steve
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Post by steve on Dec 6, 2023 11:51:14 GMT
Spaffer We got all the big calls right.
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c-a-r-f-r-e-w
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A step on the way toward the demise of the liberal elite? Or just a blip…
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Post by c-a-r-f-r-e-w on Dec 6, 2023 12:03:26 GMT
Funnily enough, I did something similar at Oxford, for example when I needed to get up to speed quickly on economics: go to a Labour friend doing PPE to ask about inflation, then take what he said and go to a Tory friend and ask what he thought of that and so on. In the end though, you have to see that it’s limited by who you are asking. The people Johnson had around him had not seen that the pandemic plan wasn’t really much of a plan, and weren’t necessarily equipped to handle it. Hancock writing reports at the Bank of England was hardly good prep, because it is way too fault-tolerant an activity. In the end BJ saw he needed to bring in people like Bingham, people who can actually handle complex activities as opposed to writing about them, but it needed to be earlier really and not just for the vaccines. Its not really Johnson's fault he was surrounded by ncompetents, if he was. We seem to agree his methodology as good, he seems to have arranged a september meeting on 'the rule of six', if Im getting this right. Get in six people with publicly known different positions and ask each of them what to do. This seems to have infuriated Whitty and Mclean who were the insider advisors. The state system currently pays for kids who are uncontrollable in state schools to be educated in private schools. Probably not eton, who probably wouldnt be interested anyway. But they do send kids to private schools not because the behaviour is better, but because the ability to control the kids is better, which of course results in better behaviour. Part of thats is smaller classes, smaller schools and much more staff attention per pupil. It inherent in teenagers to misbehave whether they are rich or poor. Oh dear...private school chappie talking about the techniques he learnt to get good information. Hardly an attack on incompetent elites but the exact opposite. Well it’s more like guy from a council estate school going on to boarding school, gradually realising the limitations and working out how to overcome them. (It wasn’t private school that did that or many of the others would have been doing it too). The system tended to condition people to follow the rules, and they tended to be proceduralists anyway who LIKED following the rules. They cheerfully followed rules that made no sense and there was eff all need for. It wasn’t trivial to break out of that, esp. when in your early teens, couped up in the open prison 24/7, eight months of the year. Re: Johnson, and the behaviour thing, shall reply later if that’s ok Danny? (The behaviour thing is non-trivial, at least for my noggin!)
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 6, 2023 12:14:16 GMT
Braverman to give a resignation speech, today, get the popcorn ready
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Post by leftieliberal on Dec 6, 2023 12:22:21 GMT
And don't get me started on Braveheart I think you could expand that to any Mel Gibson film.
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Post by wb61 on Dec 6, 2023 12:29:44 GMT
Agreed but I believe his best performance ever was in Twelve Angry MenI think you may be confusing him with Lee J Cobb, who was indeed excellent in Twelve Angry Men You are right; however both have played Juror 3. George C Scott played him in a 1997 remake (not as good as the Henry Fonda version but Scott carries off Juror 3 excellently). I think I have elided the two actors confusing them because I have seen both versions.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 6, 2023 12:45:37 GMT
And don't get me started on Braveheart I think you could expand that to any Mel Gibson film. "The Patriot" in particular.
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Dec 6, 2023 12:47:13 GMT
I believe one of the most historically accurate war films is Tora Tora Tora I understand both American and Japanese researchers were involved and the film portrays both sides not just one. Das Boot was also very realistic "A Bridge Too Far" is pretty accurate. Again, actual veterans of the operation were involved.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 6, 2023 12:49:35 GMT
I think you could expand that to any Mel Gibson film. "The Patriot" in particular. Mad Max was very unrealistic, it was supposed to be in a post apocalyptic future and there weren't even any Zombies 😀
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Post by Mark on Dec 6, 2023 13:02:36 GMT
Covid enquiry : How many times is Johnson going to answer with 'I don't remember' ??
