pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Feb 6, 2024 19:23:40 GMT
Liz Truss has announced that there are millions of Secret Conservatives in Britain, and that she supports the continued flights to Rwanda to remove the unwanted. I expect she thinks it explains the state of the polls. Add in the millions of secret Conservatives who aren't being counted (because they are hiding undercover) and the Tories are really 10 points ahead. |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Feb 6, 2024 19:33:39 GMT
“ 72% of Britons say it was unacceptable for Rishi Sunak to accept Piers Morgan's £1,000 bet on whether his government would be able to send some asylum seekers to Rwanda before the general election.” As always there is a near 30% core who don’t find it unacceptable. Must say I find it really weird as well though.  |
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oldnat
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Extremist - Undermining the UK state and its institutions
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Post by oldnat on Feb 6, 2024 20:01:09 GMT
Good advice for Sunak.
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Post by alec on Feb 6, 2024 20:12:43 GMT
Hang on jayblanc - "Liz Truss has announced that there are millions of Secret Conservatives in Britain, and that she supports the continued flights to Rwanda to remove the unwanted." Are we saying that Liz Truss is calling for millions of undercover Tories to be deported? Has she finally found a winning policy? |
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Post by jib on Feb 6, 2024 20:15:40 GMT
Hang on jayblanc - "Liz Truss has announced that there are millions of Secret Conservatives in Britain, and that she supports the continued flights to Rwanda to remove the unwanted." Are we saying that Liz Truss is calling for millions of undercover Tories to be deported? Has she finally found a winning policy? I think I know who they are. |
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Post by mark61 on Feb 6, 2024 20:23:05 GMT
Re. Carpet baggers, These Tories really are a Ghastly bunch, Kwarteng the latest to abandon ship expecting no doubt to wash up in a boardroom somewhere, Truss who surely if she had any self awareness would hide somewhere in a cave rather than pop up 18 months after winning the worst Prime Minister ever award to claim she represents an Army of secret Conservatives! I think it is about 55 Conservatives have announced so far they won't be standing again, Some will have genuine reasons but some will have read the room that they won't win and others have no stomach for serving their Constituents in opposition. The Labour Party have expelled Claudia Webbe who hangs on as an independent despite being convicted of an offence of harassment after a trial where her evidence was not believed, and former MP Simon Danczuk who when not deemed eligible to be a candidate is now trying to win his old seat back by standing for Ref UK, I just don't understand that as a Political journey, the Lib Dems or even the Conservatives but Ref UK! It would be like Colin joining The SWP! I can understand moving left or right to a degree but not 180 degrees. Sir Winston pulled the trick off twice but on points of Principle ( possibly with an eye to returning to high office ) but at time when both the Conservatives and the Liberals were unambiguously the Parties of the Establishment. Others who crossed the floor like Reg Prentiss not so memorable. Was it ever thus?, I know in the past the Conservatives had their rural backwoodsmen and Labour their rather uninspiring phalanx of Trade Union MPs, but I hang on to the hope that maybe they had a belief in Public Service, perhaps Graham with his elephantine memory can advise, I expect he knows what happened to Victor Grayson  . |
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Post by mercian on Feb 6, 2024 20:32:48 GMT
mark61It's ironic and appalling that the 'cash for honours' scandal of the 1920s is now the accepted norm 100 years later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2024 20:50:26 GMT
Hang on jayblanc - "Liz Truss has announced that there are millions of Secret Conservatives in Britain, and that she supports the continued flights to Rwanda to remove the unwanted." Are we saying that Liz Truss is calling for millions of undercover Tories to be deported? Has she finally found a winning policy? You’re a bit late with that joke. There should be a system of fines.  |
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Post by shevii on Feb 6, 2024 21:09:02 GMT
A reason to be worried about Trump winning:
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Post by mercian on Feb 6, 2024 23:08:58 GMT
shevii Biden is clearly in the not-so-early stages of dementia. The alternative is deranged. With some people Altzheimer's makes them very aggressive in my experience though I'm happy to be corrected by any of our many medical experts. If the US election ends up being between those two expect a big move from China whoever wins. They may be a little more cautious if Trump wins because he's so unpredictable.
