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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 16:55:05 GMT
Yes separated, but still married But she wasn't married. I assume she still gets banned by Graham for having a relationship with a married man. One of the slight problems he might have is finding anyone he can vote for. Does sex before marriage get a red card too? Because that is probably 99% of everyone born after 1940 ruled out. Rools are rools. Sex for procreation is okay so long as it’s within a law abiding marriage. (Sex for pleasure - no. NO! ) This gives some idea of correct procedure: ’‘ Matthew’s Gospel gives us Joseph’s side of the Nativity story. Where Joseph lived is not entirely clear; Matthew implies that he lived in Bethlehem, whereas John states that he hailed from Nazareth. When Joseph learned that Mary was pregnant, even though they hadn’t been wed, he “planned to dismiss her quietly” because he was “unwilling to expose her to public disgrace.” But before he could cancel the wedding, “an angel of the Lord” appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit” (The third sentence gives a clear idea of what a noble bloak ole Joseph was in planning to dismiss her “quietly”. A proper gentleman.)
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Post by mercian on Aug 14, 2022 17:12:58 GMT
There is a serious problem now with our weather forecasters on national media having their time so shortened that they cannot give details. ... Memo to self - check more widely before setting out. And second, doubt stories of "national" disaster, like the i saying there will be no brussel sprouts for our Xmas dinners since the soil is too dry for them to be planted now. Are not sprouts planted in the spring doing well?- our garden looks fine. I always search for "Met Office" followed by the name of the place I'm going to. It's quite fine-grained. You can put the name of quite a small place. They do update it every couple of hours and sometimes it changes quite a bit, so I always check shortly before going anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 17:19:04 GMT
There is a serious problem now with our weather forecasters on national media having their time so shortened that they cannot give details. ... Memo to self - check more widely before setting out. And second, doubt stories of "national" disaster, like the i saying there will be no brussel sprouts for our Xmas dinners since the soil is too dry for them to be planted now. Are not sprouts planted in the spring doing well?- our garden looks fine. I always search for "Met Office" followed by the name of the place I'm going to. It's quite fine-grained. You can put the name of quite a small place. They do update it every couple of hours and sometimes it changes quite a bit, so I always check shortly before going anywhere. Even just down the pub?
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Post by mercian on Aug 14, 2022 17:19:42 GMT
steve The fifth decade is the worst 🤣 @crofty Of course! 😁
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 17:32:19 GMT
Yes separated, but still married But she wasn't married. I assume she still gets banned by Graham for having a relationship with a married man. One of the slight problems he might have is finding anyone he can vote for. Does sex before marriage get a red card too? Because that is probably 99% of everyone born after 1940 ruled out. I think 99% is far too high. I recall cousins who married in the early 1960s who are highly unlikely to have had a full intimate relationship pre- marriage - indeed I would extend that to an aunt who married in late 1971. My sister married in mid- 1983 and has assured me that there was no premarital 'nooky'. No account appears to be being taken of how people from regular church going backgrounds behaved - and indeed continue to behave. That alone would account for 5% - 10% of the population . When I was at university in the mid-1970s , it was certainly not assumed that couples who had been 'going out' for an extended period of 12 - 18 months were sleeping together. There was a fair bit of curiosity and gossip - 'I wonder whether X and Y ....' , but we did not take it for granted that they were! Some were - others were not. I was quite active in the Anglican& Methodist Society and recall the embarassment and red faces in late 1974 or early 1975 when a girl discovered she was pregnant via her boyfriend from home.She took a year out and proceeded to get married before the baby was born - ie she 'did the decent thing.'Overall ,however, it seemed highly unlikely that many who were active in such societies of various denominations would engage in fornication. Those who argue that 99% did behave in that way are assuming that their own experiences and circles were typical.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 17:36:05 GMT
steve The fifth decade is the worst 🤣 For your Missis?? Surely a sort of five-way score draw?
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 17:38:25 GMT
Reflecting on earlier PMs I would consider it likely that the following adhered to chastity before marriage - Baldwin - Chamberlain - Churchill - Attlee - Macmillan- Douglas - Home - Wilson - Callaghan -Thatcher - May. Not sure about Gordon Brown as a son of the Manse.
