eor
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Post by eor on Aug 24, 2022 22:09:07 GMT
Just to throw another into the pot - my strange haul from the pre-university years includes an Additional, which in the late 90s sat in between GCSEs and A-levels and I believe counted for half an AS-level. Not sure whether that's closer to the AO than an AS is? And of course all this complexity is without the divers structures and awards available elsewhere in the UK... One consequence of all this chopping and changing of qualifications is that it makes it very difficult for employers. For instance, it makes very little if any difference how an experienced employee did at the age of 15, but how is someone who took O-levels supposed to know what a CSE means (if that's still one) for someone from school? I think you've mostly answered your own question there - most school qualifications will be irrelevant to potential employers after a handful of years (superceded either by further qualifications or by work history). So all that really matters is for people who are dealing with applications from the recently qualified to be famil1ar with the very recent structures. I'd say much the same on standards - it doesn't hugely matter over a period of decades that standards have lowered as much as they have, because people who get those qualifications now are realistically never going to be judged on them against people who got them 20, 30, 40 years ago. Whereas the yo-yoing from to and from the inflated COVID grades could be a lot more problematic.
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Post by ptarmigan on Aug 24, 2022 22:16:53 GMT
I was just about to mention there was an article on the BBC website about Maitlis' comments, although curiously it completely omits the most damning accusation about the "active agent of the Conservative party" sitting on the BBC board!
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Aug 24, 2022 22:16:54 GMT
This can't be a serious question. All registered voters were entitled to a vote in the referendum. A majority of those who voted voted for Leave. Presumably the 12 million who didn't vote didn't care either way or didn't understand the question. So a majority of those who had an opinion voted Leave. End of. Maybe in 40 years you can have a go at rejoining the EU if it still exists. I'm not disputing that leave won. I am disputing your claim as to the "will of the people" which in fact was the expressed will of considerably less than half of the people eligible to vote. You "presume" that the 12 million who didn't vote didn't care, but in reality we have no way of knowing what their motivation was. I think the way you quite casually write them off as not counting for anything, along with the 16 million who voted remain says a lot about why the country is now massively divided and unable to come up with any consensus as to how to face the future, which is a rather sad state to be in considering the difficulties ahead.
OK. I know that our system isn't perfect (what is?), but would you say that a General Election result is the will of the people? I don't know for sure, but I'd be very surprised if more than a handful of MPs were elected with over 50% of their constituency's electorate. I'm happy to do the research if you dispute this. Unless we have some system of compulsory voting as I believe Australia and Russia have, no election can ever claim to be the 'will of the people'. And what is the point of forcing people to vote who have no interest in, or knowledge of the issues? The result is likely to be worse. In the interests of amicability however, I am happy to replace 'will of the people' with 'the will of the people who cared'. 🙂
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eor
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Post by eor on Aug 24, 2022 22:17:36 GMT
Which is why we are not paying the BBC licence fee. The enforcers that used to send pay-up letters have now given up with us, and others. When my dad died, his house had been empty for three years. He kept getting demands for a TV licence. Then he got final demands. Then threats that if he didn't buy one he would be taken to court. Then the threat that they would soon be opening an investigation. Then the letter to say they had opened an investigation. Then I sold the house, alas, so I didn't see what rubbish they sent next.
With all these letters they never bothered to send anybody round. It was clear, after three years, that they never would send anyone round. And if they did it would be obvious no one was living there. It was just frightening letters to get someone to pay up. My other half pays our TV licence. I won't pay it, and I told her so. Anyway I don't watch any TV as there is never anything on it worth watching. UKPR2 is far more interesting than the BBC. I haven't owned a TV for nearly 20 years. Twice I started to get into the upper echelons of TV Licensing threat letters - the first time it was ruined when my lunatic downstairs neighbour bought a TV licence for my flat instead of their own, the second time when my better half bought one for us when it was formally confirmed that iPlayer content required one. Never did get to the one where they include a picture of a "typical courtroom" and highlight where you'll be as the defendant.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 22:24:02 GMT
I'm not disputing that leave won. I am disputing your claim as to the "will of the people" which in fact was the expressed will of considerably less than half of the people eligible to vote. You "presume" that the 12 million who didn't vote didn't care, but in reality we have no way of knowing what their motivation was. I think the way you quite casually write them off as not counting for anything, along with the 16 million who voted remain says a lot about why the country is now massively divided and unable to come up with any consensus as to how to face the future, which is a rather sad state to be in considering the difficulties ahead.
