domjg
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Post by domjg on Jul 15, 2023 20:48:43 GMT
Why would an activist be deliberately rude or offensive to ANY voter during an election campaign ? Don't really get it. Well there are quite a few voters who are rude and offensive to political campaigners, of any party, and it's only human nature to respond in kind. I have to admit if a tory candidate knocked on my door they would definitely be sent away with quite the flea in their ear. Hopefully the EU stars in the corner of the front window and on the back of the car would give them pause before knocking. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 15, 2023 20:50:50 GMT
Why would an activist be deliberately rude or offensive to ANY voter during an election campaign ? Don't really get it. Well there are quite a few voters who are rude and offensive to political campaigners, of any party, and it's only human nature to respond in kind. Best not to though. The most I might say is "I can tell you won't be voting for us," in a wry tone and make a swift departure. There is zero value to arguing with political opponents - a waste of good canvassing time. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,614
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 15, 2023 20:53:13 GMT
Well there are quite a few voters who are rude and offensive to political campaigners, of any party, and it's only human nature to respond in kind. I have to admit if a tory candidate knocked on my door they would definitely be sent away with quite the flea in their ear. Hopefully the EU stars in the corner of the front window and on the back of the car would give them pause before knocking. Tactically the best thing to do is engage them in a long and rambling conversation - stops them speaking to other people. I had a good chat with one of the Tory candidates for Braintree South in May - he went on to lose, although I am not claiming the credit!  |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,614
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 15, 2023 21:13:42 GMT
This is a curious argument we are having, if argument it be. I know you take global heating seriously and we are two of the gloomier people on this site about the likelihood of anything serious being done about it. I agree things are bad now, but that doesn't mean they can't get worse. Not to me-and of course it will get worse. I'll try and explain it briefly. I get pissed off with all the hyperventilated angst about "climate change" by people who never seem to acknowledge that our species has already destroyed and continues to destroy so much of the earth's biodiversity. Never seem to comment on the selfish destruction of rain forests , wetlands , natural habitat of every description in order to grow our food , build our cities and enable our lives of never ending consumption of unnecessary stuff. Never talk about the pollution of our oceans and seas and the very mountain tops with plastic . Never talk about the shit heaps of our detritus which despoil the planet , to the beaches of the remotest island on earth. Never acknowledge that we are in such numbers on this planet now that we cannot feed ourselves already. And yet get oh so upset about the prospect of all this plunder and exploitation being compromised because we did all this. I don't really disagree with that. It didn't even start with agriculture or industrialisation, although those have speeded things up. When humans arrived in Australia 40,000 years ago is was largely covered in forest, had an enormous sea-sized lake in the middle of it and was swarming with mega-fauna such as huge lizards and giant marsupials. The newly arrived humans brunt down most of the forests as part of their hunting practices and turned the interior of the continent into desert with devastating effect. Same in the Americas. Humans arrive c18,000 years ago and mass extinctions of much of the mega-fauna quickly followed, ironically including the horse, which evolved in North America, crossed the land bridge into Asia, got domesticated and ended up being reintroduced into its original homeland by Europeans millennia later. The same pattern repeats wherever humans go - New Zealand, Madagascar, Cyprus (which used to have cute little miniature elephants and hippos, until people arrived). However, the logic of your position is that the planet would be better off if humans just snuffed it. That might well be true, but it could also be true that humans could learn to moderate our ridiculous population growth and recognise that we are part of nature and if we insist on killing it, we will die too. IMO it does mean that the current version of profit-driven capitalism has to go - to take a topical example, we shouldn't be mining the seabed and destroying yet another ecosystem in pursuit of profit. A form of egalitarian green-socialism is the only viable survival strategy (for a much smaller number of humans). You should join up comrade colin . |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 21:24:45 GMT
Well, if you imagine @jenny as a Labour canvasser I think it’s not difficult to also imagine a bit of gratuitous offence being handed out if someone told her that they were probably going to vote Conservative. jen is definitely not Labour from her comments. Pro-Scottish independence, but I has never claimed any party affiliation I am aware of. I know this!!! Which is why, in my fictional tale, I used the word “imagine”. However, as ole Graham has helpfully reminded us he fits the bill just as well. |
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Post by alec on Jul 15, 2023 21:27:03 GMT
Great stuff here - /photo/1
It's from a southern US burger chain, announcing the banning of face masks from all staff unless they have a medical certificate. The weird thing is, if you read it in full, it says that "patty room associates" - the workers who prepare the burgers in the food prep area - should be wearing masks, for food hygiene reasons presumably, but they are preventing staff from protecting themselves against covid.
