|
|
Post by davem on Apr 23, 2024 8:25:15 GMT
On the Met Police , antisemitism row, I thought that this thread from a football chat website was interesting. A group of posters who are not know for their left wing views, a lot voted for and argued for Brexit, so probably the group that the media coverage has been targeted at. If this is the target audience, then they have missed it by a mile. www.not606.com/threads/openly-jewish-man-in-london.412361/page-4 |
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Apr 23, 2024 8:29:33 GMT
On the Met Police , antisemitism row, I thought that this thread from a football chat website was interesting. A group of posters who are not know for their left wing views, a lot voted for and argued for Brexit, so probably the group that the media coverage has been targeted at. If this is the target audience, then they have missed it by a mile. www.not606.com/threads/openly-jewish-man-in-london.412361/page-4"Football Firms for Common Sense." Now, there's a pressure group that might catch on. Headhunters and Inter City Firm go mainstream. 🤔🤣 |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 8:45:35 GMT
Nick Ferrari losing his shit over Huw Edwards getting paid £440,000 a year by the bbc.
Nick Ferrari is paid £78,000 A MONTH by Lbc
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 8:50:06 GMT
Natalie Bennett (Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle) in the House of Lords at midnight last night:
My Lords, I rise with a heavy heart, given the lack of further amendment, to this dreadful, international law-busting Bill. I note that in the other place, the SNP twice used procedural Motions to delay it by 15 minutes each time. I applaud them for that, and I am not going to take up the same length, but I am going to take a moment to mark this historic occasion.
Your Lordships’ House has put a lot of work into trying to make the Bill comply with international law, with basic moral laws and with the principles of justice and fairness. The noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, earlier today said:
“Its costs will be measured not only in money but in principles debased—disregard for our international commitments, avoiding statutory protections for the vulnerable, and the removal of judicial scrutiny”.
Nothing has changed in the Bill in the last few hours.
I note that Amnesty International this evening warned airline companies that many members of the public take an extremely negative view of the content of the policy. Those were really unnecessary words, because no company of any repute whatsoever is going to take part in implementing this dreadful policy. That is a measure of the Bill and the disgraceful, despicable actions it represents.
I am disappointed to see the almost empty Benches around me. I note that the Liberal Democrat Benches are here, having played their part in trying to stop the Bill at Second Reading, and I commend them for that action that the Green group supported. They are still here to the bitter end.
We heard from the Minister, we will hear tonight, and no doubt will keep hearing in the coming days that “Well, we’re the unelected House”. That does not mean that this House is without moral or legal responsibilities. I have asked the House a number of times: if not now, when? What will it take to make this House say, “Here we take a stand”?
We have had the abomination of the Elections Act, the elements of a policing Act that targeted Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people explicitly. We have had multiple indefensible restrictions on the right to protest. Now, we are letting through an attack on some of the most vulnerable, desperate people on this planet. What more will we let through? I suggest to noble Lords as they leave this Chamber tonight to ask themselves that question.
With a desperate, flailing government party bereft of ideas and philosophy and without principles, this House will keep being tested. I ask these empty Benches: you might be waiting for an election, but what kind of a country will it be if you do not stand up now?
I don't wish to be partisan but it was at the end of the day the labour party that caved on this the greens and my party opposed this disgrace until the end.
Labour supporters here might want to take a moment and consider what, if anything your party actually stands for, rather than just being an alternative to the current utterly inept morally bankrupt disgrace.
|
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 10,297
|
Post by Danny on Apr 23, 2024 9:35:20 GMT
The lords constantly refusing to stand up to the commons on matters of principle is a huge argument for its abolition or proper reform. Although it may be those taking part see this as a way to retain their jobs by not making a fuss and forcing change. Nice little retirement job if you can get it.
