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Post by mercian on Dec 10, 2021 22:11:46 GMT
So in your view there are two types of xenophobia, one which is against fellow Europeans which is bad, and one against mass immigration from outside Europe which is not so bad? Isn't that racist? i.e. its worse to be against white people than non-white? It's a complex area that needs to be thought through before you do the knee-jerk 'British is bad' thing. I'm against xenophobia of any kind. But I don't like the dressing up of Brexit as something different from what it was. As far as I was concerned I voted Leave because I wanted to be able to help vote for or against whoever was in government - i.e. sovereignty. EU elections were just a fraud as the EU parliament did not have any powers. Others may have had other reasons, but to assume that all Leavers were xenophobic is wrong. There is a difference between hating a system of government and hating all other people in other countries suffering under that system. |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 10, 2021 22:13:38 GMT
oh I was concerned about it, but I wondered what Colin or others might say, and was thinking some more about it in a wider context. Because it is part of the way some middle classes might stack the deck. Keep the working classes below while trying to eradicate privilege above them. And we have seen a lot of advantaging of the middle class in substantial ways, including the big ramping up of house prices, cuts to CGT etc., while the more working class get conditions eroded in big ways, the demise of full employment, ridiculous housing costs, and just get sticking plasters. - I can't disagree with a word you say. What can be done about the demise of full employment, ridiculous housing costs etc I honestly don't know (build many more houses I suppose but that gets overruled by mainly Tory nimbys). I think it's not a problem we could solve on our own as a country unless we went for some kind of command economy autarky. A large part of the world is facing the same issues or much worse but Brexit or vague allusions to levelling up by a chancer are not even going to touch the sides. politicians have a habit of trying to lock in their schemes to make them hard to fix later. Ramp up house prices and you create a cadre of voters who may resist its undoing. Then if they keep those lower down in a precarious existence, they won’t as likely vote to protect themselves. full employment involves the government doing more if what it used to do and creating good jobs. But these days, this can fall foul of trade regs, a way the globalists try and lock stuff in, and a reason why some on the left have issues with trade deals. the state used to build more housing, of course, instead of stoking house prices, but yes there might be resistance. Neil A, who was worried about this, used to suggest more high density housing in less NIMBY locations. Regarding Boris, some people focus on his flakiness quotient, and fair enough, but flaketastic Starmer, who rows back on his pledges, and piles into the left in his party after they backed him, is given a free pass. |
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Post by hireton on Dec 10, 2021 22:14:11 GMT
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Post by jib on Dec 10, 2021 22:15:30 GMT
mercianAgree. tancred was baiting today. Not worthy of a bite to a tired lure.
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Post by mercian on Dec 10, 2021 22:20:18 GMT
Thanks, I've been forgetting to follow it. More wrapped up in Ashes. I'll look at the games - thanks. That's the most decisive WC match for many years I think.
Yes.
Magnus won four and lost zero. the last time that happened Capablanca beat Lasker (1921).
Lasker actually offered to just gift the title to Capa but for some reason (possibly financial) that didn't happen. In this one the challenger blundered a piece in one of the games! That's the sort of thing that happens at my level. So much for those who say that modern players are far superior to their predecessors. Carlsen himself is right up there though. |
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Post by tancred on Dec 10, 2021 22:21:48 GMT
tancred I'm assuming Robert Newark is now Robert. I'm afraid we have to assume that TOH is no longer with us as last he posted his condition was terminal. I am saddened and very sorry to hear about TOH. I completely disagreed with his views but I never wished him any harm. |
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 10, 2021 22:24:24 GMT
oh I was concerned about it, but I wondered what Colin or others might say, and was thinking some more about it in a wider context. Because it is part of the way some middle classes might stack the deck. Keep the working classes below while trying to eradicate privilege above them. And we have seen a lot of advantaging of the middle class in substantial ways, including the big ramping up of house prices, cuts to CGT etc., while the more working class get conditions eroded in big ways, the demise of full employment, ridiculous housing costs, and just get sticking plasters. - I'm curious though, do you think private tuition shouldn't be allowed as it cements middle class advantage or should be provided free or subsidised to those on low incomes or certain areas? That I could wholeheartedly support. Hell, private school teachers could be compelled to do it as part of their school's contract with the local area! Yes, that’s one possibility, to subsidise tuition for the less moneyed. In fact I’m not sure, but I think there’s some being funded now for catch up tuition following lockdown? I’d have to check with my partner. It’s possible that education may shift to more learning experiences being more generally provided by the best educators, which might ameliorate things a bit. |