This is all part of the developing war against anyone who refuses to succumb to the 'infection is inevitable' mantra. Whether it's banning WFH, masking at work, or confiscating CO2 monitors from schoolchildren, the majority in society is actively persecuting those unwilling to be subjected to repeat infection.
And this, on the day that the US Health Department started a public information campaign warning people that the risks of complications from covid increase with each reinfection.
What a bizarre world we're living in.
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Post by leftieliberal on Jul 15, 2023 22:01:06 GMT
Met Police again showing lack of care in data security: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/15/revealed-metropolitan-police-shared-sensitive-data-about-victims-with-facebookRevealed: Metropolitan police shared sensitive data about crime victims with Facebook Britain’s biggest police force gathered sensitive data about people using its website to report sexual offences, domestic abuse and other crimes and shared it with Facebook for targeted advertising, the Observer has found.The data was collected by a tracking tool embedded in the website of the Metropolitan police and included records of browsing activity about people using a “secure” online form for victims and witnesses to report offences.You just wouldn't believe it if it had been presented in a fictional context. |
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Post by mercian on Jul 15, 2023 22:17:40 GMT
Ah -I misunderstood. I had assumed that the edict was in respect of gratuitous offence to a voter -not response to something said by a voter. Well, if you imagine @jenny as a Labour canvasser I think it’s not difficult to also imagine a bit of gratuitous offence being handed out if someone told her that they were probably going to vote Conservative. I take offence on behalf of my dear friend jen because you called her jenny. 🤬 |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,614
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 15, 2023 22:18:50 GMT
jen is definitely not Labour from her comments. Pro-Scottish independence, but I has never claimed any party affiliation I am aware of. I know this!!! Which is why, in my fictional tale, I used the word “imagine”. However, as ole Graham has helpfully reminded us he fits the bill just as well. What with imagining Nadine Dorries is really clever the other day, you have a very vivid imagination FM! |
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Post by mercian on Jul 15, 2023 22:22:47 GMT
Well there are quite a few voters who are rude and offensive to political campaigners, of any party, and it's only human nature to respond in kind. I have to admit if a tory candidate knocked on my door they would definitely be sent away with quite the flea in their ear. Hopefully the EU stars in the corner of the front window and on the back of the car would give them pause before knocking. Why? The Tory government at the time of the referendum were in favour of Remain. A later Tory government simply implemented the will of the people. I've covered up the unwanted EU stars on my number plate with stickers that say ENG. Available on Amazon. 😃 |
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Post by mercian on Jul 15, 2023 22:24:48 GMT
Well there are quite a few voters who are rude and offensive to political campaigners, of any party, and it's only human nature to respond in kind. Best not to though. The most I might say is "I can tell you won't be voting for us," in a wry tone and make a swift departure. There is zero value to arguing with political opponents - a waste of good canvassing time. That's why if I can restrain my temper I usually try to engage Labour canvassers in long meandering conversations about policy. Most of them are wise to it though. 😁 |
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Post by mercian on Jul 15, 2023 22:29:53 GMT
A form of egalitarian green-socialism is the only viable survival strategy (for a much smaller number of humans). You should join up comrade colin . I have some sympathy with your position, but could I ask how you envisage the transition to a much smaller number of humans could happen? I suppose nuclear war would do it, but that wouldn't be too good for the environment either. |
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Post by mercian on Jul 15, 2023 22:41:15 GMT
This is all part of the developing war against anyone who refuses to succumb to the 'infection is inevitable' mantra. Whether it's banning WFH, masking at work, or confiscating CO2 monitors from schoolchildren, the majority in society is actively persecuting those unwilling to be subjected to repeat infection. And this, on the day that the US Health Department started a public information campaign warning people that the risks of complications from covid increase with each reinfection. What a bizarre world we're living in. You mean that people have views that differ, and that not all of them agree with you? Bizarre indeed. |
