neilj
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Post by neilj on Nov 7, 2024 16:56:09 GMT
If it's a first offence and he's of previous good character it's likely to be a suspended sentence, community service and or a fine Of course because of his position the magistrates may want to make an example of him In Magistrates Court maximum sentence is 6 months |
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Post by colin on Nov 7, 2024 17:14:17 GMT
Governor Gavin Newsom of California responding to the election. "Vice President Kamala Harris set out to fight to defend our fundamental freedoms and build a country that works for everyone. Right there. The Democrat Problem. The Coastal Elite telling Working Class Middle America it lives in a country that works for everyone ! They just voted your government out because it doesn't you idiot ! |
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Post by colin on Nov 7, 2024 17:22:41 GMT
"UK interest rates could take longer to fall further after the Bank of England forecast that inflation will creep higher after last week's Budget.
The Bank cut interest rates to 4.75% from 5% in a move that had been widely expected.
But it indicated that while the extra spending outlined in the Budget would initially boost growth, measures such as raising the cap on bus fares and VAT on private school fees would push prices up at a faster rate.
Bank governor Andrew Bailey said rates were likely to "continue to fall gradually from here”, but cautioned they could not be cut "too quickly or by too much”.
BBC
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Post by leftieliberal on Nov 7, 2024 17:24:41 GMT
If it's a first offence and he's of previous good character it's likely to be a suspended sentence, community service and or a fine Of course because of his position the magistrates may want to make an example of him In Magistrates Court maximum sentence is 6 months I went back and checked the rules for a recall petition and it includes any custodial sentence, even suspended, so it's down to (assuming he is convicted) whether he gets a custodial sentence or not. I would imagine that Labour would not be too bothered about him remaining an MP as they could pick a new candidate for the next General Election, but a by-election is something they probably want to avoid. |
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Post by jib on Nov 7, 2024 17:32:36 GMT
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neilj
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Posts: 6,376
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Post by neilj on Nov 7, 2024 17:41:08 GMT
That plan has more holes than Swiss cheese, literally not worth the paper it's written on |
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Post by jib on Nov 7, 2024 17:54:59 GMT
That plan has more holes than Swiss cheese, literally not worth the paper it's written on It's a list if wishful thinking as things stand. Sure to be a signature policy for Trump though. I can see him there now at the peace accord, stage managed to make him look good. |
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neilj
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Posts: 6,376
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Post by neilj on Nov 7, 2024 17:58:22 GMT
That plan has more holes than Swiss cheese, literally not worth the paper it's written on It's a list if wishful thinking as things stand. Sure to be a signature policy for Trump though. I can see him there now at the peace accord, stage managed to make him look good. Can't see Ukraine signing up to this surrender document |
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Post by richardstamper on Nov 7, 2024 20:07:41 GMT
The performance of UK plc is pretty much exactly what one would expect for an entity disproportionately led by well-coached mediocrities with an inflated sense of their abilities and competence, principally because their parents could afford the polishing and coaching to get them into the elite universities and with personal connections to give them easier access to key professions and opportunities. Making it more difficult for arrogant, self-regarding duffers to end up in positions of power and influence would be a good move, I'd have thought. Well then, what you need to do is attack the source of power of the ruling elite, which is their wealth. Education is not essential to continuation of an elite group. In fact it could be dangerous, because it allows social climbers with a bit of money an entry into the rulers world, lets their kids break into it. So I can see why those elites would prefer to abolish the sorts of schools where this might possibly happen. Got rid of most of the grammars long ago, which had increasingly been sending people from ordinary backgrounds into top spots. And wealth accretes through the generations so making it harder for the wealthy to get their offspring into elite universities and positions of influence is a good first step to doing what you suggest. VAT on buying that privilege is a good start. Next should be raising the entry grades to university for those who were not state educated; there is convincing research evidence that state-educated students out-perform privately educated students with the same A-level grades, so it would be good for the universities, and the country, to make it harder for the privately educated to get in to the best universities. Grammars being an engine of social mobility was always a myth; their intake was heavily skewed away from the poor and their heyday happened to coincide with a huge post-war boom in white collar jobs in industry and the expansion of the university and FE sector. It is highly likely that had the Butler Act established a comprehensive system the proportions of people from ordinary backgrounds getting "top spots" would have been even higher. |
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Post by jib on Nov 7, 2024 21:28:35 GMT
It's a list if wishful thinking as things stand. Sure to be a signature policy for Trump though. I can see him there now at the peace accord, stage managed to make him look good. Can't see Ukraine signing up to this surrender document Maybe not, but the tail doesn't wag the dog here. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 7, 2024 21:31:35 GMT
