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Post by laszlo4new on Aug 14, 2022 10:18:57 GMT
That seemed very low laszlo4new I think their laws are a bit more complex than that :- "in Belgium, people with a light physical workload can work in a maximum heat of 29 °C, a moderately heavy workload at 26 °C, 22 °C for heavy physical workloads and at 18 °C for a very heavy physical workload." Brussel Times Good topic though. Surprised that the major economies in Europe -incl. UK-don't legislate for this. But I guess thats just one example of the many which will emerge , of the adaptations which will be forced on us as our temperature rises. Yes colin - I should have been more careful. I got the information in n email last night (I asked for it as the whole thing started to interest me as once I didn't have to go to my office when it was 25 degrees in the office, but apparently it is not rule anymore) and I was careless with my comment. There are four columns in the table of the Belgian law - temperature, adjusted temperature, absolute maximum - and rows with the different kinds of physical aspects of the work, and I just took one of the bottom of the 2nd column... Thanks for the correction.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 10:26:25 GMT
graham Did you make the point that Johnson's well-known extra marital affairs made him unsuitable to be PM? Or is your moral outrage reserved only for women who have affairs? I take the former view - Johnson's affairs did render him unsuitable to be PM. He is 'not a gentleman.' Ditto Lloyd George. I am no great fan of 'the permissive society' , and believe my opinions would have been seen as mainstream circa 1970.
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Post by hireton on Aug 14, 2022 10:31:25 GMT
The so called "levelling up fund" is a fig-leaf programme and seems to be as politically as needs driven. It seems Tory Ministers have rejected a proposal from the Public Accounts Committee to reduce Ministerial influence over specific decisions as opposed to Ministers setting the criteria. www.theguardian.com/inequality/2022/aug/14/ministers-reject-attempt-to-curb-political-influence-over-the-allocation-of-levelling-up-fundsOne of the more striking examples given in the article is this one: "Central Bedfordshire council won £6.8m of funding to improve the A6/A507 roundabout at the village of Clophill, which lies on the River Flit, in a bid that was supported by culture secretary and local MP Nadine Dorries." Firstly, it is difficult to see how a local road improvement will make much difference to "levelling up". Secondly, there is a system for central government to support local transport infrastucture in the English local government finance settlement and surely "levelling up" should be a key factor in those decisions and this road improvement if a priority should be part of that. Thirdly, these indicators do not suggest that Clophill is especially in need of levelling up: www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-clophill-bedfordshire-8705.htmlFinally, no grant scheme should explicitly involve support from a local MP as a guide in decision making.
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Post by hireton on Aug 14, 2022 10:32:40 GMT
graham Did you make the point that Johnson's well-known extra marital affairs made him unsuitable to be PM? Or is your moral outrage reserved only for women who have affairs? I take the former view - Johnson's affairs did render him unsuitable to be PM. He is 'not a gentleman.' Ditto Lloyd George. I am no great fan of 'the permissive society' , and believe my opinions would have been seen as mainstream circa 1970.
You may take that view but I don't remember you expressing it at the time. Half a century ago is a long time in politics and society.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 10:36:21 GMT
I take the former view - Johnson's affairs did render him unsuitable to be PM. He is 'not a gentleman.' Ditto Lloyd George. I am no great fan of 'the permissive society' , and believe my opinions would have been seen as mainstream circa 1970.
You may take that view but I don't remember you expressing it at the time. Half a century ago is a long time in politics and society. I have in the past been critical of Cecil Parkinson,David Mellor , Paddy Ashdown , Robin Cook and David Blunkett.
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Post by matt126 on Aug 14, 2022 10:37:30 GMT
Interested to see that Starmer is going to align with Davey on energy costs-freezing the cap as is . No indication of how the funding would work. Sunday Times reports that Scottish Power and Eon proposed this to Johnson & Zahawi-government guaranteed loans to producers to freeze prices for two years-The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. Two years to be spent " rethinking the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices." It is also reported this was pitched to Sunak as CoE but he preferred state support for increasing bills. ST reports on the eye watering cost :- "If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion." IMF called for governments to expose customers to to market prices as a nudge to reduce energy consumption . In a sense that is the Green/Environmental approach. But state help with bills will be a must. At least for a while. Which begs the Big Question-how long will these price levels last ? Over to Vlad for that one.
