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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 19:02:05 GMT
Hah!!!!!!! TWO stars!!!!!!!!
My experience at primary school finally pays off.
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Post by davwel on Dec 20, 2021 20:08:50 GMT
I wonder if Bantams has a view on how many products of Bradford private schools change their accents in the way that Liz Truss has done.
I am hardly expecting her to pronouce the city as Bratferd, since that would confuse some who stay outwith Yorkshire. But LT`s accent now seems a hybrid mix of dialects ranging from Dorset, Hampshire and Essex.
I reckon she has done this to attract votes from as many as possible populous Southern England areas, just like she has changed the policies that she is keen on meantime so to win populist Tory votes.
It hardly bodes well for "levelling-up" that she wishes to dissociate herself from her home area, and hide her origin. But it`s very reminiscent of Thatcher`s betrayal of people in Lincolnshire and the Methodist church, preaching the total opposite of its teaching.
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Post by guymonde on Dec 20, 2021 20:18:59 GMT
Turk The people who mostly voted both stay or leave in 1975 are mostly deceased. Yes, I thought that when I read Turk's post. The maths say that you'd have to be at least the age I am now to have voted in the 1975 Referendum and I'm 65. When you think that turnout tends to be lower in the younger age categories, most of the people who cast their votes in the 1975 referendum, almost 50 years ago, must have passed away by now. I suppose the point to concede is that some of the people who voted to Leave the EU in 2016, and were of voting age in 1975, might have voted to remain in the EEC back then, but to make the statistical generality that Turk is making doesn't make sense. Anybody who was 40 or more in 1975 is very likely to be now dead. And, on that bombshell.......... I'm still alive and a two-time loser. Well, many more than two times overall but two times on the ECSC, Common Market, EEC, EU etc. Was for out in 1975 on the grounds of 'Rich man's club' Was for remain in 2016 on the grounds of 'it works' |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 20, 2021 20:19:54 GMT
@crofty - have you ever tried gin with your tectonics? No. What’s it like? Come to think of it I’ve never tried gin. What’s that like? One instinctively knows when to spot a sherry drinker. croftsherry.co.uk/about-croft/ |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 20, 2021 20:39:33 GMT
Right on cue. R&W best for building a strong economy Johnson 35%, Starmer 33%. Encouraging but need Sunak's numbers to drop; some posters are convinced they will but that might be wishful thinking. I believe the Tories enjoyed a lead on the economy even in 1997. While I lean towards JimJam's fairly orthodox view that the Party ahead on leadership and economic competence in the polls tends to go on to win the subsequent election, you raise an interesting point about whether orthodoxy is the equivalent of a universal truth. Although Labour lost in 2017, they amassed an extraordinary sized popular vote and increase in vote share whilst Corbyn and McDonnell were way behind May and Hammond on the economy and, in Corbyn's case, significantly behind May on Best PM ratings. What does this say? Well, nothing conclusive and the orthodoxy subscribers will point to Labour's defeat as further proof of their theory, but there might be something in Labour's performance in 2017 that points to other important voting determinants that could, in certain electoral circumstances, trump economic management and leadership. Factors such as the promise of investment in run down public services, a radical agenda on social justice, the plan for an overhaul of our politics and the renewal of our democratic institutions. Etc etc. Or a stage is reached when voters are so disillusioned with the incumbents and so yearning for a change that they are prepared to take a punt. Emotion over rationality. Dreamers over accountants. "Time kick the rascals out." say the majority. And out they jolly well go. All governing parties get there eventually. |
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bantams
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Post by bantams on Dec 20, 2021 20:41:28 GMT