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pjw1961
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Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Posts: 8,614
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Post by pjw1961 on Jul 15, 2023 22:46:45 GMT
A form of egalitarian green-socialism is the only viable survival strategy (for a much smaller number of humans). You should join up comrade colin . I have some sympathy with your position, but could I ask how you envisage the transition to a much smaller number of humans could happen? I suppose nuclear war would do it, but that wouldn't be too good for the environment either. The way it is most likely to happen in the next century is a mix of conventional wars, mass starvation and the spread of disease through weakened and vulnerable populations. This will not be pleasant. Nuclear war would be far worse (but unlikely IMO). The better way is via population control, and I don't think this needs draconian government action on the past Chinese model. There is a ton of evidence that if women have the freedom to choose and have ready access to contraception and abortion they naturally choose to have smaller families. Other posters have mentioned education, and I 100% agree that access to education for girls is vital, but even in the absence of this women who are not under male control still choose to have fewer children. Therefore the key is the rejection and defeat of the doctrines of religious and political systems that advocate the suppression of women, their subjugation to men and are anti-contraception and abortion. This includes, but is not limited to, the Roman Catholic Church, Evangelical Protestants, fundamentalist Islam and Judaism and their various political offshoots. Ideally, these ideologies will either change their approach to join the real world or lose support and wither away. A pro-contraception Pope would be a good start. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 22:55:43 GMT
I know this!!! Which is why, in my fictional tale, I used the word “imagine”. However, as ole Graham has helpfully reminded us he fits the bill just as well. What with imagining Nadine Dorries is really clever the other day, you have a very vivid imagination FM! Indeed. I recently imagined that I’d enjoy chatting to ole Trev. |
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domjg
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Posts: 5,149
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Post by domjg on Jul 15, 2023 23:25:50 GMT
I have to admit if a tory candidate knocked on my door they would definitely be sent away with quite the flea in their ear. Hopefully the EU stars in the corner of the front window and on the back of the car would give them pause before knocking. Why? The Tory government at the time of the referendum were in favour of Remain. A later Tory government simply implemented the will of the people. I've covered up the unwanted EU stars on my number plate with stickers that say ENG. Available on Amazon. 😃 Did you really just use the phrase 'will of the people' and without irony? Re the numberplate what a petty waste of effort for something no-one will notice anyway. |
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steve
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Posts: 12,748
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 6:33:05 GMT
Election Maps UK @electionmapsuk · 15h Nowcast Model + Interactive Map (15/07): LAB: 422 (+220) - 45.6% CON: 142 (-223) - 27.3% LDM: 38 (+27) - 10.6% SNP: 24 (-24) - 3.3% PLC: 4 (=) - 0.5% GRN: 1 (=) - 5.3% RFM: 0 (=) - 6.0% Others: 0 (=) - 1.5% LAB Majority of 194. Changes w/ GE2019. electionmaps.uk/nowcastAs it stands at the moment a plausible outcome '97 on steroids however not quite the catastrophic loss necessary to consign the Tory party to the dustbin of politics for a long overdue trip to the landfill of ineptitude. |
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 6:39:29 GMT
mercianA cut out and keep turd emoji would also work.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 6:43:23 GMT
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Post by alec on Jul 16, 2023 6:46:14 GMT
mercian - "You mean that people have views that differ, and that not all of them agree with you?" It's nothing to do with that - that's a peculiarly stupid take. It's about denying people choice. I would have thought that you, of all people, would have been outraged that private and state organisations are enforcing their views on individuals, on a matter so personal as individual health protection?