OK. I know that our system isn't perfect (what is?), but would you say that a General Election result is the will of the people? I don't know for sure, but I'd be very surprised if more than a handful of MPs were elected with over 50% of their constituency's electorate. I'm happy to do the research if you dispute this. Unless we have some system of compulsory voting as I believe Australia and Russia have, no election can ever claim to be the 'will of the people'. And what is the point of forcing people to vote who have no interest in, or knowledge of the issues? The result is likely to be worse. In the interests of amicability however, I am happy to replace 'will of the people' with 'the will of the people who cared'. 🙂 You're still missing the point .. if anything it showed that the country was greatly divided on the issue and therefore there was no "will of the people" which implies a degree of consensus.
.. and as for a General Election conducted under FPTP resulting in the will of the people .... oh come on,....really ? .. you can't be serious !!
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eor
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Post by eor on Aug 24, 2022 22:25:01 GMT
pjw1961 - the only thing I'd add to my reply to shevii is that we're also into a rather strange period timewise. These are parliamentary by-elections in our terms, but I'm not sure the writ would ever get moved in the UK, if the next GE was known to definitely be only a few months away? They're essentially voting for who gets to have the Incumbent* next to them in the November election they're already campaigning for.
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Post by isa on Aug 24, 2022 22:26:19 GMT
I obviously bow to the likes of jimjam , neilj and your good self, but I reckon that's four on the bounce where we've had LAB at c40-43% and CON @ c28-32%. Unless I'm misreading the runes completely, the LAB lead seems to be hardening at possibly a consistent 8% plus. Grateful for thoughts of the experts. Thanks for actually trying to talk about polling. It seems undeniable that Labour are riding medium-high right now. It still appears to me that this is mostly a reflection on the (lack of) government. We are now exactly where many of us expected us to be at the start of the year. The Torys had an increasingly unpopular PM. Faced with the problem that he was probably electoral toast, it wasn't clear they had a better option, so hesitated. They finally decided to twist, not stick, and now we find out if it was the right decision. The signs aren't good so far, but let's see how it develops. Personally, I can't see Truss being able to improve the situation much, but all we can do is sit back and watch. Well, maybe jump up and down and watch, got to keep warm this winter somehow. Mon plaisir, quite literally. I agree with your observation that the government vacuum is a factor, but against that, this absurd, neverending 'leadership' farce has given an awful lot of political oxygen to CON, to the extent that little bandwidth remains for alternative views, so KS did well to land some apparently telling blows regarding the LAB energy proposals. When all this circus is over, and the cold, hard reality of massive energy bill increases hits home, I see little prospect of improvement for CON VI any time soon . As an aside, with crises everywhere you turn, at home and abroad, I'm amazed at how supine and complicit the media has been in patiently waiting for CON to go through the motions of this cosy old pals act to come up with Johnson's successor. If a similar contest were happening with LAB in power in such circumstances, the crescendo of opprobrium from the right wing media at such self-indulgence would have been deafening and relentless.
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Post by crossbat11 on Aug 24, 2022 22:27:59 GMT
A Mercian in vino veritas splurge.
"They don't like it up 'em, do they. Here you are. I've got another zinger. Yeah, what about that one, hey. Yeah, I've got another too. GB News. Yeah, you don't like the BBC, have some of that. Yeah, the most balanced show on TV (wipes phlegm off the keyboard). Yeah, what about Boris in Ukraine? Don't like it? Suck it up babies. The EU? Get over it. I'm on a roll here dear (aside to his good wife.). I've got 'em on the run. I've just pinged another off. Yeah they're all going.( quick slurp). I've just sent another. I reckon I've pinged off more posts than anyone else. They're coming off the wrist like a.........
