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Post by crossbat11 on Dec 20, 2023 16:36:27 GMT
johntel I see your man Cooper has gone at Forest. Nuno, the former Wolves and Spurs man, already appointed to replace him. Your thoughts? Yes, very sad to see Cooper go, he'd really brought the club back to life after so many years in the doldrums. The atmosphere at the City Ground in the last 2 years has been better even than in the Clough glory years. Cooper managed to generate a fantastic fighting team spirit - but somehow it hasn't worked with the recent expensive signings and there have even been fallings-out with the remaining local players. Our main goalscorer Awoniyi has been injured most of the time and selling Johnson too means that there's been very little attacking threat. My gut feeling is that it's probably the right decision to make the change at this point. Happy with Nuno, he looks to have a pretty good track record, and I'm sure the fans will give him a fair crack of the whip. Hopefully we'll get the same new manager bounce that Villa did :-) Our owner, Marinakis, is incredibly ambitious and is expecting rather than hoping to get Forest back into Europe. We shall see! You need to play the Villa every week!! Your win against us is your only one in the last 13 games and our defeat at the City Ground is our only reverse in the last 16 games we've played! Football has a habit of throwing up these results that defy the form book. Nuno fared well at Wolves where he assembled a squad of mainly Portuguese internationals acquired via the services of a sports agent called Jorge Mendes. It proved far too good a side for the Championship, as you'd expect, and prospered in the Premier League for a few seasons. He did less well at Tottenham though where his tenure was unsuccessful and short lived, although working for Levy can often be a thankless task. His appointment may work at Forest over time but I can't see him making the rapid transformation in fortunes that Emery has made at the Villa. He's added shrewdly to the squad, but he inherited some seriously talented footballers from Smith and Gerrard. Most of the current team are made up of players from that time, now performing to their full potential due to Emery's superb coaching and man-management. I think Nuno will need a fair bit of time at Forest, and money, to get the quality of players on board to make a real fist of it. I think he'll steer you well clear of trouble though. The current Bottom 3 look nailed on to go down for me.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 17:03:27 GMT
Now, for Sir Keir is it steady as you go, or does he decide the reassurance of the centre voter has gone far enough and he begins in the new year to set out a positive programme for how Britain will be better under Labour, after all an GE may only be 5 months away. Jury's out, but just possibly. I had a email from Wes Streeting (i.e. from some minion working for him) that reads slightly less like it was written by a right-wing management consultant. "Now to the plan - Labour will pull every available lever to get patients seen faster, including using spare capacity in the private sector. We will: Pay NHS staff extra to deliver 2 million more appointments and operations a year on evenings and weekends. Double the number of scanners, so patients with conditions like cancer are diagnosed earlier, giving them the best chance of survival. Provide 700,000 more urgent dental appointments and make sure everyone who needs an NHS dentist can get one. Our plan to cut waiting lists will cost £1.6 billion a year, paid for by abolishing the non-dom tax status; so that wealthy people who live and work in Britain pay their taxes here too. But we also need to reform the NHS and make it fit for the future. For the NHS to survive, it must provide better care for patients and better value for taxpayers. Labour will train thousands more doctors, nurses and midwives, and provide them with the latest technology, so patients get the best quality care. The NHS will become a Neighbourhood Health Service, with healthcare available on your doorstep and from the comfort of your own home. Labour will bring back the family doctor, so patients can easily book appointments to see the doctor they want, in the manner they choose - whether it’s face-to-face, over the phone, or online. Prevention is better than cure, so Labour will shift the focus from simply treating sickness to preventing it in the first place. Mental health should be treated as seriously as physical health, so we will recruit an extra 8,500 mental health professionals, paid for by abolishing tax loopholes for the wealthiest. The last Labour government delivered the shortest waits and highest patient satisfaction in history. We did it before and we can do it again. Labour will give Britain its NHS back." There are problems with this - for example the NHS already uses private capacity and while extra scanners would be nice, the real shortage is of people trained to operate them. Also far from clear how it will be paid for, since the non-dom thing is wholly inadequate. But it is not an awful list of priorities, so feeling very mild and provisional optimism.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 17:18:33 GMT
pjw1961 Given that more than half of new staff in the nhs came from overseas and the existing training facilities for nurses exceed the number of UK recruits I can't see how providing extra training spaces while persisting with the bollocks about restrictions on overseas staff and their families and absurd charges for these nhs staff to access nhs services will help much. But that's what comes from " making Brexit work " Attachment Deleted
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 20, 2023 17:26:30 GMT
He did less well at Tottenham though where his tenure was unsuccessful and short lived, although working for Levy can often be a thankless task. I think Nuno will need a fair bit of time at Forest, and money, to get the quality of players on board to make a real fist of it. I think he'll steer you well clear of trouble though. The current Bottom 3 look nailed on to go down for me. I've got a good deal of time for Nuno as well and I think that Forest will, just, stay up. We are, after all two games away from half-way through the season. What has surprised me is why Burnley have not done better than they have so far.