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Post by tancred on Dec 10, 2021 22:25:35 GMT
I was reacting to tancred's onslaught today featuring xenophobic roc voters. Plus this little beauty :-"He will pretend to be kind to you while plunging the knife deeper in your back while you don't notice." describing Rishi Sunak. You might have missed Somerjohn today explaining that ROC voters haven't "the wit to read GE analysis and polling". So if you want me to take your desire for more civilised discussion here seriously, you will need to be more even handed in your sermons from the mount. Meantime expect me to respond to some of this stuff. Colin, if my memory serves Tancred got himself banned from UKPR1 because of such posting, and TBH I very rarely read his posts due to his obsession with Brexit. Also we are not the same 'team' - if I recall he is fairly anti-Labour where as I am pretty much dyed in the wool Labour loyalist (who had a wobbly moment prior to the 2017 election due to my opposition to Corbyn). I am not affiliated to any party. My background is moderate 'Heathite' Tory but that seems light years away from the modern conservatives, so the party closest to my views are the LibDems. I am not virulently anti-Labour, but from my perspective they still leave a lot to be desired as a political force. |
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Post by mercian on Dec 10, 2021 22:27:37 GMT
Before that, Theresa May understood the plight of the 'just about managing' and the 'left behinds', before making a total hash of everything, and before that, it was Cameron who was the new, transformational face of modern Conservatism, before initiating 10 years of pitiless austerity and the degradation of the social sector that we are all still suffering from. So yes, carry on. Raise the new standard, the clean skin who will be the next Tory champion. The one you can all flock round and promise will be the True Messiah to lead us from this desert, just like the last three. One day, even you might wake up to see the pattern." Is the pattern that they all win elections? |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 10, 2021 22:28:12 GMT
c-a-r-f-r-e-w - I can't disagree with a word you say. What can be done about the demise of full employment, ridiculous housing costs etc I honestly don't know (build many more houses I suppose but that gets overruled by mainly Tory nimbys). I think it's not a problem we could solve on our own as a country unless we went for some kind of command economy autarky. A large part of the world is facing the same issues or much worse but Brexit or vague allusions to levelling up by a chancer are not even going to touch the sides. politicians have a habit of trying to lock in their schemes to make them hard to fix later. Ramp up house prices and you create a cadre of voters who may resist its undoing. Then if they keep those lower down in a precarious existence, they won’t as likely vote to protect themselves. full employment involves the government doing more if what it used to do and creating good jobs. But these days, this can fall foul of trade regs, a way the globalists try and lock stuff in, and a reason why some on the left have issues with trade deals. the state used to build more housing, of course, instead of stoking house prices, but yes there might be resistance. Neil A, who was worried about this, used to suggest more high density housing in less NIMBY locations. Regarding Boris, some people focus on his flakiness quotient, and fair enough, but flaketastic Starmer, who rows back on his pledges, and piles into the left in his party, is given a free pass. I agree with most of what you say though i don't see how the government is really in a position these days to 'create' good jobs in sufficient numbers. In the past when full, secure working class jobs were abundant it wasn't to my mind because of anything the government was doing but just the nature of the economy in the developed world at the time here and in other countries as well. In building lots of new social housing they used to be spacious, with large gardens not high density. I would happily sacrifice much of this 'green and pleasant land' to that end. I've always enjoyed your posts but been intrigued as to where your political home is as for the most part you sound like a Corbynite but you're willing to defend Johnson and his party though you must know their commitment to working class people (whatever that means these days) is paper deep and can be forgotten in an instance and I also seem to recall that you read that great defender of economic redistribution the Telegraph! |
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Post by tancred on Dec 10, 2021 22:28:47 GMT
Another poll showing a pathetic two point improvement for Labour. I wonder how long Starmer has until he is unseated. |
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Post by davwel on Dec 10, 2021 22:29:36 GMT
While I am on the board, can I pose a question to anybody who may have watched a good Channel 5 documentary last night on the Durrington Walls pits next to Stonehenge.
