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Post by graham on Aug 15, 2022 12:22:08 GMT
Who says such views are 'outdated' - or 'narrow minded'? The fact that your judgement happens not to coincide with my opinion does not justify either label. As for being 'mysoginistic and sexist' , had you read my comments in their entirety you might have noticed that I listed a string of prominent male politicians whose behaviour I considered to be inappropriate. You are clearly making judgements -and ignoring relevant facts whilst doing so. Have you tried looking in a few good mirrors recently? You're absolutely right. I wouldn't normally be so rude as to make such comments about another poster but you seem to have no restraint in criticising other's behaviour so I'm just copying your example. But of one thing I am sure. Jesus would NOT have approved of you as one of his followers. If you say so - but not everybody believes that Jesus would have approved of 'laisser -faire' moral standards. He did have some sense of 'right' and 'wrong'. I doubt that that he would have approved of 'paedophilia' or 'incestuous relationships' , but I am sure there are some who will disagree with that view. May I also point out that my original comments were not addressed to specific posters.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 15, 2022 12:25:38 GMT
Never mind the cabinet, I wonder what Graham will make of the current Prince of Wales becoming head of the Anglican Church on his mother's death? Even his eldest son would be no improvement since he is (pretty much) known to have had two extra-martial affairs. It would be thoroughly hypocritical - though I am not an Anglican. On that I think I would actually agree with you. Time for a spot of disestablishmentarianism perhaps.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 12:26:37 GMT
graham “ Who says such views are 'outdated' - or 'narrow minded'? “ Pretty much everybody here who has so far commented on your ugly posts. You are, obviously, absolutely entitled to your strange world view but a number of posters have already politely asked you to stop using this forum - hardly your most appropriate audience surely? - to express them. Why not not just share them with your chums at church** or your sister? ** Not that awful woman who announced that England’s women had won the Euros of course.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 15, 2022 12:33:02 GMT
You're absolutely right. I wouldn't normally be so rude as to make such comments about another poster but you seem to have no restraint in criticising other's behaviour so I'm just copying your example. But of one thing I am sure. Jesus would NOT have approved of you as one of his followers. If you say so - but not everybody believes that Jesus would have approved of 'laisser -faire' moral standards. He did have some sense of 'right' and 'wrong'. I doubt that that he would have approved of 'paedophilia' or 'incestuous relationships' , but I am sure there are some who will disagree with that view. May I also point out that my original comments were not addressed to specific posters.
Jesus also said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - in respect of a woman accused of adultery as it happens. I hope you realise comparing sex between consenting adults with pedophilia and incest is not a good look.
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Post by graham on Aug 15, 2022 12:40:24 GMT
graham “ Who says such views are 'outdated' - or 'narrow minded'? “ Pretty much everybody here who has so far commented on your ugly posts. You are, obviously, absolutely entitled to your strange world view but a number of posters have already politely asked you to stop using this forum - hardly your most appropriate audience surely? - to express them. Why not not just share them with your chums at church** or your sister? ** Not that awful woman who announced that England’s women had won the Euros of course. Your snide remarks are neither surprising - nor are they new. Since when have you become the judge of what other contributors think and believe? Have you asked them? The vast majority have said nothing - just as few comment on your posts in relation to dogs or music. You don't seek permission when making your comments . Why should I?Moreover I do not recall using obscenities which are directed at specific posters. Perhaps one day you will feel drawn to the idea of 'Freedom of Speech'.
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Post by graham on Aug 15, 2022 12:42:01 GMT
If you say so - but not everybody believes that Jesus would have approved of 'laisser -faire' moral standards. He did have some sense of 'right' and 'wrong'. I doubt that that he would have approved of 'paedophilia' or 'incestuous relationships' , but I am sure there are some who will disagree with that view. May I also point out that my original comments were not addressed to specific posters.