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Post by pete on Aug 14, 2022 10:41:23 GMT
Your fixation on her personal life is curious - in the 1990s we had a Tory Prime Minister, Labour Deputy PM and LibDem leader who were all at the time or subsequently revealed to be having extramarital affairs whilst in senior office. And the President of the US did a national address where he outright lied about his own infidelities** and it ultimately didn't matter at all. And 30 years later you seem to be evoking some kind of outrage that Truss has in the past slept with someone who was married to someone else (if I've understood you correctly). So two separate questions - why do you think this should matter, and why do you think it would have any political traction at all? (** I'm not trivialising what Clinton did, I think the Democrats are right to now regard it as more serious and an abuse of power. My reference to it was just about how it was seen at the time) Major's fling with Edwina was not public knowledge in 1990 when he ran for the leadership in succession to Thatcher. Had it been so, I doubt that he would have been elected . Similarly I find it difficult to imagine Thatcher being elected in 1975 - or Theresa May in 2016 - with such personal baggage. By her past behaviour as a married woman Truss has revealed herself to be 'quite a goer' - but is certainly not 'a lady'. I am afraid it rather conveys the sense of her being a rather 'loose woman.' 'loose woman'...jeez! Did i just fall back in time to the '70s? I thought we'd left those sort of moronic phrases and attitudes well behind us.
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Post by matt126 on Aug 14, 2022 10:47:21 GMT
With regards to the energy price surely state support for Energy prices make sense providing the Energy price spike is short term. Markets can change very quickly the other way as well so they are not guaranteed to continue rising so sharply. The issue is that the government with its handouts will keep prices higher for longer as they are giving loans to energy companies which need to be paid back , so even if gas prices fell in the medium term customers would still be paying back. It is in the governments interests that state intervention in the energy market keeps prices down. Keeping the price down will drastically reduce the inflation rate short term and will reduce the increases in state pensions and public sector pay needed, saving the government money in medium term. These rises could fuel inflation as well.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 14, 2022 10:48:49 GMT
graham Given that more than half the children born in the UK now have parents who are unmarried( at least to each other) this would seem a somewhat unnecessary restriction on choice. Ah but its never about what the nation wants, or even a majority of the nation wants. Its about the minority supporting one party, and the even smaller minority who could however be decisive in an election if they turn out or not. Although Cameron introduced gay marriage (as distinct from civil partnership) it was conservative MPs opposing it in parliament while it passed through labour support. Brexit is supposedly a return to old fashioned values. "in Belgium, people with a light physical workload can work in a maximum heat of 29 °C, a moderately heavy workload at 26 °C, 22 °C for heavy physical workloads and at 18 °C for a very heavy physical workload." I would think such a law would have prevented the use of steamships during the industrial revolution, or possibly steam power almost entirely. Very hot boilers had to be stoked by hand. Its a bit like the way permitted levels of radiation exposure in industry have fallen as means of detecting and preventing exposure have improved. We only introduce laws like this once we have already found a way to do without that sort of labour. Before that, tough.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 10:57:18 GMT
By her past behaviour as a married woman Truss has revealed herself to be 'quite a goer' - but is certainly not 'a lady'. I am afraid it rather conveys the sense of her being a rather 'loose woman.' *** ADMIN *** The subject of past sexual liasons is a legitimate one - as being a site that discusses polling, it will be one that will influence some votes - and much has been made of those of Johnson. Discussion of how or whether such things will affect polling is absolutely fine. Discussion of issues around this, for example, whether such things would affect a female candidate more than a male one, is also absolutely fine. I will, however, ask that such discussions do not resort to misogyny/sexism. What I have highlighted above is tame compared to one or two other things I have read on this thread and will remind members that - as stated in the board rules - sexism is not aceptable here. @mark,
I cannot imagine you are referring to my 'old shag' comment - but perhaps you are. Some context is relevant here. The person who came up with this phrase advises me that its origins can be traced to the BBC comedy programme 'Not the nine o.clock news'. In an episode broadcast circa 1980 - very early in Thatcher's term as PM - there was film of Thatcher and Helmut Schmidt attending a EEC conference. At the time there was a regular TV advert relating to tobacco or cigars which included background classical music. In the comedy sketch clips were shown of Thatcher and Schmidt smiling back at each other as the latter puffed away on his pipe. The classical music was there too. Suddenly there was a flash across the screen 'Helmut Schmidt's Old Shag - ready rubbed'. The audience found it very funny. Apparently that is where the updated version comes from. There was never any suggestion of personal impropriety re- Thatcher in such matters.