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Post by graham on Dec 20, 2023 17:31:18 GMT
This guy is ,though, wrong on more than one count - - it is not true to sayy that the seat has only gone Labour in strong Labour years. He appears to be unaware of the history of the seat and that it was Labour-held 1945 - 1959 and again 1964 - 1969.
- it is not certain at this stage that there will be a by election here. Were Sunak to opt for an election on May 2nd, Dissolution will have to take place in late March with the election announcement probably a week earlier. There would be little point in holding this by election in mid- February under such circumstances. It will be interesting whether the Tories do seek to move the writ in early January. failure to do so will invite MAy election speculation.
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Post by isa on Dec 20, 2023 17:36:25 GMT
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 18:32:25 GMT
pjw1961 Given that more than half of new staff in the nhs came from overseas and the existing training facilities for nurses exceed the number of UK recruits I can't see how providing extra training spaces while persisting with the bollocks about restrictions on overseas staff and their families and absurd charges for these nhs staff to access nhs services will help much. But that's what comes from " making Brexit work " View Attachment steve - it was the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition that axed nurse training places as one of the first big cuts of 2010 - an astonishing short-sighted decision that has subsequently cost far more money than it saved and contributed to the current staffing crisis by cutting off the domestic supply.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 18:45:46 GMT
Last local by-elections (tomorrow) until 11 January. Two should be easy Lib Dem holds, the other is more interesting;
ISLE OF WIGHT UA; Ventnor & St Lawrence (Con resigned) Candidates: BLAKE, Ed (Conservative) COOPER, Steve (Labour) HARRINGTON-VAIL, Ray (Liberal Democrat)
2021: Con 328; Vectis 260; Lab 249; Our Island 178; Island Ind Network 171; Freedom All 38
It will be seen that in 2021 the voting was Con 26.8% (winner), Lab 20.3%, assorted 'others' 52.9%. With only the three major English parties standing this time there are a lot of unaffiliated votes up for grabs. The publicly available MRPs are suggesting Labour are likely to win both Isle of Wight parliamentary seats - which I don't believe given that Labour have just one councillor out of 39 on the IoW Council and no history of strength here. If the MRPs are right then Labour should take this seat (they have even picked a locally credible candidate). But my gut feeling is it will go Lib Dem. We shall see.
LEICESTERSHIRE CC; Blaby & Glen Parva (Lib Dem resigned) Candidates: BADLAND, Laura (Labour) GRUNDY, Nigel (Conservative) JELFS, Mike (Green) JORDAN, Sue (Liberal Democrat)
2021: LD 1484; Con 1020; Lab 304; Grn 235
Should be simple Lib Dem hold.