And wealth accretes through the generations so making it harder for the wealthy to get their offspring into elite universities and positions of influence is a good first step to doing what you suggest. You miss my point: they dont need good schools. The question is, if you abolish such schools would it actually make it harder for new people to break into the elite society, rather than causing existing members to drop out of it? Attacking private schools could be making it harder to break the elite. Especially since the measures will most affect those only marginally able to afford them. |
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Post by mark61 on Nov 7, 2024 21:36:52 GMT
Just google Sentencing Council Guidelines Common Assault, Remember an early Guilty plea attracts a discount of approx. 1/3 from the starting point factor in any aggravating or mitigating features and I reckon you will have a good idea! |
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Post by richardstamper on Nov 7, 2024 23:21:44 GMT
And wealth accretes through the generations so making it harder for the wealthy to get their offspring into elite universities and positions of influence is a good first step to doing what you suggest. You miss my point: they dont need good schools. The question is, if you abolish such schools would it actually make it harder for new people to break into the elite society, rather than causing existing members to drop out of it? Attacking private schools could be making it harder to break the elite. No, the point is that some of them do need good schools so that the wealthy dullards and time-wasters get a bigger piece of the pie. I have seen first hand at Oxford the public school mediocrities and the public school wastrels, occupying places at one of the world's best universities that could have been made better use of by state-educated students who would then have had a better chance of breaking into the elite. |
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Post by mercian on Nov 8, 2024 1:54:43 GMT
Oh well, if you are going to make a fuss about it …! Anyway, I was only trying to do you a favour. A few days ago you said you wanted to find something else to piss me off. Thought I would help you out and that you would be happy!! No pleasing some people!! Fair enough. Truce?  |
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Post by mercian on Nov 8, 2024 2:09:54 GMT
The Uk made a decision years ago not to tax the wealthy when they passed on that wealth to the next generation. Is that truly fair? Above we have some people seriously attacking private schools because they give an unfair advantage to the children of the rich. And yet its perfectly fine those rich can pass on all their wealth and position directly to those kids, whatever they achieved educationally. The education debate misses the point those kids dont even need an education, they are guaranteed to be wealthy anyway. I believe from some posts you have made in the past that you don't have progeny. I can assure you that those of us who do, want to give the most help they possibly can to their offspring, financially or in other ways. That said, it's fair game to strip the descendants of the Norman invaders of all their assets.  |
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Post by jib on Nov 8, 2024 7:02:52 GMT
You miss my point: they dont need good schools. The question is, if you abolish such schools would it actually make it harder for new people to break into the elite society, rather than causing existing members to drop out of it? Attacking private schools could be making it harder to break the elite. No, the point is that some of them do need good schools so that the wealthy dullards and time-wasters get a bigger piece of the pie. I have seen first hand at Oxford the public school mediocrities and the public school wastrels, occupying places at one of the world's best universities that could have been made better use of by state-educated students who would then have had a better chance of breaking into the elite. Oxford and Cambridge should be mandated to take In UK students in proportion to state / private educated pupil proportions, along with other Universities. |
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neilj
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Posts: 6,376
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Post by neilj on Nov 8, 2024 7:43:30 GMT
Paul Lewis from BBC Money Box, among other things, on the terrible news there is the possibility that Princess Anne's estate may have to pay inheritance tax (PS just in case anyone doesn't get it, he's being ironic) Perhaps we can have a whip round for them and other destitute people inheriting estates of £3m plus "Shock as £6m farm will be caught by new rules on inheritance tax on farms! But not for 15 years on average life expectancy so plenty of time to save up and bill can be paid over ten years Anne is not royal enough to be exempt unlike her brother and nephew" www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/princess-anne-gatcome-park-estate-labours-inheritance-tax-njlnndp6p |
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steve
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Posts: 12,633
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Post by steve on Nov 8, 2024 8:38:37 GMT
mark61 Common assault carries a maximum sentence of six months imprisonment so doesn't carry an automatic. disqualification .However in reality it's unlikely to attract a custodial sentence of any description unless there are exceptional circumstances. For the daft old numpty I suspect the major issue would be a parliamentary committee concluding that he's brought parliament into disrepute and suspending him for the requisite time (14 days plus) because of his criminal conviction ( if any) and that triggers a recall petition. They do not actually have to wait to see if prosecution follows charge before instigating parliamentary processes.