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Dec 6, 2023 13:12:05 GMT
Quick correction to some of my previous comments where I've said someone (hopefully Wes given CON have just CONtinued the 'money pit' model) needs to be honest that the NHS in it's current form is unsustainable and that we need a "European" model. It is of course not just European countries that use a 'hybrid' model where the 'rich' can't access the 'free' (fully taxpayer funded) queue. However, I doubt LAB will want to say they are copying Singapore or Australia... So whilst it isn't really the 'European model' then still best to say copying 'Europe' IMO. In Wes we trust NB Nice to time of year to visit places like Singapore and Australia - sharp lad that Wes chap PS LAB seem to be going after the Torygraph voters but I prefer to check the info for my myself. Torygraph article below: Labour could rip up the health system – and patients will thank them for it Zealots will cry foul but the party seems open to delivering Bevan’s principles through other systems www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/02/labour-wes-streeting-rip-up-nhs-patients-thankful/As well as saying learning from Europe (rather than Singapore/Australia) then make sure to mention it is what Bevan or Attlee would do if they were alive (which conveniently they are not).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 13:54:52 GMT
Quick correction to some of my previous comments where I've said someone (hopefully Wes given CON have just CONtinued the 'money pit' model) needs to be honest that the NHS in it's current form is unsustainable and that we need a "European" model. It is of course not just European countries that use a 'hybrid' model where the 'rich' can't access the 'free' (fully taxpayer funded) queue. However, I doubt LAB will want to say they are copying Singapore or Australia... So whilst it isn't really the 'European model' then still best to say copying 'Europe' IMO. In Wes we trust NB Nice to time of year to visit places like Singapore and Australia - sharp lad that Wes chap PS LAB seem to be going after the Torygraph voters but I prefer to check the info for my myself. Torygraph article below: Labour could rip up the health system – and patients will thank them for it Zealots will cry foul but the party seems open to delivering Bevan’s principles through other systems www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/02/labour-wes-streeting-rip-up-nhs-patients-thankful/As well as saying learning from Europe (rather than Singapore/Australia) then make sure to mention it is what Bevan or Attlee would do if they were alive (which conveniently they are not). Well the Singapore model is no bad benchmark :- www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/singapore.phpSome caveats in a UK comparison-particularly the state of their Public Health systems. Still-yet another sign that in Reeves & Streeting, Starmer has two realists on the Team. Economic growth is going to be hard come by . I posted about some of the barriers yesterday. I see the Institute of Employment Studies is reported to have concluded that Furlough has "very likely" been a factor in the attitudes producing persistent absence from the post pandemic workforce ( worse than European countries on the whole). Borrowing headroom is severely constrained by Debt levels and Servicing costs. So I get the pretty clear impression that Reeves is focussed on supply side reform and facilitation to enable Private sector investment. A funding and provision model change in the monolithic NHS would be in the same vein. Its a biggy though, and even if one imagines Labour doing it have a Nixon in China factor-its fraught politically & socially. I tried to outline some of the international stuff which will be in KS's in tray , yesterday , and the performance of his top team-arguably Reeves & Streeting particularly ( maybe also Healey) is going to be critical for him. Is he a tinkerer / meddler -or a Team Leader ?
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Post by hireton on Dec 6, 2023 14:20:25 GMT
"Braverman to give a resignation speech, today, get the popcorn ready"
Of course, Braverman was sacked, she didn't resign. Does the resignation statement convention apply to sacked Ministers?
In any event, the Westminster chatter as reported by Hardman and others is that Sunak faces the choice over the "emergency" immigration legislation of either the Immigration Minister resigning if it doesn't disappply EHRC oversight or the resignation of the Attorney General ( and possibly the Justice Secretary) if it does.
Those who are discounting an early election may be underestimating the potential for the Tory Party to implode.
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Post by eotw on Dec 6, 2023 14:22:46 GMT
honest that the NHS in it's current form is unsustainable An argument by repetition (ABR; also known as ad nauseam or ad infinitum) is a fallacy by which the speaker uses the same word, phrase, story, or imagery repeatedly with the hopes that the repetition will lead to persua- sion.