But apart from that, labour obviously believe their political advantage lies with passing the bill now. Thats not new policy, they have never seriously opposed any of the earlier rwanda bills. And for their part, its very likely con preferred the bills to succesively fail and be delayed, because otherwise we would have seen whether or not it actually worked to stop refugees years ago, and it would have ceased to be a live issue for the next election. (they have probably timed this so we will still be rowing about it at the time of the election)
|
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Apr 23, 2024 9:36:18 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by bardin1 on Apr 23, 2024 10:19:09 GMT
So Government borrowing £6.6bn higher than predicted, with a huge and a growing debt burden, services in desperate need of more money, substantial tax cuts are not going to happen to save the tories What's the betting they do it anyway. Under our system as I understand it you just need to leave a note for the incoming Chancellor. Convention is that the note should say ‘I’m afraid there is no money.’ , but this time I would suggest the more accurate "I'm afraid we have given all the money to our friends and family" |
|
|
|
Post by leftieliberal on Apr 23, 2024 10:41:59 GMT
But in terms of who is to be trusted you seem more than willing to trust someone who is a director of the organisation who produced that video attack on Sadiq Khan which in my humble opinion was blatantly Islamophobic. "Sadiq Khan's London" followed by various clips of Muslims appearing to behave badly (deprived of context) is very suggestive that he is letting things happen because he is a Muslim and this has been part of the racist Far Right campaign aimed at Khan simply because he is a Muslim and this "Muslims control London" ludicrous narrative. It's one that the Tories continue to nibble away at as well. I posted those links to give context to the police comments that, while unprofessional and borderline antisemitic, they clocked that this was an individual not simply going about his business but there to be confrontational and aiming to get a video out of it which is exactly what he achieved because people were gullible enough to take him at face value. The police were well aware he was not a random person who got caught up in the march and just wanted to cross the road. Identifying him in the way they did may have been wrong but they weren't wrong about his intentions. He's entitled to a counter protest but the police are also entitled, as they always do, to keep counter protesters separated from the other protesters. Now if the Muslim Council of Britain (who are the main representatives of Muslims in Britain) had attacked the original video as Islamophobic, then i would have taken your argument more seriously. As you chose to post the comment of an extremist fringe group which goes by a name that is confusingly similar to that group, I considered it necessary to make others aware of that fact. You only have to look at the reports of the Community Safety Trust to see that anti-semitic incidents in the UK have reached a new high, notably triggered by Hamas' attack and preceding the Israeli response in Gaza. |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 11:02:22 GMT
bardin1 The money won't be wasted Sunakered has already got his order in. 
|
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,120
|
Post by domjg on Apr 23, 2024 11:52:50 GMT
Corbyn in the Guardian appearing to suggest we should appease whatever Russia does because it has nuclear weapons. So glad he is now nowhere near front line politics. Maybe he, 'Moscow Marjorie' as she is apparently now being referred to in the US right wing press (the wider GOP seems to be finally recognising teh shift in public opinion on Ukraine) and the German AfD could start a support group of Putin's buds in the West.
|
|
|
|
Post by crossbat11 on Apr 23, 2024 12:12:29 GMT
Corbyn in the Guardian appearing to suggest we should appease whatever Russia does because it has nuclear weapons. So glad he is now nowhere near front line politics. Maybe he, 'Moscow Marjorie' as she is apparently now being referred to in the US right wing press (the wider GOP seems to be finally recognising teh shift in public opinion on Ukraine) and the German AfD could start a support group of Putin's buds in the West. I suspect Corbyn, if you engaged him in private conversation, would admit that he is both a pacifist and supporter of unilateral nuclear disarmament. He sits squarely in that Labour Left tradition. That's where he came from and where his politics were honed. It's a perfectly honourable position and set of beliefs, but Corbyn was strangely coy about them when running for the leadership and when Labour leader. He tended to fudge his position on both, probably because he sensed that if he was candid about what he truly believed then the views wouldn't pass muster with either Labour members or the electorate. Again, a reasonable political calculation from a personal career point of view, but not quite in keeping with the image of an honest and open politician, bucking the trend of opportunism and insincerity. Of course, if I'm wrong about this, then my obvious questions to Corbyn would be these. In what circumstances would military action ever be justifiable and would you ever countenance the use of nuclear weapons, let alone their existence? All this said, though, it's a bit academic. Corbyn is back in his natural metier now and nowhere near having to put any of his notions into action or reality. He's a free man again and unencumbered by the cares of office. |
|
|
|
Post by Rafwan on Apr 23, 2024 12:29:04 GMT
Corbyn in the Guardian appearing to suggest we should appease whatever Russia does because it has nuclear weapons. So glad he is now nowhere near front line politics. Maybe he, 'Moscow Marjorie' as she is apparently now being referred to in the US right wing press (the wider GOP seems to be finally recognising teh shift in public opinion on Ukraine) and the German AfD could start a support group of Putin's buds in the West. Dom, I have read Corbyn’s piece three times ( link) and I can find no reference at all to Putin, Russia or nuclear weapons. |
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,120
|
Post by domjg on Apr 23, 2024 13:07:03 GMT