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Post by colin on Nov 8, 2024 8:40:07 GMT
BT, Sainsbury's, Persimmon, M&S, Morrisons & UK Hospitality all totting up their Budget costs and saying they will have to cut costs.
BoE says Budget pushes the date for meeting inflation target back. Markets think interest rate cuts will be slowed.
If payrolls are reduced to compensate for Reeves' employment taxes I suppose productivity will rise-though not in the Public Sector of course .
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Post by pete on Nov 8, 2024 8:47:43 GMT
Governor Gavin Newsom of California responding to the election. "Vice President Kamala Harris set out to fight to defend our fundamental freedoms and build a country that works for everyone. Right there. The Democrat Problem. The Coastal Elite telling Working Class Middle America it lives in a country that works for everyone ! They just voted your government out because it doesn't you idiot ! You're being way to hard here. For starters he did say 'build,' and he's hardly going to say "Vice President Kamala Harris set out to fight to give away our fundamental freedoms and destroy a country that works for everyone. It will be interesting seeing how Trumps tariffs impact and he's already made it obvious he's a climate change denier. Trump winning was the worst thing that could've happened to the world and America. Its not going to help our NHS either as he hates it and no doubt Farage and some of the pond life around him will conducting a plan to get American insurance companies into our lives and blame Labour (where there's money to be made). |
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Post by pete on Nov 8, 2024 8:49:21 GMT
mark61 Common assault carries a maximum sentence of six months imprisonment so doesn't carry an automatic. disqualification .However in reality it's unlikely to attract a custodial sentence of any description unless there are exceptional circumstances. For the daft old numpty I suspect the major issue would be a parliamentary committee concluding that he's brought parliament into disrepute and suspending him for the requisite time (14 days plus) because of his criminal conviction ( if any) and that triggers a recall petition. He's toast and unless his life was threatened rightfully so. |
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Post by pete on Nov 8, 2024 8:51:58 GMT
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Danny
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Posts: 10,355
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Post by Danny on Nov 8, 2024 8:56:19 GMT
Can't see Ukraine signing up to this surrender document Maybe not, but the tail doesn't wag the dog here. I think it already has. Had Russia conquered Ukraine to plan within a month, then the US would have wrung its hands but accepted the bonus of a spur to Europe expanding its military. But because Ukraine failed to lose, the Ukrainian tail managed to wag the US dog back and forth for years with no end in sight. Even Trump may be hard pressed to grab hold of something to stop being wagged. Americans do not want Ukraine to lose, and in promising to end the war Trump is implicitly bound to a good outcome for Ukraine. |
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Post by colin on Nov 8, 2024 8:59:45 GMT
Trump winning was the worst thing that could've happened to the world and America. The World will have to cope with it. " America" just decided that Harris was the worst thing that could happen to it. |
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Danny
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Posts: 10,355
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Post by Danny on Nov 8, 2024 9:06:24 GMT
You miss my point: they dont need good schools. The question is, if you abolish such schools would it actually make it harder for new people to break into the elite society, rather than causing existing members to drop out of it? Attacking private schools could be making it harder to break the elite. No, the point is that some of them do need good schools so that the wealthy dullards and time-wasters get a bigger piece of the pie. I have seen first hand at Oxford the public school mediocrities and the public school wastrels, occupying places at one of the world's best universities that could have been made better use of by state-educated students who would then have had a better chance of breaking into the elite. No, the point is the schools are a red herring. Educationalists who have researched this consistently claim the actual school you attend has only a small impact on life outcomes. Much more important is background (which of course also determines which school you go to, so its correlation not causation). So you may be as thick as a post, get terrible exam results and your grandfather will still get you a nice city job, or place in a law firm, or whatever. And if one of the kids is the thick one, well never mind theres plenty of money anyway, and the clever one can get the important jobs to retain control of whatever power base. Reminds me of the 'godfather films', where the sons were allocated to future roles best suiting their temperaments.