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Post by robbiealive on Aug 14, 2022 10:58:36 GMT
That latter day Jeremy Corbyn and nouveau darling of the Tory Bashing cognoscenti , Mick Lynch has found time in his busy schedule to tell NS what he believes in-or not as the case may be :- Colin, the grammar police, as you may know, never sleep. They are doing random checks on hyphenation and commas and have suggested the following revised version of yr first paragraph on Lynch. "That latter-day Jeremy Corbyn and nouveaux-darling of the Tory-Bashing cognoscenti, Mick Lynch, has found time in his busy schedule to tell (the) NS what he believes in - or not - as the case may be:" The Brexit Section of the G.P., quadrupled in size by Mogg's post-2016 recruitment, has also ruled that posters avoid fancy, foreign words - Nouveau Cognoscenti - and instead use Anglo-Saxon equivalents where possible.
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Post by RAF on Aug 14, 2022 11:04:17 GMT
Interested to see that Starmer is going to align with Davey on energy costs-freezing the cap as is . No indication of how the funding would work. Sunday Times reports that Scottish Power and Eon proposed this to Johnson & Zahawi-government guaranteed loans to producers to freeze prices for two years-The loans would be repaid over 10 to 15 years, either by suppliers adding a small surcharge to customers’ bills, or through adding the cost to general taxation. Two years to be spent " rethinking the wholesale energy market, including measures such as unlinking electricity prices from gas prices." It is also reported this was pitched to Sunak as CoE but he preferred state support for increasing bills. ST reports on the eye watering cost :- "If the fund were to cover all 22 million households on default tariffs, it would need about £50 billion from banks. If it were to cover only the most vulnerable, it would still require more than £20 billion." IMF called for governments to expose customers to to market prices as a nudge to reduce energy consumption . In a sense that is the Green/Environmental approach. But state help with bills will be a must. At least for a while. Which begs the Big Question-how long will these price levels last ? Over to Vlad for that one. £50Bn in this context is seen as unaffordable whereas Liz is prepared to borrow £50Bn to pay for tax cuts that would predominantly benefit the wealthy. Also I think the halfway house of only providing support to the most vulnerable really wouldn't work. We're far beyond that now. Millions who do not fall within that bracket would also find the likely increases unaffordable. If government and the industry has a medium term plan to persuade people to reduce consumption and for the retail cost of energy to be clearer, then smart meters should be mandatory. Most of the 22M people on variable tariffs don't have smart meters.
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Post by mandolinist on Aug 14, 2022 11:16:04 GMT
Re smart meters.
I don't have one, I have an older gizmo, an owl, attached to my meter with a reader in my living room. It gives live usage information to me, rather than the supply company. Until the problems with smart meters are worked through, especially the difficulties if you are in a mobile blackspot and the non-transferability of the smart functions, it will remain a no from me. A friend agreed to have one fitted, but when they came to fit it, it was discovered that it could not work in the underground garage of his block of flats where the meters were situated. It hasn't stopped his supply company regularly harassing him to have one fitted. There continue to be regular articles in the Guardian and elsewhere where consumers are charged huge amounts for incorrect information being sent to the supplier by the smart meters. How can such a disfunctional system be made mandatory?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Aug 14, 2022 11:17:30 GMT
Raising interest rates didnt stop inflation in Thatcher's time, and it wont now. How did the inflation end? maybe because wage levels readjusted to rebalance supply and demand and the economy transformed. The whole thing was begun by fuel price shocks, just as now. Industry had to readjust to operating using expensive energy. I see it ending exactly the same way, which would suggest it lasting ten years at least, once again. However, if we can get fuel prices back down it will end sooner. Is that possible? Surely its perfectly doable if we deliberately set about boosting renewables energy, so thats what we are doing? er...oh....no...government has withdrawn subsidies for that sort of thing.