BLABY DC; Glen Parva (Lib Dem resigned) Candidates: BADLAND, Laura (Labour) BLACKWELL, Shane (Conservative) JELFS, Mike (Green) SAVAGE, Ande (Liberal Democrat)
2023: LD 681, 658; Con 279; Ind 264
Again easy Lib Dem hold to be expected.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Dec 20, 2023 18:51:43 GMT
Now, for Sir Keir is it steady as you go, or does he decide the reassurance of the centre voter has gone far enough and he begins in the new year to set out a positive programme for how Britain will be better under Labour, after all an GE may only be 5 months away. Jury's out, but just possibly. I had a email from Wes Streeting (i.e. from some minion working for him) that reads slightly less like it was written by a right-wing management consultant. "Now to the plan - Labour will pull every available lever to get patients seen faster, including using spare capacity in the private sector. We will: Pay NHS staff extra to deliver 2 million more appointments and operations a year on evenings and weekends. Double the number of scanners, so patients with conditions like cancer are diagnosed earlier, giving them the best chance of survival. Provide 700,000 more urgent dental appointments and make sure everyone who needs an NHS dentist can get one. Our plan to cut waiting lists will cost £1.6 billion a year, paid for by abolishing the non-dom tax status; so that wealthy people who live and work in Britain pay their taxes here too. But we also need to reform the NHS and make it fit for the future. For the NHS to survive, it must provide better care for patients and better value for taxpayers. Labour will train thousands more doctors, nurses and midwives, and provide them with the latest technology, so patients get the best quality care. The NHS will become a Neighbourhood Health Service, with healthcare available on your doorstep and from the comfort of your own home. Labour will bring back the family doctor, so patients can easily book appointments to see the doctor they want, in the manner they choose - whether it’s face-to-face, over the phone, or online. Prevention is better than cure, so Labour will shift the focus from simply treating sickness to preventing it in the first place. Mental health should be treated as seriously as physical health, so we will recruit an extra 8,500 mental health professionals, paid for by abolishing tax loopholes for the wealthiest. The last Labour government delivered the shortest waits and highest patient satisfaction in history. We did it before and we can do it again. Labour will give Britain its NHS back." There are problems with this - for example the NHS already uses private capacity and while extra scanners would be nice, the real shortage is of people trained to operate them. Also far from clear how it will be paid for, since the non-dom thing is wholly inadequate. But it is not an awful list of priorities, so feeling very mild and provisional optimism. Your guarded welcome for this is appropriate. For many decades, I have considered such electioneering from every party with considerable scepticism - and my cynicism has largely been justified!
The minion's proposals seem OK - if NHS England has identified remedying a desperate shortage of scanners as the top priority for funding, for example. Have they?
Whether the minion knows that these proposals are only for England is unclear. If UKGE spends more on NHS England - without taking that funding from other England only services, then the Barnett formula will ensure that all the governments in the UK (not just "Britain") will have additional funding which they may well (as they normally do) spend on health matters. If it is simply a sleight of hand to transfer resources to NHS England, from within English spending, it will make no difference elsewhere.
However, I am pleased to see the proposal that "Labour will shift the focus from simply treating sickness to preventing it in the first place." Since the principle factor generating ill-health (mental as well as physical) is poverty - especially in early life - are we going to see policies like the Scottish Child Payment adopted across the UK? Has anyone asked Rachel Reeves?
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 18:57:26 GMT
pjw1961That is undoubtedly true however more than half those applying for nurse training since 2015 have now left the profession and over half of those qualifying in 2010 have now left. I fail to see the relevancy to the current shortages of an increase in training places by the start of 2025, even if recruits from the U.K. could be found not a single newly qualified nurse would graduate until June 2028 and not a single newly qualified doctor or dentist until June 2032. Continuing restrictions on European nurses and maintaining the visa restrictions and costs will utterly undermine any improvement.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 19:15:27 GMT
There are problems with this - for example the NHS already uses private capacity and while extra scanners would be nice, the real shortage is of people trained to operate them. Also far from clear how it will be paid for, since the non-dom thing is wholly inadequate. But it is not an awful list of priorities, so feeling very mild and provisional optimism. The minion's proposals seem OK - if NHS England has identified remedying a desperate shortage of scanners as the top priority for funding, for example. Have they?