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Dec 6, 2023 14:39:29 GMT
Well the Singapore model is no bad benchmark :- www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/singapore.phpSome caveats in a UK comparison-particularly the state of their Public Health systems. Still-yet another sign that in Reeves & Streeting, Starmer has two realists on the Team. Economic growth is going to be hard come by . I posted about some of the barriers yesterday. I see the Institute of Employment Studies is reported to have concluded that Furlough has "very likely" been a factor in the attitudes producing persistent absence from the post pandemic workforce ( worse than European countries on the whole). Borrowing headroom is severely constrained by Debt levels and Servicing costs. So I get the pretty clear impression that Reeves is focussed on supply side reform and facilitation to enable Private sector investment. A funding and provision model change in the monolithic NHS would be in the same vein. Its a biggy though, and even if one imagines Labour doing it have a Nixon in China factor-its fraught politically & socially. I tried to outline some of the international stuff which will be in KS's in tray , yesterday , and the performance of his top team-arguably Reeves & Streeting particularly ( maybe also Healey) is going to be critical for him. Is he a tinkerer / meddler -or a Team Leader ? SMogg made an interesting comment that would extend to many on LAB's front bench:
Jacob Rees-Mogg: Keir Starmer would be welcomed by the Tories with open armswww.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-jacob-rees-mogg-labour-tories-b2459245.htmlStarmer was overdoing it by bringing Thatcher into the mix as one thing Starmer is not is a 'conviction' politician. However, he does seem to want to say whatever he needs to say to get into #10 and with Reeves aware of the financial situation and unwilling to go 'tax+spend'; likes of Streeting open to radical reform where it is needed; and Cooper as Tory as Tory gets then with the LoC faction purged/silenced and a decent majority then I'm cautiously optimistic Starmer-LAB will do a lot of things that CON have shied away from and be CONtinue CON elsewhere. If Starmer-LAB want to do unpopular but necessary stuff then they should get that out of the way early in 1st term. He can obviously blame CON for the mess he inherited and say that has forced him to do what needs to be done - or at least give his PM status backing as a 'team leader' for the stuff that Streeting, Reeves, etc. need to do. We'll find out early on IMO but I don't think it is as politically or socially fraught as the alternative of continuing with tinkering (sticking plasters) until, like many countries in Europe and rWorld, folks decide they've had enough with tinkerers and are prepared to give nutters (from either/both ends of the spectrum) a go. PS I did enjoy reading your recent posts and discussion with shevii about the need to broaden the tax base (rather than increase tax rates). I'd pop 1p on VAT as well but Reeves has low hanging fruit to go after when she 'U-turns' and comes out with "we inherited an even bigger mess than we thought" to justify taxes on the income from wealth, etc. As well as a 'following wind' on immigration then inflation will very likely be tamed by the time she takes over so interest rates coming down will mean broad shoulders can carry broader taxes (IMO and hopefully in her opinion as well).
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Post by mark61 on Dec 6, 2023 14:40:28 GMT
Mr Johnson at the Covid inquiry, If you ever needed Proof that Covid can grievously damage memory you can find it here.
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Post by hireton on Dec 6, 2023 14:48:58 GMT
More on the increase in the MIR for UK spousal visas:
The UK Government has confirmed that the new MIR will apply to visa renewals. A spouse who came to the UK on a spouse visa could find themselves unable to stay when it comes up for renewal ( they last for 2 years and 9 months). So a couple who have one child would need to have a joint income of about £41,000 to enable the visa to be renewed.
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 6, 2023 14:54:54 GMT
"An argument by repetition (ABR; also known as ad nauseam or ad infinitum) is a fallacy by which the speaker uses the same word, phrase, story, or imagery repeatedly with the hopes that the repetition will lead to persua- sion."
" Make Brexit work" ?
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Post by hireton on Dec 6, 2023 15:03:16 GMT
Regarding Braverman's statement it can only be a personal statement as she did mot resign. There is no mention of "I was sacked" statements in Erskine & May that I can see.
The Speajer has to agree to a MP making a personal statement which normally only are made about personal conduct. The text has to be seen and approved by the Speaker in advance and the MP may not depart from the approved text ( resignation statements do not have to be sybmitted or cleared in advance).
I don't expect the opposition parties to question the Speaker's decision to allow a statement but there clearly seem to be questions about whether he should have.
