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Post by shevii on Apr 21, 2024 20:43:53 GMT
Yep, it was about as close as it gets: a goal disallowed by the slimmest of margins, right at the end of extra time. Still, Wembley twice in two years ain’t so bad… I'm afraid I'm a bit stuck in the 1970's to be able to understand the modern game but is there really a good reason for being offside if any part of your main body or legs is a milimeter ahead of the defender? Rules is rules and it was offside by the laws but would it not improve the game if the attacker was given a bit of an advantage and it worked the other way with any part of the defender level meaning the attacker was onside?
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Post by jib on Apr 21, 2024 20:52:53 GMT
Mark Menzies has resigned from thee Conservative Party and says he won’t stand at the next election In the meantime he will be an independent MP That just saves them having to investigate and explain what really happened. He carries on in post until the election avoiding an embarassing by election. They're a pretty sorry bunch now. Can they hold it together until November? - I have my doubts and the knives will be out for Sunak if they lose badly next month, either way the GE will be on us in a flash now. Should have formed the Pretorian Guard around the blonde one (Johnson, not Truss)!
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Post by leftieliberal on Apr 21, 2024 20:58:40 GMT
Yes, we were denied at the death, as you were in the last round. It does add to the excitement A great effort from the Sky Blues at Wembley, by the sound of it. I say by the sound of it because I was at the Villa v Bournemouth* game at the same time so saw none of it. We did follow the scoreline and the last we knew before we left the stadium was that United were leading 3-0. Accordingly, we'd sort of given it up and were discussing how disappointing an afternoon it must have been for the Cov hordes at Wembley. However, when we'd walked about 20 minutes, and were approaching our car, someone walking alongside us, his eyes focused on his smartphone,let out a loud exclamation; "Bloody hell, Coventry have just equalised in the 95th minute. A penalty!" He showed us the scoreline on his phone as evidence after we'd expressed doubt about the news he was imparting. We thought it a likely wind up at first. We were wrong. So, with the radio on during our 40 minute drive homewards, we listened to the entire dramatic extra time and the first few penalties of the shoot out. We parked up quickly outside my mate's house (I was dropping him off and had a further 25 minute drive to my home), and rushed into his house, switched the TV on and watched the climax of the shootout. It didn't go well from a Cov point of view, alas, as we now all know. Still, a noble effort, and I hope Callum O'Hare, the former Villa player who was the first person to miss his penalty for Cov, doesn't get too much stick for his former club associations. He did get a goal in normal time, remember. *Villa 3 Bournemouth 1 - goals from Morgan Rogers, Moussa Diaby and Leon Bailey. I was watching the semi-final on TV and thought if the ref had not given Cov a penalty in stoppage time, VAR would not have overturned it either. It was one of those where the man on the spot was best-placed to make the decision. I've seen penalties like that both given and not given. All in all a great game for the neutral and one which either side could have won within the 90 minutes. One question; I think Onana already had a yellow card for time-wasting and did he get one in the penalty shoot-out? If so, will he miss the FA Cup Final like Martinez will miss the first game of the semi-finals in the Europa Conference league?
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 21, 2024 21:22:46 GMT
Yep, it was about as close as it gets: a goal disallowed by the slimmest of margins, right at the end of extra time. Still, Wembley twice in two years ain’t so bad… I'm afraid I'm a bit stuck in the 1970's to be able to understand the modern game but is there really a good reason for being offside if any part of your main body or legs is a milimeter ahead of the defender? Rules is rules and it was offside by the laws but would it not improve the game if the attacker was given a bit of an advantage and it worked the other way with any part of the defender level meaning the attacker was onside? VAR was supposed to correct "clear and obvious errors" in the on field decision. These 'offside by a finger-tip' ones are not "clear and obvious errors". I would keep goal line technology and scrap the rest, but that won't happen.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 21, 2024 21:31:29 GMT
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Post by mercian on Apr 21, 2024 21:56:16 GMT
A reminder that in 2015, UKIP received 12.6% of the vote share. UKIP then collapsed to 1.8% the following election. Protest voters are fickle. That was because the sole purpose of UKIP was to leave the EU. It was thought that that had been achieved, even though it took a few more years. UKIP still exists but it seems a bit pointless now, like the SDP and Liberals (not LibDems) who I think also limp on. EDIT: I see that oldnat and c-a-r-f-r-e-w made much the same point.
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Post by crossbat11 on Apr 21, 2024 21:59:22 GMT
The irony of the disallowed Coventry "winning goal", was that had the game been played in a previous round of the competition, and at Coventry City's ground, then the goal would have stood because VAR wouldn't have been in operation.
