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Post by alec on Jul 1, 2024 12:43:14 GMT
barbara - I'm a bloke, but I know nothing about football. I do sometimes watch the games and analysis though, so I know what I'm talking about (obvs - I'm a bloke). So stand by for a bit of mansplaining. Your opinions on international football would be taken far more seriously if you sprinkled some key words across the analysis. But be careful - I've learned that these are heavily influenced by fashion. Up until quite recently, to be taken seriously as a half time pundit, you had to use the word 'wide' quite a lot. As in, 'they need to go wide', 'they're not stretching the defence out wide', 'if they use the wide balls this opens up space in the box' etc. This years word seems to be 'press'. As in 'England are hanging back - they need to press more', 'if you don't press you're gifting them space', 'Kane looks tired, where's the press?'. There are of course the perennial favourites with obligatory usage, like 'running into space', 'tempo' and any derivative of 'shape' ('losing shape at the back', 'look how they kept their shape' etc). And of course, to be taken seriously, you MUST at some point mention 'the back four'. So for example, where you write "When they seem to view possession alone as the main purpose of the match, the pace slows and they end up with endless passes baclwards towards their own goal while all standing still on the pitch" you should have said "when England drop the tempo the midfield lost their shape and weren't pressing, leaving the back four short of balls forward and no-one attacking the spaces'. You're absolutely right - it's complete bollocks and I've no idea what the f@ck it means, but at least they'll take you seriously. Am I right? @fecklessmiser - can we have a VAR on that?
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Post by graham on Jul 1, 2024 12:55:46 GMT
I am inclined to agree with Peter Kellner's prediction that the Tories will end up with 150 - 200 seats. Labour majority of 150.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 1, 2024 12:58:47 GMT
I read this the other day bud - genuine thanks for the thought though. Let's see how it pans out. I remember Rachel Reeves saying something along the lines of we haven't been doing what we've been doing to get into power and do nothing for people. I see a likely shadow cabinet that will have been far, far more likely to have had a state education, and therefore be more likely to be in touch with reality and every-day peoples' problems and concerns than those who they will replace. And I look at the likes of Angela Rayner and think that as someone who has come from not-having-a-lot, which is where I come from by the way, that like me in my work, she will work to improve the lot of all of those younger Angelas and Daves out there. I think that is her instinct and the instinct of most in the party that I will vote for. I fully realise that all of this may turn out to be a forlorn hope. I just feel in my bones that it won't. If a politician doesn't care about people and wants to fully maintain the status quo, then there are more suitable parties than Labour to join. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 1, 2024 13:29:47 GMT
And Hireton - if you see this, this is the kind of thing that I was referring to. I genuinely believe that Labour's hearts are in the right place and that they want to make a positive difference. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 1, 2024 13:35:38 GMT
Well perhaps this board has influenced me but I have watched all England's games so far and quite a lot of others as well ... I knew we'd win you over 😉 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 13:36:19 GMT
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Post by johntel on Jul 1, 2024 13:47:28 GMT
alec I've got a feeling that Labour will find a way to win the election. You make your own luck in this game.