I wonder if Bantams has a view on how many products of Bradford private schools change their accents in the way that Liz Truss has done. I am hardly expecting her to pronouce the city as Bratferd, since that would confuse some who stay outwith Yorkshire. But LT`s accent now seems a hybrid mix of dialects ranging from Dorset, Hampshire and Essex. I reckon she has done this to attract votes from as many as possible populous Southern England areas, just like she has changed the policies that she is keen on meantime so to win populist Tory votes. It hardly bodes well for "levelling-up" that she wishes to dissociate herself from her home area, and hide her origin. But it`s very reminiscent of Thatcher`s betrayal of people in Lincolnshire and the Methodist church, preaching the total opposite of its teaching. Get it right please, it's Bratfud! Apparently Delius still spoke with a Bratfud accent long after he moved to France. For Labour supporters Denis Healey went to Bradford Grammar as did David Milliband & Alistair Campbell, Barbara Castle went to the girl's school. Now you could argue the last two guys lost their accent. David Hockney certainly hasn't lost his. I actually had no idea Liz Truss had a Bratfud connection. |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 20, 2021 20:51:44 GMT
Is fear of death the reason you actually never vote? Seems a sensible precaution really. well the polling station’s in a bit of a rough neighbourhood |
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 20, 2021 20:53:06 GMT
Did you mean Virgilio? He was handy at stats too, IIRC. Virgilo was indeed the poster I was thinking about. Thank you. I used to look forward to his periodic reports on how the Latvian Green Party were faring!  I hope he's fit and well. No probs Crossbat. Who knows, maybe one day Virgilio and other polling maestros might find their way here? Roger Mexico for instance? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 20:59:47 GMT
"If anyone wants a really good laugh" Just read Alec's hysterical posts😂😂😂 In fairness Davwel takes some beating.😂 |
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bantams
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Post by bantams on Dec 20, 2021 21:05:09 GMT
I believe the Tories enjoyed a lead on the economy even in 1997. While I lean towards JimJam's fairly orthodox view that the Party ahead on leadership and economic competence in the polls tends to go on to win the subsequent election, you raise an interesting point about whether orthodoxy is the equivalent of a universal truth. Although Labour lost in 2017, they amassed an extraordinary sized popular vote and increase in vote share whilst Corbyn and McDonnell were way behind May and Hammond on the economy and, in Corbyn's case, significantly behind May on Best PM ratings. What does this say? Well, nothing conclusive and the orthodoxy subscribers will point to Labour's defeat as further proof of their theory, but there might be something in Labour's performance in 2017 that points to other important voting determinants that could, in certain electoral circumstances, trump economic management and leadership. Factors such as the promise of investment in run down public services, a radical agenda on social justice, the plan for an overhaul of our politics and the renewal of our democratic institutions. Etc etc. Or a stage is reached when voters are so disillusioned with the incumbents and so yearning for a change that they are prepared to take a punt. Emotion over rationality. Dreamers over accountants. "Time kick the rascals out." say the majority. And out they jolly well go. All governing parties get there eventually. We've just had some dreamer Bitcoin outfit sniffing around Bratfud City thinking of magically taking us to the Premiership. No dreamers thank you, it near always ends in tears & someone else to pay the bill left behind. "There's no money left!" |
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bantams
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Post by bantams on Dec 20, 2021 21:14:10 GMT
Interesting! Sajid Javid spreading his academic field of experts beyond Sage.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 21:18:37 GMT
No. What’s it like? Come to think of it I’ve never tried gin. What’s that like? One instinctively knows when to spot a sherry drinker. croftsherry.co.uk/about-croft/I can’t stand sherry. Don’t really drink at all now and have never smoked. When I was young I had the occasion rum and coke - like the Beatles in Hard Day’s Night. |
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Post by turk on Dec 20, 2021 21:19:40 GMT
Crossbat11
As in 2016 in the 1975 vote the majority for stay were the younger generation myself included.
In 2016 those that could have voted in 1975 were now the older generation who predominantly voted out. If you were 20 in 1975 you’d be 61 in 2016 . In 2016 there were around 15 million people 60 and over in the U.K. nearly 23% of the population.
Of course if you believe it wasn’t people over 60 who voted out I would draw your attention to the fact that over 65 were more than twice as likely to vote leave.and those over 60 a third more likely to vote leave.
So it’s a good assumption that millions who initially voted stay in 1975 voted leave all those years later along with those under 60 of course, enough I would argue to have made the difference in 2016.