As I alluded to above, the problem is not one of equipment but trained, specialist staff. This from Model Hospital data for example: "Benchmarking data published via the Model Hospital shows chronic shortages across all professions: average vacancy rates for clinical support workers are 4.6%, diagnostic radiographers 11%, sonographers 6.7% and medical physicists 9%." The problem is sufficiently acute to have even made the non-specialist press: www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/08/cancer-patients-delays-treatment-staff-shortage-uk-radiologists
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 19:18:29 GMT
pjw1961 That is undoubtedly true however more than half those applying for nurse training since 2015 have now left the profession and over half of those qualifying in 2010 have now left. I fail to see the relevancy to the current shortages of an increase in training places by the start of 2025, even if recruits from the U.K. could be found not a single newly qualified nurse would graduate until June 2028 and not a single newly qualified doctor or dentist until June 2032. Continuing restrictions on European nurses and maintaining the visa restrictions and costs will utterly undermine any improvement. You have to start training people sometime steve. I'm pro-immigration, but we don't want a health service that is solely dependent on stealing the rest of the world's staff. .
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 20:06:29 GMT
pjw1961No one's being forced to come here to work in the NHS they choose to, European union nurses certainly weren't being stolen away from their own often better paid health systems. If people choose to come here from poorer nations the fact that we don't make it easier won't prevent them choosing to go to a country that does. The NHS has never functioned without a huge number of overseas trained staff. There's no stealing involved.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 20:27:56 GMT
pjw1961 No one's being forced to come here to work in the NHS they choose to, European union nurses certainly weren't being stolen away from their own often better paid health systems. If people choose to come here from poorer nations the fact that we don't make it easier won't prevent them choosing to go to a country that does. The NHS has never functioned without a huge number of overseas trained staff. There's no stealing involved. You won't get an argument on the principle from me; in the hospital I work in half the doctors and maybe 35% of the nurses, as well as many other staff, are from overseas. However, when we recruited 225 very well qualified nurses from India back in 2019, by definition they stopped working in the Indian health service that had invested in training them. The UK does need to significantly increase the number of medical, nursing and allied health professional staff trained in the UK, as well as improve retention of those we have, if we are ever going to meet the huge vacancy issue. We can't survive on bringing people in from abroad alone.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Dec 20, 2023 20:29:14 GMT
The minion's proposals seem OK - if NHS England has identified remedying a desperate shortage of scanners as the top priority for funding, for example. Have they?
As I alluded to above, the problem is not one of equipment but trained, specialist staff. This from Model Hospital data for example: "Benchmarking data published via the Model Hospital shows chronic shortages across all professions: average vacancy rates for clinical support workers are 4.6%, diagnostic radiographers 11%, sonographers 6.7% and medical physicists 9%." The problem is sufficiently acute to have even made the non-specialist press: www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/08/cancer-patients-delays-treatment-staff-shortage-uk-radiologists I thought something like that would be the situation - so "doubling the number of scanners" should be much lower down the priority list - but the minion wants you to go out and spin a story to the voters - because s/he thinks it sounds good. I know that's just "normal politics" (ie misrepresentation and deception) and all parties do it - which is why I dislike all parties!
It will be interesting to see whether English Labour follows Welsh Labour by increasing "NHS" spending by cutting health improvement expenditure elsewhere. Not that that is necessarily a wrong tactic - with a £1.3billion black hole in the Welsh budget, they have to balance the books somehow, and they have eschewed increasing income tax.
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/how-welsh-governments-budget-2024-28318067
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Dec 20, 2023 20:34:38 GMT
You won't get an argument on the principle from me; in the hospital I work in half the doctors and maybe 35% of the nurses, as well as many other staff, are from overseas. However, when we recruited 225 very well qualified nurses from India back in 2019, by definition they stopped working in the Indian health service that had invested in training them. The UK does need to significantly increase the number of medical, nursing and allied health professional staff trained in the UK, as well as improve retention of those we have, if we are ever going to meet the huge vacancy issue. We can't survive on bringing people in from abroad alone. Very true. So you will approve of any government in the UK that didn't stop nursing bursaries in 2010, and increased training places for doctors, dentists, nurses and other health professionals - as well as avoiding the strikes over their pay that has so damaged health provision in England and Wales - and is about to do so in NI.