I think it's an utter nonsense that FA Cup games have variable officiating regimes in place. VAR's use and application is wholly dependent on whether the tie is taking place on a Premier League ground or at Wembley. In my view, if it can't be used everywhere in the competition it shouldn't be used anywhere.
This is a different argument to the one about how VAR is being applied during games. It's an argument about the integrity of a competition and the even application of refereeing arrangements as the competition progresses to its conclusion.
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Post by mercian on Apr 21, 2024 22:23:22 GMT
There are times when I despair of anyone fixing the Met as anti-semitism rears its ugly head again. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/met-police-antisemitism-apology-jewish-b2531719.htmlThe antisemitism campaigner involved in the incident was Gideon Falter, chief executive of the Campaign Against Antisemitism, who was wearing a kippah skullcap when he was stopped from crossing the road near the demonstration in the Aldwych area of London on the afternoon of Saturday 13 April. A video clip posted by the organisation showed one police officer saying to him: “You are quite openly Jewish, this is a pro-Palestinian march. I’m not accusing you of anything but I’m worried about the reaction to your presence.” Metropolitan Police assistant commissioner Matt Twist had said earlier on Friday: “The fact that those who do this often film themselves while doing so suggests they must know that their presence is provocative, that they’re inviting a response and that they’re increasing the likelihood of an altercation.”Do the Met Police really think that being "openly Jewish" is provocative. It all reminds me of the Battle of Cable Street in 1936 when the Met Police were there to support Moseley's fascists in their desire to march through the, then, heavily Jewish East End. There was a discussion about this on Radio 5 tonight. One of the callers made the point that if he was wearing a Manchester City scarf and a large group of Manchester United fans were passing, it would be prudent to wait a few minutes until they'd gone past. Just common sense. The chap in this incident was wearing a Jewish little skullcap thing (I can't be arsed to look up what it's called) and wanted to cross the road through a pro-Palestinian march. Although the march was peaceful as far as I know I can understand why the police didn't want to risk anything kicking off, and were obviously concerned for the man's safety if he carried out his intention. IMO he deliberately provoked the confrontation with the police. All he'd have had to do would be to put his little hat in his pocket for a few minutes. Jews aren't that obvious from facial features alone when we have so many races in the country.
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Post by eor on Apr 21, 2024 22:38:18 GMT
I'm afraid I'm a bit stuck in the 1970's to be able to understand the modern game but is there really a good reason for being offside if any part of your main body or legs is a milimeter ahead of the defender? Rules is rules and it was offside by the laws but would it not improve the game if the attacker was given a bit of an advantage and it worked the other way with any part of the defender level meaning the attacker was onside? VAR was supposed to correct "clear and obvious errors" in the on field decision. These 'offside by a finger-tip' ones are not "clear and obvious errors". I would keep goal line technology and scrap the rest, but that won't happen. I was likewise a fan of "goal-line only" in football a few years ago - it's a binary and near-immediate decision needing no subjectivity, the ball is either fully over the line or it isn't. The problem with the other stuff is that, as many other sports have found when the TV deals have got more lucrative and the broadcasters have invested in the technology, if the viewers can be shown in near-real time that a key decision is mistaken then it becomes a credibility issue, especially for more casual fans that broadcasters are trying to draw in. I quite like the buffer zone they have in cricket of "Umpire's Call", so the overturned decisions seem to be more about whether the umpire has misread the flight of the ball, missed/misheard a contact etc, rather than superceding their judgement entirely by trying to make a more precise decision than a person could reasonably be expected to. And the pendulum feels like it has swung back a bit in rugby in the last season or two, with more stress on "my decision is Try, based on x, y and z; please check if I'm right about y" rather than the more generic requests for adjudication that had got quite common. Maybe elements of both could improve the process in football?