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 6, 2023 15:07:07 GMT
Listening to her speech it was the usual racist rhetoric and vomit she has produced before Always blaming others while never looking at her own dismal performance
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2023 15:21:33 GMT
SMogg made an interesting comment that would extend to many on LAB's front bench:
Jacob Rees-Mogg: Keir Starmer would be welcomed by the Tories with open armswww.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-jacob-rees-mogg-labour-tories-b2459245.htmlStarmer was overdoing it by bringing Thatcher into the mix as one thing Starmer is not is a 'conviction' politician. However, he does seem to want to say whatever he needs to say to get into #10 and with Reeves aware of the financial situation and unwilling to go 'tax+spend'; likes of Streeting open to radical reform where it is needed; and Cooper as Tory as Tory gets then with the LoC faction purged/silenced and a decent majority then I'm cautiously optimistic Starmer-LAB will do a lot of things that CON have shied away from and be CONtinue CON elsewhere. If Starmer-LAB want to do unpopular but necessary stuff then they should get that out of the way early in 1st term. He can obviously blame CON for the mess he inherited and say that has forced him to do what needs to be done - or at least give his PM status backing as a 'team leader' for the stuff that Streeting, Reeves, etc. need to do. We'll find out early on IMO but I don't think it is as politically or socially fraught as the alternative of continuing with tinkering (sticking plasters) until, like many countries in Europe and rWorld, folks decide they've had enough with tinkerers and are prepared to give nutters (from either/both ends of the spectrum) a go. PS I did enjoy reading your recent posts and discussion with shevii about the need to broaden the tax base (rather than increase tax rates). I'd pop 1p on VAT as well but Reeves has low hanging fruit to go after when she 'U-turns' and comes out with "we inherited an even bigger mess than we thought" to justify taxes on the income from wealth, etc. As well as a 'following wind' on immigration then inflation will very likely be tamed by the time she takes over so interest rates coming down will mean broad shoulders can carry broader taxes (IMO and hopefully in her opinion as well). Yeah-I agree that KS was whistle blowing-and that JRS response just shows what a busted flush the top hatted one is. But we both detect an approach from Lab under Starmer which looks pretty pragmatic. As you say we will find out-hopefully early on. I agree with you in principle on tax-and I have a feeling that shevii may not be too disappointed with Reeves in due course on that score as she abandons pre-election tax pledges. I think immigration will continue to be a big issue. The ageing populations I referred to yesterday and the post pandemic "missing" workforce is forcing higher "legal " migration. Added to the never ending undocumented traffick. it has brought border controls back up across the continent. Governments have to get this difficult balance right-Adequate Workforce by Sustainable Immigration with adequate housing , health & public services in a society with well integrated new communities-and enough taxes to pay for it all. Not a success story to date really-If you press on regardless you end up like Sweden and Denmark fighting crime and disaffection -or bulldozing ghettos. If you ignore the problem screaming at you ,voters turn to different solutions like in Netherlands & Italy. How is Starmer going to ride this horse ? ps-here's another -all too predictable-crisis coming down the track:- www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67585902
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 6, 2023 15:30:02 GMT
When even Nick Ferrari doesn't believe Tory mayoral candidates excuse for her senior moment. We've all left things behind and had them returned Susan it takes a special kind of loon who assumes it's by the worst pickpocket in living memory. youtu.be/AibG-zcS0qU?si=BgXQrNeMG9HhKHjc
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neilj
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Post by neilj on Dec 6, 2023 15:34:12 GMT
These two tweets demonstrate very clearly just how divided the tory party are
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steve
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Post by steve on Dec 6, 2023 16:17:25 GMT
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Danny
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Post by Danny on Dec 6, 2023 16:37:42 GMT
Boris Johnson this morning was first faced with questions about his personal responsibility, where he seemed to say he was responsible for everything, and then he was asked whether the prime aim of the state was to preserve life. He said yes.
I thought that a particularly stupid answer, because of course the notional role of a government is to preserve the state, not the citizens. Although for many the main objective seems to be personal career advancement. But I suppose saying any of that might have been true, but did not fit the narrative being presented. In truth, it is a real question decided by every government how much to spend on health care and therefore preserving life, and how much to not spend on it. It is never the prime consideration to save lives above all else. Never.