What does rising fuel prices have to do with anything within the powers of the Bank of England? Nothing at all?
The unanimous verdict of this site is that Sunak would make the best Tory PM: Please....better not best. Ken Clarke might be good if not senile. Teresa May might do better than Sunak. They could ask Tony Blair to be tory PM again.
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Post by somerjohn on Aug 14, 2022 11:24:10 GMT
RobbieAlive: "The Brexit Section of the G.P., quadrupled in size by Mogg's post-2016 recruitment, has also ruled that posters avoid fancy, foreign words - Nouveau Cognoscenti - and instead use Anglo-Saxon equivalents where possible."
I recently saw a discussion as to whether English is the most latinised of the Germanic languages. The conclusion was that it definitely is, with an example text shown in the original, thus:
After the United Kingdom withdraws from the European Union in 2019, there will be a transitional period for two years, from the day of its departure until it finally withdraws from the Single Market and Customs Union, and ends free movement of citizens. The British government will introduce new legislation for this purpose in the next session of Parliament, but this will face great opposition from the right of the Conservative Party, who want a complete break with Brussels following the 2016 referendum.
And with the "fancy, foreign" words replaced with their equivalents of Anglo-Saxon origin:
After the Foreoned Kingdom withdraws from the European Foreoning in 2019, there will be an overgoing time for two years, from the day of its outgoing until it endily withdraws from the Onely Handling and Toll Foreoning, and ends free bewaying of boroughers. The British rulering will forebring new lawgiving for this outgive in the next sitting of Speakering, but this will onsee great againstsetting from the right of the Upsparing Offscything, who want a fullstandy break with Brussels following the 2016 folkbackchoosing.
Could taking back control of English be Rees-Moggs's next project? Should appeal to Upsparing Offscything members like Mercian...
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Post by laszlo4new on Aug 14, 2022 11:31:02 GMT
The oddities of the world economy.
The Egyptian government ordered the air conditioning to be turned up in shopping malls and government offices, and turn down the strength of street lights.
The purpose is to have more gas for exports (communicated as "helping countries that struggle with shortage of gas" - it is true, of course, just...).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 11:35:22 GMT
graham Did you make the point that Johnson's well-known extra marital affairs made him unsuitable to be PM? Or is your moral outrage reserved only for women who have affairs? I take the former view - Johnson's affairs did render him unsuitable to be PM. He is 'not a gentleman.' Ditto Lloyd George. I am no great fan of 'the permissive society' , and believe my opinions would have been seen as mainstream circa 1970.
I think you mean circa 1790. I remember in 60s London it was fairly mainstream to see signs for bedsits saying: “No blacks/no Irish.” Does that mean those are values we should still uphold because they were once “mainstream”?
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 11:51:27 GMT
I take the former view - Johnson's affairs did render him unsuitable to be PM. He is 'not a gentleman.' Ditto Lloyd George. I am no great fan of 'the permissive society' , and believe my opinions would have been seen as mainstream circa 1970.
I think you mean circa 1790. I remember in 60s London it was fairly mainstream to see signs for bedsits saying: “No blacks/no Irish.” Does that mean those are values we should still uphold because they were once “mainstream”? Strong opposition to racism and discrimination does not impose an obligation to believe in laissez-faire moral standards - any more than we should feel compelled to adhere to the laissez-faire economics orthodoxy of the 1980s.