Jesus also said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - in respect of a woman accused of adultery as it happens. I hope you realise comparing sex between consenting adults with pedophilia and incest is not a good look. I have always condemned both in the strongest terms - but not everybody does.
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Dave
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... I'm dreaming dreams, I'm scheming schemes, I'm building castles high ..
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Post by Dave on Aug 15, 2022 12:43:08 GMT
May I also point out that my original comments were not addressed to specific posters.
Well you weren't but you were Graham. You made it clear which 'categories' you approved of and dis-approved of. Co-habiters for example, which before I got married seven years ago, I was one of for the previous five years. So was I immoral for seven years only to become moral overnight? Is it that simple? By the way, prior to meeting my future wife, I co-habited as you'd put it, with the same woman for over twenty years. So I'm a dyed-in-the-wool co-habiter - so yes without knowing our names, or who you were referring to, you were addressing specific posters. Now I genuinely don't care what someone who I will never meet, talk to or know wants to label me. But own what you say. You might not be calling people by their names but you are addressing people directly. And judging them. This all reminds me why I turned away from organised religion when I was in my teens. It's a shame, because despite all of its faults religion can be such a force for good for many, and certainly for many individuals in my life. But judging people you've never met? I was bought up to believe that only one entity could truly judge us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 12:44:53 GMT
Cesspit 2
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Post by graham on Aug 15, 2022 12:48:27 GMT
May I also point out that my original comments were not addressed to specific posters.
Well you weren't but you were Graham. You made it clear which 'categories' you approved of and dis-approved of. Co-habiters for example, which before I got married seven years ago, I was one of for the previous five years. So was I immoral for seven years only to become moral overnight? Is it that simple? By the way, prior to meeting my future wife, I co-habited as you'd put it, with the same woman for over twenty years. So I'm a dyed-in-the-wool co-habiter - so yes without knowing our names, or who you were referring to, you were addressing specific posters. Now I genuinely don't care what someone who I will never meet, talk to or know wants to label me. But own what you say. You might not be calling people by their names but you are addressing people directly. And judging them. This all reminds me why I turned away from organised religion when I was in my teens. It's a shame, because despite all of its faults religion can be such a force for good for many, and certainly for many individuals in my life. But judging people you've never met? I was bought up to believe that only one entity could truly judge us. I have many cohabiting friends - but that does not mean that I would be inclined to vote for them in an election.
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Post by leftieliberal on Aug 15, 2022 12:50:10 GMT
You're absolutely right. I wouldn't normally be so rude as to make such comments about another poster but you seem to have no restraint in criticising other's behaviour so I'm just copying your example. But of one thing I am sure. Jesus would NOT have approved of you as one of his followers. If you say so - but not everybody believes that Jesus would have approved of 'laisser -faire' moral standards. He did have some sense of 'right' and 'wrong'. I doubt that that he would have approved of 'paedophilia' or 'incestuous relationships' , but I am sure there are some who will disagree with that view. May I also point out that my original comments were not addressed to specific posters.
Jesus said "I do not judge anyone who hears my word and does not keep them, for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47 (NRSV)
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Post by graham on Aug 15, 2022 12:55:32 GMT
If you say so - but not everybody believes that Jesus would have approved of 'laisser -faire' moral standards. He did have some sense of 'right' and 'wrong'. I doubt that that he would have approved of 'paedophilia' or 'incestuous relationships' , but I am sure there are some who will disagree with that view. May I also point out that my original comments were not addressed to specific posters.
Jesus said "I do not judge anyone who hears my word and does not keep them, for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47 (NRSV) Applied to all deeds nobody would ever be charged for criminal acts - not even the guy who attacked Salman Rushdie.
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Post by catfuzz on Aug 15, 2022 13:07:17 GMT
Does anyone remember what polling was? Or does anyone fancy talking about how we fix:
• The energy crisis • The fact that a good 40% of the population are not going to be able to afford to live this winter • The healthcare service LITERALLY collapsing around us
Or would we rather talk about who has been sleeping with who, and whether such a person is fit to govern, regardless or not if said person may or may not have the answers to the above.