On that bombshell I’ll leave it hanging as they say.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 21:20:46 GMT
Is fear of death the reason you actually never vote? Seems a sensible precaution really. well the polling station’s in a bit of a rough neighbourhood That’s true enough. It’s why I always take the girls with me when I go. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 21:24:39 GMT
Hah!!!!!!! TWO stars!!!!!!!! My experience at primary school finally pays off. I do take exception to “junior member” though. What’s Colin done to become a senior one FFS? |
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Post by somerjohn on Dec 20, 2021 21:37:39 GMT
Turk: As in 2016 in the 1975 vote the majority for stay were the younger generation myself included.You can lead a horse to water... As I said earlier: It might be a good idea for you to study the age breakdown of voting in the 1975 and 2016 referendums before repeating this statement.
Were you to do so, you would discover that the most eurosceptic age cohort in 1975 (those aged 18 to 29) were still the most eurosceptic in 2016 (by then aged at least 59- 70).In other words, you're not only flat-out wrong, but you seem to believe that repeating something that's demonstrably incorrect, after your error has been pointed out by several posters, will somehow get your message accepted. Take a look at the BES study of the 1975 referendum, if you don't believe that in 1975 it was the youngest voters who were most eurosceptic.Or for a short cut, see figure 1 in this article: blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/07/31/the-referendums-of-1975-and-2016-illustrate-the-continuity-and-change-in-british-euroscepticism/ |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 21:47:53 GMT
I believe Turk, who is in direct touch with local Conservative associations and knows what’s what.
Some people seem to think you can prove anything with facts but you can’t.
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Post by tancred on Dec 20, 2021 21:58:25 GMT
I am inclined to stretch that a bit to 45 or more in that there still appear to be many around who were born circa 1930. Relatively few now though from the 1920s. The majority of those who voted to stay in 1975 were those from the generation Americans call the 'silent generation' - those who fought in WW2 and/or Korea and didn't brag about it, hence the 'silent'. This generation is now dying away and few are left, mostly from the younger portion of the generation. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 20, 2021 22:13:12 GMT
bantamsMartin Luther King had a dream one day. I like dreamers. The world needs them. Visionaries they're sometimes called. It's usually the accountants who leave you with no money, not the dreamers!
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Post by tancred on Dec 20, 2021 22:15:27 GMT
Turk The people who mostly voted both stay or leave in 1975 are mostly deceased. Around 10% of those who voted Leave in 2016 are also now deceased - as are 5% of those who voted Remain. That still makes leave just ahead of remain. I guess that in five years' time the position will be reversed. |
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Post by somerjohn on Dec 20, 2021 22:22:56 GMT
Tancred: That still makes leave just ahead of remain.
If you're looking at the current position, you need to factor in not just the old folk who have dropped out of the electorate since 2016 (mostly leavers), but the young voters who have replaced them (mostly remainers/rejoiners).