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Post by mercian on Aug 14, 2022 11:54:03 GMT
@robbie alive If we're getting into pedantry - "nouveaux-darling" nouveaux is a plural, so shouldn't be attached to a singular noun. "Nouveau Cognoscenti" nouveau is singular while cognoscenti is plural. I await correction by someone even more pedantic. Where's oldnat? ------------------------------------ somerjohn"Could taking back control of English be Rees-Moggs's next project? Should appeal to Upsparing Offscything members like Mercian..." From his name, Rees-Mogg should be more interested in taking back control of Welsh, despite his faux English upper-class act. And I am not a member of the Upsparing Offscything. 😁
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 11:56:21 GMT
robbiealiveI quite like hyphens usually-but gave them a rest in that one. My post required the singular ,"nouveau" , not your plural. Perhaps you need more sleep ? I quite like appropriately used "foreign words". You should try not to listen to people like R-M , and to be a little less insular. Could you learn how to post outside the quotation box ? Otherwise it is hard to distinguish between the quote and the response. Anyone here would be willing to help you , i am sure , ( including me )
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Post by Mark on Aug 14, 2022 11:56:51 GMT
@mark, I cannot imagine you are referring to my 'old shag' comment - but perhaps you are. Some context is relevant here. The person who came up with this phrase advises me that its origins can be traced to the BBC comedy programme 'Not the nine o.clock news'. In an episode broadcast circa 1980 - very early in Thatcher's term as PM - there was film of Thatcher and Helmut Schmidt attending a EEC conference. At the time there was a regular TV advert relating to tobacco or cigars which included background classical music. In the comedy sketch clips were shown of Thatcher and Schmidt smiling back at each other as the latter puffed away on his pipe. The classical music was there too. Suddenly there was a flash across the screen 'Helmut Schmidt's Old Shag - ready rubbed'. The audience found it very funny. Apparently that is where the updated version comes from. There was never any suggestion of personal impropriety re- Thatcher in such matters. It was indeed something I was indirectly referring to. The tobacco/intercourse joke is one that has has been done many times down the ages (and more recently in an episode of Blackadder Goes Forth). The way it was used was referencing a 40-odd year old comedy sketch which some - likely many - members...and others reading this board - would not have seen or be aware of, but, more to the point, used on here with all references to tobacco ommitted. Furthermore, it was one of a number of things posted. I am not challenging the fact that you hold the view that you would not vote for someone who has had extra marital affairs. It is also noted that you apply this equally to both male and female politicians. There will also be others that share this view and as already said, on a polling site, that is something for legitamate discussion. It is perfectly possible to have that discussion without, to put it mildly, sexist overtones. Also, while your explanation of the reference you made is welcome, an attempt to challenge an 'admin' post is not.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 12:12:49 GMT
@mark, I cannot imagine you are referring to my 'old shag' comment - but perhaps you are. Some context is relevant here. The person who came up with this phrase advises me that its origins can be traced to the BBC comedy programme 'Not the nine o.clock news'. In an episode broadcast circa 1980 - very early in Thatcher's term as PM - there was film of Thatcher and Helmut Schmidt attending a EEC conference. At the time there was a regular TV advert relating to tobacco or cigars which included background classical music. In the comedy sketch clips were shown of Thatcher and Schmidt smiling back at each other as the latter puffed away on his pipe. The classical music was there too. Suddenly there was a flash across the screen 'Helmut Schmidt's Old Shag - ready rubbed'. The audience found it very funny. Apparently that is where the updated version comes from. There was never any suggestion of personal impropriety re- Thatcher in such matters. It was indeed something I was indirectly referring to. The tobacco/intercourse joke is one that has has been done many times down the ages (and more recently in an episode of Blackadder Goes Forth). The way it was used was referencing a 40-odd year old comedy sketch which some - likely many - members...and others reading this board - would not have seen or be aware of, but, more to the point, used on here with all references to tobacco ommitted. Furthermore, it was one of a number of things posted. I am not challenging the fact that you hold the view that you would not vote for someone who has had extra marital affairs. It is also noted that you apply this equally to both male and female politicians. There will also be others that share this view and as already said, on a polling site, that is something for legitamate discussion. It is perfectly possible to have that discussion without, to put it mildly, sexist overtones. Also, while your explanation of the reference you made is welcome, an attempt to challenge an 'admin' post is not. It was not a challenge - but information - given that your former post had not been specific.