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Post by mandolinist on Aug 15, 2022 13:08:48 GMT
I tried to call time on the ongoing nonesense about sexual morality yesterday. Can I now ask that we stop feeding the discussion? It is prurient and unpleasant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:11:02 GMT
So-after much deliberation ( presumably) Starmer / Reeves have delivered their solution to the UK energy cost crisis:- A six month freeze at current capped price -funded by :- * Not giving us Sunak's May package !!!-(48% of the "funding") * Reducing interest on Index linked Gilts because inflation will come down !-(24% of the "funding")-described as an illusion by IFS. *Increasing the existing windfall tax -( 28% of the funding) What happens after 6 months ?-they don't say. Absolutely brilliant.
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Post by mandolinist on Aug 15, 2022 13:14:50 GMT
colin, I thought that the announcement from Starmer included the already announced support? I sincerely hope it would, but it is a moot point anyway since Labour will not be in power when the payments are made, indeed some of the first payments to those on Universal Credit are already being paid.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 15, 2022 13:15:04 GMT
Does anyone remember what polling was? Or does anyone fancy talking about how we fix: • The energy crisis • The fact that a good 40% of the population are not going to be able to afford to live this winter • The healthcare service LITERALLY collapsing around us Or would we rather talk about who has been sleeping with who, and whether such a person is fit to govern, regardless or not if said person may or may not have the answers to the above. It's been ages since we had a poll to discuss. There were none over the weekend. I note however that "No 10 admits Johnson will only be contacted if urgent while on holiday". Good thing the country isn't facing any urgent problems. www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/15/senior-tory-defends-johnson-for-taking-second-holiday-amid-energy-crisis
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:17:34 GMT
Putin going Full Tonto :-
"Putin ready to offer allies in Latin American, Asia and Africa 'advanced' weapons Vladimir Putin said on Monday that Moscow valued its ties with countries in Latin American, Asia and Africa and was ready to offer modern weapons to its allies, reports Reuters. Putin used a speech at an arms show near Moscow to boast of Russia’s advanced weapons capabilities and declare its willingness to share technology with like-minded countries.
Putin told the the opening ceremony of the “Army-2022” forum near Moscow: (We) are ready to offer our allies the most modern types of weapons, from small arms to armoured vehicles and artillery to combat aviation and unmanned aerial vehicles. Almost all of them have been used more than once in real combat operations.
The Russian president’s comments come just a day after he offered to expand relations with North Korea. In a letter to Kim Jong Un for Korea‘s liberation day, Putin said closer ties would be in both countries’ interests, and would help strengthen the security and stability of the Korean peninsula and the Northeastern Asian region, North Korea‘s KCNA news agency said."
BBC
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Post by Mark on Aug 15, 2022 13:18:58 GMT
*** ADMIN ***
The time has now come - indeed is overdue - to call an end to the discussion on sexual morality.
There is no current relevant news story regarding eithor of the conservative leadership candidates or any other major politician.
We all know the views of anyone who has chosen to express them, sadly, the discussion has now become toxic and therefore, it is time to move on.