About 15 deep pits have recently been discovered in a broad circle, and must have needed much effort of our ancestors to construct. Within or near the circle is a henge roughly 300 m in diameter - I had a look at it from NLS overheads during the boring advert breaks. The purpose of the pits is unknown, and the programme ended with some unconvincing suggestions, like it was a last flourish of the Stonehenge constructors.
My suggestion is that these were pits to keep food cool, using ice collected in winter from the nearby river. Workers and visitors/celebrators would need some feeding. In recent Scottish docs we have seen big ice-houses like one at the estuary of the Spey. If even Scottish estates felt the need, then in the warmer climate of Southern England in Neolithic times, there must have a great need for refrigeration.
Another very implausible suggestion came about the pigs slaughtered to feed the many visitors and constructors. Some pigs were thought to have come from Scotland, from tooth chemical composition.
The programme rightly (IMHO) took the view that Stonehenge was one of the greatest built achievements of the Neolithic era in the world, and there is still much to learn on how it was organised.
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Post by alec on Dec 10, 2021 22:36:17 GMT
steve - "While the media and some politicians here are treating the omicron variant as the end of days. Daily case numbers have ceased to increase and death rates are lower than last week in South Africa." Really? That's not the data I'm seeing. The 7 day moving average of conformed cases in SA rose from 332 on 16th Nov to 13,327 on Dec 8th, with 22,391 confirmed cases reported on Dec 9th. The rate of increase is much steeper than in any previous wave, and the latest R number is 2.55, higher than any previous covid wave. Test positivity rates remain close to 30%. There is some evidence emerging that Omicron is less severe than Delta, with a lower proportion of cases ending up in hospital, and those admitted having generally less severe symptoms, but caution is needed here. The Om wave in SA has up to now been heavily focused on younger age cohorts, but is now transferring to older age groups, so the more benign admissions and deaths data must be read in that context. But there appears to be absolutely no evidence that case rates are starting to fall in SA, and quite to the contrary, the data points to a continued dramatic surge. Data taken from Mia Malan of the Centre for Health Journalism, a Johannesburg based organisation.
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Post by tancred on Dec 10, 2021 22:37:35 GMT
I'm against xenophobia of any kind. But I don't like the dressing up of Brexit as something different from what it was. As far as I was concerned I voted Leave because I wanted to be able to help vote for or against whoever was in government - i.e. sovereignty. EU elections were just a fraud as the EU parliament did not have any powers. Others may have had other reasons, but to assume that all Leavers were xenophobic is wrong. There is a difference between hating a system of government and hating all other people in other countries suffering under that system. I am not saying all brexiters are xenophobic - as James O'Brien put it: not all leavers were racists but all racists are leavers. You are apparently a leftist brexiter and you have your reasons, which I understand, though completely disagree with. |
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Post by alec on Dec 10, 2021 22:40:27 GMT
@davewell - interesting.
My questions would be:
- Why have the pits in an arc. That seems more ceremonial, rather than functional.
- That's an awful lot of effort for a larder. These weren't large populations, and the scale of the pits suggests far more food was stored than could ever be consumed.
- Could it instead be a rudimentary early form of golf? These Neaderthals had big balls, you know.