Grammars were similarly attacked for giving an unfair advantage to rich kids, but both they and the private schools are a genuine ladder for the minority of poor kids who are motivated or lucky enough to get there and use them to get into the elite. Hence the Wilson/Heathe/Thatcher era. Whereas we moved back to Johnson and his jolly student japes at the posh dining club. And all those conservative millionaire leaders.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Nov 8, 2024 9:11:49 GMT
there is also selection to consider - public schools have entrance exams and how well you do determines which schools you can apply for. State schools can have selection indirectly via catchment area. There are other factors: my school used to be in the top 10 nationally, but slid quite some way down the rankings after it decided to pursue international qualifications that they felt were better for the pupils, but which gave them far fewer points in the ranking system. (the school used to deliberately take the exams from the hardest exam board, as that could help with uni applications). The biggest influence on state school performance is intake. Those whose parents are largely educated, middle class reasonably affluent will perform better than those whose parents are unqualified, multigenerationally unemployed and relatively impoverished will perform less well. And there’s more than a few who’d like to keep it that way! there is also selection to consider - public schools have entrance exams and how well you do determines which schools you can apply for. State schools can have selection indirectly via catchment area. There are other factors: my school used to be in the top 10 nationally, but slid quite some way down the rankings after it decided to pursue international qualifications that they felt were better for the pupils, but which gave them far fewer points in the ranking system. (the school used to deliberately take the exams from the hardest exam board, as that could help with uni applications). Private schools tend to have a more homogeneous intake from the former, which when combined with the additional resources available plus the extra extracurricular activities parents pay for explains a lot of the performance disparities. That's not to say that poorer intake schools can't achieve great results but the level of resources and support needed is much greater than is generally available. Yes as you may know, I have been quite keen to point out the resource disparities at times. However, there are other factors. Partly selection - private schools have their own version of the eleven plus - the common entrance exam - taken aged 13 normally, which determines which private schools you can get into. They may also have you studying more, partly by setting more homework (and in particular, if you’re at boarding school, not allowing many competing distractions). There was also a longer school day, which didn’t finish till six pm, and lessons on Saturday mornings till lunch, and sport in the afternoon. Even at prep school aged 10, the teaching continued till just before 6 pm when you had High Tea. Of course, the impact of resources can vary. It may not be as critical for something like studying English literature, compared to something like science or Music Technology. Getting hold of resources for teaching Music Tech. was a key issue for me from day one. there is also selection to consider - public schools have entrance exams and how well you do determines which schools you can apply for. State schools can have selection indirectly via catchment area. There are other factors: my school used to be in the top 10 nationally, but slid quite some way down the rankings after it decided to pursue international qualifications that they felt were better for the pupils, but which gave them far fewer points in the ranking system. (the school used to deliberately take the exams from the hardest exam board, as that could help with uni applications). The London Challenge in the 2000s led and funded by the Blair government proved this with spectacular improvements in performance. But it cost a lot of money and expertise. But in general inequalities built into everyday lives and society are replicated in the academic performance of svhools and pupils and in their future finances and quality of life. The answer lies much earlier and much wider than superficial fiddling about with schools and exams. Yes, the London Challenge is an example of how it isn’t necessarily the case that you can’t raise performance significantly. Although if I recall, there was a question mark how much it was down to the teaching, and how much due to the impact of aspirant immigrants, pulling standards up? (If I recall correctly, you have mentioned how immigrants maybe be more aspirant in the past). |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 8, 2024 9:15:14 GMT