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Post by alec on Aug 14, 2022 17:38:50 GMT
mandolinist - smart meters - love 'em or hate 'em, they are the thing of the future. For various technical reasons (an economy 7 meter where the timer keeps slipping, meaning I am gradually getting cheap electricity for seven hours during the day, rather than at night) I have resisted a smart meter so far. I'm also unhappy that the roll out has been botched, with some of the early versions being unsecure, and more recent iterations have seen smart meters installed by specific companies that are incompatible with systems operated by other energy companies, effectively tying you to a supplier. The entire smart meter programme has been completely botched. Another example of the shitty governments we have had to live under; managing to turn something that should be the consumers golden ticket into a shit show is typical of the UK energy market. Ultimately, we have to have smart meters. We need them for dynamic grid management, from the power companies pov, but we also need them as critical infrastructure that enables consumers to participate in the necessary market management we need. The issue with this is that dynamic demand side response (DSR) management should act to benefit consumers. I've worked up a variety of proposals that target shifting demand to secure lower bills for consumers plus lower peak demand on the grid, which is the single biggest factor affecting the cost of the energy network. My view is that such DSR system need to be organised at community level, because some consumers (the elderly, those with school age children) will find it difficult to adapt their consumption patterns to benefit from time flexible tariffs. At a community scale though, this works - if 1000 homes can function as a unit to deliver demand reductions on request, all can benefit. Organising such schemes demands high quality smart meters, and it all highly feasible, in technical terms. The problem we have is that we are looking at smart meters as things supplied by the energy suppliers, rather than as part of a national infrastructure project designed to benefit consumers and the environment, along with the energy industry. I can't comment on specific issues obviously, and I'm now officially rambling, after an early doors Sunday drinking session, but in essence what I'm trying to say is that smart meters are absolutely essential. It's just that the UK has completely goofed the roll out, largely, I suspect, because no one sat down to work out why we should have them, and no one in government approached this from the consumers pov. As ever.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 14, 2022 17:39:24 GMT
Politics is much better when people's personal relationships are left out of it. I've read heavy prejudgements today that I hoped were consigned to the dustbin of history. OTT moralising really stinks. I totally agree unless it reveals something major about a person's character. The only politician I can immediately think of in this category is Boris Johnson. His treatment of his wives and several of his mistresses was truly appalling. For example in the case of Petronella Wyatt, who he got pregnant twice while married to his second wife (resulting in one miscarriage and one abortion), Johnson was apparently telling her throughout their affair that he would divorce his wife and marry her, i.e. a liar as well as a adulterer. Then there was the woman who had to go to court to get him to acknowledge paternity of their child. This becomes relevant when combined with his history of being sacked for lying to his first editor and later to his party leader, conspiring to have a journalist beaten up, channeling public money and jobs to yet more mistresses, serial lying and casual racism and sexism and you realise this is a man with no moral compass whatever, who should never have been allowed anywhere near any position of power. Compared to that issues mentioned about Major, Corbyn, Ashdown, Truss and the others are clearly just private matters between them and their partners and families of no public interest.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 14, 2022 17:45:52 GMT
Reflecting on earlier PMs I would consider it likely that the following adhered to chastity before marriage - Baldwin - Chamberlain - Churchill - Attlee - Macmillan- Douglas - Home - Wilson - Callaghan -Thatcher - May. Not sure about Gordon Brown as a son of the Manse. You can have no possible idea about any of that and most of us aren't interested. As to Brown, he was 48 when he married his long term girlfriend Sarah Macaulay (she was 36). I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
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Post by mandolinist on Aug 14, 2022 17:46:03 GMT
Good grief graham, this obsession with what other people do in the bedroom is so boring. For what it is worth, I grew up in a very religiously active household, chapel twice every Sunday and twice during the week. It didn't stop members of the congregation playing away, indeed the hypocrisy of those people was one of the things which helped convince me in my atheism. Can we please move on from this?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 17:54:53 GMT
Reflecting on earlier PMs I would consider it likely that the following adhered to chastity before marriage - Baldwin - Chamberlain - Churchill - Attlee - Macmillan- Douglas - Home - Wilson - Callaghan -Thatcher - May. Not sure about Gordon Brown as a son of the Manse. Good grief, this is becoming insane.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 17:57:10 GMT