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Post by jib on Dec 10, 2021 22:42:31 GMT
While I am on the board, can I pose a question to anybody who may have watched a good Channel 5 documentary last night on the Durrington Walls pits next to Stonehenge. About 15 deep pits have recently been discovered in a broad circle, and must have needed much effort of our ancestors to construct. Within or near the circle is a henge roughly 300 m in diameter - I had a look at it from NLS overheads during the boring advert breaks. The purpose of the pits is unknown, and the programme ended with some unconvincing suggestions, like it was a last flourish of the Stonehenge constructors. My suggestion is that these were pits to keep food cool, using ice collected in winter from the nearby river. Workers and visitors/celebrators would need some feeding. In recent Scottish docs we have seen big ice-houses like one at the estuary of the Spey. If even Scottish estates felt the need, then in the warmer climate of Southern England in Neolithic times, there must have a great need for refrigeration. Another very implausible suggestion came about the pigs slaughtered to feed the many visitors and constructors. Some pigs were thought to have come from Scotland, from tooth chemical composition. The programme rightly (IMHO) took the view that Stonehenge was one of the greatest built achievements of the Neolithic era in the world, and there is still much to learn on how it was organised. Ice was certainly collected in Victorian times and used in the "ice houses" that dot the grand Estate grounds. Global warming probably means such constructions would no longer function, but it is almost incredible to think these structures provided refrigeration into the summer months! |
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Post by mercian on Dec 10, 2021 22:59:54 GMT
While I am on the board, can I pose a question to anybody who may have watched a good Channel 5 documentary last night on the Durrington Walls pits next to Stonehenge. ... My suggestion is that these were pits to keep food cool, using ice collected in winter from the nearby river. Workers and visitors/celebrators would need some feeding. In recent Scottish docs we have seen big ice-houses like one at the estuary of the Spey. If even Scottish estates felt the need, then in the warmer climate of Southern England in Neolithic times, there must have a great need for refrigeration. ... The programme rightly (IMHO) took the view that Stonehenge was one of the greatest built achievements of the Neolithic era in the world, and there is still much to learn on how it was organised. I didn't know about the documentary, but am interested in that stuff, and you theory sounds very plausible. |
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Post by peterbell on Dec 10, 2021 23:04:21 GMT
COMRES makes 5 in a row with an average Lab lead of just under 6 and the Tories around 33%. With Opinium yet to come and they tend to favour Labour things are looking bleak for the Tories in the short term. As others have said over recent weeks, even without any further sleeze, corruption or lies stories, the government face problems with inflation, lack of GDP improvement etc. Rather things look bleak in the longer term.
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Post by mercian on Dec 10, 2021 23:06:56 GMT
Tancred
"You are apparently a leftist brexiter..."
I'm not sure of your definition of 'leftist'. If it helps to clarify your stereotyping I am in favour of the death penalty and reducing immigration (and hence need for more houses) to as low as possible. Qualified people that we need are welcome of course. I also think that people should make their own destiny as far as possible. The state can provide a safety net, but it should not be so generous as to be a lifestyle choice etc.
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Post by Mark on Dec 10, 2021 23:16:36 GMT
Westminster Voting Intention for the @dailymailuk
Via ComRes
Lab 39 (+2)
Con 33 (-5)
LDM 9 (=)
SNP 5 (+1)
Grn 4 (-1)
Other 9 (+2)
2,118 UK adults, 9-10 Dec (Changes from 3-5 Dec)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 23:24:56 GMT
It's not impossible Boris bounces back but IMO it feels like a lot of blood in the water and the sharks unlikely to stop until they've had their feed and got their man. As jimjam has mentioned at various times then a lot of 'bad' news and low 'feel good factor' is likely in the coming 6mths or so (eg inflation, NI hike actually hitting, etc) so I can't see Boris bouncing back but TBC of course - the futures is not set! Late 2022 would be better for a new leader to take over but risky to wait that long (IMO) and if Boris did recover a bit then harder to have the reason to get rid of him then (ie strike while the iron is hot). Perhaps he limps on until 2022 Local Elections, with the time lags (see next para) then might be 'handy'. Maybe he survives until GE'24, I wouldn't bet on that though. Maybe not a good analogy given his current polling but Covid and Trump's antics provided fortuitous timing for Biden in US. By the time Biden actually got the keys to the Oval Office then the vaccine programme was up and running so Biden got to shine in the success of that. Any CON leadership contest, assuming Boris limps into the New Year, might well drag out to the Spring (eg using May's downfall then she won the first[1] confidence vote in Dec'18 but Boris didn't take over until Jul'19 - quite a long lag between her being fatally wounded and new leader getting the keys to #10). Who knows what the situation with Covid will be in Spring, but going into Summer then it will likely be an improving situation. [1] History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. The 1yr provision is still in place so it is risky to move against Boris unless the letter writers are sure he'll lose and/or do the decent thing as May eventually did. That is also a reason why some CON MPs who maybe want to write a letter are waiting. If you get to 15% then a vote has to take place. Baker was perhaps over confident in the numbers back in Dec'18 but I'm not uncertain that a quite a few CON MPs have a letter drafted but don't want to accidentally trigger the 15% unless they are sure they can get 50%+ in the confidence vote and we're probably not at that point yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 23:35:07 GMT
Westminster Voting Intention for the @dailymailuk Via ComRes Lab 39 (+2) Con 33 (-5) LDM 9 (=) SNP 5 (+1) Grn 4 (-1) Other 9 (+2) 2,118 UK adults, 9-10 Dec (Changes from 3-5 Dec) That is now 5 polls with LAB 37-41% and a 4-8% lead over CON en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2021I haven't checked all of them but YG's one was similar to R&W with increase in CON'19 DKs and a few other bits+bobs to explain the changes. Of note then there hasn't bit much further rise in RUK VI (from CON'19), although I haven't seen ComRes breakdown of 'others' yet. On the other side then Greens have lost a bit of VI which looks like some LAB'19 that moved to Green VI moving back to LAB (quite likely as LAB are the best placed ABCON party in most seats). |
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Post by steve on Dec 10, 2021 23:38:41 GMT
Alec
Well you aren't looking at the data properly then case rate dropped 3000+ today from yesterday 20% up on this time last week and death rate is unchanged from last week despite a 400% increase in cases three weeks ago.