Corbyn in the Guardian appearing to suggest we should appease whatever Russia does because it has nuclear weapons. So glad he is now nowhere near front line politics. Maybe he, 'Moscow Marjorie' as she is apparently now being referred to in the US right wing press (the wider GOP seems to be finally recognising teh shift in public opinion on Ukraine) and the German AfD could start a support group of Putin's buds in the West. Dom, I have read Corbyn’s piece three times ( link) and I can find no reference at all to Putin, Russia or nuclear weapons. He's talking mainly about Gaza I suppose but the implication with ref to the 1st world war and 'Sleepwalkers' at the start (and to honest I didn't read much further as I knew what he was getting at) is that we shouldn't react to another state's aggression against it's neighbour. The phrase "Clark refuses to pin the blame on a single power" tells you all you need to know about his attitude to Russia because that's what he's surreptitiously taking about. Regarding his comments on Gaza further on, I can't disagree with those but they are strangely disjointed from the first paragraph which is clearly if subtlely referring to our support for Ukraine against Russia. He's trying to link the two very different situations together, ie if you agree with not arming Israel, you should agree to not arming Ukraine. Very different situation, practically and morally. The US democrats, for example, would love Israel to stop it's war in Gaza but want to continue to support Ukraine's defence against Russia. There is no equivalence. |
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,352
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Apr 23, 2024 13:23:45 GMT
Corbyn has previously said we shouldn't arm Ukraine www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraineJeremy Corbyn has urged western countries to stop arming Ukraine... “Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” Corbyn said. “We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.” Seems to me not pouring arms in will allow Putin to win and go onto attack the next country he wants to invade/take over |
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,120
|
Post by domjg on Apr 23, 2024 13:29:44 GMT
Corbyn has previously said we shouldn't arm Ukraine www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraineJeremy Corbyn has urged western countries to stop arming Ukraine... “Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” Corbyn said. “We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.” Seems to me not pouring arms in will allow Putin to win and go onto attack the next country he wants to invade/take over Bingo. His is the same as the messed up attitude of some on the German left: 'If we're peaceful and unarmed, then everyone else will be too.' No, if you're unarmed and unwilling to show strength then predators like Putin will smell your fear and eat you for breakfast. |
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,120
|
Post by domjg on Apr 23, 2024 14:23:56 GMT
What people like Corbyn and some of the German left always remain coy about is elaborating how and why the war stops being 'prolonged' if we withdraw help from Ukraine. The unspoken (but perfectly well understood by them) answer is of course total Russian victory. A modern take on 'better red than dead'.
|
|
|
|
Post by wb61 on Apr 23, 2024 14:41:49 GMT
What people like Corbyn and some of the German left always remain coy about is elaborating how and why the war stops being 'prolonged' if we withdraw help from Ukraine. The unspoken (but perfectly well understood by them) answer is of course total Russian victory. A modern take on 'better red than dead'. Whilst I agree with you, nonetheless it made me think of this Pratchett quote from Night Watch " He held the flag like a banner of defiance. ‘You can take our lives but you’ll never take our freedom!’ he screamed. Carcer’s men looked at one another, puzzled by what sounded like the most badly thought-out war cry in the history of the universe." |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 15:08:12 GMT
Judge speech for you're having a giraffe in the trial within a trial regarding the traitors blatant multiple breaches of the gag order.
"Things are not going well for Donald Trump as his lawyer, Todd Blanche, continues to make the claim that re-posting doesn’t violate the gag order.
Judge Merchan said:
Mr Blanche you’re losing all credibility, I have to tell you right now … You’re losing all credibility"
|
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,352
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Apr 23, 2024 15:18:14 GMT
More unfunded promises from the tories
If this was Labour the media would be all over them
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 15:18:47 GMT
Rafwan I think this was the section that related to the situation in the Ukraine. "Hundreds of thousands of us continue to march because human beings continue to die – and we will be there once again in London on Saturday, for another National March for Palestine. We will be demonstrating for a ceasefire and for the only path to a just and lasting peace: the end to the occupation of Palestine. We are guided by hope, not hate. Our demonstrations are made up of people of all ages, faiths and backgrounds, united in a desire to end human suffering. And we are part of a wider movement that wants to see an end to all wars: in Ukraine, Yemen, Sudan, West Papua, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and elsewhere. Many of us have spent our entire lives defending human rights for everyone, everywhere, often in the face of great opposition. Our critics know this. What they really oppose is our desire to build a more equal, sustainable and peaceful world for all." Mr Corbyn seems to think that if we protest peacefully and be nice to our neighbours then they will reciprocate.Which might be ok if you've an argument over the state of the garden hedge. But tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who have died ,been injured,tortured,kidnapped and had their homes destroyed by the regime in a neighbouring country that they never displayed any aggression to before they were the victims of an unprovoked attack. He should stick to being a drain cover enthusiast
|
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 15:30:02 GMT