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Post by shevii on Jul 1, 2024 13:57:12 GMT
Well perhaps this board has influenced me but I have watched all England's games so far and quite a lot of others as well and although I've never played football I used to be a county hockey player and have played lots of other sports so I'm going to leap in here. So this is a non-football person's view I admit. From what I've seen England seem to do better when they pick up the pace and pass FORWARD - even if on occasion they may lose possession. When they seem to view possession alone as the main purpose of the match, the pace slows and they end up with endless passes baclwards towards their own goal while all standing still on the pitch. This might provide them with a goodish length of time in possession of the ball but achieves nothing in terms of getting them any nearer to scoring. Yesterday they got their goals when they upped the pace and entered the melee of the box. Which is why the second half was so much better than the first. Watching Spain yesterday they seemed much more urgent, with every pass focussed on the end purpose of posititioning themselves for a shot at goal. Similarly with Georgia last week in their last group match - they simply went for everything hell for leather. And it served them well. Yesterday their only goal came from a breakaway which was brilliant but for the first half they mainly settled into heavy defensive node. Towards the end of the match I noticed that their numbers in the box defending were well down on the first half and in my opinion that allowed Spain to get those late goals. This might be twaddle but it makes complete sense to me! I'm no expert on top level football either and the modern game seems far more complex than 30 years ago, but I think one of the issues in judging this passing around at the back is you can't generally see what is going on up the other end on TV while this is going on. It may be that the defenders have no good passes to make because the midfield and attackers aren't finding space and making runs for them. It may also be that Southgate has told them the way to play and to wait until they see an opportunity to make a telling pass before releasing the ball, or it may be they are incapable of carrying out his instructions so we're not really to know. But they looked better when they were forced to take more "risks" and if they are only 50% as good as claimed then they should be willing to take the risks and be capable of getting the ball back if the risk doesn't come off- especially against teams who on paper they are better than. You mentioned Spain but I think even Slovakia in the first half seemed more willing to risk losing the ball in order to create chances. |
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Post by hireton on Jul 1, 2024 14:01:32 GMT
mark61 The partition and the establishment of the Irish Free State as a dominion outside the UK and subsequently the establishment of Ireland as a fully independent state in 1937 were all the result of Imnationalism, a force which you said you could not stand in any form. To try and create an equivalence between the causes and politics that led to the creation of the Irish state, and the position of Scotland today, is frankly historical gibberish. That's just my opinion from the other side of the Irish sea. I'm not creating an equivalence and didn't make any comparison. I was simply pointing out that mark61's statement that he cannot stand any form of nationalism would exclude events such as the creation of an independent Ireland and the reunification of Northern Ireland with Ireland. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 15:00:23 GMT
I thought barbara made excellent points re England footy team. Especially as I have been making the same points in chats with my chums. Surely, if the defence cannot play through “the press” (bloody hell, Slovakia were ruthless weren’t they?), the whole team is being pushed backwards and becoming ever more vulnerable to conceding a goal, then the answer is to take a pot-luck chance and play it long. Then there is time for England to push up and harass the opposition for a change and possibly keep possession and have an opportunity to attack the goal. I watched most of the first half aghast. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 15:01:09 GMT
To try and create an equivalence between the causes and politics that led to the creation of the Irish state, and the position of Scotland today, is frankly historical gibberish. That's just my opinion from the other side of the Irish sea. I'm not creating an equivalence and didn't make any comparison. I was simply pointing out that mark61 's statement that he cannot stand any form of nationalism would exclude events such as the creation of an independent Ireland and the reunification of Northern Ireland with Ireland. Well, well done you. 👏 |
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Post by mercian on Jul 1, 2024 15:06:22 GMT
By Friday morning, Britain could have its most state-educated cabinet in decades. The shadow cabinet heading into the general election is 77.5% state-educated, with seven out of 31 members having attended fee-paying schools. That is of course still three times the percentage of fee charging school members as the wider public.But a significant improvement. Improvement? How? Based on over performance in state examinations, privately educated kids get a better education. You are arguing its a bad thing those governing us got a better than average education? You miss the point. To those on the left it doesn't matter what works best. It's only ideological purity that's important. |
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Post by hireton on Jul 1, 2024 15:11:59 GMT
mark61 "I have never been a fan of Nationalism in any guise and don't welcome Nationalists trying to take the moral high ground." So you are opposed to Irish re-unification? There is a distinction between "State Nationalism" and "Self-Determinative Polities" As someone opposed to the former, and in support of the latter, I would welcome Northern Ireland's populace taking an informed decision to reunify. Economically speaking, NI would be better off fully integrated with Ireland's economy rather than the UK's. And while some of that would be return to EU participation, the vast bulk would be in no longer requiring costly and inefficient transfers and coordination over a sea. I agree. But beware the @everpopularcrofty will probably be along with a snarky comment for you any time soon for expressing an opinion on such matters. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Jul 1, 2024 15:12:41 GMT
JLP
NEW:
@restispolitics
June 28th - July 1st 2024
*Labour lead at 15 points*
Change on last week in brackets
LAB: 39% (-2)
CON: 24% (-1)
REF: 16% (+1)
LDEM: 10% (-1)
GRN: 5% (-)
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Post by alec on Jul 1, 2024 15:32:08 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 1, 2024 15:32:21 GMT
"US supreme court rules Trump has ‘absolute immunity’ for official acts
Court rules former presidents entitled to some degree of immunity from criminal prosecution"
The only way to prevent the christofascists and their cult leader totally undermining democracy and the rule of law is for the American electorate to vote Democrat up and down, so the incoming Democrat president ( who ever it is) can work with congress to dilute the malign influence of these corrupt judges by appointing additional members of the supreme court, time limit the posts and move selection and scrutiny to a panel of senior judges not on the court.