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steve
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Post by steve on Feb 6, 2024 23:21:12 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2024 23:22:02 GMT
shevii Biden is clearly in the not-so-early stages of dementia. The alternative is deranged. With some people Altzheimer's makes them very aggressive in my experience though I'm happy to be corrected by any of our many medical experts. If the US election ends up being between those two expect a big move from China whoever wins. They may be a little more cautious if Trump wins because he's so unpredictable. I’m a medical expert (visit my GP regularly) and I can reassure that Joe is as fit as a fiddle. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Feb 6, 2024 23:32:59 GMT
The traitors defence of unlimited immunity from prosecution has been dismissed by the D.C. Circuit Court of appeal. The three judge decision with judges appointed under both democrat and republican presidents was unanimous. He's not a king and doesn't enjoy the absurd freedoms from criminal responsibility enjoyed by our hereditary head of state. The decision also gives the christofascist members of the United States Supreme court an out. Clearly they don't want to disagree with their insane appointer but now they don't have to. The D.C.Court is regarded as second only to the USSC they can simply refuse to take the case and let the decision stand. youtu.be/43YuqP3JPqA?si=Yy85iR47wwwr8DZ1 |
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Post by mercian on Feb 6, 2024 23:44:37 GMT
Yes, the main speech was quite impressive in an old man sort of way, though he faltered as soon as he started to answer questions (which he said he wasn't going to). He is already 81 though. 85/86 by the end of the next term. China used to be mocked as a gerontocracy. The US is one now. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Biden than Trump if it came down to it, because I think he'd be more amenable to taking advice, but I'd rather neither of them was standing. |
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Post by ptarmigan on Feb 7, 2024 0:15:42 GMT
Battso Surely the relevance of Sunak’s “bet” was his total lack of both moral principle being immediately to the fore and, failing that, his absolute of political judgement. Think how well he could have countered that offer by simply saying that it was both his hope and intention that flights should go ahead but that he didn’t think it was right to reduce the issue to a tawdry bet. He’s a duffer. Yes, very much this. There was an obvious response to the question and he fluffed it. I have to wonder what he was even doing on that show in the first place. No doubt hoping for a rare bit of good publicity from a sympathetic media outlet, but surely very much preaching to the converted on a channel with little reach. He should have been on his guard with someone like Morgan, a former tabloid editor who knows all the tricks of the trade, and yet he fell into an obvious trap. I'm really struggling to imagine another top political figure getting into a situation involving a frivolous bet (with a decidedly unfrivolous sum of money - not a good look for millionaires to be casually betting a grand) on a policy which will adversely affect people's lives. As well as being distasteful the whole episode demonstrates a real lack of political nous. |
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Post by ptarmigan on Feb 7, 2024 0:57:03 GMT
Not sure whether to laugh or cry at the "PopCons". On the one hand, they feel easy to dismiss. They don't seem particularly well organised as a group and no one's really buying what they're selling. Also, Liz Truss as the face of "popular Conservatism"... satire must be dead.
On the other hand, I feel really quite uneasy that a lot of the ideas and policies they're advocating now seem to be a proper feature of mainstream Conservatism in the UK and this will likely be even more true after the next election. Really hoping some of the very worst culprits lose their seats at the forthcoming election.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,590
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Post by pjw1961 on Feb 7, 2024 3:55:16 GMT
Not sure whether to laugh or cry at the "PopCons". On the one hand, they feel easy to dismiss. They don't seem particularly well organised as a group and no one's really buying what they're selling. Also, Liz Truss as the face of "popular Conservatism"... satire must be dead. On the other hand, I feel really quite uneasy that a lot of the ideas and policies they're advocating now seem to be a proper feature of mainstream Conservatism in the UK and this will likely be even more true after the next election. Really hoping some of the very worst culprits lose their seats at the forthcoming election. What is alarming is that increasingly science, facts, rationality and generally living in the actual world as it is, are being defined as liberal/elite/left-wing concepts, which can be dismissed and replaced with whatever fantasy you want to believe in. This was present yesterday in both the PopCon launch and Trump's latest rants. This is massively dangerous for the future of human civilisation, although good news for the secretive billionaires who fund these characters* since the resulting policies invariably include them carrying on getting fabulously rich. *Not a conspiracy theory, btw: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network |
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Post by moby on Feb 7, 2024 4:58:23 GMT
A point well made and should act as a note of caution to non medically qualified people and their 'dementia' narratives. |
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Post by moby on Feb 7, 2024 5:14:40 GMT