Please do not ignore this admin post.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,384
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 15, 2022 13:19:52 GMT
colin , I thought that the announcement from Starmer included the already announced support? I sincerely hope it would, but it is a moot point anyway since Labour will not be in power when the payments are made, indeed some of the first payments to those on Universal Credit are already being paid. The idea is that Labour freeze prices to the consumer at the current cap (c£1950 p.a. from memory) so people won't need the £400 Sunak announced. Stops bills going to £3300 then £4200. Expert on the radio this morning commented that Labour announcing their funding plan was more that the Government or Sunak and Truss had done with their proposals.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 15, 2022 13:24:34 GMT
Nick Ferrari, not a natural Labour fan, gives Brandon Lewis both barrels
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:31:28 GMT
colin , I thought that the announcement from Starmer included the already announced support? I sincerely hope it would, but it is a moot point anyway since Labour will not be in power when the payments are made, indeed some of the first payments to those on Universal Credit are already being paid. No a half of the "funding" for his package is withdrawal of the May package according to BBC. Currently trying to work out whether his claimed "saving" for consumers is before or after deducting the assistance we would not now get. If it is "before" then he is being dishonest with voters ( why should he be any different to the rest of them though ? ) I understand the attraction of simplicity with a universally applied freeze. The oil/gas companies pitched the same think to Johnson -but for two years, not six months. But I think it is the wrong approach . Help should be targeted on the poorest. The rest of us have to get used to and adapt to market prices. States cannot shield the whole population from them forever. Paul Johnson ( IFS) writes in Times today outlining this philosophy. I agree with him. This is not to say Governments should not regulate effectively , and tax true windfalls profits which the consumer has funded.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:32:45 GMT
Nick Ferrari, not a natural Labour fan, gives Brandon Lewis both barrels Don’t understand..? Colin didn’t approve - which was a bit of a surprise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:34:45 GMT
The idea is that Labour freeze prices to the consumer at the current cap (c£1950 p.a. from memory) so people won't need the £400 Sunak announced. Stops bills going to £3300 then £4200. BBC says :- "Dropping the £400 energy rebate and other pledges made by Tory leadership candidates."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:36:51 GMT
But I think it is the wrong approach . Help should be targeted on the poorest. meaning hardly anybody
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 15, 2022 13:42:28 GMT
The idea is that Labour freeze prices to the consumer at the current cap (c£1950 p.a. from memory) so people won't need the £400 Sunak announced. Stops bills going to £3300 then £4200. BBC says :- "Dropping the £400 energy rebate and other pledges made by Tory leadership candidates." Why would Labour honour pledges by Tory leadership candidates? The £400 is different as it has been formally announced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:45:54 GMT
But I think it is the wrong approach . Help should be targeted on the poorest. meaning hardly anybody The official number of households in fuel poverty is 3.16m End Fuel Poverty Collition says this will rise to 8.5 m by end this year. Say £1500 ( arbitrary number) for 8.5 m households =£12 bn to £13 bn package for one year. Coincidentally ( ? -i havent seen his calcs) -the sum suggested by Paul Johnson of IFS today. Double that for two years plus something for further increases and you have the 2 years model cost proposed by the energy companies -£30bn
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 15, 2022 13:47:39 GMT
colin Will the advanced weapons include tanks with blow up turrets and equipment with a use by 1983 date?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 13:49:18 GMT
BBC says :- "Dropping the £400 energy rebate and other pledges made by Tory leadership candidates." Why would Labour honour pledges by Tory leadership candidates? The £400 is different as it has been formally announced. The May package included £150 Council Tax rebate for households in England in Council Tax bands A-D, £650 one-off Cost of Living Payment for those on means tested benefits and One-off £300 Pensioner Cost of Living Payment. Could you point me to evidence that those are not also withdrawn in the Labour package.
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Post by mandolinist on Aug 15, 2022 13:58:29 GMT
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Post by lefthanging on Aug 15, 2022 13:59:49 GMT
Personally I'm happy with a second bite of the windfall tax cherry, but I agree with colin that such forms of taxation should not be the norm and that long-term we need to regulate the sector more effectively.
Isn't Starmer's policy of withdrawing the £400 regressive? Poorer households generally live in smaller homes that use less energy. So in a sense the flat rate of benefit disproportionately favoured those who were less well off. Now that money is being withdrawn to put into a scheme which will effectively distribute the same funding on the basis of how much energy you consume.
I'm aware that 'targeted support' can sometimes be a government euphemism for 'hardly any' - but I'd maintain (or increase) the amount Labour plan to spend, I just wish it were distributed a little more equitably.
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