Moving on, Johnson then proceeded to deny a whole lot of responsibility, which kinda made a nonsense of his earlier statements. Maybe the barrister was trying to set him up to look a fool with questions he would be unable to answer honestly. But broadly his narrative fits with that of Whitty and Mclean, and indeed Hancock. That the experts were working to this model of 800,000 deaths in one wave, but simultaneously were still doubtful if and when covid might arrive in the UK. Until they got certain steps confirmed, they were unwilling to press the panic button and demand action higher up the chain (though they were preparing for it). So they rather agree with what Johnson said, that although he had been alerted to the possibility things could become serious in Jan and Feb 2020, the official line was still dont panic yet. And so cabinet government seems to have continued largely untroubled, with primarily only the health secretary getting worried.
Johnson commented that a critical issue, as it was explained to him, was whether or not asymptomatic spread was possible. I fear that whatever part asymptomatic spread played, they all missed the point not about asymptomatic spread but spread of mild disease not bad enough to need to consult a doctor. They do not seem to acknowledge this even existed, perhaps because an implication of the very high early case fatality and hospitalisation estimates would be that there would be relatively few mild cases. All nations simply didnt recognise their people snuffling along with a cold or bit of flu, actually had covid. One of the consequences of labelling it as a fatal and very serious disease must have been that people with mild symptoms wouldnt even believe they had anything out of the ordinary. Thats after they even knew of the existence of covid, of course. And at this point the official line was that there was essentially no covid inside the UK.
And then suddenly officials detected spread of covid inside the UK. In retrospect, I dont see why anyone would be surprised it was suddenly discovered. The only people worrying about it would be those going abroad who got a cough. Well a cough we now know is not a very good symptom of even medium covid, where the signature symptom to distinguish it from usual cold or flu is loss of taste and smell. But that was then unknown. While resources for testing were very limited, so no one with a cold was going to be tested. What truly happened is exactly the same as happened in China, or Italy, or anywhere it just appeared. It had already been spreading amongst the young, who are the group transmitting it and not getting very ill. Only once it spread to the old did cases arrive in hospitals and eventually get detected.
At that point the panic button did get pressed, and it was panic because according to their predictions they would have had a lot more time while it grew in numbers. Only they totally missed that stage. They then over estimated its transmissability by using that to explain how there could be so many cases suddenly. Whereas we know it arrived in the Uk at least in Hastings in Nov 2019, and possibly other places too. Which fits the experts predictions on spead and why they got it wrong, because they simply didnt know it was here so early.
We were all looking for the wrong thing.
On borders, Johnson said the advice he got was that trying to close borders was pointless. At best it would gain a few days or weeks delay in the disease entering the country. He just explained countries which tried simply failed. And yet we are supposed to believe Australia, NZ, S Korea etc succeeded. That simply isnt credible, unless they had some hidden help, for example national immunity created by past waves of sars and mers. (which people may be aware quietly mysteriously disappeared just as a hige epidemic was feared. Although covid did cause a pretty big epidemic, like its cousins it failed to live up to predictions of mass death)
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Dec 6, 2023 16:40:33 GMT
Yeah-I agree that KS was whistle blowing-and that JRS response just shows what a busted flush the top hatted one is. But we both detect an approach from Lab under Starmer which looks pretty pragmatic. As you say we will find out-hopefully early on. I agree with you in principle on tax-and I have a feeling that shevii may not be too disappointed with Reeves in due course on that score as she abandons pre-election tax pledges. I think immigration will continue to be a big issue. The ageing populations I referred to yesterday and the post pandemic "missing" workforce is forcing higher "legal " migration. Added to the never ending undocumented traffick. it has brought border controls back up across the continent. Governments have to get this difficult balance right-Adequate Workforce by Sustainable Immigration with adequate housing , health & public services in a society with well integrated new communities-and enough taxes to pay for it all. Not a success story to date really-If you press on regardless you end up like Sweden and Denmark fighting crime and disaffection -or bulldozing ghettos. If you ignore the problem screaming at you ,voters turn to different solutions like in Netherlands & Italy. How is Starmer going to ride this horse ? ps-here's another -all too predictable-crisis coming down the track:- www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67585902 Sweden, along with Germany, adopted the 'let everyone