Sunakered Calls for defence to be put on a " war footing " and reach 2.5%of GDP. It might be surprising therefore to know that despite the blatant and obvious aggression of war criminal Putin since 2014 that the last time it was 2.5% was under Labour in 2010 the current expenditure is in fact 7% lower than then. Almost as if the Tories haven't been fulfilling their primary role of government to protect the interests of the country. Hardly surprising that the regime that cut us off from our partners in the European union and imposed trade sanctions on itself would be equally fucking useless when it comes to physical defence. Here's the actual figures for military expenditure.  |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 15:43:57 GMT
Brexitanian celebrates St George's day  |
|
domjg
Member
Posts: 5,120
|
Post by domjg on Apr 23, 2024 15:53:05 GMT
What people like Corbyn and some of the German left always remain coy about is elaborating how and why the war stops being 'prolonged' if we withdraw help from Ukraine. The unspoken (but perfectly well understood by them) answer is of course total Russian victory. A modern take on 'better red than dead'. Whilst I agree with you, nonetheless it made me think of this Pratchett quote from Night Watch " He held the flag like a banner of defiance. ‘You can take our lives but you’ll never take our freedom!’ he screamed. Carcer’s men looked at one another, puzzled by what sounded like the most badly thought-out war cry in the history of the universe." I thought that was patented by Mel Gibson in the highly subtle and nuanced Braveheart |
|
neilj
Member
Posts: 6,352
Member is Online
|
Post by neilj on Apr 23, 2024 15:56:15 GMT
|
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,565
|
Post by pjw1961 on Apr 23, 2024 16:10:16 GMT
What's pretty wild is that Kennedy's polling is all over the shop - 2-3% with some pollsters, 13-15% with others, and still some in between getting consistently high single-digits. That feels way past the difference that merely prompting can make, the house effects here are something else entirely. Polling samples not designed to be representative for a random outside contender. Pollsters don't select and adjust samples on the basis of voting intention - that's what they are trying to find out! Their samples are designed to represent in miniature the whole population. A sufficiently large sample should indeed pick up the level of support for outside contenders, subject to a margin of error depending on sample size. |
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 10,297
|
Post by Danny on Apr 23, 2024 16:12:45 GMT
]What's the betting they do it anyway. Under our system as I understand it you just need to leave a note for the incoming Chancellor. I saw a newspaper headline the other day 'tories intend to limit benefit entitlement to 1 year'. I dont see how that is practical, but if you announced it, I dare say in theory it would knock a few billion off future bills. Enough to justify some extra tax cuts. Pretty much the plan seems to be just to giveaway money (to tory voters) and leave the problem for the next government. |
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 10,297
|
Post by Danny on Apr 23, 2024 16:17:19 GMT
Jeremy Corbyn has urged western countries to stop arming Ukraine... “Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” If we do so half heartedly as we have been, he is absolutely right the only outcome will be a slow win for Russia anyway. |
|
pjw1961
Member
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,565
|
Post by pjw1961 on Apr 23, 2024 16:23:53 GMT
Judge speech for you're having a giraffe in the trial within a trial regarding the traitors blatant multiple breaches of the gag order. "Things are not going well for Donald Trump as his lawyer, Todd Blanche, continues to make the claim that re-posting doesn’t violate the gag order. Judge Merchan said: Mr Blanche you’re losing all credibility, I have to tell you right now … You’re losing all credibility" The latest witness is called David Pecker - you couldn't make this up. |
|
Danny
Member
Posts: 10,297
|
Post by Danny on Apr 23, 2024 16:24:09 GMT
More unfunded promises from the tories If this was Labour the media would be all over them Probably in this opposite case, the way to do it is continue unclear on the funding, which only has to last until after the election. In the campaign you can say you will do his, and challenge labour to match the promise. So then it becomes their promise how to spend more on armed forces, a traditional tory policy likely to win votes for tories, without raising taxes or borrowing. Like as not con then demand lab explain how they would fund it, without ever having explained themselves. Close some hospitals? |
|
steve
Member
Posts: 12,605
|
Post by steve on Apr 23, 2024 16:25:51 GMT
My party position on the Rwanda disgrace.
"The Liberal Democrats have always opposed this unworkable, immoral and extortionately expensive scheme.
It betrays the UK’s proud tradition of providing sanctuary to refugees fleeing war and persecution.
It’s wasted millions of taxpayers’ money already, despite no flights taking off.
And it will do nothing to stop dangerous Channel crossings or combat people smuggling and human trafficking.
A boy in a crowd of other asylum seekers, wearing a backpack with a teddy bear's head poking out the top.
We’ve worked tirelessly to block the Bill at every step.
Our efforts in the Lords led to key amendments that significantly delayed its passage and tried to improve the Bill, however much we could.
While the Bill will now become law, our fight continues.
Instead of wasting millions on a policy which will never work, the government should be focusing on tackling the asylum backlog and creating safe and legal routes for refugees.
Liberal Democrats have a clear plan to do just that, which we passed at last year’s Spring Conference.
The Rwanda scheme doesn’t solve anything - we need to push for real solutions. If Rishi Sunak and the Conservatives can’t get a grip, they need to call an election now!
The Rwanda scheme is a colossal failure, no matter how much the Conservatives spin it.
We must continue to push for safe, legal routes which stop the dangerous Channel crossings while treating asylum seekers with dignity."
It's nice to be on the right side of basic morality.
|
|