Weekly increase in cases dropped from 450% last week.to 180% now and is falling.
In addition data shows hospitalization at around a third of the levels seen at this point with the delta variant surge and deaths at around 20% despite double the case rate at the same point.
All with virtually no people with a booster jab which looks like providing 70%+ protection.
This is an on going situation but panicking about something that hasn't caused the South African authorities to change policies and where less than 20 people have died there with omicron in total isn't science based or proportionate.
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Post by jib on Dec 10, 2021 23:46:06 GMT
Alec Well you aren't looking at the data properly then case rate dropped 3000+ today from yesterday 20% up on this time last week and death rate is unchanged from last week despite a 400% increase in cases three weeks ago. Weekly increase in cases dropped from 450% last week.to 180% now and is falling. In addition data shows hospitalization at around a third of the levels seen at this point with the delta variant surge and deaths at around 20% despite double the case rate at the same point. All with virtually no people with a booster jab which looks like providing 70%+ protection. This is an on going situation but panicking about something that hasn't caused the South African authorities to change policies and where less than 20 people have died there with omicron in total isn't science based or proportionate. I believe that we all hope Omicron is the confirmation that COVID is becoming a weak virus. Let's hope so, but let's not underestimate what vaccination has done in terms of boosting general immunity. |
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Post by tancred on Dec 10, 2021 23:51:05 GMT
Tancred "You are apparently a leftist brexiter..." I'm not sure of your definition of 'leftist'. If it helps to clarify your stereotyping I am in favour of the death penalty and reducing immigration (and hence need for more houses) to as low as possible. Qualified people that we need are welcome of course. I also think that people should make their own destiny as far as possible. The state can provide a safety net, but it should not be so generous as to be a lifestyle choice etc. Oh, I thought you were a Labour supporter - maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else because you seem to be far Right. Immigration will never be reduced for the simple reason that jobs need to be filled, and if no one wants a given job then it needs to go to a qualified immigrant - simple as that. The reason Britain had minimal immigration in the decades prior to 1948 was because of high unemployment in the years after WW1 (1921 onwards) and also underemployment (i.e. overqualified people filling certain jobs). The great depression made a bad situation even worse. Your comment about people making their own destiny is all well and good so long as they are able to do so - many people are locked into a cycle of poverty due to circumstances beyond their control (e.g. disability). The current British welfare state provides a pitiful safety net - £75 a week of jobseeker's allowance hardly offers a 'lifestyle choice'! This is the lowest unemployment benefit of any OECD country, and our insulting state pension of £9,339 a year is also the lowest in the OECD. These figures are nothing less than disgraceful and yet nothing has been done about this for years and years, despite various government of one political persuasion or another. All this while the richest in society have kept getting richer and richer. |
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Post by tancred on Dec 10, 2021 23:56:51 GMT
COMRES makes 5 in a row with an average Lab lead of just under 6 and the Tories around 33%. With Opinium yet to come and they tend to favour Labour things are looking bleak for the Tories in the short term. As others have said over recent weeks, even without any further sleeze, corruption or lies stories, the government face problems with inflation, lack of GDP improvement etc. Rather things look bleak in the longer term. I don't think it's anywhere bleak enough for the Tories. If Labour was effective as an opposition it would be 10-15 points ahead of the Tories in every poll. People criticised Corbyn and some of that criticism may have been justified, but what does Starmer offer? What are his policies? He needs to spell out his vision for the country, not empty rhetoric. |
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Post by Mark on Dec 10, 2021 23:59:06 GMT
While as AW always said, it is impossible to tie a single event or policy to polling, however, it does seem like 'partygate' has moved the dial.