Agghhhhhhhhhh"
Mercian goes to bed. A satisfied man. He sleeps the sleep of the just. The just after.
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Aug 24, 2022 22:35:21 GMT
OK. I know that our system isn't perfect (what is?), but would you say that a General Election result is the will of the people? I don't know for sure, but I'd be very surprised if more than a handful of MPs were elected with over 50% of their constituency's electorate. I'm happy to do the research if you dispute this. Unless we have some system of compulsory voting as I believe Australia and Russia have, no election can ever claim to be the 'will of the people'. And what is the point of forcing people to vote who have no interest in, or knowledge of the issues? The result is likely to be worse. In the interests of amicability however, I am happy to replace 'will of the people' with 'the will of the people who cared'. 🙂 You're still missing the point .. if anything it showed that the country was greatly divided on the issue and therefore there was no "will of the people" which implies a degree of consensus.
.. and as for a General Election conducted under FPTP resulting in the will of the people .... oh come on,....really ? .. you can't be serious !! So in your view, no election or referendum ever held in this country has represented the will of the people? I'll try to remember that if Labour ever manage to win another one, though it could be so far in the future that my memory will have gone completely. I don't deny that there was a big divide between those who cared about the result of the referendum, but I think the zealots on here represent a small minority, and most people are just getting on with their lives. Like jib (I think it was) I don't think that Brexit has had much impact on most peoples' lives that can be disentangled from the effects of Covid and the Ukraine war.
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Aug 24, 2022 22:37:37 GMT
A Mercian in vino veritas splurge. "They don't like it up 'em, do they. Here you are. I've got another zinger. Yeah, what about that one, hey. Yeah, I've got another too. GB News. Yeah, you don't like the BBC, have some of that. Yeah, the most balanced show on TV (wipes phlegm off the keyboard). Yeah, what about Boris in Ukraine? Don't like it? Suck it up babies. The EU? Get over it. I'm on a roll here dear (aside to his good wife.). I've got 'em on the run. I've just pinged another off. Yeah they're all going.( quick slurp). I've just sent another. I reckon I've pinged off more posts than anyone else. They're coming off the wrist like a......... Agghhhhhhhhhh" Mercian goes to bed. A satisfied man. He sleeps the sleep of the just. The just after. Nice try. 🤣 [EDIT] I'm here all night. I've got plenty of cider! 🤣 [EDIT2] I note that you can't actually answer any of my points.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 22:38:37 GMT
A Mercian in vino veritas splurge. "They don't like it up 'em, do they. Here you are. I've got another zinger. Yeah, what about that one, hey. Yeah, I've got another too. GB News. Yeah, you don't like the BBC, have some of that. Yeah, the most balanced show on TV (wipes phlegm off the keyboard). Yeah, what about Boris in Ukraine? Don't like it? Suck it up babies. The EU? Get over it. I'm on a roll here dear (aside to his good wife.). I've got 'em on the run. I've just pinged another off. Yeah they're all going.( quick slurp). I've just sent another. I reckon I've pinged off more posts than anyone else. They're coming off the wrist like a......... Agghhhhhhhhhh" Mercian goes to bed. A satisfied man. He sleeps the sleep of the just. The just after. To quote the late great Dick Emery ... oh you are awful .......