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Post by mercian on Apr 21, 2024 22:40:48 GMT
If you want to make party political points about this, it should be noted that a significant number of SNP members don't share your outlook on social issues - it seems around 50% are socially conservative based on the last leadership election. I should imagine a good proportion of SNP voters are quite socially conservative too, albeit I've never thought that social or cultural views are defining issues in terms of political persuasion. It seems to me that quite radical and progressive attitudes on inequality, the role of the state, taxation etc can, and often do, coexist with socially conservative beliefs. One of the problems of left wing politics in my view has been the obsession with thinking that radicalism is defined by liberal social attitudes. Plenty of quite right wing voters and politicians possess liberal social attitudes and many voters who opt for left wing parties have quite conservative views about some social and cultural issues. I see no inherent contradiction in that. There was a time when most Roman Catholics in the UK voted Labour and while I think the link between religious faiths and voting habits is much looser now, and the influence of organised religion far less, I've always thought that it's a mistake to think that the social and cultural attitudes belong on a political spectrum. The definition of positions on political spectrum are much more about attitudes towards the way a society is organised economically in my view. Ironically, getting back to the SNP, I would have thought that the attitude someone has towards Scottish independence has little to do with their views on civil partnerships, transgender rights, marriage etc. It's also worth remembering that most surveys have shown a steadily liberal drift on these issues amongst voters, members and politicians of all political parties. www.survation.com/british-muslims-retain-strong-link-to-labour-but-leadership-ratings-lag-those-of-the-party/This is relatively recent and shows that 72% of Muslims support Labour. I couldn't find the survey I was looking for that showed breakdown of voting intention for all religions but I think the Muslim vote was the strongest for a particular party. I agree that social and cultural attitudes should be independent of politics but I have said before that I see a clash coming in the Labour party in particular between the extremely socially conservative views of some Muslim voters (subjugation of women most notably) and the socially liberal policies of the party. I can see Labour soft-pedalling the socially liberal stuff so as not to alienate a big chunk of their voters.
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Post by mercian on Apr 21, 2024 23:01:52 GMT
Don't most people holidaying in the UK stay in hotels, boarding houses, holiday chalets, caravans, holiday camps, camping and so on? How does that affect the housing stock? I know Airbnb is a growing phenomenon but I doubt if it's very significant (yet) compared to these other things.
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Post by graham on Apr 21, 2024 23:35:54 GMT
A reminder that in 2015, UKIP received 12.6% of the vote share. UKIP then collapsed to 1.8% the following election. Protest voters are fickle. That was because the sole purpose of UKIP was to leave the EU. It was thought that that had been achieved, even though it took a few more years. UKIP still exists but it seems a bit pointless now, like the SDP and Liberals (not LibDems) who I think also limp on. EDIT: I see that oldnat and c-a-r-f-r-e-w made much the same point. In truth a lot of UKIP support in 2015 came from people who otherwise would have turned to the LDs. By entering the Coalition the LDs effectively lost their former position as the NOTA option - and remain a long way from reclaiming it. Many voters had paid little attention to the detailed policy content of the LDs, and simply saw the party as an alternative to the two larger parties.
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Post by expatr on Apr 21, 2024 23:54:25 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 22, 2024 5:19:18 GMT
Which is consistent with their other finding, that only 20% were able to explain what a culture war is. Take that whichever way you like, they simply dont understand what they are on about or if it was explained to them they would leap on the bandwagon. In general they suggest voters are interested in practical issues like more money for the NHS. That is of course a problem for the conservatives, who have just spent 14 years reducing the NHS budget compared to rising demand from greater numbers of older people. And reducing every other budget they could. Can quite see why they want to steer the debate onto something else, because their core policy is now a vote loser. (whereas back in 2010 it had some credibility after lab had spent 13 years largely restoring cuts made by the Thatcher/Major administration). Con core policy cannot work without periods of labour rule to reverse it so they can impose it again. As at present it just becomes ridiculous with services collapsing.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Apr 22, 2024 5:22:42 GMT
Found this interesting, Trump's polling lead relies on those who don't vote. Among those who do vote Biden has a very clear lead...
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 22, 2024 5:26:08 GMT
Jews aren't that obvious from facial features alone when we have so many races in the country. Since jews and palestinians have been interbreeding for thousands of years, what I have read suggests the two sides Jews and moslems from palestine look pretty much identical. In this particular case he might look british of course and so stand out?