America is teetering on the edge of dictatorship.
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Post by mercian on Jul 1, 2024 15:33:22 GMT
Swiss beware next Saturday. The real England may just turn up. Ah yes the real England like the 1953 team that included Stanley Matthews, Stan Mortenson and Billy Wright that lost 6-3 at home to Hungary. |
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Post by alberto on Jul 1, 2024 15:33:46 GMT
Improvement? How? Based on over performance in state examinations, privately educated kids get a better education. You are arguing its a bad thing those governing us got a better than average education? You miss the point. To those on the left it doesn't matter what works best. It's only ideological purity that's important. It isn't about ideological purity, it's about fairness and empathy. Private provision of vital services creates a multi-tier system and detaches those in power from the consequences of their actions. Besides, how can anyone seriously look at the shambles we've suffered under successive private school educated leaders and believe this is as good as it gets. Those on the right only really like competition when the odds are stacked in their favour. |
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Post by barbara on Jul 1, 2024 15:34:42 GMT
Improvement? How? Based on over performance in state examinations, privately educated kids get a better education. You are arguing its a bad thing those governing us got a better than average education? You miss the point. To those on the left it doesn't matter what works best. It's only ideological purity that's important. And of course the brilliant Brexit deal we have was entirely because of the amazing negotiation team they sent to Brussels and nothing at all to do with the ideology of the ERG who drove the whole thing. |
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Jul 1, 2024 15:40:17 GMT
You miss the point. To those on the left it doesn't matter what works best. It's only ideological purity that's important. It isn't about ideological purity, it's about fairness and empathy. Private provision of vital services creates a multi-tier system and detaches those in power from the consequences of their actions. Besides, how can anyone seriously look at the shambles we've suffered under successive private school educated leaders and believe this is as good as it gets. Those on the right only really like competition when the odds are stacked in their favour. As alluded to earlier the problem is also one of a lack of self-awareness. Many of the privately educated appear to believe their own propaganda that they are unalloyed genuises. They have a lack of perspective and assume they are inevitably more capable than others which may sometimes be the case but is most often not so. |
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Post by mercian on Jul 1, 2024 15:43:00 GMT
I wonder who they'll vote for on Thursday? Labour presumably. |
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 1, 2024 15:44:04 GMT
I hear he is saving going over Niagara Falls in a barrel for the eve of poll. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 1, 2024 15:47:53 GMT
I think the point steve was making is that there is value in our government being representative of the people they are governing. For example, they may be able to appreciate and empathise better with the issues faced by the general public. I doubt sending them to state schools will change this. Firstly, they would still go to the best state schools, because even there buying power allows you to choose which school you house is in the catchment area for. Money buys a betetr education even in the state system. But secondly, if you look through the ancestry of MPs, you find its often a family business. Being an MP is still significantly a hereditary title. We do not have a system which in any way shape or form seeks to be representative of all types of people in the UK or to allow power into the hands of anyone not acceptable to the elite already holding that power. That being so, better they were well educated than badly. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 1, 2024 15:50:39 GMT
Researchers found if I remember correctly state school pupils with A* grade A-levels were likely to get better degrees than those from private schools with similar A-level grades But the private schools kids will get them from better respected universities than their innate ability merited. |
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Post by barbara on Jul 1, 2024 15:51:11 GMT
I don't recall a single Tory in 2019 bemoaning the fact that Boris Johnson gained a 'supermajority of 80 in 2019.