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Post by jib on Dec 20, 2023 20:35:12 GMT
pjw1961 No one's being forced to come here to work in the NHS they choose to, European union nurses certainly weren't being stolen away from their own often better paid health systems. If people choose to come here from poorer nations the fact that we don't make it easier won't prevent them choosing to go to a country that does. The NHS has never functioned without a huge number of overseas trained staff. There's no stealing involved. Who are you trying to kid. It's not exactly stealing, just cropping the best talent from all over the world. To be fair, the Australians do it to us too. But we don't train a "sustainable" number of medics. And the coalition you defend made things worse.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Dec 20, 2023 20:42:19 GMT
And the coalition you defend made things worse. While I normally just lurk on here now (but the weather outside is frightful), I don't remember steve ever "defend[ing] the coalition".
It's normally helpful when people avoid making things up.
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 20, 2023 20:44:38 GMT
Going back just over a year to when Sunak became PM, there has been remarkably little variation for both Labour and Conservatives. Labour's highest Red Wall polling was 55% on 19th February and lowest was 45% on 23rd September. Mostly they have polled around 48-52%. There is a hint of a slight softening of Labour's VI over the year, but no more than for the country as a whole. The Conservative VI has been 26-32% with many in the 27-29% range. It looks very much like people have made their minds up and are not going to change now. The big gainers are Reform UK who started off at around 5% and are now often polling just into double figures.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 20:54:21 GMT
"And the coalition you defend made things worse."
did the voices in your head tell you that? I've never defended the coalition I think it was a failure and even though I was a Labour party member and activist at the time I could see that the lib dems leadership sold out its supporters while getting nothing tangible in return, hence the 60% fall in their vote in 2015.
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 20:57:38 GMT
You won't get an argument on the principle from me; in the hospital I work in half the doctors and maybe 35% of the nurses, as well as many other staff, are from overseas. However, when we recruited 225 very well qualified nurses from India back in 2019, by definition they stopped working in the Indian health service that had invested in training them. The UK does need to significantly increase the number of medical, nursing and allied health professional staff trained in the UK, as well as improve retention of those we have, if we are ever going to meet the huge vacancy issue. We can't survive on bringing people in from abroad alone. Very true. So you will approve of any government in the UK that didn't stop nursing bursaries in 2010, and increased training places for doctors, dentists, nurses and other health professionals - as well as avoiding the strikes over their pay that has so damaged health provision in England and Wales - and is about to do so in NI.I'm more than happy to agree the Scottish government have handled the issues you mention much better than the Westminster government has in England. Mind you a pack of brain-dead rats might have done better than the Westminster government has in England.
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Post by jib on Dec 20, 2023 20:58:29 GMT
And the coalition you defend made things worse. While I normally just lurk on here now (but the weather outside is frightful), I don't remember steve ever "defend[ing] the coalition".
It's normally helpful when people avoid making things up.Defence through DENIAL is what I detest. I STAND by my accusation. I will never forgive the Lib Dems.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 20, 2023 21:22:23 GMT
While I normally just lurk on here now (but the weather outside is frightful), I don't remember steve ever "defend[ing] the coalition".
It's normally helpful when people avoid making things up. Defence through DENIAL is what I detest. I STAND by my accusation. I will never forgive the Lib Dems. You're bonkers
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 20, 2023 21:38:24 GMT
A strong point for devolution is different polities can make different choices and have different priorities
Wales and Scotland have made different choices with the NHS
The Scottish Government have raised the top tax rates, but freezing council tax has meant real terms cut
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Post by jib on Dec 20, 2023 21:38:46 GMT
did the voices in your head tell you that? Two sour peas from a very bitter pod.
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oldnat
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Post by oldnat on Dec 20, 2023 21:40:55 GMT
Very true. So you will approve of any government in the UK that didn't stop nursing bursaries in 2010, and increased training places for doctors, dentists, nurses and other health professionals - as well as avoiding the strikes over their pay that has so damaged health provision in England and Wales - and is about to do so in NI. I'm more than happy to agree the Scottish government have handled the issues you mention much better than the Westminster government has in England. Mind you a pack of brain-dead rats might have done better than the Westminster government has in England. The Westminster government was already made up of rats, whose brains were concentrated on scavenging the corpse that they had created, so perhaps if their brains had been dead ....