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Apr 22, 2024 5:53:59 GMT
In truth a lot of UKIP support in 2015 came from people who otherwise would have turned to the LDs. By entering the Coalition the LDs effectively lost their former position as the NOTA option - and remain a long way from reclaiming it. Many voters had paid little attention to the detailed policy content of the LDs, and simply saw the party as an alternative to the two larger parties. Some of the polling above about refuk supporters suggests this is true, but I do not recall suggestions from the time that people were voting UKIP as a general protest vote. However, comparing the results in 2010 and 2015 the lib vote fell dramatically in 2015 losing 15% share of the total vote, but lab and con didnt much change. Lab vote in fact rose slightly compared to con by 0.8%, but only about 1.5% extra in total compared to 0.7% for con. Therefore most of the lib vote went somewhere else. Of course, there could have been churn, libs defecting to con and con defecting to UKIP. UKIP was indeed the big winner at +9.5%. In the past I have thought of this as pretty much a vote for brexit, despite con offering the referendum which was actually the way to achieve brexit. So whether or not UKIPpers were all motivated by brexit, it would seem some just didnt like the conservative party. There was an argument a lot of people voted leave as a protest vote against how both con and lab had been running the country. Which would be consistent with having voted UKIP. You could argue UKIP was the safe protest vote, in that it was not likely to actually elect any MPs, just send a message. Only it may be they sent the wrong message that they wanted brexit when they didnt.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 22, 2024 6:19:59 GMT
sheviiJust came across this picture of Los cristianos circa 1960. Thought you might be interested included one from now as a comparison.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 22, 2024 6:21:35 GMT
Breaking news.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 22, 2024 6:32:32 GMT
shevii And here's playa de las Americas in 1972
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Post by moby on Apr 22, 2024 6:53:01 GMT
There are times when I despair of anyone fixing the Met as anti-semitism rears its ugly head again. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/met-police-antisemitism-apology-jewish-b2531719.htmlThe antisemitism campaigner involved in the incident was Gideon Falter, chief executive of the Campaign Against Antisemitism, who was wearing a kippah skullcap when he was stopped from crossing the road near the demonstration in the Aldwych area of London on the afternoon of Saturday 13 April. A video clip posted by the organisation showed one police officer saying to him: “You are quite openly Jewish, this is a pro-Palestinian march. I’m not accusing you of anything but I’m worried about the reaction to your presence.” Metropolitan Police assistant commissioner Matt Twist had said earlier on Friday: “The fact that those who do this often film themselves while doing so suggests they must know that their presence is provocative, that they’re inviting a response and that they’re increasing the likelihood of an altercation.”Do the Met Police really think that being "openly Jewish" is provocative. It all reminds me of the Battle of Cable Street in 1936 when the Met Police were there to support Moseley's fascists in their desire to march through the, then, heavily Jewish East End. There was a discussion about this on Radio 5 tonight. One of the callers made the point that if he was wearing a Manchester City scarf and a large group of Manchester United fans were passing, it would be prudent to wait a few minutes until they'd gone past. Just common sense. The chap in this incident was wearing a Jewish little skullcap thing (I can't be arsed to look up what it's called) and wanted to cross the road through a pro-Palestinian march. Although the march was peaceful as far as I know I can understand why the police didn't want to risk anything kicking off, and were obviously concerned for the man's safety if he carried out his intention. IMO he deliberately provoked the confrontation with the police. All he'd have had to do would be to put his little hat in his pocket for a few minutes. Jews aren't that obvious from facial features alone when we have so many races in the country. Braverman was just challenged on this on the Today programme. The argument over competing 'rights' being filmed in a volatile situation. I feel for the police here. Not an easy job at all. dorseteye.com/openly-jewish-controversy-has-now-taken-on-a-whole-new-context-as-full-video-released/
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 22, 2024 6:57:32 GMT
Found this interesting, Trump's polling lead relies on those who don't vote. Among those who do vote Biden has a very clear lead... So to borrow Willie Whitelaw's phrase, Biden needs to tour the US "stirring up apathy".
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Apr 22, 2024 7:03:49 GMT
More on the US Presidential Election, Kennedy will take more votes from Trump than Biden, 15% to 7%. May appear counter intuitive as Kennedy is notionally a Democrat, but his propagation of conspiracy theories, such as the election was rigged, mass shootings are linked to prescription drugs, covid was designed to attack certain races etc tends to appeal more to Trump supporters
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Post by mark61 on Apr 22, 2024 7:32:20 GMT
I wonder if Mr Falter would have tried to cross the road through the march if the Police weren't there to protect him if anything went wrong, seems like sensible public order policing, after all they would have to risk injury themselves sorting it out.
I can't ever remember taking my friends along to film me crossing a road, maybe he had a point he wanted to prove.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 22, 2024 7:41:37 GMT
Don't most people holidaying in the UK stay in hotels, boarding houses, holiday chalets, caravans, holiday camps, camping and so on? How does that affect the housing stock? I know Airbnb is a growing phenomenon but I doubt if it's very significant (yet) compared to these other things. You're not aware of the huge number of homes that have been converted to short term holiday lets in places like Cornwall and the West Wales coast? I once got thoroughly lost on the winding backroads between Carmarthen and Cardigan with no phone signal and no map. I was searching for a house to ask the way and every single one I came upon turned out to be an empty holiday let.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 22, 2024 7:45:26 GMT
mark61Indeed while the police sergeants language was clumsy and he needs words of advice , but they were actually trying to do their job of ensuring safety and not causing unnecessary disruption. But the conservative friends of Israel want to make a mountain out of it of course.