And even without a overall majority Johnson was still able to prorogue Parliament and expel a shed load of his own team.
And use his majority to try and subvert Parliament by persistent lying, and trying to change the rules to get his mate Owen Paterson off. And ignoring his Ethics Adviser over Pritti Patel's behaviour and then running for a year without an Ethics Adviser at all and so on..........
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,572
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 1, 2024 15:51:18 GMT
More in Common Wales Westminster Labour - 42% (+1) Conservatives - 22% (-14) Plaid Cymru - 9% (-1) Reform UK - 14% (NEW) Liberal Democrat - 4% (-2) The Green Party - 5% (+4) (+/- figures are differences from 2019 vote share results). Those are not so very different from the overall GB figures except for PC replacing LD. There was a time when Wales would have looked significantly different. |
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Post by mark61 on Jul 1, 2024 15:52:01 GMT
To try and create an equivalence between the causes and politics that led to the creation of the Irish state, and the position of Scotland today, is frankly historical gibberish. That's just my opinion from the other side of the Irish sea. I'm not creating an equivalence and didn't make any comparison. I was simply pointing out that mark61 's statement that he cannot stand any form of nationalism would exclude events such as the creation of an independent Ireland and the reunification of Northern Ireland with Ireland. You quoted me correctly the first time, but this time you Mis-quoted me, I thought I had clarified my position in my subsequent reply to you. Like joeboy, I too thought you were making an equivalence. I wonder sometimes if you remember having a vote on this issue in 2014 when the electorate said no thank you to independence. |
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Jul 1, 2024 15:55:44 GMT
domjg Back in the long distant past on my degree course at Bristol around 60% were from fee charging schools,only about 40% from state, mostly selective and just two people including me from comprehensives. Given that I came in the top two in the year and the other person was also state educated it's indicative. Maybe just of the time there was a concerted effort to be more inclusive. My A levels were good not brilliant. None of this seems to be disputing my point, that kids at private schools do better in learning stuff and passing exams than kids attending state schools. Private schools are just better at getting the kids to learn. But frankly this isnt just about boosting their grades, its also about learning to learn. Didn't you post before you went to a decent state school, better than the one your kids went to? It is almost as if a lot of the Privately educated wilt when finally faced with a level playing field, but not to worry they can fall back on the contacts and influence that is the added value purchased by Mum and Dads Money! Not really the point, is it, if they prove to be incompetent MPs after their education and background got them the job. The real question is whether people should be allowed to spend their money on getting a better education for their kids. If you dont think so, then logically you should also ban all private tutoring. And you should ban EHCPs, any sort of state funding for additional help learning which any children get. How is it fair that some state kids get more resources than others? Then there's the thorny question whether every child ought to have a voucher for a certain sum to spend on education, whcih they could hand to whichever state or private school they chose. Plus of course, what do we do about the unfairness to kids who end up in bad state schools as opposed to good state schools? |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 1, 2024 15:55:53 GMT
I am inclined to agree with Peter Kellner's prediction that the Tories will end up with 150 - 200 seats. Labour majority of 150. Judging by the recent tone of the Tory campaign and where they are sending their activists, I'm not sure even the Conservatives think that now. |
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Post by mercian on Jul 1, 2024 15:57:50 GMT
barbara"When they seem to view possession alone as the main purpose of the match, the pace slows and they end up with endless passes baclwards towards their own goal while all standing still on the pitch. This might provide them with a goodish length of time in possession of the ball but achieves nothing in terms of getting them any nearer to scoring. " Dead right. It felt as though they wasted at least 10 minutes passing the ball backwards and forwards between the goalie and defenders until eventually Pickford, having had the ball returned to him half a dozen times lost patience and hoofed it up the pitch. Still a win's a win I suppose. I just hope they don't think that it's going to be successful just because it's got them this far.
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