Not sure whether to laugh or cry at the "PopCons". On the one hand, they feel easy to dismiss. They don't seem particularly well organised as a group and no one's really buying what they're selling. Also, Liz Truss as the face of "popular Conservatism"... satire must be dead. On the other hand, I feel really quite uneasy that a lot of the ideas and policies they're advocating now seem to be a proper feature of mainstream Conservatism in the UK and this will likely be even more true after the next election. Really hoping some of the very worst culprits lose their seats at the forthcoming election. What is alarming is that increasingly science, facts, rationality and generally living in the actual world as it is, are being defined as liberal/elite/left-wing concepts, which can be dismissed and replaced with whatever fantasy you want to believe in. This was present yesterday in both the PopCon launch and Trump's latest rants. This is massively dangerous for the future of human civilisation, although good news for the secretive billionaires who fund these characters* since the resulting policies invariably include them carrying on getting fabulously rich. *Not a conspiracy theory, btw: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/06/rishi-sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-networkApparently neoliberalism was meant to save us from statist interventionist policies through promoting free trade and liberty but of course you only have to follow the money to see whose interests are really being served. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_family 'the Koch brothers were involved in the first known gathering of climate change skeptics in 1991 Organized by the Cato Institute, the meeting shifted the position of the Republican Party on climate change. While George H. W. Bush had still supported research into global warming under the Global Change Research Act of 1990, acceptance of scientific evidence on climate change began to weaken due to the Koch family's influence.' |
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neilj
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Posts: 6,457
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Post by neilj on Feb 7, 2024 5:29:29 GMT
A disturbing parallel...when Politicians attack the Judges and the Courts be afraid For the record he, and certainly I, are not saying Rees-Mogg is the same as Hitler, I'm saying he's using the same rhetoric as Hitler in relation to the courts |
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Danny
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Posts: 10,457
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Post by Danny on Feb 7, 2024 6:14:48 GMT
Re. Carpet baggers, These Tories really are a Ghastly bunch, Kwarteng the latest to abandon ship expecting no doubt to wash up in a boardroom somewhere, Its interesting there seems to be a trope being pushed that whats wrong with the conservative party is simply carpetbaggers. The party itself is fundamentally decent, its these horrible interlopers who are causing the problem, so if they leave at this election all will be well. Only the fundamental problem with the conservative party is they are anti redistribution and anti a big state providing services to citizens cheaply and effectively. They believe in preserving the wealth of the wealthy, and that is what they have done for 14 years, and did similarly under thatcher. If this is carpetbaggers, they are the most dedicated in history having spent a lifetime working for the same goals. |
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Danny
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Posts: 10,457
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Post by Danny on Feb 7, 2024 6:23:13 GMT
Sales of new electric vehicles to private buyers...falling, 15% down on the year. Fleet purchases up 30%
Obvious problem ahead since government has mandated companies must sell an increasing proportion of electric vehicles, only as things stand this is going to hit the buffer of customer resistance. Spokesperson said that while fleet purchasers are buying more, the reason is there are government subsidies available to them. (didnt explain what).
This however is against a background where the electricity for charging vehicles is coming from fossil fuelled power stations. So it isnt reducing CO2 emissions anyway.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Feb 7, 2024 6:40:25 GMT
Once again compensation for victims of government negligence are in the news.
Theres another story abour postmasters, where it seems the Scottish legal system rejected cases against some because there was inadequate evidence. So what the PO did instead was tell the people they would be prosecuted (despite knowing this had been rejected), taking out cases against them for recovery of debt instead, and persuading them to pay up so as to avoid the prosecutions which werent going to happen anyway.
meanwhile another story comes from a report by the government appointed ombudsman person into harm caused by the NHS using pelvic mesh implants and prescribing sodium valproate to pregnant women causing harm to their unborn babies. In both these cases too the government is recommended to pay immediate compensation, which of course the government has resisted for years.
Slightly different tack, but the government just announced an incentive scheme to encourage more dentists to treat more patients. General reaction to this is it still is too little, too late, with dentists arguing once their costs are taken into account, it simply isnt worthwhile practising in the NHS. Dentist interviewed says the service needs another billion pounds, and scrapping the contract where if you do lots of fillings on one patient you still get the same fee as just doing one. i seem to recall that in the past exactly the opposite issue applied, that dentists were accused of perfoming fillings on healthy teeth because, under this same contract, you get a much better return on doing just the one filling instead of no filings. The solution would seem to be to have dentists as employees on fixed wages and simply pay for their materials separately. The problem is in paying dentist on piecework terms as private contractors.
Another day with a drip drip of news stories why con are not fit to be in government. Another day undecided voters will not be coming home.