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 6:51:19 GMT
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Post by alec on Jul 16, 2023 6:52:53 GMT
This week, we have forecasts of record breaking temperatures in southern and Central Europe, China and many parts of southern Asia, and the south west of the USA.
And some people here think Just Stop Oil protestors have lost touch with reality.
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steve
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Posts: 12,748
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 6:59:01 GMT
alecI think they're entirely right in their message but their actions divert attention from the message to the messenger. It's not remotely productive.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 7:03:43 GMT
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 7:10:13 GMT
Interesting approach from the Tories in Selby.
Their propaganda doesn't mention the conservatives, is often printed in green and has been formatted as if it's actually a local free newspaper.
It does however feature Sunakered prominently because for some bizarre reason the local Tories think he's an electoral asset.
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steve
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Post by steve on Jul 16, 2023 7:20:46 GMT
In regime racist stupidity news.
"The criticism comes after Rishi Sunak announced last week that a 5 to 7% pay rise for the public sector – including doctors and teachers – would be part-funded by hiking fees paid by migrants to live and work in the UK. Under the plans, the normal cost of the immigration health surcharge – the levy that many migrants are required to pay before submitting a visa application – will rise from £624 to £1,035 a year for each person, a 417% increase compared with five years ago. The fee for international students and children will rise from £470 to £776 a year.
With migrants required to pay the surcharge up front, the increase means a person coming for five years will face paying £5,175 in health fees alone. Visa fees will also rise by 15% for work and visit visas, and “at least 20%” for study visas, certificates of sponsorship and leave to remain, the government said. The total cost for a family of four moving to the UK will be “at least £33,000”, before legal and relocation costs, according to leading immigration barrister Colin Yeo.
That should get much needed workers flocking here.
To get things in perspective until national village idiot take over day , the up front administrative costs for a family of four relocating from the UK to other European union nation were £0
The upfront costs now for a family of four moving from brexitania to Spain are around £450, of course they have to have an income three times that necessary as European union citizens and pay for their own private healthcare , but no one said Brexshit was a good idea.
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Post by barbara on Jul 16, 2023 7:23:14 GMT
That looks like a perfect opportunity for more contracting out to the private sector ...
I remember when Local Education Authorities used to have teams of Education Welfare Officers, their job was to visit the homes of children not attending school and bring them in. They also worked directly with the family to try to tackle the underlying issues causing repeated absences. However this was seen as red tape and phased out as the money was coming from the LEA budget not the school budget. I'm just catching up so apologies if someone has already said this. But that's not what happened. As each individual school applied to become an academy, the government removed a percentage of funding from local authorities for all kinds of services, attendance, school psychology, special educational needs, HR, finance etc etc and transferred it to the school's individual budget. As more and more schools transferred to academy status this left the local authority with insufficient funding to provide the remaining LA schools with a decent service and they in turn reluctantly realised that academy status was the only game in town. Academies are of course at liberty to use the funding as they wish, it was not ringfenced. The enormous increases in headteacher salaries, and the growth of management and infrastructure services within academies are not unconnected as are the well documented cases of 'friends' and relatives of academy founders getting contracts to provide these services. Not all academies or academy chains behave in this way and some prioritise providing services to vulnerable children and attendance issues but the system is open to abuse/redirection. |
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Mr Poppy
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Teaching assistant and now your elected PM
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Post by Mr Poppy on Jul 16, 2023 7:30:59 GMT
While the boundary changes generally favour the Conservatives, there are a small number of Conservatives left without a seat, and Wallace is one of them. He would have to dislodge another sitting MP (as Braverman has done), fight a difficult marginal, or move to a different part of the country. This is likely to have informed his decision to stand down. ?!?! You're obviously entitled to your own 'theories' but see: "With his impeccable pedigree.. he could have had the pick of the plum Conservative seats becoming vacant at the next election."news.sky.com/story/why-ben-wallaces-days-were-numbered-12921610He would have been the shoo-in candidate in any of the dozens of seats he could have chosen from. Whilst many MPs do live in/near their constituency, it is not a 'requirement'. The number of seats in England is going to increase (favouring parties that do well in England) and happy to accept he probably wouldn't have wanted to move back to Scotland (where he started his political career but where seat numbers are being reduced - which will disfavour SNP) |