Of course, how permanent this is remains to be seen.
As for where the general public mood is, my own social media feed very much has the knives out for Johnson, but, that is nothing new - all of us live in a bubble at least to an extent on social media, including me.
So, to last night's Question Time on BBC1.
I was expecting an angry, baying audience and the tory panellist to get a real heckling.
That didn't happen.
One thing did occur to me, though, with the audience reaction. It reminded me of something. Reggie Perrin - the remake. (I bet none of you were expecting that, but, bear with me).
More specifically, one part of said remake.
Reggie is running "Groomtech" and is neglecting his wife, Nicola. This culminates in him working late and forgetting that he arranged to meet her for a romantic meal at a restaurant on her birthday.
He eventually turns up too late and profusely apologises. Nicola, angry and upset tells him not to worry and quietly leaves with him.
Speaking to his and Nicola's parents, Reggie tells them 'she was alright about it' and didn't make a fuss. They tell him that's the worst reaction he could have got. (Nicola, shortly after sleeps with the next door neighbour).
Nicola's reaction leaving the restaurant is exactly what last night's QT audience felt like.
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Post by mercian on Dec 11, 2021 0:11:00 GMT
Tancred "You are apparently a leftist brexiter..." I'm not sure of your definition of 'leftist'. If it helps to clarify your stereotyping I am in favour of the death penalty and reducing immigration (and hence need for more houses) to as low as possible. Qualified people that we need are welcome of course. I also think that people should make their own destiny as far as possible. The state can provide a safety net, but it should not be so generous as to be a lifestyle choice etc. Oh, I thought you were a Labour supporter - maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else because you seem to be far Right. Immigration will never be reduced for the simple reason that jobs need to be filled, and if no one wants a given job then it needs to go to a qualified immigrant - simple as that. The reason Britain had minimal immigration in the decades prior to 1948 was because of high unemployment in the years after WW1 (1921 onwards) and also underemployment (i.e. overqualified people filling certain jobs). The great depression made a bad situation even worse. Your comment about people making their own destiny is all well and good so long as they are able to do so - many people are locked into a cycle of poverty due to circumstances beyond their control (e.g. disability). The current British welfare state provides a pitiful safety net - £75 a week of jobseeker's allowance hardly offers a 'lifestyle choice'! This is the lowest unemployment benefit of any OECD country, and our insulting state pension of £9,339 a year is also the lowest in the OECD. These figures are nothing less than disgraceful and yet nothing has been done about this for years and years, despite various government of one political persuasion or another. All this while the richest in society have kept getting richer and richer. That's an interesting definition of 'far right'. Over 50% of UK population support the death penalty for some crimes. yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-the-death-penalty-be-reintroduced-for-terrorist-murder-actsAs for not working www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/economicinactivity/articles/despiterecordemploymentnearly10ofadultshaveneverdonepaidwork/2019-02-28We seem to agree about immigration which is good. But let's not try to classify each other into opposing tribes. There are some folks on here that I agree with more than others, but a civil discussion without labelling each other is beneficial to all. |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 11, 2021 0:27:13 GMT
For 15 years we lived in the same North Yorkshire village as the late David Nobbs, the writer of Reggie Perrin. He was a lovely man, often to be seen in a corner of the Hare & Hounds on a Tuesday evening playing dominoes. He contributed much to village life in many ways. As village hall chairman I persuaded him to do a turn at an event we entitled 'A Bit of a Do' in honour of the 1989 ITV series he wrote. David had the place in stitches as he recounted his career in comedy.
Another fine gentleman, sadly missed.
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Post by eor on Dec 11, 2021 0:28:08 GMT
On the Express coverage - it could be an early sign of conscious retreating from an increasingly untenable Brexit position... or it could be an early sign of slowly softening alignment as a result of them being owned by Trinity Mirror these days :-)
Likewise best not to overread the critical COVID coverage in the Telegraph - they've had a stable of writers hammering the government position on COVID for about as along as there's been COVID coverage, invariably prominent on the front page of the website to cater to the "outrageous restriction of our fundamental liberties" lot. At the same time they've also had people tasked with catering to the anxious/vulnerable with a steady stream of dismay that the government has never done enough to control COVID properly. Much like the Times on Brexit, they realise they have a split audience and have played to both sides throughout.
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