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Post by lens on Aug 24, 2022 22:41:07 GMT
lensRe rocket fuel I seem to remember that Blue Streak and/or Black Arrow were fuelled by a mixture of paraffin and bleach. I always thought that was amusing and put me in mind of the film 'Mouse on the Moon', a sequel to The Mouse that Roared. I confess you got me googling that one! They both used paraffin - or to be more precise kerosene, as used for jet fuel. (I believe the difference from paraffin is in purity etc.) One then used liquid oxygen as oxidant, but the other used concentrated hydrogen peroxide. So arguably bleach - though I think if you used it at this concentration on hair it may end badly....... 🤔 Fundamentally there are three main routes to go for rocket fuel. Solid, hypergolic or cryogenic and each have relative pros and cons. Without too much detail they trade off stability and "readiness to launch" with the ability to stop/start a burn as required as well as sheer performance. For orbital launches cryogenic is acceptable as the schedule should allow for fuelling quite close to launch - though a non cryogenic fuel such as kerosene eases the problem, whereas liquid hydrogen causes the most problems. Nothing new - the V2 used liquid oxygen and ethanol. (I seem to recall one of the factors limiting V2 availability was the potato harvest from which the ethanol was derived! A question of do you eat or fuel more rockets! But maybe the Nazis were technically even more ahead of their time by going for bio rocket fuel...... 😉 But having to be fuelled with LOX immediately before launch was a potential vulnerability for the V2.
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Aug 24, 2022 22:56:28 GMT
lensIt's a bit late for me to try to find this, but wasn't there a British chap recently who came up with an idea in his shed that was quite revolutionary and he went to NASA to try to get it up and running? It was more about interplanetary travel than taking off from Earth though. All sorts of new space technology is happening. It's bit like the early days of the Industrial Revolution I think. Who knows where we'll be in 20 years?
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Post by isa on Aug 24, 2022 22:57:53 GMT
Needless to say, not a sausage of a mention of this on the 'flagship' 10 pm BBC news bulletin or even, from their billing, on the ostensibly more analytical Newsnight, although it was mentioned on Teletext (which I still find extremely useful). The BBC'S lack of introspection is as depressing as it is unsurprising. In fairness they did have something on it visible on the main page of the news website. It read as somewhat confused to me as though editorially they didn’t know how to handle it. I bet they bl**dy didn't!
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Post by ptarmigan on Aug 24, 2022 23:00:51 GMT
Outgoing UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said households across Europe have to endure the cost-of-living crisis to counter Russian aggression during a visit to Ukraine.
I've no issues whatsoever with our stance on Ukraine/Russia - it's appalling what the Ukrainian people are having to endure as a result of Russian aggression - but, whilst the above is to some extent just a recognition of where we are right now, I think this notion of having to endure a cost-of-living crisis feels a bit galling coming from a man who's shown basically no interest whatsoever in doing anything to ameliorate said crisis. Sums him up really - big on the grand gestures, terrible when it comes to delivering anything tangible.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Aug 24, 2022 23:03:10 GMT
In fairness they did have something on it visible on the main page of the news website. It read as somewhat confused to me as though editorially they didn’t know how to handle it. I bet they bl**dy didn't! They did mention false balance around reporting on brexit though which seemed very un (current) BBC who will normally go out of their way to avoid mentioning it at all.
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mercian
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Post by mercian on Aug 24, 2022 23:05:56 GMT
Outgoing UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said households across Europe have to endure the cost-of-living crisis to counter Russian aggression during a visit to Ukraine.
I've no issues whatsoever with our stance on Ukraine/Russia - it's appalling what the Ukrainian people are having to endure as a result of Russian aggression - but, whilst the above is to some extent just a recognition of where we are right now, I think this notion of having to endure a cost-of-living crisis feels a bit galling coming from a man who's shown basically no interest whatsoever in doing anything to ameliorate said crisis. Sums him up really - big on the grand gestures, terrible when it comes to delivering anything tangible. £400+ per household? Not a complete solution, but tangible surely?
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Aug 24, 2022 23:06:58 GMT
mercian
"Who knows where we'll be in 20 years?"