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Post by pete on Jul 16, 2023 7:45:06 GMT
Even better if you're an entrepreneur and own the workshop/factory and are self-employed. In case people think that is a dodgy source, try: morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/labour-fables-sir-keir-visits-the-prolesHis family also ran a donkey farm and with the purge of Corbyn+co then it appears he wants nowt to do with donkeys anymore 
Keir Starmer sells 'donkey sanctuary' field in Surrey for around £400,000
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-sells-donkey-sanctuary-28757467He's flipped at least one property in recent years as well, although failed to fill in the tax forms correctly (to which the sock puppets will say he intentionally wanted to pay more tax than he should have or stated the 'net' rather than 'gross' capital gain) Also I note from wiki: "He was the second of the four children". In case anyone was doubting he is from a 'New Right' family I don't think any of the above is something Starmer should be ashamed off but I'm not surprised the ABStarmer types find it vexing when Starmer puts on the 'I came from a poor background and had it tough as a lad' performance to pretend he is 'one of the people' 🤮 NB I appreciate that if I have to explain a joke then it's not funny. However, Starmer is the son of someone who made tools.. Starmer being a... Can't seem to find how many people Rodney Starmer employed or his factories address? Pretty sure the donkey sanctuary was brought for his ill mum later on when Keir was obviously moving up the ladder? While not out and out your normal working-class background he certainly isn't a toff and if his dad in the early days struggled would definitely be classed as working-class moving into lower middle class as things improved...so all in all, feck all to see here. |
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Post by barbara on Jul 16, 2023 7:47:59 GMT
I remember when Local Education Authorities used to have teams of Education Welfare Officers, their job was to visit the homes of children not attending school and bring them in. They also worked directly with the family to try to tackle the underlying issues causing repeated absences. However this was seen as red tape and phased out as the money was coming from the LEA budget not the school budget. I'm just catching up so apologies if someone has already said this. But that's not what happened. As each individual school applied to become an academy, the government removed a percentage of funding from local authorities for all kinds of services, attendance, school psychology, special educational needs, HR, finance etc etc and transferred it to the school's individual budget. As more and more schools transferred to academy status this left the local authority with insufficient funding to provide the remaining LA schools with a decent service and they in turn reluctantly realised that academy status was the only game in town. Academies are of course at liberty to use the funding as they wish, it was not ringfenced. The enormous increases in headteacher salaries, and the growth of management and infrastructure services within academies are not unconnected as are the well documented cases of 'friends' and relatives of academy founders getting contracts to provide these services. Not all academies or academy chains behave in this way and some prioritise providing services to vulnerable children and attendance issues but the system is open to abuse/redirection. Furthermore, the inefficient use of infrastructure resources for each individual academy soon became apparent and so the evolution of academy chains developed. These chains run all the central and infrastructure, curriculum and standards stuff centrally for all their schools. They provide support, run training etc and employ an 'Executive Headteacher' on c£250k. Some have as many academies as an old LEA might have had. So the system has replicated the LA except these bodies are not publicly accountable for their public funded finances through elections and some people make lots of profit from the provision of these services to their schools. (They top slice school budgets). Bit like the sell off of council housing. Originally providing a means of home ownership for families who couldn't otherwise afford it, they have now been bought up by large scale landlord companies who rent them out at high rates to families and have no obligation to maintain their properties beyond the legal minimum. This situation also drives up rents and subsequently property prices. And the water industry, now owned mainly by foreign governments and conglomerates with no sense of obligation to their customers other than bleeding them dry (sic) for the benefit of their shareholders. These decisions by successive Tory governments show either a woeful lack of understanding of how the market works or a clever approach to transferring public assets and wealth to their mates and donors. |
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