Of course, we don't know what a Labour controlled Downing St would have done over those years, so for those who claim that the Labour Party wouldn't have made similar choices to ScotGov, the only place to look for their actions in government is in Wales. So, in those aspects did Llafur do better?
Happy to accept that WalesGov made better choices than ScotGov did in some aspects of government. That's always a matter of priorities, and governing is about making choices between priorities - especially for devolved or local ones, where the critical fiscal decisions are made elsewhere.
Electioneering claims that any particular party is always "the best choice" are risible, as is blind loyalty to a party. Hopefully, English voters will kick out the corrupt freeloaders who currently run the UK, and Labour will be even mildly progressive on UK wide matters.
For Wales, Drakeford may be wise to be stepping down now. With his party in Downing St, WelshGov will be severely restrained by what Starmer thinks English voters will tolerate.
Scotland may not be the walkover for Labour that some commentators have been suggesting. There are lots of SNP/Lab marginals, and I wouldn't want to guess how they'll fall under the silly FPTP system, but the current YG Scots crossbreak average for the last month (15 Nov - 13 Dec : N=930 : change from 2019 in brackets) is -
SNP 37% (-8) : SGP 6% (+5) Lab 29% (+10) : LD 7% (-3) Con 16% (-9) : REFUK 3% (+3)
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 20, 2023 22:19:31 GMT
"I will never forgive the Lib Dems."
why haven't you mentioned this before😄
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pjw1961
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 20, 2023 22:23:24 GMT
I'm more than happy to agree the Scottish government have handled the issues you mention much better than the Westminster government has in England. Mind you a pack of brain-dead rats might have done better than the Westminster government has in England. The Westminster government was already made up of rats, whose brains were concentrated on scavenging the corpse that they had created, so perhaps if their brains had been dead ....
Of course, we don't know what a Labour controlled Downing St would have done over those years, so for those who claim that the Labour Party wouldn't have made similar choices to ScotGov, the only place to look for their actions in government is in Wales. So, in those aspects did Llafur do better?
Happy to accept that WalesGov made better choices than ScotGov did in some aspects of government. That's always a matter of priorities, and governing is about making choices between priorities - especially for devolved or local ones, where the critical fiscal decisions are made elsewhere.
Electioneering claims that any particular party is always "the best choice" are risible, as is blind loyalty to a party. Hopefully, English voters will kick out the corrupt freeloaders who currently run the UK, and Labour will be even mildly progressive on UK wide matters.
For Wales, Drakeford may be wise to be stepping down now. With his party in Downing St, WelshGov will be severely restrained by what Starmer thinks English voters will tolerate.
Scotland may not be the walkover for Labour that some commentators have been suggesting. There are lots of SNP/Lab marginals, and I wouldn't want to guess how they'll fall under the silly FPTP system, but the current YG Scots crossbreak average for the last month (15 Nov - 13 Dec : N=930 : change from 2019 in brackets) is -
SNP 37% (-8) : SGP 6% (+5) Lab 29% (+10) : LD 7% (-3) Con 16% (-9) : REFUK 3% (+3)As a point of context to the various decisions, it should be remembered that the Barnett formula is more favourable to Scotland than Wales.
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Post by alec on Dec 20, 2023 22:32:53 GMT
Well at least the BBC is covering this- www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-67754668It's a sad fact, but completely true. Those who rage against 'lockdowns', or indeed, any attempts to initiate sensible precautions against infection, fail to understand that by their own actions, they have consigned several hundred thousand of their fellow citizens to what is in effect, permanent lockdown. We've left so many people behind.
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domjg
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Post by domjg on Dec 20, 2023 22:47:39 GMT
did the voices in your head tell you that? Two sour peas from a very bitter pod. No as I'm not a Lib dem though I believe they will be an important weapon in helping to destroy this government. I'm just acknowledging odd behaviour.
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