For many of us on here it'll be in a grave (or wherever we have our ashes scattered)
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eor
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Post by eor on Aug 24, 2022 23:13:24 GMT
local, progressive, 38, and not afraid of saying that a choice between a 75 year old career hack and a 76 year old career hack isn't how the Democratic party should be trying to move forwards. makes you wonder if the house of lords as a home for politicians who refuse to retire might be useful after all. Also makes you realise how rigidly stratified the us is. They are too old but cannot be removed. Biden ran for president 50 years ago and would have been a good choice at that age. How has US politics become a pensioners' game? Biden was in the Senate 50 years ago; he didn't run for President until 35 years ago. Whilst I take your point, those two stats are closely related; he was freakishly young to get elected Senator, and thus his initial career trajectory was rather stellar, and then followed by second, third and fourth careers bourne out of sheer longevity. But to answer your general question - I think a lot of it has to do with the way seniority and power are interlinked. A lot of power, influence and ability to raise money comes from being in senior positions in House and Senate committees. Broadly similar in many ways to Select Committees over here, in that they scrutinise and call witnesses and get to grandstand on the news, but with the crucial difference that the ministerial track doesn't really exist in the US and this is the main way for House and Senate members to get the media exposure they need to raise the money for their election campaign for their next job, whether it be President or perhaps Governor of their state. And whilst getting onto a particular committee is often a gift in the behest of the party whips, once there your seniority is what determines your power. The longer you stick around, the closer to being the chairman (or the ranking member, effectively a shadow chairman in waiting if the political control of the House/Senate changes). So whereas MPs who have been in Westminster for 30 years and never made it on the government ladder (for whatever reasons) might be inclined to say "ok, time to do something easier with more time spent at home" and quietly retire, in the US there's probably a lot more sense of "but I'm SO CLOSE now!". Also the variants on what power entails given the checks and balances - the temptation to think that just one more election and the stars will align. Your party will become the majority in your chamber, and you'll finally be in charge of your thing. Or if you already have the job, one more election and you'll gain the few seats you need to not be beholden to the cranks or nutters that stopped you getting anything done... one more stab, even if it's only going to be for two years, you could do more in that two years than the previous 30... keep going...
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Post by isa on Aug 24, 2022 23:20:54 GMT
A Mercian in vino veritas splurge. "They don't like it up 'em, do they. Here you are. I've got another zinger. Yeah, what about that one, hey. Yeah, I've got another too. GB News. Yeah, you don't like the BBC, have some of that. Yeah, the most balanced show on TV (wipes phlegm off the keyboard). Yeah, what about Boris in Ukraine? Don't like it? Suck it up babies. The EU? Get over it. I'm on a roll here dear (aside to his good wife.). I've got 'em on the run. I've just pinged another off. Yeah they're all going.( quick slurp). I've just sent another. I reckon I've pinged off more posts than anyone else. They're coming off the wrist like a......... Agghhhhhhhhhh" Mercian goes to bed. A satisfied man. He sleeps the sleep of the just. The just after. To quote the late great Dick Emery ... oh you are awful ....... I loved Dick Emery back in the day, and I certainly wasn't alone. If I watch his stuff now, though, it's excruciating. Whoever said "the past is another country", (I'm sure someone will oblige), got it dead right.
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Post by isa on Aug 24, 2022 23:29:57 GMT
I bet they bl**dy didn't! They did mention false balance around reporting on brexit though which seemed very un (current) BBC who will normally go out of their way to avoid mentioning it at all. Don't they just!
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eor
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Post by eor on Aug 24, 2022 23:30:35 GMT
To quote the late great Dick Emery ... oh you are awful ....... I loved Dick Emery back in the day, and I certainly wasn't alone. If I watch his stuff now, though, it's excruciating. Whoever said "the past is another country", (I'm sure someone will oblige), got it dead right. LP Hartley. Something a truly memorably history teacher opened our very first A-level lesson with.
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Post by isa on Aug 24, 2022 23:44:49 GMT
I loved Dick Emery back in the day, and I certainly wasn't alone. If I watch his stuff now, though, it's excruciating. Whoever said "the past is another country", (I'm sure someone will oblige), got it dead right. LP Hartley. Something a truly memorably history teacher opened our very first A-level lesson with. That was quick, even for UKPR2! Thank you. Although I see now that the quote is actually "the past is a foreign country". The sentiment remains the same, however.