in' approach a few years back so are reaping what they sowed. Denmark is IMO the example of how a country can avoid lurching to the Far-Right by adopting tight controls on immigration. Cooper was shadow H.Sec back in the days of the 'Controls on Immigration' mug and seems fully signed up to all the belated controls that CON are putting in place and whilst TBC then if/when CON do ever get a '3rd country scheme' running then she might well CONtinue with that. As for bulldozing ghettos then I've been to Stockholm but haven't been to Stockton . Something was lost in the translation of 'ghettos' and whilst we can see from population by constituency data that demographics are 'lumpy' then I doubt LAB will be restricting where people can live or adopting a 'racist' approach to targeting areas that do need some help. The four criteria (see below link) that Denmark uses seem a reasonable approach to identifying problem areas that need some help in 'Levelling Up' (but without any mention of race/ethnicity/etc) Misleading title but mid-way through, shortly after 'Until now' it mentions the criteria : www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/denmark-plans-to-limit-non-western-residents-in-disadvantaged-areasI covered the maths of 200,000 net immigration previously and areas where we need to reduce demand on healthcare; get British people taking British jobs; providing specific housing for 'essential-local' workers; reduce the power of the militant unions; etc. If the strikes were to end and the 'rich' removed from the 'free' queue then NHS waiting lists would come down pretty quick - which would help get more people back to work. We have added a huge number of nurses and doctors in recent years and will continue to do so but they do need to be on shift and not emigrate after they've been trained! No copyright on good ideas and IIRC then my 3 word slogan was 'Recruit, Retain, Return(ees)' so slightly different to 'Train, Retain, Reform' but below link covers the record number of staff and "shortfall of between 260,000 and 360,000 staff by 2036/37" is not a problem number when broken down to an annual increase (provided we Retain/Return the majority of the ones we do Train and adopt the necessary Reforms) www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/accessible-nhs-long-term-workforce-plan/PS Your BBC link comes back with "404 Page cannot be found" (same 'error' as the LAB link to Starmer's 10pledges ). If you let me the know the title then I'm sure I can find it (or get the gist of it) and then can go back to 'temporary closed' until some new event.
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Post by wb61 on Dec 6, 2023 16:49:54 GMT
Rwanda Bill published with the following declaration by the Home Secretary:
I am unable to make a statement that, in my view, the provisions of the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill are compatible with the Convention rights, but the Government nevertheless wishes the House to proceed with the Bill.
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Post by graham on Dec 6, 2023 16:51:16 GMT
Regarding Braverman's statement it can only be a personal statement as she did mot resign. There is no mention of "I was sacked" statements in Erskine & May that I can see. The Speajer has to agree to a MP making a personal statement which normally only are made about personal conduct. The text has to be seen and approved by the Speaker in advance and the MP may not depart from the approved text ( resignation statements do not have to be sybmitted or cleared in advance). I don't expect the opposition parties to question the Speaker's decision to allow a statement but there clearly seem to be questions about whether he should have. Norman Lamont made such a statement in 1993 following his removal from the Treasury by John Major.
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Post by wb61 on Dec 6, 2023 16:51:26 GMT
Clause 1 sub-clause 2 this Act gives effect to the judgement of Parliament that the Republic of Rwanda is a safe country.
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Post by wb61 on Dec 6, 2023 16:52:35 GMT
An interesting clause in respect of the treaty between UK and Rwanda
that any person removed to the Republic of Rwanda under the provisions of the Treaty (a “relocated individual”) will not be removed from Rwanda except to the United Kingdom;
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Mr Poppy
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Post by Mr Poppy on Dec 6, 2023 16:54:49 GMT
honest that the NHS in it's current form is unsustainableAn argument by repetition (ABR; also known as ad nauseam or ad infinitum) is a fallacy by which the speaker uses the same word, phrase, story, or imagery repeatedly with the hopes that the repetition will lead to persua- sion. Thank you for a reminder of why I shouldn't waste my time on UKPR2. Unfort I didn't have you on the full ignore list* but if you have a problem with Starmer-Streeting's comments then take it up with them (or vote for a party that instead views the NHS as a money pit that limps on with 'sticking plasters' rather than real reform) Keir Starmer warns ‘unsustainable’ NHS needs reform not just more moneywww.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-keir-starmer-unsustainable-money-b2342677.html* A mistake I've now rectified so don't bother to waste your time replying to me again.
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