Reflecting on earlier PMs I would consider it likely that the following adhered to chastity before marriage - Baldwin - Chamberlain - Churchill - Attlee - Macmillan- Douglas - Home - Wilson - Callaghan -Thatcher - May. Not sure about Gordon Brown as a son of the Manse. You can have no possible idea about any of that and most of us aren't interested. As to Brown, he was 48 when he married his long term girlfriend Sarah Macaulay (she was 36). I'll let you draw your own conclusions. The point is that many people did go out together for years before sleeping together In my sister's case it was over 4 years. No idea re- Brown. As for earlier PMs it is not unreasonable to assume that they abided by the social customs of their time. Mary Wilson was a clergyman's daughter - as was Theresa May. Callaghan was a Sunday School teacher. Baldwin, Chamberlain and Attlee are likely to have been pretty straight-laced. Thatcher likewise . Lloyd George - definitely not - Eden probably not . Ditto Major.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Aug 14, 2022 17:58:41 GMT
Reflecting on earlier PMs I would consider it likely that the following adhered to chastity before marriage - Baldwin - Chamberlain - Churchill - Attlee - Macmillan- Douglas - Home - Wilson - Callaghan -Thatcher - May. Not sure about Gordon Brown as a son of the Manse. Not sure what you base that on, but Churchill had at last one affair while he was married
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 14, 2022 18:02:23 GMT
I think 99% is far too high. My apologies, in this American study its a mere 95%. "According to the analysis, by age 44, 99% of respondents had had sex, and 95% had done so before marriage. Even among those who abstained from sex until age 20 or older, 81% had had premarital sex by age 44." And of course the US is a much more religious country than the UK. www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2006/premarital-sex-nearly-universal-among-americans-and-has-been-decades#:~:text=The%20new%20study%20uses%20data,had%20done%20so%20before%20marriage. I've never grasped why the Abrahamic religions have this weird obsession with condemning a natural biological function. It has been the cause of much misery and injustice throughout the last 2000 years. Presumably its another form of social control of the masses by the elites.
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Post by johntel on Aug 14, 2022 18:02:53 GMT
Overall ,however, it seemed highly unlikely that many who were active in such societies of various denominations would engage in fornication. Those who argue that 99% did behave in that way are assuming that their own experiences and circles were typical.
Just for the record, I'm in favour of as much fornication as possible - between consenting fornicators of course. What a great word fornicate is - fornicate fornicate fornicate! (Apologies in advance if it's not allowed mark).
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 18:03:02 GMT
Reflecting on earlier PMs I would consider it likely that the following adhered to chastity before marriage - Baldwin - Chamberlain - Churchill - Attlee - Macmillan- Douglas - Home - Wilson - Callaghan -Thatcher - May. Not sure about Gordon Brown as a son of the Manse. Not sure what you base that on, but Churchill had at last one affair while he was married I am aware of that. It is suggested it occurred in the 1930s. He and Clemmie were often apart for many months in a given year. Churchill is not generally thought of though as having had a high sex drive!
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 18:06:30 GMT
I think 99% is far too high. My apologies, in this American study its a mere 95%. "According to the analysis, by age 44, 99% of respondents had had sex, and 95% had done so before marriage. Even among those who abstained from sex until age 20 or older, 81% had had premarital sex by age 44." And of course the US is a much more religious country that the UK. www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2006/premarital-sex-nearly-universal-among-americans-and-has-been-decades#:~:text=The%20new%20study%20uses%20data,had%20done%20so%20before%20marriage. I've never grasped why the Abrahamic religions have this weird obsession with condemning a natural biological function. It has been the cause of much misery and injustice throughout the last 2000 years. Presumably its another form of social control of the masses by the elites. Quite a few people would include masturbation under the heading 'having had sex'. Others would include Fellattio - even if no penetration took place.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 14, 2022 18:10:48 GMT
Quite a few people would include masturbation under the heading 'having had sex'. Others would include Fellattio - even if no penetration took place. Perhaps you could issue us with a list of approved practices - although, on second thoughts, best not.
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Post by alec on Aug 14, 2022 18:15:57 GMT
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Post by alec on Aug 14, 2022 18:17:39 GMT
Probably find our graham has a sex thing about parrots or somesuch. It's the usual way with sexual behaviour moralisers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 18:21:26 GMT
My apologies, in this American study its a mere 95%. "According to the analysis, by age 44, 99% of respondents had had sex, and 95% had done so before marriage. Even among those who abstained from sex until age 20 or older, 81% had had premarital sex by age 44." And of course the US is a much more religious country that the UK. www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2006/premarital-sex-nearly-universal-among-americans-and-has-been-decades#:~:text=The%20new%20study%20uses%20data,had%20done%20so%20before%20marriage. I've never grasped why the Abrahamic religions have this weird obsession with condemning a natural biological function. It has been the cause of much misery and injustice throughout the last 2000 years. Presumably its another form of social control of the masses by the elites. Quite a few people would include masturbation under the heading 'having had sex'. Others would include Fellattio - even if no penetration took place. Never considered that you might be a wanker.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 18:24:34 GMT
The point is that many people did go out together for years before sleeping together In my sister's case it was over 4 years. Were you there Sir? In the room Sir?-ooh. ooh ! Did she want it Sir ? - You in the room Sir ? Suit you Sir -ooh ooh !
