58 GMT
It was fairly widely reported What in ? Womens' Weekly ? Country Life ? You're pretty adept at trawling the web. One for you I reckon |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 13:20:47 GMT
It was fairly widely reported What in ? Womens' Weekly ? Country Life ? Gosh, this really bothers you doesn’t it? I have no interest myself but do remember that it was widely observed in the media at the time. |
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Post by alec on Sept 5, 2022 13:25:08 GMT
mercian - "Bringing Basic rate tax down from 33% to 22(?)% was pretty good at helping the low paid in particular." Basic rate income tax fell from 33% in '79 to 25% in '89, but NI rose from 6.5% to 9%, so the overall gain was 5.5%. The starting thresholds also didn't rise in line with inflation, so that further eroded the gains. VAT rose from 8% to 15% over that time.
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 5, 2022 13:29:48 GMT
I think it's very brave of the Tories to put a physically challenged individual( paralyzed from the neck up) in as our new unelected prime minister.
I am sure she will do the best given her limitations with the support of her care workers.
Brexitania needs more cheese!
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Sept 5, 2022 13:32:39 GMT
In the last thread ukpollingreport2.proboards.com/post/48649 c-a-r-f-r-e-w said "Depends what you’re buying it for...” I did take out a subscription to Prospect under its new editor (Alan Rusbridger) at the end of last year but won't be renewing it. I was promised a deeper analysis that wasn't tied to the rolling news timescales, but I haven't seen it and on several occasions I have had cause to complain about articles peddling simplistic assumptions about what VI means for seats in parliament. Thanks to UKPR2, I do, at least have the information to be able to tell when writers phone in their copy, rather than properly research it. Ah yes, Rusbridger... Yes I’ve got some other subs, including to the Independent, but wondering about keeping some. I do find with many publications the overall analysis might be questionable, but there can still be useful bits. For example, the Telegraph might, as a few on here have already suggested, tend to shoehorn analyses into supporting particular themes - pro-Brexit, anti-lockdown etc. However, there may nonetheless be aspects of the argument that have more validity and which can be useful. You can also get info. that might get left out elsewhere. So, they might list the actual contributions of materiel (delivered or promised) in support of Ukraine from different countries. Or how much we might be doing using our LNG facilities to help the EU build up their gas stores ahead of winter. Sometimes I just find it interesting to see what the different preoccupations are, including of those matters outside politics. Lifestyle choices, all that. Then of course, there are the comments. A fair amount of the time they are what you might expect and can’t bring myself to continue reading them. Sometimes you get a surprise though. In the recent thread about boomers there were quite a lot of people posting in support of the youngsters |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 13:33:26 GMT
Excellent news from Justin Welby:
“I am praying for Liz Truss as she takes on the great responsibilities of leadership at a time of such significant challenges.
May God guide her, and all who serve in our political life, towards His hope for our nation, and particular care for those who are vulnerable.“
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graham
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Post by graham on Sept 5, 2022 13:33:34 GMT
I am somewhat bemused at the assumption that departing PMs make a speech as they leave NO 10.Thatcher was the first to do that. Callaghan, Wilson, Heath, Douglas-Home and Macmillan said nothing or simply waved to the crowd outside. Admittedly Macmillan resigned whilst in hospital. No statement was made by Churchill or Attlee either. Chamberlain, Baldwin and Macdonald said nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 13:35:59 GMT
mercian - "Bringing Basic rate tax down from 33% to 22(?)% was pretty good at helping the low paid in particular." Basic rate income tax fell from 33% in '79 to 25% in '89, but NI rose from 6.5% to 9%, so the overall gain was 5.5%. The starting thresholds also didn't rise in line with inflation, so that further eroded the gains. VAT rose from 8% to 15% over that time. Lots of Qubble points. Should you try a tactical change to Carp immediately do you think? Timing is so important in these matters. |
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Post by mercian on Sept 5, 2022 13:41:18 GMT
mercian - "Bringing Basic rate tax down from 33% to 22(?)% was pretty good at helping the low paid in particular." Basic rate income tax fell from 33% in '79 to 25% in '89, but NI rose from 6.5% to 9%, so the overall gain was 5.5%. The starting thresholds also didn't rise in line with inflation, so that further eroded the gains. VAT rose from 8% to 15% over that time. Ok, that's why I put a question mark after 22. Wasn't there the Rooker-Wise amendment which put up Tax Allowance every year unless there was a specific vote against it? I confess I don't know how often that was invoked, though I did try to research it. Anyway, forgetting the precise details, Thatcher's government did introduce some measures which helped the low-paid. That was the only point I was making, though why it's still an issue is beyond me. And I do know that Jeff Rooker and Audrey Wise were Labour MPs, before anyone quibbles about that. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 13:45:10 GMT
What in ? Womens' Weekly ? Country Life ? You're pretty adept at trawling the web. One for you I reckon It might be considered sexist and misogynistic. Best not.  |
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steve
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Post by steve on Sept 5, 2022 13:49:27 GMT
@crofty
I suppose asking your imaginary invisible friend to help Truss make the right decisions is as effective as anything else.
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Post by eotw on Sept 5, 2022 13:49:41 GMT
I suppose the horse's political position was sitting-on-the-fence - but it wouldn't commit. Attachments:
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Post by alec on Sept 5, 2022 13:53:01 GMT
@crofty - I'm delaying my carp, trying to throw my opponent off balance with a tactic of Obtuse Reversion, where I chuck in some unconnected facts to confuse the discussion. This is one you might appreciate. mercian - I think you're overdoing the benefits to the low paid of Thatcher's tax policy, but fairs fair, during her tenure British cheese production rose by 82%. Not a lot of people know that, but it's all here, in the 176 page history of British cheese making 'The Evolution of the British Cheese Industry', Nigel White, 2018 - sdt-static.s3.amazonaws.com/media/uploads/2018/11/08/Evolution%20of%20British%20(2018)%20(1).pdfFrom the Romans to Brexit, everything you ever wanted to know about British cheese. |
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