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Feb 7, 2024 7:02:29 GMT
incidentally-have you renewed your car insurance recently. My premiums just went up 68% ....Try getting a reason for it out of anyone . Just another thump from out the blue. Not out of the blue. Yesterday I heard a story about electric vehicles saying they are 30% more expensive to repair than traditional ones, because there just arent enough engineers (they said engineers rather than mechanics) trained to work on them. If thats the reason, then its likely getting worse as demand for them is increasing and likely applying to mechanics for conventional cars too. Hourly rates for mechanics are astronomical and while that is lumping in the fixed costs of the garage, its going up not down. I remember a few years ago a story from the local college about how they no longer had a sufficient budget to buy up to date cars (even as crash writeoffs) for their car mechanic students to work on, so they couldnt actually train them on maintaining modern cars. I also heard in general cost of spares is shooting up, all that inflation we have had working its way through, but spares probably isnt a very profitable part of car companies business, especially as modern cars last much longer so thay are having to hold parts no longer used in new vehicles. sure, there are companies specialising in old parts, but compared to parts for production vehicles its going to be disproportionately expensive. Also when I wondered quite why my own insurance had shot up, I noted from the internet the whole industry has acted the same. There could be an element of 'group think' here where they all see the need to push up prices to keep ahead of costs. And of course insurance companies nowadays tend to be businesses, not mutual organisations, so they dont have big cash assets built up which they could choose to use to smooth over market changes, rather they must return profits to shareholders every year. Its another little legacy of Thatcherism, destroying that class of charitable organisation providing insurance. |
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Feb 7, 2024 7:15:13 GMT
Harry Cole of the Sun saying it will be an October election. Could well be right, what I'm certain of is it won't be a May election www.thesun.co.uk/news/25767566/rishi-sunak-general-election-october-avoid-trump-clash/'RISHI Sunak is “moving away” from holding the election in November with October eyed instead, The Sun can reveal. Concerns over massive global insecurity triggered by the potential return of Donald Trump means going to the country before the US election is now more likely, insiders say.' |
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steve
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Post by steve on Feb 7, 2024 7:23:27 GMT
 Available soon in all good Poundland 's price 30p |
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steve
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Post by steve on Feb 7, 2024 7:24:16 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Feb 7, 2024 7:33:04 GMT
Ed Davey being interviewed, some more papers having been released about his interaction with Bates. Undermining his own credibility because the papers suggest he only eventually saw Bates because of advice it would be politically adviseable to speak to him, even though there was no reason to take action. PO advice it would be prohibitively expensive to investigate the functioning of Horizon.
Specifically, he is saying he was advised courts had found these people guilty, so they must have been proven guilty. Which then pushes back the problem to the PO having lied in those prosecutions. He argues no clear evidence was available that the PO was lying until BBC panorama broadcast a program in 2015 featuring a whistleblowing fujitsu employee. Its a credible answer, that it was the only evidence from the PO side that there could be a problem, which otherwise he says the PO was adamantly denying. However it avoids the point which was at the heart of the computing world story which had already been published, that the proof of the postmasters story was in that so many people were being accused of theft. Altogether somehwere between 10% and half of all postmasters, being accused of stealing money in a method no one could hope to get away with. Simply it disappearing from their tills in their own offices staffed by them. We dont know, it could be virtually every postmaster was being ordered to repay non existent losses. It beggars belief the PO itself could not have understood those figures are impossible. (although in 2010 this had already been happening for ten years, so its possible the PO simply believed every single postmaster was corrupt and it was just impossible to hire anyone honest, because they believed their own systems were infallable).
What this does illustrate is the dangers of 'arms length' control of government agencies. Either government needs to have an adversarial relationship with contractors where it holds them fully accountable, or it needs to properly manage them if they are actually state owned, which it utterly failed to do here. There has to be an argument for appointing auditors to inspect all companies carrying out contracts for the state akin to the schools inspection system. With full powers to investigate every aspect of their business. Government utterly failed to independently investigate what the PO was doing in its name.
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Post by alec on Feb 7, 2024 8:30:08 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Feb 7, 2024 8:35:12 GMT
I suspect the reason why the media focus on Davey is two fold
He's the only minister with responsibility in the 20+ years of the horizon scandal prepared to be interviewed, he was of course a minister for around 20 months of the 20+ years.
And
Because the media don't want to hold Tory or to a lesser extent Labour ministers to account and they wouldn't agree to an open question interview any way.
Whatever failings at the time and they primarily related to the post office lying, Davey does deserve some credit for being prepared to speak openly, he's the only minister who has and the only one to apologise.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain that all events both before and after were obviously 100% his responsibility.
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