The Uk made a decision years ago not to tax the wealthy when they passed on that wealth to the next generation. Is that truly fair? Above we have some people seriously attacking private schools because they give an unfair advantage to the children of the rich. And yet its perfectly fine those rich can pass on all their wealth and position directly to those kids, whatever they achieved educationally. The education debate misses the point those kids dont even need an education, they are guaranteed to be wealthy anyway. I believe from some posts you have made in the past that you don't have progeny. I can assure you that those of us who do, want to give the most help they possibly can to their offspring, financially or in other ways. indeed, but the attack on private schools seems to be a declaration that this is unacceptable. Society has to decide whether it is happy to allow enormous wealth (and power) to lie in the hands of a few percent of the population, with no hope whatever for the majority to narrow the gap. I think you got a bit partisan there. Post WW2 we had a consensus of creating a land fit for heroes. Which basically meant more wealth for the common people. around Thatcher time, 1980 say, this process had clearly been reversed by the ruling class. The tory wets back then were the tail of those politicians believing in wealth redistribution. Neither party is serious about improving the lot of the poor. Both are therefore losing the poor's vote support, going to Farage here and Trump in the US, and various other leaders all over the world. These leaders may be labelled as right wing, but they are offering things like good jobs brought back home from China. If you look back, a good job and a cheap home was a massive part of what was offered post ww2. Now both are being denied by mainstream politicians. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Nov 8, 2024 9:17:25 GMT
No, the point is that some of them do need good schools so that the wealthy dullards and time-wasters get a bigger piece of the pie. I have seen first hand at Oxford the public school mediocrities and the public school wastrels, occupying places at one of the world's best universities that could have been made better use of by state-educated students who would then have had a better chance of breaking into the elite. Oxford and Cambridge should be mandated to take In UK students in proportion to state / private educated pupil proportions, along with other Universities. They usually threaten to become wholly independant from the state system if too many rules are applied to them. And they could. Would you seriously threaten to close them down? How would you do that if they just carried on independantly? Tax them out of existence, but then what would you have achieved? |
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Danny
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Posts: 10,355
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Post by Danny on Nov 8, 2024 9:19:48 GMT
Paul Lewis from BBC Money Box, among other things, on the terrible news there is the possibility that Princess Anne's estate may have to pay inheritance tax (PS just in case anyone doesn't get it, he's being ironic) Perhaps we can have a whip round for them and other destitute people inheriting estates of £3m plus "Shock as £6m farm will be caught by new rules on inheritance tax on farms! But not for 15 years on average life expectancy so plenty of time to save up and bill can be paid over ten years Anne is not royal enough to be exempt unlike her brother and nephew" www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/princess-anne-gatcome-park-estate-labours-inheritance-tax-njlnndp6pHow can an intelligently staffed newspaper like the times not realise there is no reason for anyone to pay inheritance tax, they just have to give it all away to their kids 7 years before they die. The only explanation why they keep saying this seems to be they are trying to make a propaganda point, not inform the public. |
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Danny
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Posts: 10,355
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Post by Danny on Nov 8, 2024 9:21:47 GMT
BT, Sainsbury's, Persimmon, M&S, Morrisons & UK Hospitality all totting up their Budget costs and saying they will have to cut costs. BoE says Budget pushes the date for meeting inflation target back. Markets think interest rate cuts will be slowed. If payrolls are reduced to compensate for Reeves' employment taxes I suppose productivity will rise-though not in the Public Sector of course . In the public sector, payroll taxes make no difference, because the money just goes straight back to government to be reallocated. |
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