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 18:25:20 GMT
The point is that many people did go out together for years before sleeping together In my sister's case it was over 4 years. No idea re- Brown.
The real point is that none of us give toss about your analysis of other people’s private sex lives - either Gordon Brown’s, your sister’s or anyone else’s. I suspect that if news had emerged in early 1975 that Thatcher had been involved in affairs such as now associated with Truss , her leadership bid to oust Heath would have been scuppered. That would have implied that quite a few do care. Ditto May in 2016.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 18:27:47 GMT
The point is that many people did go out together for years before sleeping together In my sister's case it was over 4 years. Were you there Sir? In the room Sir?-ooh. ooh ! Did she want it Sir ? - You in the room Sir ? Suit you Sir -ooh ooh ! Are you seriously suggesting that decades ago almost nobody adhered to 'chastity before marriage.?Even in the 1950s?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 14, 2022 18:27:54 GMT
The purpose of smart meters is, at least ostensibly, to show the user the cost of energy being used in near real time, so that they can adjust their usage accordingly. Whether we yet have the technology to do that accurately is debatable, but if we can get there it would significantly assist people with their energy usage and bills. Yes, but after you have played a few times switching things on and off to see how much power usage changes, you start to think, 'so what'? Like, you arent going to switch off the telly because you now know how much power it uses. Ultimately, we have to have smart meters. We need them for dynamic grid management, from the power companies pov, but we also need them as critical infrastructure that enables consumers to participate in the necessary market management we need. The issue with this is that dynamic demand side response (DSR) management should act to benefit consumers. Thats nice, but current meters cant do that. To manage demand on the fly you would need to communicate with things like freezers, to switch off for an hour at high demand. Simply impossible with current meters. Slightly easier is the ability to charge different amounts at different times, which they may be able to do, but thats not very helpful unless owners know and can plan to avoid expensive times. At the moment they look like a means for companies to make a bit of extra cash, paid to install them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 18:31:22 GMT
Were you there Sir? In the room Sir?-ooh. ooh ! Did she want it Sir ? - You in the room Sir ? Suit you Sir -ooh ooh ! Are you seriously suggesting that decades ago almost nobody adhered to 'chastity before marriage.?Even in the 1950s? No . I was suggesting you might enjoy this :- www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-r28Mx0quM
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Aug 14, 2022 18:37:42 GMT
The real point is that none of us give toss about your analysis of other people’s private sex lives - either Gordon Brown’s, your sister’s or anyone else’s. I suspect that if news had emerged in early 1975 that Thatcher had been involved in affairs such as now associated with Truss , her leadership bid to oust Heath would have been scuppered. That would have implied that quite a few do care. Ditto May in 2016. Really? Everyone at Westminster knew that Harold MacMillan tolerated his wife's long-running affair with Bob Boothby. Quite rightly, it had no effect on him becoming PM. There were a lot of private questions over Ted Heath's sexuality and that had no effect on him becoming Tory leader and eventually PM. I am not sure most people care about this stuff as much as you want them to.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 18:49:20 GMT
I suspect that if news had emerged in early 1975 that Thatcher had been involved in affairs such as now associated with Truss , her leadership bid to oust Heath would have been scuppered. That would have implied that quite a few do care. Ditto May in 2016. Really? Everyone at Westminster knew that Harold MacMillan tolerated his wife's long-running affair with Bob Boothby. Quite rightly, it had no effect on him becoming PM. There were a lot of private questions over Ted Heath's sexuality and that had no effect on him becoming Tory leader and eventually PM. I am not sure most people care about this stuff as much as you want them to. Dorothy Macmillan's longstanding affair was not really public knowledge until after his death in 1986. Moreover he would surely have been seen as the victim. Not true of Truss today - nor would it have been so had it applied to Thatcher in 1975.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 18:50:46 GMT
The point is that many people did go out together for years before sleeping together In my sister's case it was over 4 years. Were you there Sir? In the room Sir?-ooh. ooh ! Did she want it Sir ? - You in the room Sir ? Suit you Sir -ooh ooh ! I’m more reminded of the Python pub sketch with Terry Jones as the man about town and Graham playing the Eric Idle role. More seriously, I can’t say I ever expected to read somebody discussing their sister’s pre- marital sexual choices on a political forum. I wonder if she would approve?
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