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Post by Mark on Aug 14, 2022 12:21:24 GMT
It was not a challenge - but information - given that your former post had not been specific. Ok, thank you for the clarification.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 14, 2022 12:21:30 GMT
You may take that view but I don't remember you expressing it at the time. Half a century ago is a long time in politics and society. I have in the past been critical of Cecil Parkinson,David Mellor , Paddy Ashdown , Robin Cook and David Blunkett. They must have been crest-fallen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 12:21:42 GMT
I think you mean circa 1790. I remember in 60s London it was fairly mainstream to see signs for bedsits saying: “No blacks/no Irish.” Does that mean those are values we should still uphold because they were once “mainstream”? Strong opposition to racism and discrimination does not impose an obligation to believe in laissez-faire moral standards - any more than we should feel compelled to adhere to the laissez-faire economics orthodoxy of the 1980s. You stated that your opinions (which, thankfully, only a tiny percentage of the country now share) were: “mainstream in the 70s” (which they weren’t) as though that somehow vindicated them and meant they were still relevant and acceptable to the 2020s. It doesn’t and they’re not.
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Post by thexterminatingdalek on Aug 14, 2022 12:22:43 GMT
Sometimes, you know, it's an altogether better look to just stop digging
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 12:22:58 GMT
I have in the past been critical of Cecil Parkinson,David Mellor , Paddy Ashdown , Robin Cook and David Blunkett. They must have been crest-fallen. I believe they all left politics, shortly after being made aware of this.
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Post by graham on Aug 14, 2022 12:39:52 GMT
The idea that we all have to run with the crowd is itself an authoritarian view of the world in terms of the pressure placed on minority dissenters to conform to the new reality. I disagreed with Mary Whitehouse on many issues - though not all - but always felt she was entitled to express her minority - held opinions in the face of much lampooning by her critics.The suggestion that we must all change our 1970s view of an issue because so many others have done so is pretty illiberal.
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Aug 14, 2022 13:00:51 GMT
Most of the 22M people on variable tariffs don't have smart meters. I don't have a smart meter. I do, however, have a smart meter reader -- me! I don't know what a smart meter is, but I know how to read my meters and have weekly meter readings going back to May 2009, when I was curious as to my daily usage. Now I know (ca 20kwh for the leccy, currently 1.5 gas units and 700 ltrs per day for water). It's not rocket science, just a spreadsheet. Take today's readings, next week do the same, subtract and divide by 7. (Ok, I wrote a Lisp script to work it out for me so I can take the readings at any time.) I just don't see the point of a smart meter, especially if you have to have some propriety tool to read them; my kids had one and then changed suppliers, and the crappy tool ceased working.
So what is the point of a smart meter? I suspect it is so the utilities can cut the cost of the dude who comes round from time to time to make a company reading -- ie it is purely a long-term cost-cutting measure for the utilities, for their benefit only. I have ignored all the (sometimes quite vociferous) request to get one installed. I have used my system for 13 years, and am quite happy, thank you very much.
[Written within a smart meter-free zone.]
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alurqa
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Post by alurqa on Aug 14, 2022 13:13:37 GMT
Could you learn how to post outside the quotation box ? Otherwise it is hard to distinguish between the quote and the response. Anyone here would be willing to help you , i am sure , ( including me ) See below: That latter day Jeremy Corbyn and nouveau darling of the Tory Bashing cognoscenti , Mick Lynch has found time in his busy schedule to tell NS what he believes in-or not as the case may be :- Colin, the grammar police, as you may know, never sleep. They are doing random checks on hyphenation and commas and have suggested the following revised version of yr first paragraph on Lynch. "That latter-day Jeremy Corbyn and nouveaux-darling of the Tory-Bashing cognoscenti, Mick Lynch, has found time in his busy schedule to tell (the) NS what he believes in - or not - as the case may be:" The Brexit Section of the G.P., quadrupled in size by Mogg's post-2016 recruitment, has also ruled that posters avoid fancy, foreign words - Nouveau Cognoscenti - and instead use Anglo-Saxon equivalents where possible. Click on the BBCode tab at the bottom of the editor, then type after the last [ /quote] tag. I always use the BBCode tab as that way you can see what you are doing (and the wysiwyg editor has too many bugs, especially if you want to use square brackets...). Edit: the image below shows colin 's text in green, robbiealive 's text in red, and my text in blue. I've made bold the quote tags, so you can see how the text is constructed. This text gives you the output above. Because robbiealive 's text is within colin 's quotes, it shows up as text colin has typed. Hope that helps. :-)
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