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Post by js on Dec 20, 2021 22:33:09 GMT
Excellent article. While reading I could but contain my awe at the consistency of views from the Morning Star. Bastion of reasoning free from the shackles of logic and reality, oh what I would give for such clarity of thought! |
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Post by alec on Dec 20, 2021 22:37:32 GMT
The Times ran a lighthearted article over the weekend about 'data nerds' being the new heros of the pandemic, which featured a composite picture of 8 well known analysts who post their data observations on twitter. Typically, these were all white men, without a single women featured. I thought it might be a good time to post this link to a 2010 feature in the Guardian - www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/aug/13/florence-nightingale-graphicsIt was a woman - Florence Nightingale - who pretty much invented data analysis in healthcare, and she did it a hundred years before computers and laptops. She was the original data nerd. In popular mythology, Nightingale remains the 'Lady With the Lamp' who quietly moved around the hospital doing all the 'caring' things that women are apparently so good at, an image carefully crafted by the Victorians to ensure women understood what was expected of them and to bury the fact that Florence Nightingale led the male military and medical establishments of the day to a modern understanding of data and its scientific analysis. Today, that Victorian mindset remains alive and well in the Times, with their absent minded forgetting of all the great female scientists and communicators who have come through in the pandemic. Some of them are not even white. Isn't that incredible? |
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Post by tancred on Dec 20, 2021 22:42:00 GMT
Tancred: That still makes leave just ahead of remain.If you're looking at the current position, you need to factor in not just the old folk who have dropped out of the electorate since 2016 (mostly leavers), but the young voters who have replaced them (mostly remainers/rejoiners). Yes, though not all the new voters will be pro-remain/rejoin. I would say that by 2026 we will have a pro-EU majority - another factor is that maybe two million or more EU residents in 2016 who chose to stay in the UK will have been naturalised as UK citizens by then. The tide will definitely turn. That said, even if Labour win in 2024 they won't even touch the idea of another referendum in their first term, though possibly this could change if they win a second term. My guesstimate is that there will be another referendum in the early to mid '30s with Britain re-joining the EU after that. I hope I will still be around to see it. |
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Post by steamdrivenandy on Dec 20, 2021 22:56:11 GMT
Tancred: That still makes leave just ahead of remain.If you're looking at the current position, you need to factor in not just the old folk who have dropped out of the electorate since 2016 (mostly leavers), but the young voters who have replaced them (mostly remainers/rejoiners). Yes, though not all the new voters will be pro-remain/rejoin. I would say that by 2026 we will have a pro-EU majority - another factor is that maybe two million or more EU residents in 2016 who chose to stay in the UK will have been naturalised as UK citizens by then. The tide will definitely turn. That said, even if Labour win in 2024 they won't even touch the idea of another referendum in their first term, though possibly this could change if they win a second term. My guesstimate is that there will be another referendum in the early to mid '30s with Britain re-joining the EU after that. I hope I will still be around to see it. Don't forget it's not just those that have passed and those that have recently become entitled to vote, plus naturalised EU immigrants, but there are also quite a few who voted Leave and have changed their mind and TBF maybe some who've gone the other way. Not all referendum voters were committed zealots on, either side. Many folk have since confessed that their vote was done on the flip of a coin, the colour of Huw Edwards tie on the day, or whether they stood on a crack in the pavement. |
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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 20, 2021 23:07:27 GMT
Interesting! Sajid Javid spreading his academic field of experts beyond Sage. I reckon just as soon as that photo opp was done Javid switched the screen straight back to 3.30 race from Kempton. |
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bantams
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Post by bantams on Dec 20, 2021 23:17:24 GMT
bantams Martin Luther King had a dream one day. I like dreamers. The world needs them. Visionaries they're sometimes called. It's usually the accountants who leave you with no money, not the dreamers! I don't totally agree Batty. Some visionaries are just nuts and some accountants have no scruples. I don't like dreamers who would screw my club over given a chance. |
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bantams
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Post by bantams on Dec 20, 2021 23:22:25 GMT
Interesting! Sajid Javid spreading his academic field of experts beyond Sage. I reckon just as soon as that photo opp was done Javid switched the screen straight back to 3.30 race from Kempton. Must have been a very long race!  |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 20, 2021 23:22:50 GMT
In Campbell's covid roundup today he noted there are some 7500 people in hospital with covid, but only 200 or so have omicron. The implication of this is if omicron continues to create milder cases, then for the same total of cases, fewer will go to hospital. At the moment omicron is fast replacing delta in parts of the country, so if this continues then there is scope that even in a much bigger wave of omicon than the current delta one, there would still be fewer hospitalisations. In London currently, it is considered half the covid cases are not ill with covid, just happen to have it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdVymGK3OzM |
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Post by thexterminatingdalek on Dec 20, 2021 23:25:22 GMT
Hah!!!!!!! TWO stars!!!!!!!! My experience at primary school finally pays off. I do take exception to “junior member” though. What’s Colin done to become a senior one FFS? Two stars? Count yourself lucky. I think we get upgraded when we talk as much as Danny |
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