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Post by EmCat on Aug 24, 2022 23:56:07 GMT
I loved Dick Emery back in the day, and I certainly wasn't alone. If I watch his stuff now, though, it's excruciating. Whoever said "the past is another country", (I'm sure someone will oblige), got it dead right. LP Hartley. Something a truly memorably history teacher opened our very first A-level lesson with. Not to be confused with JR Hartley, who popped up in Yellow Pages adverts looking for his own book on fly fishing
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eor
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Post by eor on Aug 24, 2022 23:58:13 GMT
isa It does, and it comes into my head each time there's a squabble about a particular TV show or film or whatnot. Sometimes yeah there are cultural things we can look back on now and say "we just shouldn't have done that" and then there's stuff that makes me think "why are we trying to pretend that isn't how things were?".
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eor
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Post by eor on Aug 25, 2022 0:42:04 GMT
I was just about to mention there was an article on the BBC website about Maitlis' comments, although curiously it completely omits the most damning accusation about the "active agent of the Conservative party" sitting on the BBC board! It doesn't as of a couple of hours ago; www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62662212Not only uses the quote but goes to the trouble of highlighting who she's referring to. Perhaps as Dom suggested, a degree of panic as to how to initially deal with this?
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 25, 2022 5:39:40 GMT
isaRe polling, agree with you In the latest 4 polls there have been two Labour leads of 12%, a 10% and 15% lead Plus even under Opiniums new methodology Labour has had an 8% lead, where as it had been on average around 2%-3% Polls have definitely moved, far from getting a boost it appears the more people see of the likely successor Truss, the less they like her Of course Labour have had a good couple of weeks with their new policy and they need to keep the momentum up and the pressure on the tories in the coming months It could all come crashing down for them, infighting is always a worry, but they do have a very big ally, the economy. I can only see it getting worse for the Conservatives
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 25, 2022 5:56:21 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 25, 2022 6:01:33 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 25, 2022 6:04:57 GMT
And for the record, your mad rants about a European superstate are just as ludicrous as Danny's Covid nonsense.. Hey, I resent that. i have made a reasoned argument that Covid arrived in the Uk in 2019. No one has been able to produce counter arguments. The best anyone did do was in autumn 2020, when cases began to appear in hastings after the town having been magically free of recorded covid cases up to then. But since then we know that everywhere which had first wave covid then got second and subsequent waves as well. That immunity doesnt last, or doesnt work against new strains. so in fact the argument against Hastings being immune, transformed into one where Hastings always behaved like everywhere else, except it had the disease earlier. No one has produced a credible alternative explanation for what happened in Hastings. The only one is that it had covid winter 2019/20. That isnt the only example. Other towns had covid early in the autumn waves before new lockdowns were imposed. They too saw cases rise and then fall before interventions began. It ended by itself in much the same timescale without interventions. Before that, government tried local interventions, which failed to work. Which in fact was evidence the measures overall also failed to work-they woldnt work locally if they didnt work nationally either. But since the disease always self limits in a couple of months anywhere without escalating death rates, anywhwere you cared to impose a lockdown would see cases fall, without big deaths, because that was what would have happened anyway. As to Brexit, if you put together 100 leavers, every one promised something different would be the outcome, and taken together they contradicted each other. There was no coherent promise of outcomes. In that sense the promise wasnt broken, because just about anything would have qualified as having delivered. However the key promise was perhaps the red bus, which was intended to persuade the nation there would be no overall cost to brexit. An outrageous lie when viewed overall, but a narrow kinda truth in terms that we would no longer be making annual membership payments. It was fundamentally a deliberate lie intended to fool brits into voting for brexit, they would not have done so had they been told the real cost. The brexit campaign was a lie deliberately crafted to mislead voters. Individuals who contributed to this no doubt had their own reasons they wanted Brexit, and decided they would lie to achieve them. One at least was Vladimir Putin, who wanted to harm the Uk as much as possible.
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