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steve
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Post by steve on Apr 22, 2024 7:51:09 GMT
domjgThat's of course true the original comment referred to demonstrations along the same lines in the canaries. As I pointed out the accommodation in the tourist resorts was built as tourist accommodation and the situation is different. If you envisaged a similar pattern of residency in the UK as Tenerife over 40 million people would live in greater London and the largest other town would have a population under 100,000.
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Post by davem on Apr 22, 2024 7:59:02 GMT
So tens days campaigning left before the local elections.
What are posters from here seeing on the ground where they live?
Here we are finding that the Tory promises on the doorstep are splitting into four camps, those flipping to Labour, those looking at Reform, those still voting Tory and a significant number not enthused and will probably not vote.
The Labour vote from last year is holding with a very small number going to Reform, but no sign of any moving to the Tories. They also seem to be more motivated to turn out.
One area where Labour are seeing voters move away is in the vote for the North East Mayor. The Independent candidate, formally Labour Mayor for the North of Tyne, appears to be taking votes from Labour, with reports that a number of Labour supporters are splitting their votes, Labour for the council and PCC elections but Independent for the Mayor. That might be one to watch, sadly I can not find any polling to se how significant shift might be.
For Sunderland, my council, the Tories won 8 seats last time these seats were up (out of 25), last year they only won 3, so you would expect at least 5 loses, 4 to Labour ( including my ward, where the Tory who won has joined Reform and is also running for Mayor) and 1 to the Lib Dem’s.
The other three seats are all vulnerable to Labour, especially if Reform take more than 5% of the vote.
The one Lib Dem defence against Labour could be interesting. The Lib Dem’s won the seat from Labour three years ago, but lost the last two elections, last year by only 13 votes. However they may have shot themselves in the foot by putting out a leaflet to postal voters claiming that the Labour candidate had been found guilty in court for fly tipping. He had never even been charged. Labour responded within 24 hours with their own letter to all of the postal voters correcting this misinformation and inform them that the Lib Dem candidate and agent had been reported to the police. This mistake by the Lib Dem’s may well cost them the Hendon seat.
Other Lib Dem seats should be safe, however the announce of the major TV and movie studio development in Pallion, along with Lib Dem councillors in that ward having crossed the floor , one to join Labour, could see an interesting result in the Pallion seat.
Any thoughts about where you live?
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Apr 22, 2024 8:01:56 GMT
More on the US Presidential Election, Kennedy will take more votes from Trump than Biden, 15% to 7%. May appear counter intuitive as Kennedy is notionally a Democrat, but his propagation of conspiracy theories, such as the election was rigged, mass shootings are linked to prescription drugs, covid was designed to attack certain races etc tends to appeal more to Trump supporters A couple of thoughts on third party candidates. Firstly, a lot of the pollsters do two polls with the same group of voters, one a straight Biden v Trump and the other including third party candidates. Invariably Biden does slightly worse when the third parties are included. This doesn't necessarily contradict the above because there are other candidates apart from Kennedy, notably Cornel West who seems to be trying to appeal to progessives. The effect isn't huge, but it is definitely there. However, the other big factor with third party candidates is which states let them on the ballot paper and/or allow write-ins. Every state has its own rules for this. If a third party candidate makes it onto the ballot in a state that is basically safe for either Biden or Trump then their intervention is irrelevant. They can only have an impact in a swing "purple" states. Wikipedia helpfully is tracking this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_and_independent_candidates_for_the_2024_United_States_presidential_electionEven Kennedy, the highest profile, is only certified in 4 states so far, with petitions pending in 7. Of these some don't matter, but some do (Michigan, North Carolina, etc.)
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Apr 22, 2024 8:14:29 GMT
domjg That's of course true the original comment referred to demonstrations along the same lines in the canaries. As I pointed out the accommodation in the tourist resorts was built as tourist accommodation and the situation is different. If you envisaged a similar pattern of residency in the UK as Tenerife over 40 million people would live in greater London and the largest other town would have a population under 100,000. Yes, the Canaries are pretty much built around tourism as I understand it and have been for decades. I imagine if it weren't for mass tourism not many people would live there. I was just responding to mercian in isolation. I did happen to read an article a while back however saying that recently tourists are being lured by new holiday lets in areas that are outside of the resorts and were the domain of the locals in search of an 'authentic' local experience and that was causing problems with rent costs etc. If you want a 'local' experience in Spain the Canaries are probably not where to go to in the first place.
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